Apple plans cheaper, Nano-based phone

Notan <notan@ddressthatcanbespammed> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Notan <notan@ddressthatcanbespammed> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Notan <notan@ddressthatcanbespammed> wrote
>>>>> Tim Streater wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
>>>>>>> Brian <[email protected]> wrote
>>>>>>>> [email protected] (Marc) wrote

>>>>>>>> Verizon is so-o-o-o-o-o-o-o screwed.

>>>>>>> Fantasy.

>>>>>>> The vast bulk of phone users want dirt cheap phones, you watch.

>>>>>>> The iphone is too big for anyone who doesnt want to browse the
>>>>>>> web and do email.

>>>>>> It seems to be about the same size as my PDA, which sits fine in
>>>>>> my pocket. Thing is, I don't need to spend that much on a phone.
>>>>>> I got a £50 pay as you go from Tesco and that does fine. No web
>>>>>> ****, no camera, no nothing. Just a freaking phone.

>>>>> There exists a huge number of people that prefer a *great* phone
>>>>> that *only* makes phone calls,

>>>> Bet there aint when the extras are free.

>>>>> over a *fairly good* phone that does a smattering of *everything*.

>>>> Usual mindless binary stuff. There's plenty of great phones that
>>>> make and receive phone calls well and do quite a bit of other
>>>> stuff as well.

>>>> Only a fool carts around a bag full of devices for the stuff that
>>>> doesnt get done much, but which is handy at times, even if its
>>>> just when some fool has run into your car etc.

>>> One thing that one has to consider is if you *need* all the extras, and one breaks, you've lost
>>> everything while the device is being repaired.

>> Fantasy. They dont get repaired anymore, they just get replaced,
>> so the single device that does it all just gets replaced, and when
>> thats a basic phone that happens to have a camera and media
>> player in it because those extras are effectively free, and its just
>> the cheapest viable phone you can find, thats a complete yawn.

>>> (Similar to purchasing an audio/video system...

>> Nope, nothing like it.

>>> If your all-in-one breaks, you're SOL during repairs, while separate
>>> components allow you to continue using the functioning components.)

>> Different matter entirely with a basic phone that happens to have a
>> camera and media player included effectively for free, which can be
>> handy when some fool runs into your car etc or you just see something
>> on offer and want to take a quick picture of it while you chase up
>> the alternatives when deciding if its the one to buy etc etc etc.

> "Effectively for free..."

> You're kidding, right?

Nope, thats what those are when its hard to find a phone without those now.

---

› See More: Apple plans cheaper, Nano-based phone

"Brian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<snip>
> Verizon is so-o-o-o-o-o-o-o screwed.

people don't switch to verizon because of the phones (they've had the worst
phones of the major providers for a looong time, although it's been getting
*much* better), but they do tend to stay because of the better coverage.
that's why verizon has such a lower churn rate than at&t / cingular. i know
when i switched to verizon, i was bummed about the phones (i had a ericsson
something or other wap phone w/ at&t waaay back in '99, then a nokia 8290,
then a sweeet t68i. then i switched to verizon, and the best phone they had
was some crappy kyocera. but the service was soooo much better).

In article <[email protected]>,
Larry <[email protected]> wrote:

> Shawn Hirn <[email protected]> wrote in news:srhi-4980DE.07221010072007
> @newsgroups.comcast.net:
>
> > That's illogical. Apple has a monopoly on the iPhone. Apple can set the
> > iPhone's price at whatever it wants regardless of the iPhone's supply.
> >
> >
>
> GM has a monopoly on Cadillac Escalades, too, but it cannot demand any
> price it wants for it because the market is FLOODED with Escalades selling
> far below its dream price.

Not quite. There are several other automobile companies who make
vehicles to compete with the Cadillac Escalade, such as the Ford
Expedition. If you have never seen an iPhone, you may not appreciate it,
but there is no company today who makes anything like the iPhone.
Companies such as RIM and Palm make smartphones, but they are nothing
like the iPhone.

