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  1. #1
    SMS
    Guest
    Dennis Ferguson wrote:

    > I'd point out that Verizon has always had a 1 year contract option
    > if you take $50 less equipment discount, which I assume is also what
    > you'd get if you brought your own phone when you took a new line of
    > service. AT&T's greed is its own.


    I think that some sort of contract is reasonable even if you bring your
    own equipment. The carrier does have some expense in setting up a new
    account and doesn't want people terminating service soon after
    establishing it. Two years is ridiculously long if you're not getting a
    phone subsidy, and even one year is pushing it. If they insist on a 2
    year contract when you buy a SIM, then they should give you a $50 credit
    on your account (though the "free" GSM phones cost the carrier well
    under $50).

    With the current prepaid deals, many consumers would be better off with
    no contract at all. I.e. you can get PagePlus for as little as
    5.3¢/minute, with text messages as low as 3.5¢ each. $40/month seems to
    be the lowest base rate these days from any carrier, which would provide
    750 anytime minutes on PagePlus. No ridiculous overage charges either.
    However no free nights and weekends.



    See More: AT&T Now Offers SIM Card Sans Phone - Greed?




  2. #2
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: AT&T Now Offers SIM Card Sans Phone - Greed?

    On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:38:05 -0800, SMS <[email protected]>
    wrote in <[email protected]>:

    >Dennis Ferguson wrote:
    >
    >> I'd point out that Verizon has always had a 1 year contract option
    >> if you take $50 less equipment discount, which I assume is also what
    >> you'd get if you brought your own phone when you took a new line of
    >> service. AT&T's greed is its own.

    >
    >I think that some sort of contract is reasonable even if you bring your
    >own equipment. The carrier does have some expense in setting up a new
    >account and doesn't want people terminating service soon after
    >establishing it. ...


    That's what the activation fee is for. Doh!

    --
    Best regards, FAQ FOR AT&T (CINGULAR) WIRELESS:
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/AT&T_Wireless_FAQ>



  3. #3
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: AT&T Now Offers SIM Card Sans Phone - Greed?

    At 22 Jan 2008 09:38:05 -0800 SMS wrote:

    > I think that some sort of contract is reasonable even if you bring
    > your own equipment. The carrier does have some expense in setting
    > up a new account and doesn't want people terminating service soon
    > after establishing it.


    I disagree- the setup expenses are what the "activation fee" is supposedly
    for. VoIP providers manage to sign people up for short terms without
    contracts (or even activation fees in many cases!) and they've got higher
    churn rates than cellular companies. Cell companies also don't seem to
    have a problem siging up a prepaid customer for short periods- they should
    be perfectly willing to risk a short term $40+/month customer if they're
    willing to risk an $8/month prepaid customer.


    > Two years is ridiculously long if you're not getting a phone subsidy,


    Two years is ridiculously long anyway. Particularly when that second year
    only nets you another $50 off the price of a phone. How is the first year
    worth $100-200 and the second only worth $50?

    > and even one year is pushing it. If they insist on a 2 year contract
    > when you buy a SIM, then they should give you a $50 credit on your
    > account (though the "free" GSM phones cost the carrier well under $50).



    Unlikely. According to RCR Wireless News (a trade mag), low-end US market
    phones still wholesale for $60+. The under-$50 barrier was only broken
    recently by Nokia and Motorola for monochrome-screen featureless phones
    designed for emerging nations (India, China, etc.)

    > With the current prepaid deals, many consumers would be better off
    > with no contract at all. I.e. you can get PagePlus for as little as
    > 5.3¢/minute, with text messages as low as 3.5¢ each. $40/month seems
    > to be the lowest base rate these days from any carrier, which would
    > provide 750 anytime minutes on PagePlus. No ridiculous overage charges
    > either. However no free nights and weekends.



    Or in-net calling, which many folks take advantage of. Otherwise I agree
    with you- prepaid is a better deal for a large number of phone users, many
    who probably avoid it based on stigma alone.






  4. #4
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: AT&T Now Offers SIM Card Sans Phone - Greed?

    Todd Allcock wrote:
    > At 22 Jan 2008 09:38:05 -0800 SMS wrote:
    >
    >> I think that some sort of contract is reasonable even if you bring
    >> your own equipment. The carrier does have some expense in setting
    >> up a new account and doesn't want people terminating service soon
    >> after establishing it.

