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  1. #1
    Mark Crispin
    Guest
    http://theinquirer.net/?article=42235

    So the sucker takes his iPhone toy with him on a Mediterranean cruise,
    and doesn't actually use it. Presumably, he had it with him just in case
    he got a call from home on his cell number -- that being the reason why
    most people take their US worldphones overseas.

    When he gets home, he's rewarded with a 54 page bill from AT&T for $4800,
    because the iPhone was updating its email in the background over expensive
    GPRS roaming.

    What do the fanboys say: "He shoulda turned the phone off if he wasn't
    using it." That misses the point of having your home country phone with
    you when overseas, which is to receive phone calls. It's supposed to be a
    phone.

    If he actually intended to use the phone overseas, he'd get a local prepay
    SIM card. But the iPhone is locked...oh dear, oh my...

    The hype and the glitter is starting to come off the 21st century Edsel.

    -- Mark --

    http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
    Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum.



    See More: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800




  2. #2
    Jonathan Kamens
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    This has nothing to do with the iPhone per se. The same thing
    could have happened with any BlackBerry or Windows Mobile
    device configured to download new email automatically. I
    don't know about the iPhone, but on my Windows Mobile device,
    I can turn off email updates without turning off telephone
    service. If he didn't want to pay to download email during
    his cruise, then he should have turned off email updates.

    The iPhone isn't responsible for the fact that some dweeb
    forgot to turn off email updates on his phone while roaming.

    --
    Help stop the genocide in Darfur!
    http://www.genocideintervention.net/



  3. #3
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    Mark Crispin wrote:
    > http://theinquirer.net/?article=42235
    >
    > So the sucker takes his iPhone toy with him on a Mediterranean cruise,
    > and doesn't actually use it. Presumably, he had it with him just in
    > case he got a call from home on his cell number -- that being the reason
    > why most people take their US worldphones overseas.
    >
    > When he gets home, he's rewarded with a 54 page bill from AT&T for
    > $4800, because the iPhone was updating its email in the background over
    > expensive GPRS roaming.
    >
    > What do the fanboys say: "He shoulda turned the phone off if he wasn't
    > using it." That misses the point of having your home country phone with
    > you when overseas, which is to receive phone calls. It's supposed to be
    > a phone.
    >
    > If he actually intended to use the phone overseas, he'd get a local
    > prepay SIM card. But the iPhone is locked...oh dear, oh my...


    Well now it's possible to unlock the iPhone to use prepaid SIM cards.
    Once you modify it, it's actually an ideal device to take with you
    traveling as it's a good small web access device over Wi-Fi. I use my
    old Toshiba PDA which doesn't have a great browser. The new iPod Touch
    is probably the best option for minimalist travelers that want a
    portable web browser, along with an unlocked quad band or 900/1800 GSM
    phone to use with prepaid SIM cards. I wish they hadn't removed
    BlueTooth from the Touch.

    That's a very bad design flaw to have it automatically do those updates.
    Many people don't mind some occasional international roaming when they
    initiate the call or choose to answer a call, but they don't expect the
    iPhone to "phone home" on its own.



  4. #4
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

    > Attention fanboys: HE DID TURN HIS PHONES OFF. The problem is, the
    > phones are NEVER OFF--only the display and touchscreen are powered off.
    > The guts of it continue to work AT ALL TIMES.


    LOL, now we know why they soldered in the battery!



  5. #5
    Oxford
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    In article <[email protected]>,
    SMS <[email protected]> wrote:

    > > If he actually intended to use the phone overseas, he'd get a local
    > > prepay SIM card. But the iPhone is locked...oh dear, oh my...

    >
    > Well now it's possible to unlock the iPhone to use prepaid SIM cards.
    > Once you modify it, it's actually an ideal device to take with you
    > traveling as it's a good small web access device over Wi-Fi. I use my
    > old Toshiba PDA which doesn't have a great browser. The new iPod Touch
    > is probably the best option for minimalist travelers that want a
    > portable web browser, along with an unlocked quad band or 900/1800 GSM
    > phone to use with prepaid SIM cards. I wish they hadn't removed
    > BlueTooth from the Touch.
    >
    > That's a very bad design flaw to have it automatically do those updates.
    > Many people don't mind some occasional international roaming when they
    > initiate the call or choose to answer a call, but they don't expect the
    > iPhone to "phone home" on its own.


    you can turn off iPhone's EDGE roaming when traveling overseas, just
    call AT&T and they will turn it off for you.

    and you can use any SIM Card...

    http://www.iphonesimfree.com/cgi-bin...e.pl?page=home

    where to buy:

    http://www.iphonesimfree.com/cgi-bin...ne.pl?page=buy



  6. #6
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    At 10 Sep 2007 08:15:39 -0700 Mark Crispin wrote:
    > http://theinquirer.net/?article=42235
    >
    > So the sucker takes his iPhone toy with him on a Mediterranean

    cruise,
    > and doesn't actually use it.


