Apple's iPhone top choice to buy, survey shows

George Graves <[email protected]> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> George Graves <[email protected]> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> George Graves <[email protected]> wrote
>>>>> Michelle Steiner wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote

>>>>>>>>>> OK, exactly what are iTunes' failings?

>>>>>>>>> Its not very intuitive when loading the ipod with mp3
>>>>>>>>> you already have on the computer for example.

>>>>>>>> Explain, please.

>>>>>>> I already did. Its much more intuitive for the ipod to appear
>>>>>>> as a drive and to use the normal file manager interface you
>>>>>>> are already used to than a special purpose app.

>>>>>> No it isn't.

>>>>>>>>> And what applications do those things better?

>>>>>>>>> Its rather more intuitive to just drag and drop those mp3s
>>>>>>>>> etc you already have to a drive which is the media player.

>>>>>>>> That's one option you have with iTunes.

>>>>>>> Not with the file manager you use for everything else.

>>>>>> And that file manager can't play music. Let's see, with your
>>>>>> preferred method, you use one application to download music,
>>>>>> another to play it, another to copy it to the iPod, and another
>>>>>> to burn it to CDs. I, on the other hand, use iTunes for all of
>>>>>> those functions in one easy to use, intuitive, integrated application.

>>>>> I think we've found ourselves another cross-posting Apple hater Michelle.

>>>> Not a shred of evidence that you are actually capable of thought.

>>> Ah, so now we degenerate into name calling.

>> Nope, you did. No name calling there, except by you.

> Where did I call you a name?

Even you should be able to find 'another cross-posting Apple hater' above.

> I said that you seemed to be an Apple hater (from your posts)

Pity there isnt a shred of apple hate in any of my posts.

> but that's hardly personal rancor.

Its clearly name calling.

>>>> So stupid it cant even work out that I didnt crosspost, I
>>>> just left the original crossposting in place, just like you did.

>>> I didn't look, sorry about that, but why the personal rancor?

>> Might just have been triggered by your juvenile name calling.

> Again, what name calling?

See above.

> I have called you by no name.

Bare faced lie.

>>>>> Apple's way is no good because it's ...well....Apples way.

>>>> Wrong again. Its just much more intuitive for a device to
>>>> showup as just another drive, and be able to use the device
>>>> just like any other device when loading and unloading it.

>>> That's a matter of opinion, don't you think?

>> Nope. Matter of fact that allowing BOTH types of access is by definition
>> more intuitive than a single special purpose app for access to the device.

>>> Anyway, its not mine.

>> Your problem.

> Not a problem, just a different opinion.

It your problem that your opinion differs.

>>> There are things that I would change in iTunes, sure, but overall,
>>> its the best integrated app of its kind that I've seen so far.

>> You need to get out more.

>> And treating the device as a drive is much more intuitive than any app can be.

> I disagree

Your problem.

>>>> Sure, include a dedicated app for the stupids who dont even
>>>> know what a drive is, but let those who do know what a drive
>>>> is deal with the device just like any other drive if they want to.

>>> You can do that with an iPod is you wish.

>> Not easily by just plugging the iPod in and using it as a drive you cant.

>>> See Apple gives you the choice. But believe me,
>>> its a lot harder without iTunes than it is with it.

>> No it isnt when its properly implemented as a drive.

> I'm sorry, all things considered, I simply don't see it.

Your problem.

>>>>> Any other way is better because it's ... well, ... not Apple's way.

>>>> Just another mindless Apple bigot.

>>> Seems to be the attitude that you are projecting in this thread.

>> Then you need to get your seems machinery seen to.

>>>> Even someone as stupid as you

>>> Again, why the personal rancor?

>> Again, might just have been triggered by your juvenile name calling.

> I called you no name.

Bare faced lie. You called me another cross-posting Apple hater.

>>> I've not called you any names have I?

>> Corse you did, you called me 'another cross-posting Apple hater'

> I "CHARACTERIZED" you as 'another cross posting Apple hater', I didn't call you one.

Pathetic.

> Even so, responding by calling me stupid,

Never did.

> bigoted,

Or that.

> incapable of thought

Or that.

> is hardly the same as characterizing someone as having a certain opinion (Apple hater)

Just another of your silly little fantasys.

> based upon their own words.

Just like with your stupidity and incapability of thought. Funny that.

>>>> should be able to have a look at my posting history and see that
>>>> I hardly ever make any comment about Apple, and that when I
>>>> do, I have said that the ipod particularly is a very decent
>>>> product, albeit with some real downsides with iTunes particularly.

>>> Frankly, up until a few days ago, I don't remember seeing your name at all.

>> Irrelevant to my history in groups you dont read.

> But relevant enough when you call me stupid
> because I haven't checked your posting history.

Never ever did that, liar.

>>>> Its not a particularly intuitive app, even if you ignore the
>>>> fact that you cant treat the ipod as just another drive.

>> Try getting something out of an ipod and
>> putting it in another media player for starters.

> I can do it for stuff that I've ripped from my own CD collection,
> not from stuff bought from Apple's Music Store.

And you cant get stuff from somone else's ipod into your own very easily either.

>>>>>>>>>>>> But the iPod has the best UI of any portable
>>>>>>>>>>>> media player extant--until Friday, that is.

>>>>>> Right here, we're talking about the iPod

>>>>>>>>>>> Nope, plenty of cellphones leave it for dead, essentially
>>>>>>>>>>> because they integrate the media player with other capability.

>>>>>> Gee, right here, you're changing it to cell phones.

>>>>>>>>>> The iPod isn't a cell phone; how can you compare the two?

>>>>>>>>> Those others combined those functions long before the iphone
>>>>>>>>> ever showed up.

