GAIT Questions

"John" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%[email protected]...
>
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "John" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > > You'll still see Cingular Extend when you're on one of their Nation
> > > > plans. You'll just never see roaming, that's all.
> > > >
> > > I saw "Cingular Extend" for the first time today. It is still a free
> call?
> >
My understanding is that since GSM allows interop between carriers, Cingular
has deals with other carriers in the coverage area to "co-handle" traffic.
As an example, as i travel along I may be getting a stronger GSM signal from
AT&T than from Cingular, so that is the service my phone will talk to.
Since they have an interop agreement with Cingular, it shows up as AT&T on
my phone, but counts as Cingular minutes. If I get too far away from a GSM
tower, i may fall back to Cingular TDMA. That is when Cingular Extend shows
up as my banner. I will not be charged roaming since I am still in the
local Cingular market area, just not on GSM. All this is per a very helpful
and knowledgable rep at Customer service.

Tim N.

---

› See More: GAIT Questions

John S. wrote:
>>How do you get the 6340i to display a GSM icon? I can't tell whether I'm on
>>an analog network, TDMA or GSM!!
>
>
> I don't think that there is anything on the display.
>
> --
> John S.
> e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net

Easier -- Select 'Menu->Messages' scroll to 'Service Command Editor' if
it is greyed out, you are not in GSM mode, if it is not greyed out, you
are in GSM. During a call, if softkey (screen lower-right) says Hold,
you are in GSM; if it says Mute, you are not in GSM.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> "John" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:%[email protected]...
> >
> > "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > In article <[email protected]>,
> > > "John" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > You'll still see Cingular Extend when you're on one of their Nation
> > > > > plans. You'll just never see roaming, that's all.
> > > > >
> > > > I saw "Cingular Extend" for the first time today. It is still a free
> > call?
> > >
> My understanding is that since GSM allows interop between carriers, Cingular
> has deals with other carriers in the coverage area to "co-handle" traffic.
> As an example, as i travel along I may be getting a stronger GSM signal from
> AT&T than from Cingular, so that is the service my phone will talk to.
> Since they have an interop agreement with Cingular, it shows up as AT&T on
> my phone, but counts as Cingular minutes. If I get too far away from a GSM
> tower, i may fall back to Cingular TDMA. That is when Cingular Extend shows
> up as my banner. I will not be charged roaming since I am still in the
> local Cingular market area, just not on GSM. All this is per a very helpful
> and knowledgable rep at Customer service.
>
> Tim N.
>
>
>
I kinda question your "knowledgable rep". Although a lot of users,
especially in Calif, would LIKE full interop that has never been
advertised nor is it what people are actually reporting. For a GAIT
phone whose home area is GSM, if you loose a Cingular GSM signal the
phone will attempt to find Cingular TDMA. If unsuccessful it will then
look for a preferred GSM carrier and then a preferred TDMA carrier. If
you are within your home area roaming agreements apparently DO NOT allow
for another carrier to handle the call and either the phone won't
register with that carrier at all (if the IRDB is correct--seems to be
the most reported situaton) or if the IRDB is wrong the phone will lock
onto a carrier but an actual call won't complete without an error.

They seem to have really fxxxxd up with the "Cingular" and "Cingular
Extend" labels. So far in Texas it's been pretty clearcut--it says
"Cingular" if it's on a native Cingular system--it says "Cingular
Extend" if it's on any other carrier. I haven't been outside my plan
area (Texas statewide) yet but if it still shows "Cingular" in a city
outside the plan I would pay roaming charges and the label would be
useless. If it says "Cingular Extend" in that case it would be more
correct but then why bother--HOME and ROAM would have been more
meaningful.

Situations where there are no roaming charges but "home only" things
like "mobile-to-mobile minutes" or "nights/weekend minutes" aren't
available simply cannot be reflected with only two labels. They could
have done that with three labels: "Cingular" (no roaming charges, all
home-only features available), "Extend" (no roaming charges but home-
only features are not available), and "Roam" (roaming charges apply and
home-only features are not available). Personally I'd like to also see
the actual carrier name maybe on a 2nd line--like the GSM/TDMA/AMPS
indicator--not critical but "nice" to have.

Even if the IRDB by itself couldn't be used to determine the exact
status--that COULD easily be determined WHEN THE PHONE REGISTERS ON THE
SYSTEM. Someone check me on this but isn't a connection made then back
to your home system to setup call delivery, verify billing status, call
forwarding, voice mail forwarding etc. During that handshake the two
systems could easily figure out the roaming charge and extended feature
status and then send the info to the phone. Gee, more "nice" indicators
like RoamCharge/NO, VoiceMail/NO, SMS Delivery/NO, SMS-Send/NO,
SpecialFeatures/NO etc.