    Sure he did- he just didn't make any calls! ;-)

    > Presumably, he had it with him just in case he got a call from home
    > on his cell number -- that being the reason why most people take
    > their US worldphones overseas.


    True.


    > When he gets home, he's rewarded with a 54 page bill from AT&T for
    > $4800, because the iPhone was updating its email in the background
    > over expensive GPRS roaming.


    Yep. That's the reason I disable data on my phone when traveling
    overseas. I reenable it if necessary (I want to check e-mail when
    Wifi isn't available, for example) then disable it again.


    > What do the fanboys say: "He shoulda turned the phone off if he
    > wasn't using it."


    I'm certainly not a fanboy, and have given the iPhone a few solid
    knocks where I felt it deserved it, but please- how is this
    "sucker's" experience different from anyone who takes their world-
    band smartphone overseas and doesn't disable data? The guy next to
    him on the cruise with a Blackberry or Treo is getting hit with the
    same charges.

    The article stated they had three iPhones with them, and AT&T charges
    $25 for 20 MB of data when roaming in 29 countries (an excellent
    value compared to many carriers, BTW!)

    So, to run up $1600/phone, what the heck were these people receiving
    via e-mail? XP Service packs?


    > That misses the point of having your home country phone with you
    > when overseas, which is to receive phone calls. It's supposed to
    > be a phone.


    And it is. Turn off the cellular data! Many seasoned travelers also
    keep cheaper, "dumber" handsets for traveling, either for us with
    prepaid SIMs, or just to reduce risk of loss. I'd rather lose a $30
    GSM phone to damage or theft on vacation than a $400 one.

    > If he actually intended to use the phone overseas, he'd get a local
    > prepay SIM card.


    Really? I thought you just said "Presumably, he had it with him just
    in case he got a call from home on his cell number..." How does he
    remain available on his cell number if he replaces his SIM with a
    prepaid in each country he visits? Besides, Cruise lines don't offer
    SIMs. I suspect the majority of the charges were from the Cruise
    company's in-house system. (Which would likely not be part of the
    "preferred country" $25/20MB rate, but Cingular's default $30/mb
    rate.) Even if not, a Cruise ship tends to stop at a different port
    in a different country each day? How many ~$30 SIMs is he supposd to
    buy? How much vacation time is he supposed to waste hunting down
    mobile phone shops at each port of call?

    > But the iPhone is locked...oh dear, oh my...


    As are many phones. Again, any phone with an auto-updating e-mail
    client would have the same issue. The poor soul learned an expensive
    lesson which is worth repeating here not to slam the iPhone, but as a
    warning to any "newbie" traveling internationally with a smartphone.
    If you don't know how to manage your phone's data settings before
    leaving on a trip, ASK someone before you go!

    > The hype and the glitter is starting to come off the 21st century

    Edsel.


    I'm not sure which is worse on these NGs- the fanboys or their
    diametrically polarized opposites!

    Now if you want to bash the iPhone because of some deficiency of the
    PHONE, fine, but this was a deficiency of the "sucker's" knowledge,
    not his phone.

    Price of iPhone... $599

    Price of roaming data... $1600.

    Showing off your smug, perceived American superiority to Euopean
    cruisers by whipping out your iPhone on the top deck during
    shuffleboard... Priceless?


    --

    "I don't need my cell phone to play video games or take pictures
    or double as a Walkie-Talkie; I just need it to work. Thanks for
    all the bells and whistles, but I could communicate better with
    ACTUAL bells and whistles." -Bill Maher 9/25/2003





  7. #7
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    At 10 Sep 2007 09:16:18 -0700 SMS wrote:

    > That's a very bad design flaw to have it automatically do those
    > updates.


    One might argue that RIM created an entire business model out of just
    that "flaw." ;-)
    Automatic e-mail retrieval is a feature of virtually every high-end
    phone. This was an unfortunate case of user ignorance, not a failure
    of phone design.