The reason sales of the Escalade are not meeting GM's projections is
because of the high price of gas. The same situation is occurred with
the SUVs that GM's competitors manufacture. In contrast, sales of the
iPhone have well exceeded Apple's projections, from what I have read.

> So, as with every other new product, we create a shortage to maintain
> retail pricing until, at least, the richest and most drooling customers
> have paid full retail for it...and its sales go into the post-fascination
> slump every product, including this one, goes through. Then, prices will
> drop until sales pick up to a target level, again. Remember those big-
> screen $10,000 (various technology) TV sets Circuit City now sells for
> $1595? Same idea....


Not quite. Part of the drop in price comes from economies of scale that
are obtained by being able to order more parts in greater volumes. There
is some credence though to your claim that prices go down when people
stop drooling at new products, but mainly the price falls when a
competing product enters the market, which has not happened with the
iPhone ... yet.

In article <[email protected]>,
Larry <[email protected]> wrote:

> Shawn Hirn <[email protected]> wrote in news:srhi-CC54CA.07203810072007
> @newsgroups.comcast.net:
>
> > there are a hell of a lot of new
> > functions that can be added by third-party developers via Web 2,
> > although I for one would like to see Apple open up the full API. In
> > fact, it wouldn't surprise me if some enterprising software developer
> > figures out how to get at the full API without Apple's help. That
> person
> > will be wealthy, as a result.
> >
>
> I held one in the deserted ATT store across from Northwoods Mall in N
> Charleston, SC, one of three on a little display to "make 'em drool over
> something they can't have". It's cute, too small to watch movies on, has
> crappy audio without earphones and is too BIG for a cellphone. I saw my
> reflection in the window making a call and I looked really stupid holding
> a Palm Pilot to my ear talking to it...(c;

You are directing your comments to someone who has also seen the iPhone
and decided not to buy one. I don't think comparing its size to a cell
phone makes sense though because its not a cell phone. The iPhone is a
smartphone and compared to other smartphones, its a reasonable size.

Marc wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Because of the anticipated lower price, 2008 sales of 30 million to 40
> million units “is achievable,” Chang said.
>
> This would be a much larger volume than is expected of the first iPhone,
> Apple has targeted sales of 10 million units in 2008, which would give it a
> 1 percent share of the global market.
>
>
>

Uh... just how many ATT/Cingular customers are there? If anywhere near
30-40 million+, can the vast majority really be expected to switch from
subsidized, almost-free phones to $300+/- phones??? Or are other
carriers and countries going to be offering other markets? Do those
numbers really make sense?

If I read the 2nd quoted paragraph correctly, it seems Apple expects to
sell 10 million (original?) iPhones in 2008, which would have to be a
substantial portion of the ATT/Cingular customer base, and then 30-40
million more for the "Nano-phone"?

I think it will be informative to see how long the initial sales pace
can continue until most of the potential iPhone customers have made
their purchases. It seems to me likely that the sales curve will look
something like a huge spike in these first weeks followed by the steep
downslope of a drastic fall-off.

Time will tell...

ROC

Shawn Hirn <[email protected]> wrote
> Larry <[email protected]> wrote
>> Shawn Hirn <[email protected]> wrote

>>> That's illogical. Apple has a monopoly on the iPhone. Apple can set the
>>> iPhone's price at whatever it wants regardless of the iPhone's supply.

>> GM has a monopoly on Cadillac Escalades, too, but it cannot
>> demand any price it wants for it because the market is FLOODED
>> with Escalades selling far below its dream price.

> Not quite. There are several other automobile companies who make
> vehicles to compete with the Cadillac Escalade, such as the Ford
> Expedition. If you have never seen an iPhone, you may not appreciate
> it, but there is no company today who makes anything like the iPhone.

Pig ignorant lie.

> Companies such as RIM and Palm make smartphones,
> but they are nothing like the iPhone.

Pig ignorant lie.

> The reason sales of the Escalade are not meeting GM's projections is
> because of the high price of gas. The same situation is occurred with
> the SUVs that GM's competitors manufacture. In contrast, sales of the
> iPhone have well exceeded Apple's projections, from what I have read.

Its just a tad cheaper than an Escalade too.

