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- 01-22-2008, 11:38 AM #1SMSGuest
Dennis Ferguson wrote:
> I'd point out that Verizon has always had a 1 year contract option
> if you take $50 less equipment discount, which I assume is also what
> you'd get if you brought your own phone when you took a new line of
> service. AT&T's greed is its own.
I think that some sort of contract is reasonable even if you bring your
own equipment. The carrier does have some expense in setting up a new
account and doesn't want people terminating service soon after
establishing it. Two years is ridiculously long if you're not getting a
phone subsidy, and even one year is pushing it. If they insist on a 2
year contract when you buy a SIM, then they should give you a $50 credit
on your account (though the "free" GSM phones cost the carrier well
under $50).
With the current prepaid deals, many consumers would be better off with
no contract at all. I.e. you can get PagePlus for as little as
5.3¢/minute, with text messages as low as 3.5¢ each. $40/month seems to
be the lowest base rate these days from any carrier, which would provide
750 anytime minutes on PagePlus. No ridiculous overage charges either.
However no free nights and weekends.
› See More: AT&T Now Offers SIM Card Sans Phone - Greed?
- 01-22-2008, 01:42 PM #2John NavasGuest
Re: AT&T Now Offers SIM Card Sans Phone - Greed?
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:38:05 -0800, SMS <[email protected]>
wrote in <[email protected]>:
>Dennis Ferguson wrote:
>
>> I'd point out that Verizon has always had a 1 year contract option
>> if you take $50 less equipment discount, which I assume is also what
>> you'd get if you brought your own phone when you took a new line of
>> service. AT&T's greed is its own.
>
>I think that some sort of contract is reasonable even if you bring your
>own equipment. The carrier does have some expense in setting up a new
>account and doesn't want people terminating service soon after
>establishing it. ...
That's what the activation fee is for. Doh!
--
Best regards, FAQ FOR AT&T (CINGULAR) WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/AT&T_Wireless_FAQ>
- 01-22-2008, 02:39 PM #3Todd AllcockGuest
Re: AT&T Now Offers SIM Card Sans Phone - Greed?
At 22 Jan 2008 09:38:05 -0800 SMS wrote:
> I think that some sort of contract is reasonable even if you bring
> your own equipment. The carrier does have some expense in setting
> up a new account and doesn't want people terminating service soon
> after establishing it.
I disagree- the setup expenses are what the "activation fee" is supposedly
for. VoIP providers manage to sign people up for short terms without
contracts (or even activation fees in many cases!) and they've got higher
churn rates than cellular companies. Cell companies also don't seem to
have a problem siging up a prepaid customer for short periods- they should
be perfectly willing to risk a short term $40+/month customer if they're
willing to risk an $8/month prepaid customer.
> Two years is ridiculously long if you're not getting a phone subsidy,
Two years is ridiculously long anyway. Particularly when that second year
only nets you another $50 off the price of a phone. How is the first year
worth $100-200 and the second only worth $50?
> and even one year is pushing it. If they insist on a 2 year contract
> when you buy a SIM, then they should give you a $50 credit on your
> account (though the "free" GSM phones cost the carrier well under $50).
Unlikely. According to RCR Wireless News (a trade mag), low-end US market
phones still wholesale for $60+. The under-$50 barrier was only broken
recently by Nokia and Motorola for monochrome-screen featureless phones
designed for emerging nations (India, China, etc.)
> With the current prepaid deals, many consumers would be better off
> with no contract at all. I.e. you can get PagePlus for as little as
> 5.3¢/minute, with text messages as low as 3.5¢ each. $40/month seems
> to be the lowest base rate these days from any carrier, which would
> provide 750 anytime minutes on PagePlus. No ridiculous overage charges
> either. However no free nights and weekends.
Or in-net calling, which many folks take advantage of. Otherwise I agree
with you- prepaid is a better deal for a large number of phone users, many
who probably avoid it based on stigma alone.
- 01-22-2008, 03:13 PM #4SMSGuest
Re: AT&T Now Offers SIM Card Sans Phone - Greed?
Todd Allcock wrote:
> At 22 Jan 2008 09:38:05 -0800 SMS wrote:
>
>> I think that some sort of contract is reasonable even if you bring
>> your own equipment. The carrier does have some expense in setting
>> up a new account and doesn't want people terminating service soon
>> after establishing it.