    >
    > I disagree- the setup expenses are what the "activation fee" is supposedly
    > for. VoIP providers manage to sign people up for short terms without
    > contracts (or even activation fees in many cases!) and they've got higher
    > churn rates than cellular companies. Cell companies also don't seem to
    > have a problem siging up a prepaid customer for short periods- they should
    > be perfectly willing to risk a short term $40+/month customer if they're
    > willing to risk an $8/month prepaid customer.


    Activation fees are routinely waived, so the carrier probably justifies
    the contract even with user-supplied equipment based on the cost of
    adding a customer to their network.

    > Unlikely. According to RCR Wireless News (a trade mag), low-end US market
    > phones still wholesale for $60+. The under-$50 barrier was only broken
    > recently by Nokia and Motorola for monochrome-screen featureless phones
    > designed for emerging nations (India, China, etc.)


    That's probably the average, not the lowest cost for a company as large
    as AT&T. They're selling prepaid phones that can easily be unlocked for
    under $50. I saw stories on RCR more than a year ago of $40 wholesale
    for low-end phones.

    > Or in-net calling, which many folks take advantage of. Otherwise I agree
    > with you- prepaid is a better deal for a large number of phone users, many
    > who probably avoid it based on stigma alone.


    Hopefully that stigma is becoming less and less. I can tell you that
    among seniors, including those that can afford postpaid, it seems to
    have lost its stigma (at least in South Florida). I know several people
    that have no credit or income problems, but that just don't want so many
    recurring monthly fees for stuff they don't use a lot.



  5. #5
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: AT&T Now Offers SIM Card Sans Phone - Greed?

    At 22 Jan 2008 13:13:00 -0800 SMS wrote:

    > Activation fees are routinely waived,


    But probably not for month-to-month customers.

    > so the carrier probably justifies the contract even with user-
    > supplied equipment based on the cost of adding a customer to their
    > network.



    Perhaps- T-Mobile rolled out a contract-free plan back in October called
    Flexpay. It's similar to a hybrid plan like AT&T's GoPhone, but let's you
    choose from T-Mo's "real" plans with perks (free N&W, M2M, etc.) intact,
    and all regular "add-ons" (like unlimited data) available.



    > That's probably the average, not the lowest cost for a company
    > as large as AT&T. They're selling prepaid phones that can easily
    > be unlocked for under $50.


    Yes, and selling them at a loss to encourage the purchase of prepaid minutes.


    > I saw stories on RCR more than a year ago of $40 wholesale for low-end

    phones.

    Again, those were phones you and I will never see unless we go to India or
    China! ;-)

    > Hopefully that stigma is becoming less and less. I can tell you
    > that among seniors, including those that can afford postpaid, it
    > seems to have lost its stigma (at least in South Florida). I know
    > several people that have no credit or income problems, but that
    > just don't want so many recurring monthly fees for stuff they don't
    > use a lot.



    Agreed. Back when I was a Cingular dealer, I sold a lot of prepaid phones
    to credit-worthy folks, most of whom were Seniors. I practically had to
    strongarm some of them into accepting that prepaid didn't mean "deadbeat"
    if their sons or daughters brought them in to shop. I even offered to
    handle the refills for those who didn't want to deal with scratch-off cards
    and VRUs. I kept a calendar and called my customers shortly before their
    expiration date and topped them up either by credit card over the phone,
    credit card number in my tickler file (at their option if they trusted me)
    or by mailed check. (Keep in mind this was nearly a decade ago- web use in
    general, particularly by Seniors was much lower than today! IIRC, Cingular
    hadn't even set up an automated buy-by-phone option for prepaid airtime
    yet.)

    Those that I took care of this way took care of me in spades with word of
    mouth and talk of the "cheap cell phone guy" spread amongst the local
    seniors faster than talk of bladder problems and the high price of medicines.
    ;-)

    Early in my prepaid-selling career I even secured a bunch of old closeout
    Nokias that produced a fake dialtone. The seniors loved that one- you hit
    "Talk" first then dialed the number, just their cordless phones at home.





  6. #6
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: AT&T Now Offers SIM Card Sans Phone - Greed?

