Skype comes to the iPhone

iPhone fans are set have their wish granted, with the news that a German
firm has developed an application that brings Skype functionality to the
device.

One of the complaints that users of the hybrid phone and MP3 player had
was relating to its instant messaging functionality, or lack thereof.
German firm Shape Media has stepped in to fill the gap.

The application, dubbed "IM+ for Skype", transforms the iPhone into a
Skype handset. The web application, which works through the iPhone's
Safari web browser, allows iPhones to use the Skype messaging service
along with its Voice over IP (VoIP) network.

By logging on to skypeforiphone.com, users can access their Skype
account, allowing them to make free Skype to Skype calls, and use their
SkypeOut credits to make calls to landlines and mobile phones around the
world. According to Shape Media, the application will work across
different networks and does not require Wi-Fi to operate.

more here:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/08...ype_on_iphone/


(this link only works with safari / safari for iphone)

http://skypeforiphone.com/index_iphone.jsp

---

› See More: Skype comes to the iPhone

"Oxford" <[email protected]> wrote:
> iPhone fans are set have their wish granted, with the news that a German
> firm has developed an application that brings Skype functionality to the
> device.
>

It doesn't bring any Skype functionality other than IM. You can't make calls
with using Skype directly, you need to have Skype call you back on your
cellphone, and it conferences in the other party. Crude and not cost
effective--yes, even for international calls.


--
Mike

"Tinman" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Oxford" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > iPhone fans are set have their wish granted, with the news that a German
> > firm has developed an application that brings Skype functionality to the
> > device.
> >
>
> It doesn't bring any Skype functionality other than IM. You can't make calls
> with using Skype directly, you need to have Skype call you back on your
> cellphone, and it conferences in the other party. Crude and not cost
> effective--yes, even for international calls.

ah, no. it gives you full call capability, that's the point.

"It is web service that allows you to enjoy Skype functionality on your
iPhone. You may stay online no matter where you are, chat with your
friends and colleagues and call/receive calls at a low cost"

it's doing the call transfer on the backend, not through the iphone,
otherwise it's the same as normal skype.

http://wap.shapeservices.com/iphone/info.php

At 16 Aug 2007 14:27:40 -0600 Oxford wrote:

> ah, no. it gives you full call capability, that's the point.

Actually, it's a big, fat kludge, at least as far as Voice calls are
concerned.

A web service that arranges a callback to ANY telephone number and
charges you twice for one call? There's nothing special about the iPhone
that makes this service happen, except they block non-Safari access to
try and convince you this crummy service is somehow using the iPhone for
something other than submitting a javascript form over the web!

As far as "full call capability" I don't see anything on the website that
allows you to get INCOMING Skype calls on your iPhone, (but I might have
missed it.)

> "It is web service that allows you to enjoy Skype functionality on your
> iPhone. You may stay online no matter where you are, chat with your
> friends and colleagues and call/receive calls at a low cost"

Not THAT low...

From the webpage you pointed us to below:

"Why do I need to have SkypeOut to talk to my Skype contacts?
"SkypeOut is used to call your number back. Please read our FAQ section
to learn why..."

So, it's charging YOU (against your SkypeOut credit) to connect the call
from their service to your iPhone (or any phone you select.)

So, in effect, any Skype to Skype call is no longer free (it's charged at
Skype-Out rates to your iPhone - $0.021/min. plus a 4-cent connection fee)
and an actual Skype-Out (Skype to landline/mobile) call will cost double
or more. ($0.021/min for the callback to you, the SkypeOut rate for
whatever country you call, and the 4-cent connection fee.)

From http://wap.shapeservices.com/iphone/save.php :

"Example 2: Call from UK Vodafone phone to landline in USA
"Let's say Mary is on IM+ for Skype, lives in UK and her carrier is
Vodafone. Mary wants to call her college friend who lives in USA, Florida
to her phone number. To calculate the SkypeOut rate, just add the
destination rate for calling to to UK Vodafone (€ 0.205) and the
destination rate to call to USA (€ 0.017). So the rate to call from USA
to UK via IM+ is € 0.222 per minute plus the connection fee rate (€
0.039)."