>>>>>> And here you're talking about cell phones
>>>>>> again, still in response to the iPod interface.

>>>>>>>> Huh? We were talking about the iPod.

>>>>>>> Nope, we're talking about media players.

>>>>>> And now, you're talking about media players.

>>>>>>> Nope, we're talking about media players.

>>>>>>>> But even though they did those functions before the iPhone ever
>>>>>>>> showed up doesn't mean that they do it better than the iPhone.

>>>>>>> They do anyway when the device is just another drive visible on the computer.

>>>>>>>> Heck, Verizon's phones don't do it at all--you can't download
>>>>>>>> music from the computer to the phone, period.

>>>>>>> Irrelevant to what hordes of phones can do in that regard.

>>>>>> But we were talking about one of the reasons I'm planning to switch from Verizon.

>>>>>>>> Apple did it with their very first phone; you can't get any faster than that.

>>>>>>> Corse you can, you dont have to lag the rest of the market so dismally.

>>>>>> Oh, so you're saying that Apple should have produced a cell phone years ago?

>>>>>>>> I see; all those other MP3 players that were on the market
>>>>>>>> before the iPod made no impression on them?

>>>>>>> Those that were suckers for the ipod, no they didnt.

>>>>>> 70% of those who have bought MP3 players are suckers?

>>>>>>>> And then when the iPod came out, they started screaming at
>>>>>>>> Apple to make it work with Windows (which the iPod originally
>>>>>>>> didn't do) because it was, by God, an *Apple*, whose computers
>>>>>>>> they refused to buy.

>>>>>>> Nope, they ignored them until they could be used with what they had.

>>>>>> If they hadn't shown an interest in wanting an iPod, Apple
>>>>>> wouldn't have made the iPod compatible with Windows in the first
>>>>>> place. But even if you're right, that means that people who had
>>>>>> avoided both
>>>>>> Apple and MP3 players in droves suddenly swarmed to get iPods
>>>>>> because Apple made the iPod available for Windows? Do you
>>>>>> realize how senseless your thesis is?

>>>>>> I'll tell you one thing, though; if the iPhone won't do voice
>>>>>> dialing and if it won't upload its address book to my car (which
>>>>>> has Bluetooth capability for cell phones), I won't buy one. If
>>>>>> it does one, but not the other, I'll have to decide.

>>>>> It won't surprise me if it doesn't do one or the other.

>>>> Me neither, and when so many of its competitive products do
>>>> both, AND allow the device to be used just like any other drive...

>>>>> Rarely do I buy a technology product (or even a computer application) that will
>>>>> do everything I would put in it had I designed it. I suspect we're all that way

>>>> Pity that the functionality she wants is there in the competitive
>>>> products. With a real keyboard too, which is much better for email.

>>>> AND the competitive products allow you to add 3rd party
>>>> apps to do what the product itself doesnt come with too.

>>>> Yes, many of the stupids dont enhance their device with 3rd party
>>>> apps, but anyone with a clue does when some functionality is missing.

>>> Name calling again.

>> Corse you never ever do anything like that yourself, eh ?

> Not to anybody who tries to carry on an intelligent debate,

You clearly did just that at the top.

> and I haven't called you any names.

Liar.

>>> I don't get it.

>> Your problem.

> Its yours too IF you wish to go on debating with me.

Nope.

> Of course if you don't care, there's always the kill-file.

No one give a flying red **** what fools like you do or do not choose to read.

---

› See More: Apple's iPhone top choice to buy, survey shows

George Graves <[email protected]> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> George Graves <[email protected]> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> George Graves <[email protected]> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> Michelle Steiner <[email protected]> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote

>>>>>>>>> OK, exactly what are iTunes' failings?

>>>>>>>> Its not very intuitive when loading the ipod with mp3
>>>>>>>> you already have on the computer for example.

>>>>>>> Explain, please.

>>>>>> I already did. Its much more intuitive for the ipod to appear
>>>>>> as a drive and to use the normal file manager interface you
>>>>>> are already used to than a special purpose app.

>>>>> You can.

>>>> No you cant by just plugging it in and carrying on
>>>> regardless like you can with the competitive products.

>>> Well not for music, anyway.

>> Precisely.

>>>>> But what about playlists, and song titles and on video
>>>>> iPods album art that's associated with the music?

>>>> Any decent device does all that fine. And a hell of a lot
>>>> more too, like the camera detail with cameras etc too.

>>> What do Cameras have to do with iPods?

>> Everything to do with the sort of extra detail
>> that goes with the files the device handles.

>> Its much more intuitive if all those devices, media players,
>> cameras, phones, USB keys, etc etc etc all just appear as
>> another drive when you plug them into the computer and
>> you can move stuff from one to the other at will with the
>> file manager you use all the time, rather than each device
>> having its own special purpose app like iTunes, each with
>> its own unique UI and way of doing things.

>>>>> These things need a dedicated application to do.

>>>> Wrong again.

>>>>> It won't happen by moving files on the desktop.

>>>> Never said a word about any desktop, and
>>>> it works fine even if you do that anyway.

>>>>>> iTunes doesnt even browse the computer's drive very intuitively.

>>>>>>>> And what applications do those things better?

>>>>>>>> Its rather more intuitive to just drag and drop those mp3s
>>>>>>>> etc you already have to a drive which is the media player.

>>>>>>> That's one option you have with iTunes.

>>>>>> Not with the file manager you use for everything else.

>>>>> Yes you can,

>>>> No you cant by just plugging it in and carrying on
>>>> regardless like you can with the competitive products.

>>>>> it just doesn't arrange them very well, or allow you to
>>>>> associate album art or liner notes with the music.