>> So, as with every other new product, we create a shortage to
>> maintain retail pricing until, at least, the richest and most drooling
>> customers have paid full retail for it...and its sales go into the
>> post-fascination slump every product, including this one, goes
>> through. Then, prices will drop until sales pick up to a target
>> level, again. Remember those big- screen $10,000 (various
>> technology) TV sets Circuit City now sells for $1595? Same idea....

> Not quite. Part of the drop in price comes from economies of scale
> that are obtained by being able to order more parts in greater volumes.

That aint the reason for that drop.

> There is some credence though to your claim that prices go down
> when people stop drooling at new products, but mainly the price
> falls when a competing product enters the market, which has not
> happened with the iPhone ... yet.

Pig ignorant lie.

none wrote:
> CC56 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Awesome Dude. I'm sure you'll be the only one in your 6'th grade class
> > with an iPhone.
>
> not in the area i live in, there will be hundreds of iphones in K-12 by
> the end of the month, here are just two 7th graders in the iphone line

And then Tommy Tucker the bully punches the kid in the face and takes
it. Any sane parent would NOT send their kid to school with a $500+
gizmo. Several years ago, kids were getting stabbed over Pokemon
*trading cards*!

In article <[email protected]>,
rocxspam <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> I think it will be informative to see how long the initial sales pace
> can continue until most of the potential iPhone customers have made
> their purchases. It seems to me likely that the sales curve will look
> something like a huge spike in these first weeks followed by the steep
> downslope of a drastic fall-off.
>
> Time will tell...
>
> ROC

Past experience with consumer electronics in general would suggest
that we will see another, most likely smaller, pop around Christmas.

In article
<kurtullman-71CBD5.07511211072007@customer-201-125-217-207.uninet.net.mx
>,
Kurt Ullman <[email protected]> wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> rocxspam <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> > I think it will be informative to see how long the initial sales pace
> > can continue until most of the potential iPhone customers have made
> > their purchases. It seems to me likely that the sales curve will look
> > something like a huge spike in these first weeks followed by the steep
> > downslope of a drastic fall-off.
> >
> > Time will tell...
> >
> > ROC
>
> Past experience with consumer electronics in general would suggest
> that we will see another, most likely smaller, pop around Christmas.

I agree; I would be very surprised if Apple doesn't offer a cheaper
iPhone model in a few months, as well as an iPod only model that uses
the same touch screen technology. Since Apple is giving away an iPod
nano free to each student who buys a laptop now, its also a dead
giveaway that Apple intends to upgrade the iPod nano by September. Apple
has done the same thing, each of the past two years.

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:

> I dont consider the iphone a smartphone at all because you cant load
> or run apps on it.

Sure you can; the apps are Web 2 apps; besides, a Smartphone gets its
name from the functions it can perform out of the box; not due to its
ability to run third party apps. Out of the box, the iPhone runs rings
around any other smartphone.

Excuse the occasional top-post. I didn't want anyone to miss this:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/4954824.html


On 7/10/07 2:23 PM, in article
[email protected], "none" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> and
>>> didn't sense any hype at all during the day.
>>
>> No, no hype whatsoever. Nah.
>>
>> The fact that you, a brain-dead member of the sheeple population, didn't
>> "sense" any hype--yeah, that's proof all right.
>
> actually Apple users are some of the most rational, conservative people
> in the world. just look at the word "hype" for a second....
>
> hype: (h®©p)
>
> 1. Excessive publicity and the ensuing commotion.
>
> Apple did none of that.
>
> 2. Exaggerated or extravagant claims made especially in advertising
> or promotional material: ³It is pure hype, a gigantic PR job² (Saturday
> Review).
>
> Apple did none of that.
>
> 3. An advertising or promotional ploy: ³Some restaurant owners in
> town are cooking up a $75,000 hype to promote New York as ŒRestaurant
> City, U.S.A.¹² (New York).
>
> Apple did none of that.
>
> 4. Something deliberately misleading; a deception: ³[He] says that
> there isn't any energy crisis at all, that it's all a hype, to maintain
> outrageous profits for the oil companies² (Joel Oppenheimer).
>
> Apple did none of that.
>
> ----
>
> apple certainly didn't "hype" the product, we all know that. look at the
> ads, there is NO HYPE in any of them. "this is how you turn it on". "and
> this is how you answer a call", etc, etc... that's not hype in the
> slightest.
>
> apple never mislead anyone on the iPhone, everything they have said...
> it does.
>
> sounds like you are jealous that apple created the No. 1 smart phone in
> the world, with NO hype. They just used facts, and everyone that has one
> is amazed by this phone... and that is 10 years ahead of anyone else.
>
> a 160dpi screen, wow, nobody does that!
>
> -