> it's doing the call transfer on the backend, not through the iphone,


Transfer? There's no "transfer"- it's connecting two separate calls
together, and you're paying for both of them! The only magic here (vs..
any other web-based callback service) is their ability to siphon money
out of your Skype account automatically, rather than forcing you open an
acoount with them. Seems like a more polished version of the kludgy
"Skype hack" announced a few days after the iPhone launch.

> otherwise it's the same as normal skype.

No, it's a pathetic workaround for devices that can't run a Skype client,
and it's not even a good one!

Like with most of our "revolutionary" iPhone conversations, you ignore
the fact that this too, is nothing new. You want Skype on your iPhone?
I'll give you two better solutions for the price of one:

For ease of use and low cost (free!) there's Mobivox (www.mobivox.com.)
It allows one to call their Skype contacts for free from ANY landline or
cellphone (using just airtime, obviously) without ANY software. This
makes a call fromm iPhone-to-Skype contact free, and, as a bonus, no web-
interface is needed. (It's a voice-controlled service available by a
simple outgoing phone call.)

For those who want to do the work themselves, there are all kinds of USB
Skype "Callboxes" that connect to your PC and your landline. You call
your landline from your cellphone and it allows you to call your contacts
through Skype using your PC. They can also connect incoming Skype calls
to your mobile through your landline.

That covers cheaper ways to call Skype contacts (free vs. SkypeOut rate.)
Now for international calls, SkypeForIphone loses again- for
international calls you'd be better off with either of the aforementioned
Mobivox or USB solutions, or a low-cost "pinless" calling card that
recognizes your iPhone's CID (like OneSuite.com offers), or a "cellular-
to-VoIP bridge" service like Voicestick provides.

SkypeforIphone seems like a Skype app developer is trying to cash in
before anyone figures out a better (or actually, a "real") way to do it.



--

"I don't need my cell phone to play video games or take pictures
or double as a Walkie-Talkie; I just need it to work. Thanks for
all the bells and whistles, but I could communicate better with
ACTUAL bells and whistles." -Bill Maher 9/25/2003

Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:

> At 16 Aug 2007 14:27:40 -0600 Oxford wrote:
>
> > ah, no. it gives you full call capability, that's the point.
>
> Actually, it's a big, fat kludge, at least as far as Voice calls are
> concerned.
>
> A web service that arranges a callback to ANY telephone number and
> charges you twice for one call? There's nothing special about the iPhone
> that makes this service happen, except they block non-Safari access to
> try and convince you this crummy service is somehow using the iPhone for
> something other than submitting a javascript form over the web!
>
> As far as "full call capability" I don't see anything on the website that
> allows you to get INCOMING Skype calls on your iPhone, (but I might have
> missed it.)
>
> > "It is web service that allows you to enjoy Skype functionality on your
> > iPhone. You may stay online no matter where you are, chat with your
> > friends and colleagues and call/receive calls at a low cost"
>
> Not THAT low...
>
> From the webpage you pointed us to below:
>
> "Why do I need to have SkypeOut to talk to my Skype contacts?
> "SkypeOut is used to call your number back. Please read our FAQ section
> to learn why..."
>
> So, it's charging YOU (against your SkypeOut credit) to connect the call
> from their service to your iPhone (or any phone you select.)
>
> So, in effect, any Skype to Skype call is no longer free (it's charged at
> Skype-Out rates to your iPhone - $0.021/min. plus a 4-cent connection fee)
> and an actual Skype-Out (Skype to landline/mobile) call will cost double
> or more. ($0.021/min for the callback to you, the SkypeOut rate for
> whatever country you call, and the 4-cent connection fee.)
>
> From http://wap.shapeservices.com/iphone/save.php :
>
> "Example 2: Call from UK Vodafone phone to landline in USA
> "Let's say Mary is on IM+ for Skype, lives in UK and her carrier is
> Vodafone. Mary wants to call her college friend who lives in USA, Florida
> to her phone number. To calculate the SkypeOut rate, just add the
> destination rate for calling to to UK Vodafone (€ 0.205) and the
> destination rate to call to USA (€ 0.017). So the rate to call from USA
> to UK via IM+ is € 0.222 per minute plus the connection fee rate (€
> 0.039)."
>
> > it's doing the call transfer on the backend, not through the iphone,
>
> Transfer? There's no "transfer"- it's connecting two separate calls
> together, and you're paying for both of them! The only magic here (vs.
> any other web-based callback service) is their ability to siphon money
> out of your Skype account automatically, rather than forcing you open an
> acoount with them. Seems like a more polished version of the kludgy
> "Skype hack" announced a few days after the iPhone launch.
>
> > otherwise it's the same as normal skype.
>
> No, it's a pathetic workaround for devices that can't run a Skype client,
> and it's not even a good one!
>
> Like with most of our "revolutionary" iPhone conversations, you ignore
> the fact that this too, is nothing new. You want Skype on your iPhone?
> I'll give you two better solutions for the price of one:
>
> For ease of use and low cost (free!) there's Mobivox (www.mobivox.com.)
> It allows one to call their Skype contacts for free from ANY landline or
> cellphone (using just airtime, obviously) without ANY software. This
> makes a call fromm iPhone-to-Skype contact free, and, as a bonus, no web-
> interface is needed. (It's a voice-controlled service available by a
> simple outgoing phone call.)
>
> For those who want to do the work themselves, there are all kinds of USB
> Skype "Callboxes" that connect to your PC and your landline. You call
> your landline from your cellphone and it allows you to call your contacts
> through Skype using your PC. They can also connect incoming Skype calls
> to your mobile through your landline.
>
> That covers cheaper ways to call Skype contacts (free vs. SkypeOut rate.)
> Now for international calls, SkypeForIphone loses again- for
> international calls you'd be better off with either of the aforementioned
> Mobivox or USB solutions, or a low-cost "pinless" calling card that
> recognizes your iPhone's CID (like OneSuite.com offers), or a "cellular-
> to-VoIP bridge" service like Voicestick provides.
>
> SkypeforIphone seems like a Skype app developer is trying to cash in
> before anyone figures out a better (or actually, a "real") way to do it.

