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  1. #61

    Re: stop crying (was Re: Verizon Wireless thumbs its nose at theiPhone)

    Rod Speed wrote:
    > [email protected] wrote:
    >> Rod Speed wrote:
    >>> [email protected] wrote:
    >>>> M-M wrote:
    >>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
    >>>>> "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> The only BT profile that Verizon is missing off any modern phone
    >>>>>> that I've seen is the "Multimedia File Sharing" profile, which is
    >>>>>> mostly WORTHLESS.
    >>>>> VZW won't allow you to add your own ringtones or transfer photos by
    >>>>> BT and that's irritating. It's a pain to have to use the card.
    >>>> SURE THEY DO, use bitpim if you insist on doing it that way. If you
    >>>> still want to use bluetooth you totally missed the whole ****ing
    >>>> point of my post.
    >>>>
    >>>>>> Personally I consider Verizon pretty damned open, especially when
    >>>>>> it comes to data services.
    >>>>> I agree with you there. That's why I'm staying.
    >>>> Some people want a "personal communications device", some people
    >>>> only need bling-bling.
    >>>>
    >>>>>> I really haven't seen anything the iPhone does that the
    >>>>>> already-been-off-the-market-6-months VX9800 can't do.
    >>>>> The iPhone is WAY cooler and that's the name of the game and Apple
    >>>>> knows that.
    >>>> "cooler" for what? They did a lot of marketing, paid a lot of
    >>>> people to claim how goddamn cool it was on the internet, etc.
    >>>>
    >>>> The ****ing thing is bigger than a Microtac. If big phones are the
    >>>> new kewl thing, I guess I'll pull a brick out and start using it (at
    >>>> least until Febuary...)
    >>>>
    >>>>>> Apple needs to stick to markets they understand. Cellular isn't
    >>>>>> one of them, obviously. They're not in a position to be
    >>>>>> competitive with folks like Samsung, LG, Motorola, Nokia, etc.
    >>>>> Don't underestimate Apple.
    >>>> Why the **** not? THEY HAVE NEVER AT ANY POINT IN HISTORY EVER
    >>>> ACTUALLY HAD ANY SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF ANY MARKET THEY ARE A PART
    >>>> OF.
    >>> That is just plain wrong with the ipod.

    >
    >> Actually, those dinky chinky flash-based mp3 players sold A LOT MORE worldwide than all the apple
    >> players put together.

    >
    > Apple still had A SIGNIFICANT PORTION of that particular market.
    >
    > The only market they did manage that with.


    Ok, I'll retract my statement. They got a lot more than they should
    have, thats for damned well sure.

    >> Most of the folks I saw carrying ipods a few years ago now carry somebody else's mp3 player or
    >> already upgraded to a media-playing cellphone and an SD card.

    >
    > You didnt say the majority, just A SIGNIFICANT PORTION.
    >
    > The portion that Apple did achieve is certainly SIGNIFICANT.


    For a time, sure. They're starting to lose out to more competitive
    devices from better equipped manufacturers. They make/made a LOT more
    money selling media than they did the devices, though.

    >> I personally think they're attempting to peddle a 3 year old phone inside of a LCD picture frame.

    >
    > More fool you.


    Hmm... Wheres the HSPDA or UMTS? Its a cheezy old GSM phone with a big
    screen and some mostly worthless software. The lack of 3rd party
    software makes it equally worthless as a standard Verizon BREW phone.

    >> Not very cool at all.

    >
    > It is a pretty decent design, with some real lacks like
    > not being able to run 3rd party apps, no removable
    > battery, no SD card etc and the wrong cellphone network.


    Well, I still don't like the design, at all. Its just too damned big
    for a phone, and it fails as a complete PDA solution.




    See More: Verizon Wireless thumbs its nose at the iPhone




  2. #62

    Re: stop crying (was Re: Verizon Wireless thumbs its nose at theiPhone)

    Kurt Ullman wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> [email protected] wrote:
    >>> On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 06:38:05 -0500, "[email protected]"
    >>> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Apple needs to stick to markets they understand. Cellular isn't one of
    >>>> them, obviously. They're not in a position to be competitive with folks
    >>>> like Samsung, LG, Motorola, Nokia, etc.
    >>>
    >>> NICE TRY

    >> Selling a lot of units doesn't constitute success. Success is having
    >> those people buy the second unit.
    >>

    > Why stop there? WHy not the 25th? 100th?