    --

    "I don't need my cell phone to play video games or take pictures
    or double as a Walkie-Talkie; I just need it to work. Thanks for
    all the bells and whistles, but I could communicate better with
    ACTUAL bells and whistles." -Bill Maher 9/25/2003





  8. #8
    Dennis Ferguson
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    On 2007-09-10, Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:
    > The article stated they had three iPhones with them, and AT&T charges
    > $25 for 20 MB of data when roaming in 29 countries (an excellent
    > value compared to many carriers, BTW!)
    >
    > So, to run up $1600/phone, what the heck were these people receiving
    > via e-mail? XP Service packs?


    It isn't that excellent. The $25 is a recurring monthly charge
    which allows you to receive up to 20 MB in any one month for free.
    The overage charge on the plan is $0.005/kB, or $100 per 20 MB.

    If you aren't paying the $25 per month, or you are outside the 29
    countries, then the data charge is $0.0195/kB, or $400 per 20 MB.
    At that price it is fairly easy to see how one could run up a $1600
    bill without trying too hard.

    I wonder, is it easy to turn the data off on an iPhone while leaving
    the phone on? If not, that would be a design problem.

    Dennis Ferguson



  9. #9
    John B. Coarsey, PE
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800


    "Dennis Ferguson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On 2007-09-10, Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> The article stated they had three iPhones with them, and AT&T charges
    >> $25 for 20 MB of data when roaming in 29 countries (an excellent
    >> value compared to many carriers, BTW!)
    >>
    >> So, to run up $1600/phone, what the heck were these people receiving
    >> via e-mail? XP Service packs?

    >
    > It isn't that excellent. The $25 is a recurring monthly charge
    > which allows you to receive up to 20 MB in any one month for free.
    > The overage charge on the plan is $0.005/kB, or $100 per 20 MB.
    >
    > If you aren't paying the $25 per month, or you are outside the 29
    > countries, then the data charge is $0.0195/kB, or $400 per 20 MB.
    > At that price it is fairly easy to see how one could run up a $1600
    > bill without trying too hard.
    >
    > I wonder, is it easy to turn the data off on an iPhone while leaving
    > the phone on? If not, that would be a design problem.
    >
    > Dennis Ferguson


    Yes, according to the manual it is very easy have the device only check
    manually. See below:

    [Set whether iPhone checks for new messages automatically

    From the Home screen choose Settings > Mail > Auto-Check, then tap Manual,
    “Every

    15 minutes,” “Every 30 minutes,” or “Every hour.”] p 50 of Iphone manual



    Real easy, but in all fairness to the OP I might have gotten bit on this
    myself. Oh well.





  10. #10
    Tinman
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    "Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote:
    > Mark Crispin <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> What do the fanboys say: "He shoulda turned the phone off if he wasn't
    >> using it."

    >
    > Attention fanboys: HE DID TURN HIS PHONES OFF.


    Attention ignoramuses: HE DID *NOT* TURN HIS PHONES OFF.

    To say otherwise is ludicrous. Tune in next week when some yo-yo posts:
    "iPhone found in Titanic wreckage, $670,222,344,111,209.12 in data
    charges!!!"


    > The problem is, the
    > phones are NEVER OFF--only the display and touchscreen are powered off.
    > The guts of it continue to work AT ALL TIMES.
    >
    > To quote the article:
    >
    >> The problem was that their three Iphones were racking up a bill for data
    >> charges using foreign phone charges. The Iphone regularly updates e-mail,
    >> even while it's off, so that all the messages will be available when the
    >> user
    >> turns it on.
    >>
    >> Levy is fuming, claiming that Apple and AT&T were acting like a bank
    >> which
    >> has automatic access to your ATM machine and is siphoning money out
    >> during
    >> all times of the day and night.

    >
    > Didja see that, fanboys? "...regularly updates email, even while it's
    > off..."
    >
    > Let me see here: I can't turn it off. I can't remove the battery, like
    > I can with a Blackberry (for example).
    >


    Here's a hint: when the iPhone is turned off it is off and will **NOT**
    auto-check email. Ferchrist's sake anyone who turned an iPhone off just
    once, and I mean off not sleep, would know this.

    Next time do a little research before quoting "The Enquirer" as gospel.
    Oxford will have a field day with this--and you deserve it this time.