Sounds like Todd Allcock is VERY SCARED of this much cheaper service.
Prices are about 1/5th what it cost to make a Cell Call. No wonder he is
scared!

and an error...

you said: plus a 4-cent connection fee <--
when really it's connection fee rate 0.039 cent connection fee <--

At 16 Aug 2007 17:36:12 -0600 Oxford wrote:
> Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:


> Sounds like Todd Allcock is VERY SCARED of this much cheaper service.
> Prices are about 1/5th what it cost to make a Cell Call.
Because it's cheaper than a cellphone call it's ok to be gouged by this
crappy workaround service?

I've already pointed out how to get the same, (or better) level of
service both using Skype, or other alternatives on your iPhone for half
the price (or less) than using SkypeForIPhone.com. Sorry to try to save
you a few bucks.

> No wonder he is
> scared!


Um, just the opposite. I currently have three VoIP providers on my
cellphone as we speak. Skype for free outgoing calls, using Skype for
Windows Mobile, Freedigits.com for free incoming calls using Windows
Mobile 6's seamless integrated SIP client, and I also use Voicestick via
Cell-to-VoIP bridging for overseas calls (it's cheaper than Skype and has
no connection fees.)

> and an error...
>
> you said: plus a 4-cent connection fee <--
> when really it's connection fee rate 0.039 cent connection fee <--

Yeah, you got me- I rounded up 1/10 of a cent. I assume you pointed that
out because it was the only error you could find in my post.

If SkypeForIPhone is the best developers can do with Safari, someone
better wrap both hands around Jobs' black turtleneck and squeeze hard
until he agrees to release an SDK!



--

"I don't need my cell phone to play video games or take pictures
or double as a Walkie-Talkie; I just need it to work. Thanks for
all the bells and whistles, but I could communicate better with
ACTUAL bells and whistles." -Bill Maher 9/25/2003

"Todd Allcock" wrote:
> At 16 Aug 2007 17:36:12 -0600 Oxford wrote:
>> Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> Sounds like Todd Allcock is VERY SCARED of this much cheaper service.
>> Prices are about 1/5th what it cost to make a Cell Call.
> Because it's cheaper than a cellphone call it's ok to be gouged by this
> crappy workaround service?

