Never the same answer

I am not sure where you are getting this info from, but at least in the Los
Angeles area, it is wrong.

Pac Bell was the first PCS carrier in the LA area (I know, I was a
customer). It existed along with Airtouch (now Verizon) and LA Cellular (now
AT&T) and I don't recall it ever having AMPS capabilities. Pac Bell Wireless
became Cingular in Los Angeles (and all of California, I would think). As a
matter of fact, I still have two old Pac Bell phones, neither of which can
be used on AMPS and both of which can be used on Cingular with a Cingular
SIM card.




> PBW was one of the original AMPS providers (Airtouch).
> They spun it out into an independent company which was
> bought by Vodafone. Vodafone and AT&T formed Cellular
> One. Later Vodafone dropped out of Cellular One and
> became part of Verizon in the U.S..
>
> I guess that selling Airtouch seemed like a good idea at
> the time, but now they'll never get any of that sweet
> 800 Mhz spectrum back.
>
> Steve
>
> [posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

---

› See More: Never the same answer

"Jay" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I am not sure where you are getting this info from, but at least in the Los
> Angeles area, it is wrong.
>
> Pac Bell was the first PCS carrier in the LA area (I know, I was a
> customer). It existed along with Airtouch (now Verizon) and LA Cellular (now
> AT&T) and I don't recall it ever having AMPS capabilities.

I think you misunderstood Steve's post. When the original 800MHz cellular
licenses were first handed out, the "B" (or "Bell") license generally went to
the local wireline telco (in this case, PacBell) and the "A" (or "Alternate")
license was up for grabs.

Steve said (I believe) that PacBell operated their cellular division as
"Airtouch" then spun it off into a seperate company. When PCS licenses
became available many years later, PB bought one to get "back in the game."

So "PacBell" never offered analog service on their 1900MHz PCS service,
but they were, briefly, one of the original providers, albeit under a different
name.
Omaha, Nebraska was a weird market as well. The local telco, US West,
not wanting to be in the cellular biz, sold off their "B" license (to a company
called Centel, if memory serves) and later decided they did want a piece of
the action and bought the A-band license from whoever acquired it, making
it one of the few markets at the time where the local telco was the A-band
provider rather than the B-band one.

On 8 Sep 2003 01:23:50 -0700, [email protected] (Todd Allcock) wrote:

>I think you misunderstood Steve's post. When the original 800MHz cellular
>licenses were first handed out, the "B" (or "Bell") license generally went to
>the local wireline telco (in this case, PacBell) and the "A" (or "Alternate")
>license was up for grabs.
>
>Steve said (I believe) that PacBell operated their cellular division as
>"Airtouch" then spun it off into a seperate company. When PCS licenses
>became available many years later, PB bought one to get "back in the game."

USWest did the same thing. Originally USWest was the "B"ell cellular
carrier. They decided that they wanted out of cellular and sold the
operation to Airtouch which later became Verizon.

They then decided that they wanted back in on the wireless business
and started up USWest PCS which later became Qwest PCS. It turns out
now they are going to sell the PCS division to Sprint (last I heard.)
Qwest is in bad shape and they're selling all their interests
(including the Qwestdex directory bidness) except for their
residential and business customer base. cingular in Washington state
was originally GTE Mobilenet a CDMA carrier and was converted to GSM
the same as for California and Nevada.

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I realize that AT&T has the biggest foothold in the NW areas but
Cingular and AT&T share that foothold in the south, with Cingular having
a larger grasp in Texas.
As GAIT phones were designed to run off GSM with TDMA as a secondary
condition I see no reason why it wouldn't work in the NW. In Washington
state GSM is found on the west coast, the central plains, and on into
northern Idaho- most of it Cingular claims, but AT&T has.
If anything, you would think that Cingular would want all their users on
equal footing. It is an insult to the NW and W coast that they are
excluded from a luxury that everyone else gets to take advantage of.
When you come from a Cingular TDMA area you get a cheaper national plan
and free GAIT phones to go all across the country- with few issues
raised about roaming. This does not apply in the reverse. We have to
go with spotty, thinly spread, GSM coverage.

Group Special Mobile <look@signature_to.reply> wrote in article
<[email protected]>:
> On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 03:08:17 -0000, [email protected] (William Bray)
> wrote:
>
> >I stepped into a Cingular store today, in Everett. I spoke with one of
> >the sales reps about the T62U. This chap stated that they had them in
> >storage but they couldn't sell them because Cingular couldn't make
> >figure out the billing.
> >Only last week I had talked with the store manager and the story I got
> >out of her was very different.
> >So far, out of several attempts to find out why GAIT phones were not
> >being sold in the Northwest I have gotten a different answer each time.
> >Do these guys even bother to get their stories straight?
>
> First of all cingular on the west coast has been GSM digital only from
> the outset. cingular on the west coast was formed out of Pacific Bell
> Wireless. PBW never had any analog (AMPS) service as they were not
> one of the original cellular providers. AT&T Wireless (under a
> different name) and Verizon (under a different name) were the original
> cellular providers.
>
> If cingular used GAIT phones in their west coast territories there is
> the potential that the networks accessed would not even be their own
> networks. They would much of the time be accessing ATTWS' TDMA and
> AMPS networks. They do not access these networks for free. They have
> to pay a roaming fee to ATTWS if they wish to use their network. The
> only native networks that cingular has on the west coast are their GSM
> networks.
>
> The only way to get GAIT service is to get service in a city that is
> served by cingular's TDMA (IS-136) network and then you'd be roaming
> all the time on the west coast (when you're not using cingular's GSM
> network.)
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> To send an email reply send to
> GSMthemobilestandard ( yahoo.com
>
> A. Top posters.
> Q. What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