    --
    Mike





  11. #11
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    At 10 Sep 2007 19:17:15 +0000 Dennis Ferguson wrote:

    > It isn't that excellent. The $25 is a recurring monthly charge
    > which allows you to receive up to 20 MB in any one month for free.
    > The overage charge on the plan is $0.005/kB, or $100 per 20 MB.


    Ah, the "catch"- thanks. Can you turn it on and off (i.e. a month at
    a time) or does it have a term committment? Even a month's fee seems
    reasonable for a week abroad vs. the standard rate.


    > If you aren't paying the $25 per month, or you are outside the 29
    > countries, then the data charge is $0.0195/kB, or $400 per 20 MB.


    About the same as T-Mo, then (T-Mo is at $16/MB, IIRC, now.)

    > At that price it is fairly easy to see how one could run up a $1600
    > bill without trying too hard.


    Certainly.

    > I wonder, is it easy to turn the data off on an iPhone while leaving
    > the phone on?


    The folks that have unlocked them seem to have no trouble
    provisioning them for T-Mo, so I assume the data settings are
    available, but I have no first hand knowledge- I don't currently, nor
    do I have any plans to, own one.

    > If not, that would be a design problem.



    Agreed, but not an insurmountable one- as a last resort you could
    simply delete your IMAP accounts and there'd be nothing to sync to.

    I'm almost as bad- when I travel outside the US, I rename my APN to
    an invalid one just in case I forget to turn off auto-retrieval!

    I certainly don't mean to sound unsympathetic to the people in the
    posted article- I was really just pointing out that it's not a
    problem specific to "iPhones." With the ever-growing popularity of
    smartphones, international travel can be hazardous to your wallet
    without precautions! (As you well know better than most of us!) ;-)

    --

    "I don't need my cell phone to play video games or take pictures
    or double as a Walkie-Talkie; I just need it to work. Thanks for
    all the bells and whistles, but I could communicate better with
    ACTUAL bells and whistles." -Bill Maher 9/25/2003





  12. #12
    Alan Baker
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "John B. Coarsey, PE" <jcoarsey<nospam>@yahoo.com> wrote:

    > "Dennis Ferguson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > On 2007-09-10, Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >> The article stated they had three iPhones with them, and AT&T charges
    > >> $25 for 20 MB of data when roaming in 29 countries (an excellent
    > >> value compared to many carriers, BTW!)
    > >>
    > >> So, to run up $1600/phone, what the heck were these people receiving
    > >> via e-mail? XP Service packs?

    > >
    > > It isn't that excellent. The $25 is a recurring monthly charge
    > > which allows you to receive up to 20 MB in any one month for free.
    > > The overage charge on the plan is $0.005/kB, or $100 per 20 MB.
    > >
    > > If you aren't paying the $25 per month, or you are outside the 29
    > > countries, then the data charge is $0.0195/kB, or $400 per 20 MB.
    > > At that price it is fairly easy to see how one could run up a $1600
    > > bill without trying too hard.
    > >
    > > I wonder, is it easy to turn the data off on an iPhone while leaving
    > > the phone on? If not, that would be a design problem.
    > >
    > > Dennis Ferguson

    >
    > Yes, according to the manual it is very easy have the device only check
    > manually. See below:
    >
    > [Set whether iPhone checks for new messages automatically
    >
    > From the Home screen choose Settings > Mail > Auto-Check, then tap Manual,
    > “Every
    >
    > 15 minutes,” “Every 30 minutes,” or “Every hour.”] p 50 of Iphone manual
    >
    >
    >
    > Real easy, but in all fairness to the OP I might have gotten bit on this
    > myself. Oh well.


    And it's my understanding that the default setting is to check for mail
    *manually*.

    Not to mention that the iPhone doesn't check for mail when it is turned
    off...

    --
    Alan Baker
    Vancouver, British Columbia
    "If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
    to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
    sit in the bottom of that cupboard."



  13. #13
    Dennis Ferguson
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    On 2007-09-10, Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:
    > At 10 Sep 2007 19:17:15 +0000 Dennis Ferguson wrote:
    >
    >> It isn't that excellent. The $25 is a recurring monthly charge
    >> which allows you to receive up to 20 MB in any one month for free.
    >> The overage charge on the plan is $0.005/kB, or $100 per 20 MB.

    >
    > Ah, the "catch"- thanks. Can you turn it on and off (i.e. a month at
    > a time) or does it have a term committment? Even a month's fee seems
    > reasonable for a week abroad vs. the standard rate.