Todd, don't bother trying to argue with this idiot. He displays no ability
to reason.


>> you said: plus a 4-cent connection fee <--
>> when really it's connection fee rate 0.039 cent connection fee <--
>
> Yeah, you got me- I rounded up 1/10 of a cent. I assume you pointed that
> out because it was the only error you could find in my post.

And then he pulls idiotic stunts like this.


>
> If SkypeForIPhone is the best developers can do with Safari, someone
> better wrap both hands around Jobs' black turtleneck and squeeze hard
> until he agrees to release an SDK!

Don't go by the Web app crap.

Believe it or not the number of native apps has been increasing daily--the
slow trickle is turning into a steady stream. Despite the lack of an SDK, I
have gotten my iPhone out of Steve's "jail" and have installed several
useful apps. The most useful, though, is Installer. This lets one easily
install apps--real apps, not Web apps--via WiFi or EDGE. Works *great* and
the list of apps available through it has been growing steadily.

I have installed an iPhone binkit, SSH, a nice voice recorder (that can
transfer memos to visual voicemail or email), several file browsers, several
terminal apps (let me access my iPhone--on the iPhone--via command line), a
screen shot utility, ebook reader, text adventure game engine, NES emulator
(that is updated daily--it is now quite playable indeed), and the native
game LightsOff.

As I type this I have two SSH sessions (into my iPhone via WiFi) open on my
PC. I can browser the entire phone's contents--and there is far more on the
iPhone, OS-wise, than I have ever seen on a mobile phone before. While not a
full version of OSX, 700 MB is still a lot for a mobile device. I can do
this from my PC without affecting the iPhone's operation (e.g., I can be
using the iPhone to make calls while using SCP to transfer files to and
fro).

So while I definitely want an SDK ASAP, the lack of it is not stopping
native development. The big issue of course is that it requires "hacking"
and that is not something many users will be comfortable doing.


--
Mike

At 17 Aug 2007 09:12:18 -0700 Tinman wrote:

> Todd, don't bother trying to argue with this idiot. He displays no
ability
> to reason.

But it's such fun...


> Don't go by the Web app crap.
>
> Believe it or not the number of native apps has been increasing
daily--the
> slow trickle is turning into a steady stream. Despite the lack of
an SDK, I
> have gotten my iPhone out of Steve's "jail" and have installed
several
> useful apps. The most useful, though, is Installer. This lets one
easily
> install apps--real apps, not Web apps--via WiFi or EDGE. Works
*great* and
> the list of apps available through it has been growing steadily.


Cool. I guess this is why I'm stymied why Apple is trying to control
development. There are plenty of smart developers out there
determined to program this thing by trial and error if need be! If
there are going to be apps anyway, why not release an SDK|and insure
those apps do everything "properly."

> I have installed an iPhone binkit, SSH, a nice voice recorder (that
can
> transfer memos to visual voicemail or email), several file
browsers, several
> terminal apps (let me access my iPhone--on the iPhone--via command
line), a
> screen shot utility, ebook reader, text adventure game engine, NES
emulator
> (that is updated daily--it is now quite playable indeed), and the
native
> game LightsOff.
>
> As I type this I have two SSH sessions (into my iPhone via WiFi)
open on my
> PC. I can browser the entire phone's contents--and there is far
more on the
> iPhone, OS-wise, than I have ever seen on a mobile phone before.
While not a
> full version of OSX, 700 MB is still a lot for a mobile device. I
can do
> this from my PC without affecting the iPhone's operation (e.g., I
can be
> using the iPhone to make calls while using SCP to transfer files to
and
> fro).

Very cool.

> So while I definitely want an SDK ASAP, the lack of it is not
stopping
> native development. The big issue of course is that it requires
"hacking"
> and that is not something many users will be comfortable doing.

True, but again, if the lack of an SDK is supposedly to protect the
"stability" of the device, you'd think forcing smart people to
"guess" will lead to lot less staility than just releasing the "rule
book."

I had no idea all this was going on. Thanks for the heads up! I
might have to take another look at the iPhone...