--
Jud
Dallas TX USA

Jud Hardcastle wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> says...
>
>>"John" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:%[email protected]...
>>
>>>"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>> "John" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>You'll still see Cingular Extend when you're on one of their Nation
>>>>>>plans. You'll just never see roaming, that's all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I saw "Cingular Extend" for the first time today. It is still a free
>>>>
>>>call?
>>>
>>My understanding is that since GSM allows interop between carriers, Cingular
>>has deals with other carriers in the coverage area to "co-handle" traffic.
>>As an example, as i travel along I may be getting a stronger GSM signal from
>>AT&T than from Cingular, so that is the service my phone will talk to.
>>Since they have an interop agreement with Cingular, it shows up as AT&T on
>>my phone, but counts as Cingular minutes. If I get too far away from a GSM
>>tower, i may fall back to Cingular TDMA. That is when Cingular Extend shows
>>up as my banner. I will not be charged roaming since I am still in the
>>local Cingular market area, just not on GSM. All this is per a very helpful
>>and knowledgable rep at Customer service.
>>
>>Tim N.
>>
>>
>>
>
> I kinda question your "knowledgable rep". Although a lot of users,
> especially in Calif, would LIKE full interop that has never been
> advertised nor is it what people are actually reporting. For a GAIT
> phone whose home area is GSM, if you loose a Cingular GSM signal the
> phone will attempt to find Cingular TDMA. If unsuccessful it will then
> look for a preferred GSM carrier and then a preferred TDMA carrier. If
> you are within your home area roaming agreements apparently DO NOT allow
> for another carrier to handle the call and either the phone won't
> register with that carrier at all (if the IRDB is correct--seems to be
> the most reported situaton) or if the IRDB is wrong the phone will lock
> onto a carrier but an actual call won't complete without an error.

This makes more sense to me than absolutely no roaming coverage in your
home area. I am on Preferred Nation, and when I am in my home area, I
often roam on AT&T. I know this because when I dial *89 to check my
voicemail, I have gotten a message from AT&T, "You are registered as
roaming", or "Welcome to AT&T Wireless Services. We're sorry, your
call could not be completed as dialed" or other like messages. Whether
or not SuperHome or Home plans that are TDMA can roam on AT&T...I don't
know.

> They seem to have really fxxxxd up with the "Cingular" and "Cingular
> Extend" labels. So far in Texas it's been pretty clearcut--it says
> "Cingular" if it's on a native Cingular system--it says "Cingular
> Extend" if it's on any other carrier. I haven't been outside my plan
> area (Texas statewide) yet but if it still shows "Cingular" in a city
> outside the plan I would pay roaming charges and the label would be
> useless. If it says "Cingular Extend" in that case it would be more
> correct but then why bother--HOME and ROAM would have been more
> meaningful.

From what I understand, Cingular and Cingular Extend apply only to the
Preferred Nation plans.

> Situations where there are no roaming charges but "home only" things
> like "mobile-to-mobile minutes" or "nights/weekend minutes" aren't
> available simply cannot be reflected with only two labels. They could
> have done that with three labels: "Cingular" (no roaming charges, all
> home-only features available), "Extend" (no roaming charges but home-
> only features are not available), and "Roam" (roaming charges apply and
> home-only features are not available). Personally I'd like to also see
> the actual carrier name maybe on a 2nd line--like the GSM/TDMA/AMPS
> indicator--not critical but "nice" to have.

On most plans, including Cingular Nation and Preferred Nation, included
features such as MTM or N/W minutes apply wherever your day minutes do.
I don't have MTM, but friends who call me when I'm on the Preferred
Nation network are billed MTM. My night/weekend minutes work all over
the place. I've used N/W minutes in Florida, Georgia, Tennessee,
Kentucky, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, North Dakota,
and South Dakota. Some plans may be different. Like the old Preferred
Nations that don't have *any* roaming at all.

> Even if the IRDB by itself couldn't be used to determine the exact
> status--that COULD easily be determined WHEN THE PHONE REGISTERS ON THE
> SYSTEM. Someone check me on this but isn't a connection made then back
> to your home system to setup call delivery, verify billing status, call
> forwarding, voice mail forwarding etc. During that handshake the two
> systems could easily figure out the roaming charge and extended feature
> status and then send the info to the phone. Gee, more "nice" indicators
> like RoamCharge/NO, VoiceMail/NO, SMS Delivery/NO, SMS-Send/NO,
> SpecialFeatures/NO etc.

That would be nice. However, it would take more than Cingular to
upgrade their current TDMA and GSM systems. It would talke ALL of
Cingular's roaming partners to upgrade their systems as well. Plus, if
a system didn't work with AMPS (analog), would it be better to cut out
the analog service, which can be a large part of a coverage area, for a
service that will work only is some areas? It seems that even TDMA uses
analog as a back up on a regular basis. I think that was the
intention of a GAIT phone, to use primarily GSM, then TDMA or analog as
a back up.

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