    Selling the second one might be tough for Apple. If the first iPhones
    are anything like the first iPods, Cingular is going to have some PISSED
    OFF CUSTOMERS... Would you sign a 2 year contract on the daily
    operation of a 1st generation iPod, knowing the reliability of those
    devices today? Not I!







  3. #63

    Re: stop crying (was Re: Verizon Wireless thumbs its nose at theiPhone)

    M-M wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>> Don't underestimate Apple.

    >> Why the **** not? THEY HAVE NEVER AT ANY POINT IN HISTORY EVER ACTUALLY
    >> HAD ANY SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF ANY MARKET THEY ARE A PART OF.

    >
    > How about the stock market?


    Apple's stock has very damned little to do with anything, and compared
    to many other companies they're very small potatoes.

    Personally I'd be much more interested if Cisco/Linksys was selling a
    cellphone. Apple? Plz.





  4. #64

    Re: stop crying (was Re: Verizon Wireless thumbs its nose at theiPhone)

    Randall Ainsworth wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > <"[email protected]"> wrote:
    >
    >> Selling a lot of units doesn't constitute success. Success is having
    >> those people buy the second unit.

    >
    > Britney Spears has sold a lot of records - that doesn't mean she knows
    > how to sing.


    Yep. Luckily for Ms. Spears theres always a steady flow of new 12 year
    old girls (and 50 year old pervy guys) to buy her product.




  5. #65

    Re: stop crying (was Re: Verizon Wireless thumbs its nose at theiPhone)

    Todd Allcock wrote:
    > At 01 Jul 2007 16:40:43 +0000 [email protected] wrote:
    >
    > Oh, yes, and all Windows Mobile phones' Media Players and PIM functions
    > operated with or without a SIM, activated or not.


    Yep. The current generation of wifi-equipped WM5/6 (and PalmOS) phones
    will make *awesome* VoIP-over-WiFi phones when they run out of contract.

    Can't wait to start picking them up cheap off ebay.




  6. #66

    Re: Verizon Wireless thumbs its nose at the iPhone

    Michael Paris wrote:
    >
    > ">
    >> Whats crippled? My phones makes and receives calls just fine and in a
    >> lot more places than at&t.\

    >
    > More or less about the same as far as coverge, each has their better
    > areas, I read people ***** about ATT's coverage, honestly never had a
    > problem, When I had VZW the same held true.


    Pft. CDMA has a clear cut 10+ dB advantage on any GSM system and
    doesn't fall flat on its ass when theres some multipath. Thats tough to
    argue with.





  7. #67
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: stop crying (was Re: Verizon Wireless thumbs its nose at the iPhone)

    At 01 Jul 2007 19:18:50 -0500 [email protected] wrote:
    > They make/made a LOT more money selling media than they did the
    > devices, though.


    Actually quite the opposite- by selling the downloads at 99-cents with
    virtually no margin, iTunes is essentially a break-even operation
    designed to support the sales of VERY profitable hardware.

    As you correctly point out, other manufacturers create superior spec'd
    hardware at lower retail prices, yet iTunes helps insure that people
    upgrade their old iPod with newer iPods rather than switch brands and
    devalue their investment in iTunes downloads.



    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com




  8. #68
    David Fritzinger
    Guest

    Re: stop crying (was Re: Verizon Wireless thumbs its nose at the iPhone)

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Randall Ainsworth wrote:
    > > In article <[email protected]>, Dr zara
    > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >> I have used ATT and Verizon for at least twenty years, concurrently. Let
    > >> me
    > >> assure you that ATT third rate. Verizon blows it away on a daily basis.
    > >> FYI: The "new" ATT is not anything like the "old" ATT.

    > >
    > > More accurately phrased: Verizon blows.
    > > But, if you like crippled hardware so they can do open wallet surgery
    > > at every turn...then go for it.