--

"I don't need my cell phone to play video games or take pictures
or double as a Walkie-Talkie; I just need it to work. Thanks for
all the bells and whistles, but I could communicate better with
ACTUAL bells and whistles." -Bill Maher 9/25/2003

"Tinman" <[email protected]> wrote:

> >> Sounds like Todd Allcock is VERY SCARED of this much cheaper service.
> >> Prices are about 1/5th what it cost to make a Cell Call.
> > Because it's cheaper than a cellphone call it's ok to be gouged by this
> > crappy workaround service?
>
> Todd, don't bother trying to argue with this smart guy. He displays no ability
> to reason.

yes, I'm just a bit too ahead of the curve for Todd to see what is
happening to his industry.

> >> you said: plus a 4-cent connection fee <--
> >> when really it's connection fee rate 0.039 cent connection fee <--
> >
> > Yeah, you got me- I rounded up 1/10 of a cent. I assume you pointed that
> > out because it was the only error you could find in my post.
>
> And then he pulls idiotic stunts like this.

it's MUCH more than a 1/10th of a cent. Do the math. 4.00 Cents is a
long way from 0.039 Cents. Todd is extremely scared about the iPhone and
VoIP. You can see it in his posts, so let's all laugh together at Todd
and his future! BYE BYE "for pay" CELL PHONES!

> > If SkypeForIPhone is the best developers can do with Safari, someone
> > better wrap both hands around Jobs' black turtleneck and squeeze hard
> > until he agrees to release an SDK!
>
> Don't go by the Web app crap.

Correct, this is just an example of what is to come. It's freaking Todd
out, which is quite funny, but I'd understand if your industry was about
to be wiped out by one single product, the iPhone.

> Believe it or not the number of native apps has been increasing daily--the
> slow trickle is turning into a steady stream. Despite the lack of an SDK, I
> have gotten my iPhone out of Steve's "jail" and have installed several
> useful apps. The most useful, though, is Installer. This lets one easily
> install apps--real apps, not Web apps--via WiFi or EDGE. Works *great* and
> the list of apps available through it has been growing steadily.

Correct, the number of iPhone apps is soaring, it will have more Apps
than MS Mobile by the end of 2008, Xcode ensures that.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/developertools/

> I have installed an iPhone binkit, SSH, a nice voice recorder (that can
> transfer memos to visual voicemail or email), several file browsers, several
> terminal apps (let me access my iPhone--on the iPhone--via command line), a
> screen shot utility, ebook reader, text adventure game engine, NES emulator
> (that is updated daily--it is now quite playable indeed), and the native
> game LightsOff.
>
> As I type this I have two SSH sessions (into my iPhone via WiFi) open on my
> PC. I can browser the entire phone's contents--and there is far more on the
> iPhone, OS-wise, than I have ever seen on a mobile phone before. While not a
> full version of OSX, 700 MB is still a lot for a mobile device. I can do
> this from my PC without affecting the iPhone's operation (e.g., I can be
> using the iPhone to make calls while using SCP to transfer files to and
> fro).

Yes, it's an exciting time to be developing for the iPhone, no other
phone will ever have the amount of features that the iPhone has out of
the box, much less the huge installed base of wealthy customers. The
iPhone has been a major success so far, and that will only increase as
more Apps are developed. The Blackberry has pretty much died because of
the iPhone, and it's only been 40 days! WOW!

> So while I definitely want an SDK ASAP, the lack of it is not stopping
> native development. The big issue of course is that it requires "hacking"
> and that is not something many users will be comfortable doing.

Yes, and that will change over time, many things are waiting on the big
daddy of development and that's Leopard which will come out in October.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/

Then you'll have full Exchange support, Widget Support, more native
access to the iPhone's API's etc.

Todd is totally unaware of what Apple has in store for completely
altering the Cell Phone industry as the WORLD knows it... Can you say
VoIP over iChat? Yes..... and then you say FREE phone calls world wide.
All the "legacy" cell phone and landline connections NO LONGER MATTER
ONCE Apple turns on this switch.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/features/ichat.html

1 Billion iPhones by 2017? All talking for free through any standard
802.11 connection? Yep! Totally possible, the infrastructure is already
there. But only Todd is in the way. Poor Todd, his past isn't his future.