>>>> Have fun explaining how come the computer manages that fine with mp3s etc.

>>>>> iTunes facilitates all of that.

>>>> So does the file manager when that stuff is already on the
>>>> computer and you just want to dump it into the media player.

>>>> Sure, iTunes is worth having for the stupids who dont use a file
>>>> manager, but it should allow you to treat the device as just another
>>>> drive, like all the other removable drives any computer sees.

>>> Why do you assume that anyone who works differently than you work is stupid?

>> Never did. I just realise that there are indeed some stupids who dont
>> even know what a drive is and that those may well prefer to use
>> iTunes, particularly if they dont have any other devices that plug into
>> the computer like media players, cameras, phones, USB keys etc etc etc.

> There are very few computer users who don't know what a drive is.

There are however quite a few who dont use a file manager much,
who just let their apps save things whereever the app chooses to
save things and those may well find iTunes useful, particularly if
they dont have any other devices that plug into the computer like
media players, cameras, phones, USB keys etc etc etc.

> Its just that most find it more convenient to use a single
> app to handle all of their iPod/Apple TV media files.

Pity about all the other devices that plug into the computer
like media players, cameras, phones, USB keys etc etc etc.

>> Cant be too many of those left anymore tho.

>>>> Its ****ed having separate apps like iTunes for every device
>>>> because you cant use just one app for all the devices.

>>> I disagree.

>> Your problem.

> Not my problem, my opinion.

Its both.

>>> I think it makes using these devices easier and that
>>> therefore it empowers people with their computers.

>> No it doesnt when each one has its own special purpose
>> app like iTunes with its own unique way of doing things.

> I'd say that's YOUR problem ;-)

Nope. Not when discussing whats the most intuitive UI.

>>> Or are you one of those people who would rather the
>>> computer remain an arcane device usable and fathomable
>>> only by the initiated and knowledgeable?

>> Nope.

>>> Many feel that way, and I don't see where such an attitude is very helpful or useful.

>> Sure.

>>> If the automobile industry had maintained such an
>>> attitude, we'd still be using hand cranks to start our cars.

>> Bogus analogy.

> Your problem.

Can't even manage its own lines, or anything else either.

George Graves <[email protected]> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> George Graves <[email protected]> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Michelle Steiner <[email protected]> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote

>>>>>>>>> Most have a lousy UI.

>>>>>>>> Yep. But the ipod UI still leaves quite a bit to be desired anyway.

>>>>>>> Only because nothing is perfect and everything can be improved.

>>>>>> Nope, iTunes particularly has a pretty poor UI,

>>>>> OK, exactly what are iTunes' failings?

>>>> Its not very intuitive when loading the ipod with mp3s
>>>> you already have on the computer for example.

>>> Yeah, that is really difficult. Plug the iPod into the computer
>>> (it automatically launches iTunes, that's a daunting task) when
>>> iTunes launches pull down the file menu and select "Sync iPod".

>> There's more involved than that, you pathetic excuse for a bull**** artist.

> No, there isn't more to it than that. And this shows that
> you are just another loser with a nasty disposition.

Corse that wouldnt be you name calling eh ?

> PLONK!

Fat lot of good that will ever do you, you pathetic excuse for a lying bull**** artist.

>>> Boy that's sure hard and non-intuitive, yessir.
>>> I don't see how anybody ever figures it out!
>>
>> And it would be much more intuitive if it was just another drive,
>> like all the other media players, cameras, phones etc are.
>
>
>>
>>>>> And what applications do those things better?
>>
>>>> Its rather more intuitive to just drag and drop those mp3s
>>>> etc you already have to a drive which is the media player.
>>
>>> Yeah, I can see where that might be easier in some cases.
>>
>> Corse it is if you do that with all the devices you plug into the
>> computer like the media players, cameras, phones, USB keys, etc etc
>> etc.
>>
>>> But with works with lots of related cuts, that could be a
>>> disadvantage.
>>
>> Not clear what you mean by the first half, presumably a word is
>> missing or something.
>>
>>>>> And how do they do them better?
>>
>>>> See just above.
>>
>>>>>>> But the iPod has the best UI of any portable
>>>>>>> media player extant--until Friday, that is.
>>
>>>>>> Nope, plenty of cellphones leave it for dead, essentially because
>>>>>> they integrate the media player with other capability.
>>
>>>>> The iPod isn't a cell phone; how can you compare the two?
>>
>>>> Those others combined those functions long before the iphone ever
>>>> showed up.
>>
>>>> Apple was very slow to see the need for that.
>>
>>>>>>> Why do you think that the iPod has that recognition factor?
>>
>>>>>> Essentially because its an Apple product.
>>
>>>>> And all those Windows users flocked to the iPod because it's an
>>>>> Apple product?
>>
>>>> Nope, because of the brand recognition, they recognised
>>>> the brand when they decided they needed a media player
>>>> and a superficial look showed that its a viable product.
>>
>>> It's more than just superficially viable.
>>
>> Sure, but that isnt obvious until after you own it. I was talking
>> there about the purchasing decision. Most just have a quick look and
>> maybe
>> a salesfool showing them how to select tunes etc and decide that it
>> looks like its a very neat design and buy it and return it later if
>> they dont like the fine detail like whats involved in installing it
>> on their computer etc.
>>
>>> Every test of players that's ever come down the pike has placed
>>> the iPod above all others. Many have cited the GUI as one reason.
>>
>> Sure, but only a tiny subset of buyers buy from that sort of test.
>>
>> Must just buy on gut instinct, brand recognition and a quick look at
>> the actual
>> product in the store or at one that someone else has just bought and
>> is raving about. Thats why it took off, the right mix of decent
>> design, brand recognition
>> and something about the design that appeals to all but complete
>> technoklutzes.