>
> I disagree- the setup expenses are what the "activation fee" is supposedly
> for. VoIP providers manage to sign people up for short terms without
> contracts (or even activation fees in many cases!) and they've got higher
> churn rates than cellular companies. Cell companies also don't seem to
> have a problem siging up a prepaid customer for short periods- they should
> be perfectly willing to risk a short term $40+/month customer if they're
> willing to risk an $8/month prepaid customer.
Activation fees are routinely waived, so the carrier probably justifies
the contract even with user-supplied equipment based on the cost of
adding a customer to their network.
> Unlikely. According to RCR Wireless News (a trade mag), low-end US market
> phones still wholesale for $60+. The under-$50 barrier was only broken
> recently by Nokia and Motorola for monochrome-screen featureless phones
> designed for emerging nations (India, China, etc.)
That's probably the average, not the lowest cost for a company as large
as AT&T. They're selling prepaid phones that can easily be unlocked for
under $50. I saw stories on RCR more than a year ago of $40 wholesale
for low-end phones.
> Or in-net calling, which many folks take advantage of. Otherwise I agree
> with you- prepaid is a better deal for a large number of phone users, many
> who probably avoid it based on stigma alone.
Hopefully that stigma is becoming less and less. I can tell you that
among seniors, including those that can afford postpaid, it seems to
have lost its stigma (at least in South Florida). I know several people
that have no credit or income problems, but that just don't want so many
recurring monthly fees for stuff they don't use a lot.
- 01-22-2008, 04:22 PM #5Todd AllcockGuest
Re: AT&T Now Offers SIM Card Sans Phone - Greed?
At 22 Jan 2008 13:13:00 -0800 SMS wrote:
> Activation fees are routinely waived,
But probably not for month-to-month customers.
> so the carrier probably justifies the contract even with user-
> supplied equipment based on the cost of adding a customer to their
> network.
Perhaps- T-Mobile rolled out a contract-free plan back in October called
Flexpay. It's similar to a hybrid plan like AT&T's GoPhone, but let's you
choose from T-Mo's "real" plans with perks (free N&W, M2M, etc.) intact,
and all regular "add-ons" (like unlimited data) available.
> That's probably the average, not the lowest cost for a company
> as large as AT&T. They're selling prepaid phones that can easily
> be unlocked for under $50.
Yes, and selling them at a loss to encourage the purchase of prepaid minutes.
> I saw stories on RCR more than a year ago of $40 wholesale for low-end
phones.
Again, those were phones you and I will never see unless we go to India or
China! ;-)
> Hopefully that stigma is becoming less and less. I can tell you
> that among seniors, including those that can afford postpaid, it
> seems to have lost its stigma (at least in South Florida). I know
> several people that have no credit or income problems, but that
> just don't want so many recurring monthly fees for stuff they don't
> use a lot.
Agreed. Back when I was a Cingular dealer, I sold a lot of prepaid phones
to credit-worthy folks, most of whom were Seniors. I practically had to
strongarm some of them into accepting that prepaid didn't mean "deadbeat"
if their sons or daughters brought them in to shop. I even offered to
handle the refills for those who didn't want to deal with scratch-off cards
and VRUs. I kept a calendar and called my customers shortly before their
expiration date and topped them up either by credit card over the phone,
credit card number in my tickler file (at their option if they trusted me)
or by mailed check. (Keep in mind this was nearly a decade ago- web use in
general, particularly by Seniors was much lower than today! IIRC, Cingular
hadn't even set up an automated buy-by-phone option for prepaid airtime
yet.)
Those that I took care of this way took care of me in spades with word of
mouth and talk of the "cheap cell phone guy" spread amongst the local
seniors faster than talk of bladder problems and the high price of medicines.
;-)
Early in my prepaid-selling career I even secured a bunch of old closeout
Nokias that produced a fake dialtone. The seniors loved that one- you hit
"Talk" first then dialed the number, just their cordless phones at home.
- 01-22-2008, 04:37 PM #6John NavasGuest
Re: AT&T Now Offers SIM Card Sans Phone - Greed?