    >
    > Stop, back the truck up...
    >
    > The only BT profile that Verizon is missing off any modern phone that
    > I've seen is the "Multimedia File Sharing" profile, which is mostly
    > WORTHLESS.
    >
    > It has multiple problems:
    >
    > #1 - its really slow! Its even painfully slow on BT 2.0 if you're
    > moving more than a handful of photos at a time, forget MP3s or movies.
    > Its worse with wifi or any other 2.4 ghz interference present (I've
    > actually caused my BT adapter to be completely unable to work by running
    > netstumbler - the constant flow of AP queries sent by NS (on every wifi
    > channel) managed to completely hose the BT connection)
    >
    > #2 - its not reliable, and the failure modes vary depending on
    > manufacturer/model/situation/etc. Ever tried to recover lost clusters
    > in the internal flash on a phone that you have no direct file system
    > access on? Its not much fun.
    >
    > #3 - its a support nightmare. Verizon doesn't want to support your
    > peecee (or macintrash) unless you cough up the big bucks for a data
    > account. Considering how stupid-and-proud-of-it most people are, I
    > can't blame them. Theres a reason PDA data accounts are cheaper -
    > theres significantly less support hassles compared to pc-card/tethered
    > customers.
    >
    > If you want easy access to add/modify/remove files, you should get a
    > phone that supports a removable memory card. Its a lot more convenient
    > than any other option and several hundred times faster than anything
    > you're going to push over bluetooth. Buying good, fast flash can
    > improve the phone's responsiveness (especially when saving images) by
    > comparison to the internal flash, and you reduce the chance of 'wearing
    > out' the internal flash (most flash is only rated for between 100k to 1M
    > writes). The other nice thing about this is applications like WMP and
    > WinAmp will "pick up" the flash device (once its been initialized by
    > inserted in the cellphone at least once while its turned on) as a
    > multimedia device and handle the files for you. You can also copy files
    > 'the old fashioned way' (there are separate folders on the flash for the
    > different types of media)
    >
    > Personally I consider Verizon pretty damned open, especially when it
    > comes to data services. Some carriers (at least they did a few years
    > back) charge extra for dial-out modem (14.4k) access, and nobody else I
    > can find offers anything similar to the MOU 1xRTT/EVDO. That alone
    > saves me at least $35/mo compared to any other carrier and I never burn
    > up enough of my minutes (~200 minutes and ~40MB per month of 1x usage)
    > to care.
    >
    > The minutes are the same price as the other area carriers, the text/pics
    > are about the same price, and I don't have to pay out the ass for small
    > quantities of data usage... Works out perfect for me.
    >
    > I really haven't seen anything the iPhone does that the
    > already-been-off-the-market-6-months VX9800 can't do. The VX9800 has a
    > faster cellular radio and can stream things off the cell network with
    > ease. tethered data speeds are limited by the bt 1.2 interface and my
    > lack of a compatible USB data cable. Theres really only two reasons I'd
    > want a wifi-capable phone: The ability for the phone to operate as a
    > wifi AP and route between the cellular interface and wifi - this won't
    > happen on the iphone due to the slow EDGE cellular radio. The second
    > feature would be for it to be a VoIP-over-WiFi client, which doesn't
    > exist (yet), but does for almost every other modern smartphone out there.
    >
    > Apple needs to stick to markets they understand. Cellular isn't one of
    > them, obviously. They're not in a position to be competitive with folks
    > like Samsung, LG, Motorola, Nokia, etc.
    >
    > Oh well, nothing like good ol' Usenet. Full of loudmouth jackasses and
    > the corporate ringers that lead them around...


    Actually, I have a Verizon Moto V3c. I generally like Verizon, and will
    probably keep it when I upgrade my phone in a year or so. One big gripe
    I have is that hey have handicapped the phone by disabling OBEX (I think
    that is the term), which would allow me to download pictures from the
    phone to my computer. Otherwise, I am pretty happy with them, as they
    have good coverage, both here in Hawaii and on the Mainland.

    --
    Dave Fritzinger
    Honolulu, HI



  9. #69
    Matthew T. Russotto
    Guest

    Re: stop crying (was Re: Verizon Wireless thumbs its nose at theiPhone)

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >Why the **** not? THEY [Apple] HAVE NEVER AT ANY POINT IN HISTORY EVER ACTUALLY
    >HAD ANY SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF ANY MARKET THEY ARE A PART OF.


    Well, unless you count personal computers, PDAs, and portable digital music
    players. Keep on trollin', though.
    --
    There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
    result in a fully-depreciated one.