[posted via phonescoop.com]

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 04:43:07 -0000, [email protected] (William Bray)
wrote:

>I realize that AT&T has the biggest foothold in the NW areas but
>Cingular and AT&T share that foothold in the south, with Cingular having
>a larger grasp in Texas.
>As GAIT phones were designed to run off GSM with TDMA as a secondary
>condition I see no reason why it wouldn't work in the NW. In Washington
>state GSM is found on the west coast, the central plains, and on into
>northern Idaho- most of it Cingular claims, but AT&T has.
>If anything, you would think that Cingular would want all their users on
>equal footing. It is an insult to the NW and W coast that they are
>excluded from a luxury that everyone else gets to take advantage of.
>When you come from a Cingular TDMA area you get a cheaper national plan
>and free GAIT phones to go all across the country- with few issues
>raised about roaming. This does not apply in the reverse. We have to
>go with spotty, thinly spread, GSM coverage.

It really doesn't matter if you do not think it's "fair" or not. The
point is that cingular was **never** a cellular carrier in California,
Nevada or Washington state. Cellular is 800 Mhz and was only offered
to two players in each market. cingular by and large everywhere
except on the west coast is a cellular carrier and is only a PCS
carrier on the west coast. If cingular wanted to market their GAIT
type phones in their west coast markets they would possibly be roaming
on a competitor's TDMA and AMPS network a significant amount of time.
This does not work to the company's benefit.

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[email protected] (William Bray) wrote in article
<[email protected]>:
> I realize that AT&T has the biggest foothold in the NW areas but
> Cingular and AT&T share that foothold in the south, with Cingular having
> a larger grasp in Texas.
> As GAIT phones were designed to run off GSM with TDMA as a secondary
> condition I see no reason why it wouldn't work in the NW. In Washington
> state GSM is found on the west coast, the central plains, and on into
> northern Idaho- most of it Cingular claims, but AT&T has.
> If anything, you would think that Cingular would want all their users on
> equal footing. It is an insult to the NW and W coast that they are
> excluded from a luxury that everyone else gets to take advantage of.

They were not excluded. Pacific Bell freely exited the
cellular market when they sold Airtouch; if they had kept
it, and everything else had unfolded as it did, Cingular
would have been TDMA in California as well, and would
eventually have GSM 800 (or 850).

Look at other areas, where both 800 Mhz carriers are
TDMA moving to GSM, i.e. AT&T and Cingular in Texas
and Florida. CDMA subscribers are stuck at 1900 Mhz
no matter if they are on Verizon or Sprint, but that's the
way it is, and no 800 Mhz TDMA/GSM carrier is going to
give up their sweet 800 Mhz spectrum to a competitor.

In a way, the TDMA/GSM subscribers are better off
because there is almost always at least one
TDMA/GSM network that will eventually be at 800
Mhz, but with CDMA you will have some areas that
are 1900 Mhz only. Perhaps there are some areas with
Verizon at 800 Mhz and another CDMA carrier also at
800 Mhz, but I'm not aware of any.

It is true that the western region of Cingular will remain
at a disadvantage compared to AT&T, but there is nothing
that they can do about it other than try to build more
cell sites to compensate. Obviously Cingular isn't
interested in having their subscribers roam onto a
competitor in places that Cingular has a presence.

What would be nice is if in each area, one CDMA carrier
was 800 Mhz, and one GSM carrier was 800 Mhz, and
while this is already the case in many areas, it isn't going
to happen nationwide.

[posted via phonescoop.com]

Cingular is already roaming in the NW. This is AT&T territory all the
way around (not forgetting CDMA). Cingular works out of the east coast
where it has it's own gear. Even on GSM Cingular is roaming over here.
There is something about GSM coverage that has a lot of folks willing to
cooperate.

Group Special Mobile <look@signature_to.reply> wrote in article
<[email protected]>:
> On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 04:43:07 -0000, [email protected] (William Bray)
> wrote:
>
> >I realize that AT&T has the biggest foothold in the NW areas but
> >Cingular and AT&T share that foothold in the south, with Cingular having
> >a larger grasp in Texas.
> >As GAIT phones were designed to run off GSM with TDMA as a secondary
> >condition I see no reason why it wouldn't work in the NW. In Washington
> >state GSM is found on the west coast, the central plains, and on into
> >northern Idaho- most of it Cingular claims, but AT&T has.
> >If anything, you would think that Cingular would want all their users on
> >equal footing. It is an insult to the NW and W coast that they are
> >excluded from a luxury that everyone else gets to take advantage of.
> >When you come from a Cingular TDMA area you get a cheaper national plan
> >and free GAIT phones to go all across the country- with few issues
> >raised about roaming. This does not apply in the reverse. We have to
> >go with spotty, thinly spread, GSM coverage.
>
> It really doesn't matter if you do not think it's "fair" or not. The
> point is that cingular was **never** a cellular carrier in California,
> Nevada or Washington state. Cellular is 800 Mhz and was only offered
> to two players in each market. cingular by and large everywhere
> except on the west coast is a cellular carrier and is only a PCS
> carrier on the west coast. If cingular wanted to market their GAIT
> type phones in their west coast markets they would possibly be roaming
> on a competitor's TDMA and AMPS network a significant amount of time.
> This does not work to the company's benefit.
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> To send an email reply send to
> GSMthemobilestandard ( yahoo.com

[posted via phonescoop.com]