George Graves <[email protected]> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> George Graves <[email protected]> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> George Graves <[email protected]> wrote
>>>>> Michelle Steiner wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote

>>>>>>>>>> OK, exactly what are iTunes' failings?

>>>>>>>>> Its not very intuitive when loading the ipod with mp3
>>>>>>>>> you already have on the computer for example.

>>>>>>>> Explain, please.

>>>>>>> I already did. Its much more intuitive for the ipod to appear
>>>>>>> as a drive and to use the normal file manager interface you
>>>>>>> are already used to than a special purpose app.

>>>>>> No it isn't.

>>>>>>>>> And what applications do those things better?

>>>>>>>>> Its rather more intuitive to just drag and drop those mp3s
>>>>>>>>> etc you already have to a drive which is the media player.

>>>>>>>> That's one option you have with iTunes.

>>>>>>> Not with the file manager you use for everything else.

>>>>>> And that file manager can't play music. Let's see, with your
>>>>>> preferred method, you use one application to download music,
>>>>>> another to play it, another to copy it to the iPod, and another
>>>>>> to burn it to CDs. I, on the other hand, use iTunes for all of
>>>>>> those functions in one easy to use, intuitive, integrated application.

>>>>> I think we've found ourselves another cross-posting Apple hater Michelle.

>>>> Not a shred of evidence that you are actually capable of thought.

>>> Ah, so now we degenerate into name calling.

>> Nope, you did. No name calling there, except by you.

> Where did I call you a name?

Even you should be able to find 'another cross-posting Apple hater' above.

> I said that you seemed to be an Apple hater (from your posts)

Pity there isnt a shred of apple hate in any of my posts.

> but that's hardly personal rancor.

Its clearly name calling.

>>>> So stupid it cant even work out that I didnt crosspost, I
>>>> just left the original crossposting in place, just like you did.

>>> I didn't look, sorry about that, but why the personal rancor?

>> Might just have been triggered by your juvenile name calling.

> Again, what name calling?

See above.

> I have called you by no name.

Bare faced lie.

>>>>> Apple's way is no good because it's ...well....Apples way.

>>>> Wrong again. Its just much more intuitive for a device to
>>>> showup as just another drive, and be able to use the device
>>>> just like any other device when loading and unloading it.

>>> That's a matter of opinion, don't you think?

>> Nope. Matter of fact that allowing BOTH types of access is by definition
>> more intuitive than a single special purpose app for access to the device.

>>> Anyway, its not mine.

>> Your problem.

> Not a problem, just a different opinion.

It your problem that your opinion differs.

>>> There are things that I would change in iTunes, sure, but overall,
>>> its the best integrated app of its kind that I've seen so far.

>> You need to get out more.

>> And treating the device as a drive is much more intuitive than any app can be.

> I disagree

Your problem.

>>>> Sure, include a dedicated app for the stupids who dont even
>>>> know what a drive is, but let those who do know what a drive
>>>> is deal with the device just like any other drive if they want to.

>>> You can do that with an iPod is you wish.

>> Not easily by just plugging the iPod in and using it as a drive you cant.

>>> See Apple gives you the choice. But believe me,
>>> its a lot harder without iTunes than it is with it.

>> No it isnt when its properly implemented as a drive.

> I'm sorry, all things considered, I simply don't see it.

Your problem.

>>>>> Any other way is better because it's ... well, ... not Apple's way.

>>>> Just another mindless Apple bigot.

>>> Seems to be the attitude that you are projecting in this thread.

>> Then you need to get your seems machinery seen to.

>>>> Even someone as stupid as you

>>> Again, why the personal rancor?

>> Again, might just have been triggered by your juvenile name calling.

> I called you no name.

Bare faced lie. You called me another cross-posting Apple hater.

>>> I've not called you any names have I?

>> Corse you did, you called me 'another cross-posting Apple hater'

> I "CHARACTERIZED" you as 'another cross posting Apple hater', I didn't call you one.

Pathetic.

> Even so, responding by calling me stupid,

Never did.

> bigoted,

Or that.

> incapable of thought

Or that.

> is hardly the same as characterizing someone as having a certain opinion (Apple hater)

Just another of your silly little fantasys.

> based upon their own words.

Just like with your stupidity and incapability of thought. Funny that.

>>>> should be able to have a look at my posting history and see that
>>>> I hardly ever make any comment about Apple, and that when I
>>>> do, I have said that the ipod particularly is a very decent
>>>> product, albeit with some real downsides with iTunes particularly.

>>> Frankly, up until a few days ago, I don't remember seeing your name at all.

>> Irrelevant to my history in groups you dont read.

> But relevant enough when you call me stupid
> because I haven't checked your posting history.

Never ever did that, liar.

>>>> Its not a particularly intuitive app, even if you ignore the
>>>> fact that you cant treat the ipod as just another drive.

>> Try getting something out of an ipod and
>> putting it in another media player for starters.

> I can do it for stuff that I've ripped from my own CD collection,
> not from stuff bought from Apple's Music Store.

And you cant get stuff from somone else's ipod into your own very easily either.

>>>>>>>>>>>> But the iPod has the best UI of any portable
>>>>>>>>>>>> media player extant--until Friday, that is.

>>>>>> Right here, we're talking about the iPod

>>>>>>>>>>> Nope, plenty of cellphones leave it for dead, essentially
>>>>>>>>>>> because they integrate the media player with other capability.

>>>>>> Gee, right here, you're changing it to cell phones.