  10. #70
    Bill Gates
    Guest

    Re: stop crying (was Re: Verizon Wireless thumbs its nose at the iPhone)

    [email protected] (Matthew T. Russotto) wrote:

    > >Why the **** not? THEY [Apple] HAVE NEVER AT ANY POINT IN HISTORY EVER
    > >ACTUALLY
    > >HAD ANY SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF ANY MARKET THEY ARE A PART OF.

    >
    > Well, unless you count personal computers, PDAs, and portable digital music
    > players. Keep on trollin', though.


    That's like saying the United State or Great Britain never had
    significant marketshare of population, but oddly enough they still
    control most of the world.

    Apple is the LEADER in most all high tech markets, sure their
    marketshare is low, but you need to learn they OWN the TOP part of the
    markets they control, (PC, PDA, Music, Video, Cell Phones, etc) everyone
    else is a "Apple Wannabe".



  11. #71
    Matthew T. Russotto
    Guest

    Re: stop crying (was Re: Verizon Wireless thumbs its nose at theiPhone)

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >Selling the second one might be tough for Apple.


    Trivial. They were limiting sales to two per customer, and many
    customers bought two. But keep on trollin'
    --
    There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
    result in a fully-depreciated one.



  12. #72
    Rod Speed
    Guest

    Re: stop crying (was Re: Verizon Wireless thumbs its nose at the iPhone)

    [email protected] wrote
    > Rod Speed wrote
    >> [email protected] wrote
    >>> Rod Speed wrote
    >>>> [email protected] wrote
    >>>>> M-M wrote:
    >>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote


    >>>>>>> The only BT profile that Verizon is missing off any modern phone
    >>>>>>> that I've seen is the "Multimedia File Sharing" profile, which
    >>>>>>> is mostly WORTHLESS.


    >>>>>> VZW won't allow you to add your own ringtones or transfer photos
    >>>>>> by BT and that's irritating. It's a pain to have to use the card.


    >>>>> SURE THEY DO, use bitpim if you insist on doing it that way. If
    >>>>> you still want to use bluetooth you totally missed the whole
    >>>>> ****ing point of my post.


    >>>>>>> Personally I consider Verizon pretty damned open, especially
    >>>>>>> when it comes to data services.


    >>>>>> I agree with you there. That's why I'm staying.


    >>>>> Some people want a "personal communications device", some people only need bling-bling.


    >>>>>>> I really haven't seen anything the iPhone does that the
    >>>>>>> already-been-off-the-market-6-months VX9800 can't do.


    >>>>>> The iPhone is WAY cooler and that's the name of the game and
    >>>>>> Apple knows that.


    >>>>> "cooler" for what? They did a lot of marketing, paid a lot of
    >>>>> people to claim how goddamn cool it was on the internet, etc.


    >>>>> The ****ing thing is bigger than a Microtac. If big phones are
    >>>>> the new kewl thing, I guess I'll pull a brick out and start using
    >>>>> it (at least until Febuary...)


    >>>>>>> Apple needs to stick to markets they understand. Cellular isn't
    >>>>>>> one of them, obviously. They're not in a position to be
    >>>>>>> competitive with folks like Samsung, LG, Motorola, Nokia, etc.


    >>>>>> Don't underestimate Apple.


    >>>>> Why the **** not? THEY HAVE NEVER AT ANY POINT IN HISTORY EVER ACTUALLY HAD ANY SIGNIFICANT
    >>>>> PORTION OF ANY MARKET THEY ARE A PART OF.


    >>>> That is just plain wrong with the ipod.


    >>> Actually, those dinky chinky flash-based mp3 players sold A LOT
    >>> MORE worldwide than all the apple players put together.


    >> Apple still had A SIGNIFICANT PORTION of that particular market.


    >> The only market they did manage that with.


    > Ok, I'll retract my statement. They got a lot more than they should have, thats for damned well
    > sure.


    Dunno, its got a rather better user interface than most of the
    alternatives, with some real downsides too, like not being able
    to treat the device as a drive too, and no user replaceable battery.

    >>> Most of the folks I saw carrying ipods a few years ago now carry somebody else's mp3 player or
    >>> already upgraded to a media-playing cellphone and an SD card.


    >> You didnt say the majority, just A SIGNIFICANT PORTION.


    >> The portion that Apple did achieve is certainly SIGNIFICANT.