[email protected] wrote:

> > > Awesome Dude. I'm sure you'll be the only one in your 6'th grade class
> > > with an iPhone.
> >
> > not in the area i live in, there will be hundreds of iphones in K-12 by
> > the end of the month, here are just two 7th graders in the iphone line
>
> And then Tommy Tucker the bully punches the kid in the face and takes
> it. Any sane parent would NOT send their kid to school with a $500+
> gizmo. Several years ago, kids were getting stabbed over Pokemon
> *trading cards*!

you must live in a uncivilized location, something like that wouldn't
happen here since all the kids are wealthy and highly educated.

Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:

> > first cell device to use Coverflow - that's very new.
>
> True- it's pretty, but it isn't a new FUNCTION. All music-playing phones
> let you choose content by "album" or "artist." New look, old function.

it's a new function, you haven't been able to "flick" through your
albums with a finger before.

> This seems to be the theme of these online "debates" over iPhone's
> merits. The pro-iPhone crowd confuses new methodology with new
> functionality, and the anti-iPhone crowd dismisses new interface and
> design far to easily, since ease-of-use is critical in the actual use of
> all of these "new" feature that aren't really new.

yes, what i've noticed it's really a debate between people that have and
use the iphone against those that have never touched one.

> > first cell device to be directly linked to YouTube - that's very new.
>
> YouTube launched a mobile service just prior to the iPhone launch.
> (m.youtube.com) making YouTube available on many mobiles now. Arguably,
> the creation of their mobile service was in preparation for the iPhone,
> so thanks for that! ;-)

yes, no problem.

> > first cell device to show the Actual Web - that's very new.
>
> Except for flash/java. It's closer than most devices, but still not the
> "actual web."

it has java... just not flash since it's obsolete and eats batteries.

> > first cell device to have your actual emails - that's very new.
>
> Huh? HTML e-mail has been available on other devices. I've had it for
> over a year, although admittedly I needed third-party software (the free
> QMail) on my WM phone. Now I have it natively (WM6) via software update
> as well.

not "real mail", the email on my iphone is indistinguishable from my
computer email. it looks and acts the same, and that's a first for a
phone.

> > > Play online games....no, also forbidden
> >
> > you got one right! no games sorry, kiddos... i guess this is a big
> > person's toy.
>
> While the anti-iPhone posts here have been ridiculous, it's equally
> ridiculous to dismiss as feature the iPhone lacks as unimportant or
> useless. A lot of adults play mobile games as well.

yes, games could come to the iphone, but gosh it does a ton of stuff
already, so i'm sure adding that was pretty far down the list.

> Besides, you can't have it both ways- it doesn't have games, so it's not
> for kids- it doesn't have full Exchange support, so it's not for
> business. Who then is it for? Unemployed adults?

i'm sure the ipod version will have games, and steve has already said,
more complete exchange support is coming.

> > > Run Windoze software....oops, sorry.
> >
> > and why would you ever want to do that?
>
> Agreed- it has it's own perfectly good OS. Imagine the possibilities if
> an SDK is ever released!

yes, and it's entirely possible at some future point, but i think apple
was smart to make sure it's highly reliable. which it is.

> > > Run MAC software....no, it doesn't do that, either, I'm told.
> >
> > ah, it runs Mac software, what do you think each of those buttons does?
>
> Runs _iPhone_ software- not _Mac_ software, otherwise Safari would hook
> flash and java support and download it, like a Mac can. It's not a Mac,
> and it isn't running Mac software- unless Macs are now using ARM-based
> processors...

fair enough, outside of safari and mail, it probably more fitting to
say it runs "widgets".