>>>>>>>>>> The iPod isn't a cell phone; how can you compare the two?

>>>>>>>>> Those others combined those functions long before the iphone
>>>>>>>>> ever showed up.

>>>>>> And here you're talking about cell phones
>>>>>> again, still in response to the iPod interface.

>>>>>>>> Huh? We were talking about the iPod.

>>>>>>> Nope, we're talking about media players.

>>>>>> And now, you're talking about media players.

>>>>>>> Nope, we're talking about media players.

>>>>>>>> But even though they did those functions before the iPhone ever
>>>>>>>> showed up doesn't mean that they do it better than the iPhone.

>>>>>>> They do anyway when the device is just another drive visible on the computer.

>>>>>>>> Heck, Verizon's phones don't do it at all--you can't download
>>>>>>>> music from the computer to the phone, period.

>>>>>>> Irrelevant to what hordes of phones can do in that regard.

>>>>>> But we were talking about one of the reasons I'm planning to switch from Verizon.

>>>>>>>> Apple did it with their very first phone; you can't get any faster than that.

>>>>>>> Corse you can, you dont have to lag the rest of the market so dismally.

>>>>>> Oh, so you're saying that Apple should have produced a cell phone years ago?

>>>>>>>> I see; all those other MP3 players that were on the market
>>>>>>>> before the iPod made no impression on them?

>>>>>>> Those that were suckers for the ipod, no they didnt.

>>>>>> 70% of those who have bought MP3 players are suckers?

>>>>>>>> And then when the iPod came out, they started screaming at
>>>>>>>> Apple to make it work with Windows (which the iPod originally
>>>>>>>> didn't do) because it was, by God, an Apple, whose computers
>>>>>>>> they refused to buy.

>>>>>>> Nope, they ignored them until they could be used with what they had.

>>>>>> If they hadn't shown an interest in wanting an iPod, Apple
>>>>>> wouldn't have made the iPod compatible with Windows in the first
>>>>>> place. But even if you're right, that means that people who had
>>>>>> avoided both
>>>>>> Apple and MP3 players in droves suddenly swarmed to get iPods
>>>>>> because Apple made the iPod available for Windows? Do you
>>>>>> realize how senseless your thesis is?

>>>>>> I'll tell you one thing, though; if the iPhone won't do voice
>>>>>> dialing and if it won't upload its address book to my car (which
>>>>>> has Bluetooth capability for cell phones), I won't buy one. If
>>>>>> it does one, but not the other, I'll have to decide.

>>>>> It won't surprise me if it doesn't do one or the other.

>>>> Me neither, and when so many of its competitive products do
>>>> both, AND allow the device to be used just like any other drive...

>>>>> Rarely do I buy a technology product (or even a computer application) that will
>>>>> do everything I would put in it had I designed it. I suspect we're all that way

>>>> Pity that the functionality she wants is there in the competitive
>>>> products. With a real keyboard too, which is much better for email.

>>>> AND the competitive products allow you to add 3rd party
>>>> apps to do what the product itself doesnt come with too.

>>>> Yes, many of the stupids dont enhance their device with 3rd party
>>>> apps, but anyone with a clue does when some functionality is missing.

>>> Name calling again.

>> Corse you never ever do anything like that yourself, eh ?

> Not to anybody who tries to carry on an intelligent debate,

You clearly did just that at the top.

> and I haven't called you any names.

Liar.

>>> I don't get it.

>> Your problem.

> Its yours too IF you wish to go on debating with me.

Nope.

> Of course if you don't care, there's always the kill-file.

No one give a flying red **** what fools like you do or do not choose to read.

George Graves <[email protected]> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> George Graves <[email protected]> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> George Graves <[email protected]> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> Michelle Steiner <[email protected]> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote

>>>>>>>>> OK, exactly what are iTunes' failings?

>>>>>>>> Its not very intuitive when loading the ipod with mp3
>>>>>>>> you already have on the computer for example.

>>>>>>> Explain, please.

>>>>>> I already did. Its much more intuitive for the ipod to appear
>>>>>> as a drive and to use the normal file manager interface you
>>>>>> are already used to than a special purpose app.

>>>>> You can.

>>>> No you cant by just plugging it in and carrying on
>>>> regardless like you can with the competitive products.

>>> Well not for music, anyway.

>> Precisely.

>>>>> But what about playlists, and song titles and on video
>>>>> iPods album art that's associated with the music?

>>>> Any decent device does all that fine. And a hell of a lot
>>>> more too, like the camera detail with cameras etc too.

>>> What do Cameras have to do with iPods?

>> Everything to do with the sort of extra detail
>> that goes with the files the device handles.

>> Its much more intuitive if all those devices, media players,
>> cameras, phones, USB keys, etc etc etc all just appear as
>> another drive when you plug them into the computer and
>> you can move stuff from one to the other at will with the
>> file manager you use all the time, rather than each device
>> having its own special purpose app like iTunes, each with
>> its own unique UI and way of doing things.

>>>>> These things need a dedicated application to do.

>>>> Wrong again.

>>>>> It won't happen by moving files on the desktop.

>>>> Never said a word about any desktop, and
>>>> it works fine even if you do that anyway.

>>>>>> iTunes doesnt even browse the computer's drive very intuitively.

>>>>>>>> And what applications do those things better?

>>>>>>>> Its rather more intuitive to just drag and drop those mp3s
>>>>>>>> etc you already have to a drive which is the media player.

>>>>>>> That's one option you have with iTunes.

>>>>>> Not with the file manager you use for everything else.

>>>>> Yes you can,

>>>> No you cant by just plugging it in and carrying on
>>>> regardless like you can with the competitive products.