    On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:13:00 -0800, SMS <[email protected]>
    wrote in <[email protected]>:

    >Todd Allcock wrote:


    >> I disagree- the setup expenses are what the "activation fee" is supposedly
    >> for. VoIP providers manage to sign people up for short terms without
    >> contracts (or even activation fees in many cases!) and they've got higher
    >> churn rates than cellular companies. Cell companies also don't seem to
    >> have a problem siging up a prepaid customer for short periods- they should
    >> be perfectly willing to risk a short term $40+/month customer if they're
    >> willing to risk an $8/month prepaid customer.

    >
    >Activation fees are routinely waived, so the carrier probably justifies
    >the contract even with user-supplied equipment based on the cost of
    >adding a customer to their network.


    That makes absolutely no sense.

    >> Unlikely. According to RCR Wireless News (a trade mag), low-end US market
    >> phones still wholesale for $60+. The under-$50 barrier was only broken
    >> recently by Nokia and Motorola for monochrome-screen featureless phones
    >> designed for emerging nations (India, China, etc.)

    >
    >That's probably the average, not the lowest cost for a company as large
    >as AT&T. They're selling prepaid phones that can easily be unlocked for
    >under $50. I saw stories on RCR more than a year ago of $40 wholesale
    >for low-end phones.


    Todd is correct.

    --
    Best regards, FAQ FOR AT&T (CINGULAR) WIRELESS:
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/AT&T_Wireless_FAQ>



  7. #7
    Anon E. Muss
    Guest

    Re: AT&T Now Offers SIM Card Sans Phone - Greed?

    On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:42:23 GMT, John Navas
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:38:05 -0800, SMS <[email protected]>
    >wrote in <[email protected]>:
    >
    >>Dennis Ferguson wrote:
    >>
    >>> I'd point out that Verizon has always had a 1 year contract option
    >>> if you take $50 less equipment discount, which I assume is also what
    >>> you'd get if you brought your own phone when you took a new line of
    >>> service. AT&T's greed is its own.

    >>
    >>I think that some sort of contract is reasonable even if you bring your
    >>own equipment. The carrier does have some expense in setting up a new
    >>account and doesn't want people terminating service soon after
    >>establishing it. ...

    >
    >That's what the activation fee is for. Doh!


    So you agree then that requiring a contract when you bring your own
    equipment is unreasonable. Will wonders never cease? John makes the
    right call for once!



  8. #8
    Anon E. Muss
    Guest

    Re: AT&T Now Offers SIM Card Sans Phone - Greed?

    On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:38:05 -0800, SMS <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    [snip]

    >Two years is ridiculously long if you're not getting a phone subsidy,
    >and even one year is pushing it.


    [snip]

    Two years is ridiculously long period -- particularly when the phones
    comes with a one-year warranty and many phones (e.g., Blackbery)
    aren't insurable thru AT&T.

    If your Blackberry breaks between year one and two on a two-year
    contract then you are hosed. I liked getting one-year contracts --
    realizing that while I paid $50-$100 more than if I did a 2-yar
    contract (and sometimes not getting a rebate) I had the peace of mind
    knowing my phone was always under warranty and being able to upgrade
    to the newest model Blackberry yearly.



  9. #9
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: AT&T Now Offers SIM Card Sans Phone - Greed?

    On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:29:42 -0800, Anon E. Muss <[email protected]>
    wrote in <[email protected]>:

    >Two years is ridiculously long period -- particularly when the phones
    >comes with a one-year warranty and many phones (e.g., Blackbery)
    >aren't insurable thru AT&T.
    >
    >If your Blackberry breaks between year one and two on a two-year
    >contract then you are hosed. ...


    Not if you insure it someplace else.

    --
    Best regards, FAQ FOR AT&T (CINGULAR) WIRELESS:
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/AT&T_Wireless_FAQ>



  10. #10
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: AT&T Now Offers SIM Card Sans Phone - Greed?

    On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:22:25 -0800, Anon E. Muss <[email protected]>
    wrote in <[email protected]>:

    >On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:42:23 GMT, John Navas
    ><[email protected]> wrote:


    >>That's what the activation fee is for. Doh!


    >So you agree then that requiring a contract when you bring your own
    >equipment is unreasonable. Will wonders never cease? John makes the
    >right call for once!


    That's been my position all along. Doh!

    --
    Best regards, FAQ FOR AT&T (CINGULAR) WIRELESS:
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/AT&T_Wireless_FAQ>



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