> > > Do Palm Pilot "things"....no, no, that's not new any more
> >
> > like what?
>
> Isn't syncing one-way on iPhone? (I'm asking- I haven't used on yet.)
> Do contact and calendar changes upload to your computer?

yes, data goes both ways. kinda fun that hasn't been reported anywhere
that i've seen.... if you open iPhoto, the iPhone shows up and you can
pull in your camera images.

> > > Hmm...It's not a HDTV....
> >
> > It's actually higher quality than HDTV, a 1660dpi screen, the first of
> > any cell phone.
>
> Huh? How does 1660dpi come out to 320x480 unless the iPhone screen is
> 1/3"?

my bad, 160dpi

> The iPhone resolution of 320x480 is certainly sufficient, however VGA
> phones (640x480) predate the iPhone (ETEN makes a WM PPC phone for
> Euro/Asian markets with a 3.5" VGA screen.) I'm happy enough with 320x240,
> but more is always nicer.
>
> > I just put real time, moving radar on mine. How about your cell phone,
> > can it do this?
> >
> > http://apple.accuweather.com/widget/iphone1/iphone.html
> >
> > Nope!
>
> Animated radar maps hav been available on WAP browsers for years, and
> downloadable apps (generally not free, however) have displayed it on PPCs
> and Treos for quite some time. Sadly, it seems, this is another example
> of "making it easy makes it new." How many current "dumb-phone" users
> know the wealth of easy-to-receive information that's been available on
> their phones for years?

but those are special apps on those phones, these are simple webpages.
agree that most dumb phone don't use or don't even know about these
extra features, the iphone's simplicity allows for more discovery, so it
should help.

> > So Larry, we have now discovered you are an idiot. Thanks for letting
> > us know.
>
> Larry is just making a semi-valid point. The iPhone is certainly
> breaking some ground in ease of use, but it doesn't actually DO anything
> that hasn't been done before.

except for a multi-touch display, ambient light sensor, accelerometer,
high rez screen, real time google maps, ipod, the real web, etc.

> It's the iPod all over again- existing technology made easier. There's
> nothing wrong with that- it's a perfectly laudable goal in and of itself.
> I just remember watching the Pirates/calamari iPhone commercial a few
> weeks ago and my wife saying "your phone does all that, doesn't it?" The
> irony was
> that I had to tell her "so does yours!" (She has a T-Mobile Dash- a WM
> Smartphone with a "hard" keyboard rather than a touchscreen.)
>
> I'd bet she'd like the iPhone- if only AT&T had coverage where we live...

fair enough, and while her phone doesn't do what the calamari ad does,
at least with just touches of a finger, you can, with some work make it
sorta do it. sure, at some point the iphone will expand to other
carriers, for now att wins the prize.

hopefully we'll see an iPod with WiFi, ichat/skype features and
everything but the old fashioned cell phone portion.

-

In article <[email protected]>,
none <[email protected]> wrote:


>
> yes, what i've noticed it's really a debate between people that have and
> use the iphone against those that have never touched one.

I think it goes a little deeper in that it seems to be between those
that were destined to have an iPhone (Apple fan or just a need for the
latest UberGeek gadget) and those would go back to strings and tins cans
before they would ever touch anything with the Apple logo on it.
Of course this leaves the majority who really don't care either way,
mildly amused about the hooha..

none wrote:
> CC56 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Awesome Dude. I'm sure you'll be the only one in your 6'th grade class
>> with an iPhone.
>
> not in the area i live in, there will be hundreds of iphones in K-12 by
> the end of the month, here are just two 7th graders in the iphone line
> that bought 2 each.
>
> http://homepage.mac.com/alchemy8/general.jpg
>
> i think you forget there is a more intelligent world out there, also a
> wealthier world... which you might not be apart of because you have set
> lower standards for yourself.
>
> -
Really? I would be quite surprised if a lot of those show off purchases
by "intelligent" people weren't made using a CC and being paid off in 99
easy payments plus interest and penalties.