>>>>> it just doesn't arrange them very well, or allow you to
>>>>> associate album art or liner notes with the music.

>>>> Have fun explaining how come the computer manages that fine with mp3s etc.

>>>>> iTunes facilitates all of that.

>>>> So does the file manager when that stuff is already on the
>>>> computer and you just want to dump it into the media player.

>>>> Sure, iTunes is worth having for the stupids who dont use a file
>>>> manager, but it should allow you to treat the device as just another
>>>> drive, like all the other removable drives any computer sees.

>>> Why do you assume that anyone who works differently than you work is stupid?

>> Never did. I just realise that there are indeed some stupids who dont
>> even know what a drive is and that those may well prefer to use
>> iTunes, particularly if they dont have any other devices that plug into
>> the computer like media players, cameras, phones, USB keys etc etc etc.

> There are very few computer users who don't know what a drive is.

There are however quite a few who dont use a file manager much,
who just let their apps save things whereever the app chooses to
save things and those may well find iTunes useful, particularly if
they dont have any other devices that plug into the computer like
media players, cameras, phones, USB keys etc etc etc.

> Its just that most find it more convenient to use a single
> app to handle all of their iPod/Apple TV media files.

Pity about all the other devices that plug into the computer
like media players, cameras, phones, USB keys etc etc etc.

>> Cant be too many of those left anymore tho.

>>>> Its ****ed having separate apps like iTunes for every device
>>>> because you cant use just one app for all the devices.

>>> I disagree.

>> Your problem.

> Not my problem, my opinion.

Its both.

>>> I think it makes using these devices easier and that
>>> therefore it empowers people with their computers.

>> No it doesnt when each one has its own special purpose
>> app like iTunes with its own unique way of doing things.

> I'd say that's YOUR problem ;-)

Nope. Not when discussing whats the most intuitive UI.

>>> Or are you one of those people who would rather the
>>> computer remain an arcane device usable and fathomable
>>> only by the initiated and knowledgeable?

>> Nope.

>>> Many feel that way, and I don't see where such an attitude is very helpful or useful.

>> Sure.

>>> If the automobile industry had maintained such an
>>> attitude, we'd still be using hand cranks to start our cars.

>> Bogus analogy.

> Your problem.

Can't even manage its own lines, or anything else either.

In article <[email protected]>,
Justin <[email protected]> wrote:

> George Graves wrote on [Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:32:28 -0700]:
> > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:42:46 -0700, Justin wrote
> > (in article <[email protected]>):
> >
> >> George Graves wrote on [Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:27:04 -0700]:
> >>> Yeah, that is really difficult. Plug the iPod into the computer (it
> >>> automatically launches iTunes, that's a daunting task) when iTunes
> >>> launches
> >>> pull down the file menu and select "Sync iPod". Boy that's sure hard and
> >>> non-intuitive, yessir. I don't see how anybody ever figures it out!
> >>
> >> Yup, and to achieve that alleged simplicity it runs two processes
> >> continually that take up way more ram than necessary.
> >>
> >>>> Nope, because of the brand recognition, they recognised
> >>>> the brand when they decided they needed a media player
> >>>> and a superficial look showed that its a viable product.
> >>>
> >>> It's more than just superficially viable. Every test of players that's
> >>> ever
> >>> come down the pike has placed the iPod above all others. Many have cited
> >>> the
> >>> GUI as one reason.
> >>
> >> Yep, the exellently intuitive gui that doesn't even tell you how to turn
> >> the thing off. Or how to recover from the frequent crashes it has.
> >
> > What frequent crashes?
>
> I know the nano I have crashes on two of three days at least once. Yes,
> it's updated, it's one of the current gen.
>
> No, I didn't buy it, it was a prize. It works OK for podcasts.

I'd visit an Apple store with it. I think my previous generation nano
has crashed all of once, ever. I've had it for a year.

--
"That's George Washington, the first president, of course. The interesting thing
about him is that I read three--three or four books about him last year. Isn't
that interesting?"
- George W. Bush to reporter Kai Diekmann, May 5, 2006

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:12:42 -0700, Justin wrote
(in article <[email protected]>):

> George Graves wrote on [Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:32:28 -0700]:
>> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:42:46 -0700, Justin wrote
>> (in article <[email protected]>):
>>
>>> George Graves wrote on [Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:27:04 -0700]:
>>>> Yeah, that is really difficult. Plug the iPod into the computer (it
>>>> automatically launches iTunes, that's a daunting task) when iTunes
>>>> launches
>>>> pull down the file menu and select "Sync iPod". Boy that's sure hard and
>>>> non-intuitive, yessir. I don't see how anybody ever figures it out!
>>>
>>> Yup, and to achieve that alleged simplicity it runs two processes
>>> continually that take up way more ram than necessary.
>>>
>>>>> Nope, because of the brand recognition, they recognised
>>>>> the brand when they decided they needed a media player
>>>>> and a superficial look showed that its a viable product.
>>>>
>>>> It's more than just superficially viable. Every test of players that's
>>>> ever
>>>> come down the pike has placed the iPod above all others. Many have cited
>>>> the
>>>> GUI as one reason.
>>>
>>> Yep, the exellently intuitive gui that doesn't even tell you how to turn
>>> the thing off. Or how to recover from the frequent crashes it has.
>>
>> What frequent crashes?
>
> I know the nano I have crashes on two of three days at least once. Yes,
> it's updated, it's one of the current gen.
>
> No, I didn't buy it, it was a prize. It works OK for podcasts.

I have never heard of a iPod "crashing", that's a new one on me - especially
one with flash memory rather than a HDD (which I could, perhaps, see). I have
an older 10 Gig model with a HDD in it, and its never crashed. Would you mind
terribly telling us how these crashes manifest themselves? IOW, what does the
iPod do when it crashes? Thanks.