    > For a time, sure. They're starting to lose out to more competitive devices from better equipped
    > manufacturers.


    Maybe. I cant think of too many that are such elegant
    designs tho except where the media player is integrated in
    the phone, something Apple is VERY late to market with.

    > They make/made a LOT more money selling media than they did the devices, though.


    Sure, but that is also another area where they
    got a very significant portion of the market too.

    >>> I personally think they're attempting to peddle a 3 year old phone inside of a LCD picture
    >>> frame.


    >> More fool you.


    > Hmm... Wheres the HSPDA or UMTS? Its a cheezy old GSM phone


    Yes, it should certainly be 3G.

    > with a big screen and some mostly worthless software.


    A quite elegant user interface tho.

    > The lack of 3rd party software makes it equally worthless as a standard Verizon BREW phone.


    Yeah, bit downside for me too, but I recognise that the bulk of the market
    doesnt add any of their own stuff to their phone or even to their laptop.

    >>> Not very cool at all.


    >> It is a pretty decent design, with some real lacks like
    >> not being able to run 3rd party apps, no removable
    >> battery, no SD card etc and the wrong cellphone network.


    > Well, I still don't like the design, at all. Its just too damned big for a phone,


    Maybe, but the common phones have screen too small for browsing etc.

    > and it fails as a complete PDA solution.


    Yes, but it does do some things quite well, particularly being a very
    decent platform for the sort of browsing you are likely to when out and
    about without the downside of the inconvenience of a laptop/notebook.

    I also dont like the lack of app accessible GPS either.

    Not real keen on their approach to the keyboard either, you cant
    see enough of the email you are replying to to be much use either.





  13. #73
    Rod Speed
    Guest

    Re: stop crying (was Re: Verizon Wireless thumbs its nose at the iPhone)

    Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:
    > At 01 Jul 2007 19:18:50 -0500 [email protected] wrote:
    >> They make/made a LOT more money selling media than they did the
    >> devices, though.

    >
    > Actually quite the opposite- by selling the downloads at 99-cents with
    > virtually no margin, iTunes is essentially a break-even operation
    > designed to support the sales of VERY profitable hardware.
    >
    > As you correctly point out, other manufacturers create superior spec'd
    > hardware at lower retail prices, yet iTunes helps insure that people
    > upgrade their old iPod with newer iPods rather than switch brands and
    > devalue their investment in iTunes downloads.


    True, they should have apps that move the itunes downloads to those devices.
    Technically very easy to do, you can do that manually if you know what you are doing.





  14. #74
    IMHO IIRC
    Guest

    Re: stop crying (was Re: Verizon Wireless thumbs its nose at the iPhone)

    In news:[email protected],
    Bill Gates <[email protected]> typed:
    > [email protected] (Matthew T. Russotto) wrote:
    >
    >>> Why the **** not? THEY [Apple] HAVE NEVER AT ANY POINT IN HISTORY EVER
    >>> ACTUALLY
    >>> HAD ANY SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF ANY MARKET THEY ARE A PART OF.

    >>
    >> Well, unless you count personal computers, PDAs, and portable digital
    >> music players. Keep on trollin', though.

    >
    > That's like saying the United State or Great Britain never had
    > significant marketshare of population, but oddly enough they still
    > control most of the world.
    >
    > Apple is the LEADER in most all high tech markets, sure their
    > marketshare is low, but you need to learn they OWN the TOP part of the
    > markets they control, (PC, PDA, Music, Video, Cell Phones, etc) everyone
    > else is a "Apple Wannabe".


    The Apple Newton and the Lisa computer really took over when they were
    introduced ;-)






  15. #75
    Kurt Ullman
    Guest

    Re: stop crying (was Re: Verizon Wireless thumbs its nose at the iPhone)

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:

    > At 01 Jul 2007 19:18:50 -0500 [email protected] wrote:
    > > They make/made a LOT more money selling media than they did the
    > > devices, though.

    >
    > Actually quite the opposite- by selling the downloads at 99-cents with
    > virtually no margin, iTunes is essentially a break-even operation
    > designed to support the sales of VERY profitable hardware.
    >


    According to teh National Association of Record Industry
    Professionals' (NARIP) figures, Apple keeps 34 cents of the 99 cents.
    Since all they really have as overhead is servers and cheap storage
    capacity, I would think they get to keep most of that.



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