-

Oxford wrote:
> Todd is totally unaware of what Apple has in store for completely
> altering the Cell Phone industry as the WORLD knows it... Can you say
> VoIP over iChat? Yes..... and then you say FREE phone calls world wide.
> All the "legacy" cell phone and landline connections NO LONGER MATTER
> ONCE Apple turns on this switch.

Skype? Yeah...riiiiiight.

http://blog.tmcnet.com/blog/tom-keat...ype-outage.asp

August 16, 2007
Skype outage
Skype is experiencing a major outage.

On Aug 17, 1:39 pm, Oxford <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Tinman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >> Sounds like Todd Allcock is VERY SCARED of this much cheaper service.
> > >> Prices are about 1/5th what it cost to make a Cell Call.
> > > Because it's cheaper than a cellphone call it's ok to be gouged by this
> > > crappy workaround service?
>
> > Todd, don't bother trying to argue with this smart guy. He displays no ability
> > to reason.
>
> yes, I'm just a bit too ahead of the curve for Todd to see what is
> happening to his industry.
>
> > >> you said: plus a 4-cent connection fee <--
> > >> when really it's connection fee rate 0.039 cent connection fee <--
>
> > > Yeah, you got me- I rounded up 1/10 of a cent. I assume you pointed that
> > > out because it was the only error you could find in my post.
>
> > And then he pulls idiotic stunts like this.
>
> it's MUCH more than a 1/10th of a cent. Do the math. 4.00 Cents is a
> long way from 0.039 Cents.

it is, but skypeout fees are .039 Dollars, or ~4 cents, NOT .039
cents.

seems you're so far ahead of the curve you don't even use the service,
eh?

<snip>

>>>>> "Ox" == Oxford <[email protected]> writes:
Ox> it's MUCH more than a 1/10th of a cent. Do the math. 4.00
Ox> Cents is a long way from 0.039 Cents.

From http://www.skype.com/products/skypeout/:
Connection fee of 3.9’ charged for each call

In other words, $0.039 USD per call.

You can't even get this basic fact correct.
--
From the moment I picked your book up until I put it down I was
convulsed with laughter. Some day I intend reading it.
Groucho Marx

Bob Fry <[email protected]> wrote:

> From http://www.skype.com/products/skypeout/:
> Connection fee of 3.9’ charged for each call
>
> In other words, $0.039 USD per call.
>
> You can't even get this basic fact correct.

sorry Bob, but the article clearly stated:

$0.039 cents per connection.

here are the facts:

http://skypejournal.com/blog/2007/02..._live_ear.html

"Connection Fee. All Pro calls*charged $0.039*per call."

you and Mr. Allcock lose again.

ed <[email protected]> wrote:

> it is, but skypeout fees are .039 Dollars, or ~4 cents, NOT .039
> cents.
>
> seems you're so far ahead of the curve you don't even use the service,
> eh?

Ed, too bad the facts get in the way:

Connection Fee. All Pro calls*charged $0.039*per call.

http://skypejournal.com/blog/2007/02..._live_ear.html

Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:

> Cool. I guess this is why I'm stymied why Apple is trying to control
> development. There are plenty of smart developers out there
> determined to program this thing by trial and error if need be! If
> there are going to be apps anyway, why not release an SDK|and insure
> those apps do everything "properly."

because they know they will release a VoIP iChat client rendering all
other "attempts" useless. You don't understand Apple, that is clear.

> True, but again, if the lack of an SDK is supposedly to protect the
> "stability" of the device, you'd think forcing smart people to
> "guess" will lead to lot less staility than just releasing the "rule
> book."

yes, but it generally means Apple isn't ready to take a chance on a
developer screwing something up, or even more serious, a competitor
purposely mucking things up since they are scared of the iPhone.

> I had no idea all this was going on. Thanks for the heads up! I
> might have to take another look at the iPhone...

yes, the iPhone will be the primary cell / voip phone in the years to
come. Apple should have 30% of the cell / voip phone market within 3
years.

pretty cool if you want the best phone for the least cost on the market.