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:55:41 -0700, ZnU wrote
(in article <[email protected]>):

> In article <[email protected]>,
> Justin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> George Graves wrote on [Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:32:28 -0700]:
>>> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:42:46 -0700, Justin wrote
>>> (in article <[email protected]>):
>>>
>>>> George Graves wrote on [Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:27:04 -0700]:
>>>>> Yeah, that is really difficult. Plug the iPod into the computer (it
>>>>> automatically launches iTunes, that's a daunting task) when iTunes
>>>>> launches
>>>>> pull down the file menu and select "Sync iPod". Boy that's sure hard and
>>>>> non-intuitive, yessir. I don't see how anybody ever figures it out!
>>>>
>>>> Yup, and to achieve that alleged simplicity it runs two processes
>>>> continually that take up way more ram than necessary.
>>>>
>>>>>> Nope, because of the brand recognition, they recognised
>>>>>> the brand when they decided they needed a media player
>>>>>> and a superficial look showed that its a viable product.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's more than just superficially viable. Every test of players that's
>>>>> ever
>>>>> come down the pike has placed the iPod above all others. Many have cited
>>>>> the
>>>>> GUI as one reason.
>>>>
>>>> Yep, the exellently intuitive gui that doesn't even tell you how to turn
>>>> the thing off. Or how to recover from the frequent crashes it has.
>>>
>>> What frequent crashes?
>>
>> I know the nano I have crashes on two of three days at least once. Yes,
>> it's updated, it's one of the current gen.
>>
>> No, I didn't buy it, it was a prize. It works OK for podcasts.
>
> I'd visit an Apple store with it. I think my previous generation nano
> has crashed all of once, ever. I've had it for a year.
>
>

Hmm I didn't know that they crashed at all! Fancy that.

Justin posted to five newsgroups:
> Rocky Mountain News
>
> Apple's iPhone top choice to buy, survey shows

Hey, aren't you the guy fussing and fuming elsewhere about all the
iPhone hype being posted to those five newsgroups?

--
Wes Groleau

Change is inevitable. We need to learn that "inevitable" is
neither a synonym for "good" nor for "bad."
-- WWG

Justin wrote:
> Different guy. Check the headers.

I'll take your word for it. Can't be bothered
to go hunting for an asinine post just to see who wrote it.

:-)

Sorry for the misperception

--
Wes Groleau

The man who says, "I can do it!" may sometimes fail.
The man who says, "Impossible!" will never succeed.

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:41:53 -0700, Justin wrote
(in article <[email protected]>):

> George Graves wrote on [Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:54:00 -0700]:
>> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:12:42 -0700, Justin wrote
>> (in article <[email protected]>):
>>
>>> George Graves wrote on [Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:32:28 -0700]:
>>>> On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:42:46 -0700, Justin wrote
>>>> (in article <[email protected]>):
>>>>
>>>>> George Graves wrote on [Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:27:04 -0700]:
>>>>>> Yeah, that is really difficult. Plug the iPod into the computer (it
>>>>>> automatically launches iTunes, that's a daunting task) when iTunes
>>>>>> launches
>>>>>> pull down the file menu and select "Sync iPod". Boy that's sure hard
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> non-intuitive, yessir. I don't see how anybody ever figures it out!
>>>>>
>>>>> Yup, and to achieve that alleged simplicity it runs two processes
>>>>> continually that take up way more ram than necessary.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope, because of the brand recognition, they recognised
>>>>>>> the brand when they decided they needed a media player
>>>>>>> and a superficial look showed that its a viable product.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's more than just superficially viable. Every test of players that's
>>>>>> ever
>>>>>> come down the pike has placed the iPod above all others. Many have
>>>>>> cited
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> GUI as one reason.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep, the exellently intuitive gui that doesn't even tell you how to turn
>>>>> the thing off. Or how to recover from the frequent crashes it has.
>>>>
>>>> What frequent crashes?
>>>
>>> I know the nano I have crashes on two of three days at least once. Yes,
>>> it's updated, it's one of the current gen.
>>>
>>> No, I didn't buy it, it was a prize. It works OK for podcasts.
>>
>> I have never heard of a iPod "crashing", that's a new one on me -
>> especially
>> one with flash memory rather than a HDD (which I could, perhaps, see). I
>> have
>> an older 10 Gig model with a HDD in it, and its never crashed. Would you
>> mind
>> terribly telling us how these crashes manifest themselves? IOW, what does
>> the
>> iPod do when it crashes? Thanks.
>
> I plug it into the car stero via the headphone jack, hit play. It locks up.
> After forcing a
> reset with the play/pause-centre button it shows a very faint apple logo
> while it had a small loading status bar. About 30 seconds later it's
> ready to go again.
>
> Same thing happens with headphones.

Interesting. I think a previous poster is correct. The next time you're near
your closest Apple Store, take the thing to the "Genius Bar" therein. I
believe that they will tell you that this is not normal and perhaps they can
recommend a "fix" for you. I think it would be worth a try. Have you been to
the Apple iPod site searching for firmware upgrades? I don't know that there
is one for your nano, but its probably worth looking. It really shouldn't do
that.

In article <[email protected]>, Rod Speed
<[email protected]> wrote:

> >> Nope, just rubbing his nose in the fact that even MS can improve the UI.
> > When are they gonna do it for their own computer OS users?
> They've already done that, and its hilarious how
> much of the UI is spreading into Linux now.
But not because it is good UI; because a lot of users know it and are
trying to mimic Windows because it's common.
That's such a huge difference you cannot imagine how foolish it makes
your claim.