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:13:00 -0800, SMS <[email protected]>
wrote in <[email protected]>:
>Todd Allcock wrote:
>> I disagree- the setup expenses are what the "activation fee" is supposedly
>> for. VoIP providers manage to sign people up for short terms without
>> contracts (or even activation fees in many cases!) and they've got higher
>> churn rates than cellular companies. Cell companies also don't seem to
>> have a problem siging up a prepaid customer for short periods- they should
>> be perfectly willing to risk a short term $40+/month customer if they're
>> willing to risk an $8/month prepaid customer.
>
>Activation fees are routinely waived, so the carrier probably justifies
>the contract even with user-supplied equipment based on the cost of
>adding a customer to their network.
That makes absolutely no sense.
>> Unlikely. According to RCR Wireless News (a trade mag), low-end US market
>> phones still wholesale for $60+. The under-$50 barrier was only broken
>> recently by Nokia and Motorola for monochrome-screen featureless phones
>> designed for emerging nations (India, China, etc.)
>
>That's probably the average, not the lowest cost for a company as large
>as AT&T. They're selling prepaid phones that can easily be unlocked for
>under $50. I saw stories on RCR more than a year ago of $40 wholesale
>for low-end phones.
Todd is correct.
--
Best regards, FAQ FOR AT&T (CINGULAR) WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/AT&T_Wireless_FAQ>
- 01-22-2008, 05:22 PM #7Anon E. MussGuest
Re: AT&T Now Offers SIM Card Sans Phone - Greed?
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:42:23 GMT, John Navas
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:38:05 -0800, SMS <[email protected]>
>wrote in <[email protected]>:
>
>>Dennis Ferguson wrote:
>>
>>> I'd point out that Verizon has always had a 1 year contract option
>>> if you take $50 less equipment discount, which I assume is also what
>>> you'd get if you brought your own phone when you took a new line of
>>> service. AT&T's greed is its own.
>>
>>I think that some sort of contract is reasonable even if you bring your
>>own equipment. The carrier does have some expense in setting up a new
>>account and doesn't want people terminating service soon after
>>establishing it. ...
>
>That's what the activation fee is for. Doh!
So you agree then that requiring a contract when you bring your own
equipment is unreasonable. Will wonders never cease? John makes the
right call for once!
- 01-22-2008, 05:29 PM #8Anon E. MussGuest
Re: AT&T Now Offers SIM Card Sans Phone - Greed?
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:38:05 -0800, SMS <[email protected]>
wrote:
[snip]
>Two years is ridiculously long if you're not getting a phone subsidy,
>and even one year is pushing it.
[snip]
Two years is ridiculously long period -- particularly when the phones
comes with a one-year warranty and many phones (e.g., Blackbery)
aren't insurable thru AT&T.
If your Blackberry breaks between year one and two on a two-year
contract then you are hosed. I liked getting one-year contracts --
realizing that while I paid $50-$100 more than if I did a 2-yar
contract (and sometimes not getting a rebate) I had the peace of mind
knowing my phone was always under warranty and being able to upgrade
to the newest model Blackberry yearly.
- 01-22-2008, 07:04 PM #9John NavasGuest
Re: AT&T Now Offers SIM Card Sans Phone - Greed?
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:29:42 -0800, Anon E. Muss <[email protected]>
wrote in <[email protected]>:
>Two years is ridiculously long period -- particularly when the phones
>comes with a one-year warranty and many phones (e.g., Blackbery)
>aren't insurable thru AT&T.
>
>If your Blackberry breaks between year one and two on a two-year
>contract then you are hosed. ...
Not if you insure it someplace else.
--
Best regards, FAQ FOR AT&T (CINGULAR) WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/AT&T_Wireless_FAQ>
- 01-22-2008, 07:05 PM #10John NavasGuest
Re: AT&T Now Offers SIM Card Sans Phone - Greed?
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:22:25 -0800, Anon E. Muss <[email protected]>
wrote in <[email protected]>:
>On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:42:23 GMT, John Navas
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>That's what the activation fee is for. Doh!
>So you agree then that requiring a contract when you bring your own
>equipment is unreasonable. Will wonders never cease? John makes the
>right call for once!
That's been my position all along. Doh!
--
Best regards, FAQ FOR AT&T (CINGULAR) WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/AT&T_Wireless_FAQ>
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