    I don't know. All the other comparable plans, including the one
    for laptops ($140 for 100 MB), require a year term, but the iPhone
    plan description doesn't explicitly mention this.

    It is always possible to cancel term service in the first 30 days,
    however, if one has the self discipline to do it. I've actually
    been tempted to take the laptop plan for a particular trip and
    cancel when I get back, but my organizational skills are such
    that I've been scared I'll end up paying a couple of months plus
    the ETF.

    Dennis Ferguson



  14. #14

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    On Sep 10, 8:15 am, Mark Crispin <[email protected]> wrote:
    > http://theinquirer.net/?article=42235
    >
    > So the sucker takes his iPhone toy with him on a Mediterranean cruise,
    > and doesn't actually use it. Presumably, he had it with him just in case
    > he got a call from home on his cell number -- that being the reason why
    > most people take their US worldphones overseas.


    Kind of off topic, but I tied the "Mobile YouTube" (with a Razr, not
    an iPhone, but I presume same content) service, and I was very
    underwhelmed with the selection of videos they had on there. I would
    estimate that the mobile version has maybe 1/1000th of the content of
    the regular YouTube site, if even that. Also, the videos seemed to
    have been hand picked, and the service reminded me more of regular TV,
    albeit with different content, than the wild west goodness of the
    regular YouTube. I was very underwhelmed. What does this have to do
    with the iPhone? They were using the mobile version of YouTube as a
    selling point. Not good.

    >
    > When he gets home, he's rewarded with a 54 page bill from AT&T for $4800,
    > because the iPhone was updating its email in the background over expensive
    > GPRS roaming.
    >
    > What do the fanboys say: "He shoulda turned the phone off if he wasn't
    > using it." That misses the point of having your home country phone with
    > you when overseas, which is to receive phone calls. It's supposed to be a
    > phone.
    >
    > If he actually intended to use the phone overseas, he'd get a local prepay
    > SIM card. But the iPhone is locked...oh dear, oh my...
    >
    > The hype and the glitter is starting to come off the 21st century Edsel.
    >


    I agree. The hype bit it for me even before the damned thing was
    released when Jobs said "no 3rd party apps" (except Web 2.0 but I
    don't consider those apps proper, as in running on the phone its self,
    without having to be on a network). I tried the phone itself, and
    while the interface is nice, it's not something I would shout from the
    rooftops from. Hell, you can find the slider, pusher things on an old
    iPaq or other touch screen based Windows Mobile 2002 and better (Palm
    probably has this too), and some of the games and apps make extensive
    use of those too. On top of that, this has been going on long before
    the iPhone was a glimmer in Apple's eyes. No Multitouch, yes, but the
    regular touch screens work fine as they are.




  15. #15
    Kurt
    Guest

    Re: take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "John B. Coarsey, PE" <jcoarsey<nospam>@yahoo.com> wrote:

    > "Dennis Ferguson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > On 2007-09-10, Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >> The article stated they had three iPhones with them, and AT&T charges
    > >> $25 for 20 MB of data when roaming in 29 countries (an excellent
    > >> value compared to many carriers, BTW!)
    > >>
    > >> So, to run up $1600/phone, what the heck were these people receiving
    > >> via e-mail? XP Service packs?

    > >
    > > It isn't that excellent. The $25 is a recurring monthly charge
    > > which allows you to receive up to 20 MB in any one month for free.
    > > The overage charge on the plan is $0.005/kB, or $100 per 20 MB.
    > >
    > > If you aren't paying the $25 per month, or you are outside the 29
    > > countries, then the data charge is $0.0195/kB, or $400 per 20 MB.
    > > At that price it is fairly easy to see how one could run up a $1600
    > > bill without trying too hard.
    > >
    > > I wonder, is it easy to turn the data off on an iPhone while leaving
    > > the phone on? If not, that would be a design problem.
    > >
    > > Dennis Ferguson

    >
    > Yes, according to the manual it is very easy have the device only check
    > manually. See below:
    >
    > [Set whether iPhone checks for new messages automatically
    >
    > From the Home screen choose Settings > Mail > Auto-Check, then tap Manual,
    > “Every
    >
    > 15 minutes,” “Every 30 minutes,” or “Every hour.”] p 50 of Iphone manual
    >
    >
    >
    > Real easy, but in all fairness to the OP I might have gotten bit on this
    > myself. Oh well.


    The default is manual.

    --
    To reply by email, remove the word "space"



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