> > Most have a lousy UI.
> Yep. But the ipod UI still leaves quite a bit to be desired anyway.
> ITunes in spades.
Wow. Your statement is made now in at least six different messages, and
you have yet to mention ONE place or reason for the opinion. Which
flies in the face of almost every other reviewer, so you have a strong
need to show at least SOMETHING.

> > Its one reason why iPod is on top and stays on top.
> Nope, thats primarily due to the recognition factor. The same
> thing that sees MS so completely dominate PC apps now.
Probably not an insignificant factor, right.

> >> Not really intuitive enough to be able to use without a manual for most.
> > Huh? Are we talking about the same iPod?
> Yep.
A manual? Seriously? I've never heard ANYONE comment that it wasn't
obvious.

> > It's so intuitive that when I got mine, (which was given to me) it came
> > without a manual. I never needed one. It was instantly obvious to
> > even the most casual observer, exactly how the lil' bugger worked.
> Thats just plain wrong with loading it with what you want.
You're switching again; you're talking about iTunes, right?
And since iTunes shows and helps you select stuff, it still sounds
foolish.

> And finding a particular tune when its full of stuff too.
How is that hard? You have at least four different ways to index. I
suspect everyone knows at least one of them when they are looking.


I'm not really expecting you to fold; I think you have a specific
complaint in mind and are just not saying it.
I think it's time to say it. Tell us what needs to be better on iPod.




(Yet again, cut out irrelevant groups!)

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 03:21:21 -0700, Mitch wrote
(in article <270620070021211684%[email protected]>):

> In article <[email protected]>, Rod Speed
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>> Nope, just rubbing his nose in the fact that even MS can improve the UI.
>>> When are they gonna do it for their own computer OS users?
>> They've already done that, and its hilarious how
>> much of the UI is spreading into Linux now.
> But not because it is good UI; because a lot of users know it and are
> trying to mimic Windows because it's common.
> That's such a huge difference you cannot imagine how foolish it makes
> your claim.
>
>>> Most have a lousy UI.
>> Yep. But the ipod UI still leaves quite a bit to be desired anyway.
>> ITunes in spades.
> Wow. Your statement is made now in at least six different messages, and
> you have yet to mention ONE place or reason for the opinion. Which
> flies in the face of almost every other reviewer, so you have a strong
> need to show at least SOMETHING.
>
>>> Its one reason why iPod is on top and stays on top.
>> Nope, thats primarily due to the recognition factor. The same
>> thing that sees MS so completely dominate PC apps now.
> Probably not an insignificant factor, right.
>
>>>> Not really intuitive enough to be able to use without a manual for most.
>>> Huh? Are we talking about the same iPod?
>> Yep.
> A manual? Seriously? I've never heard ANYONE comment that it wasn't
> obvious.
>
>>> It's so intuitive that when I got mine, (which was given to me) it came
>>> without a manual. I never needed one. It was instantly obvious to
>>> even the most casual observer, exactly how the lil' bugger worked.
>> Thats just plain wrong with loading it with what you want.
> You're switching again; you're talking about iTunes, right?
> And since iTunes shows and helps you select stuff, it still sounds
> foolish.
>
>> And finding a particular tune when its full of stuff too.
> How is that hard? You have at least four different ways to index. I
> suspect everyone knows at least one of them when they are looking.
>
>
> I'm not really expecting you to fold; I think you have a specific
> complaint in mind and are just not saying it.
> I think it's time to say it. Tell us what needs to be better on iPod.
>
>
>
>
> (Yet again, cut out irrelevant groups!)

He wants it work exactly like an HDD, where you just drag music files to the
iPod from the desktop's file manager. I don't see that as an advantage, but
for some reason this guy does.

In article <[email protected]>, George
Graves <[email protected]> wrote:

> He wants it work exactly like an HDD, where you just drag music files to the
> iPod from the desktop's file manager. I don't see that as an advantage, but
> for some reason this guy does.

Only people who move very few files can see it as an advantage.
And who don't expect the playlists to sync, or don't mind checking
update figures, or consider the copy protection issues.

But the biggest thing is that it's much more annoying to do all the
sorting on your own and move files one at a time, or defeat some
organization you have or files just to put them in movable locations.

I appreciate, however, that he is at least advocating a simple
file-moving metaphor. Simple is better, direct is better, and if we
were talking about keeping two or three files up-to-date, I might be
agreeing with him.

Michelle Steiner wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>> I already did. Its much more intuitive for the ipod to appear as a
>>>> drive and to use the normal file manager interface you are already
>>>> used to than a special purpose app.
>>> No it isn't.
>> Corse it is. You dont have a separate app per device for starters.
>
> Well, lets see. iTunes will play and organize music on the computer; it
> will work with the iPod, AppleTV, and iPhone--nope; don't need a
> separate app per device.
>
>>> I, on the other hand, use iTunes for all of those functions in one
>>> easy to use, intuitive, integrated application.
>> Pity about all the other devices that also just show up as a drive.
>
> "All those other devices" are a DVD/CD drive and an external hard drive;
> the file manager is used to manage files on them. I don't play or
> organize music with them because a file manager isn't designed to do
> that.
>
>> Because even someone as stupid as you
>> You quite sure you aint one of those rocket scientist mindless bigots ?
>> Easy to claim, bigot.
>
> Anyone who doesn't agree with you is stupid and a bigot. So much for
> rational discussion. Bye bye.
>
>> You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly
>> irrelevant.
>
> Only to complete assholes like you. You're a Republican, right?

Actually, I was going to ask if he was a filthy Liberal/Democrat.

>
> **** off.
>