Is Cingular now all GSM?

The shopping malls are a gauntlet of cellphone dealers, that you have to
navigate. These people are as predatory as sharks and very aggressive.

Today, I was informed by a Cingular reseller, at a Boston area mall, that
Cingular is now all GSM. He said it happened in the last 3 weeks. All the
cellphones were GSM in the display case.

Is this guy for real?

---

› See More: Is Cingular now all GSM?

In a word....No! In your area, Cingular may have GSM at every cell site, and
95% of their markets will have overlays by the end of the month, but TDMA
still exists along side the GSM. Now, if the question is "Do I have to buy a
GSM phone if I want to buy one now?", the answer is....Yep! Either that or
GAIT (There are only two, no flip phones, no color displays on GAIT phones
.... just anticipating the usual questions ....and no, there probably won't
be any new model GAIT phones in the future.....)

Mark

"Pat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> The shopping malls are a gauntlet of cellphone dealers, that you have to
> navigate. These people are as predatory as sharks and very aggressive.
>
> Today, I was informed by a Cingular reseller, at a Boston area mall, that
> Cingular is now all GSM. He said it happened in the last 3 weeks. All the
> cellphones were GSM in the display case.
>
> Is this guy for real?
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003

I picked up a GAIT phone at a local Cingular store and they tried to talk me
out of it and into a GSM-only. TDMA is being "phased out", "that's the old
network". They are obviously on a commision program that favors GSM, and
they are not thinking of my needs here. I knew better... and I want
coverage where I know GSM would not be available.

Most of the Cingular stores in the Boston area likely have at least the
6340i GAIT so you can get TDMA/GSM/AMPS. Just don't ask them what GAIT
stands for....they probably wont know.


"Mark W. Oots" <mark_ctc@(delete this)ameritech.net> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> In a word....No! In your area, Cingular may have GSM at every cell site,
and
> 95% of their markets will have overlays by the end of the month, but TDMA
> still exists along side the GSM. Now, if the question is "Do I have to buy
a
> GSM phone if I want to buy one now?", the answer is....Yep! Either that or
> GAIT (There are only two, no flip phones, no color displays on GAIT phones
> ... just anticipating the usual questions ....and no, there probably won't
> be any new model GAIT phones in the future.....)
>
> Mark
>
> "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news[email protected]...
> > The shopping malls are a gauntlet of cellphone dealers, that you have to
> > navigate. These people are as predatory as sharks and very aggressive.
> >
> > Today, I was informed by a Cingular reseller, at a Boston area mall,
that
> > Cingular is now all GSM. He said it happened in the last 3 weeks. All
the
> > cellphones were GSM in the display case.
> >
> > Is this guy for real?
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003
>
>

> Just don't ask them what GAIT
>stands for....they probably wont know.
>

....my question exactly: I'm a musician on the road, and I've GOT to have the
best possible coverage; the Cingular salesgirl sold me the Nokia 6340i about 6
weeks ago, and she said that Cingular wouldn't be all GSM for another
year...anyway, would one of you kind, fine folks explain GAIT to me and how it
works? Muchas gracias,
Aaron Worley

On 05 Dec 2003 07:18:33 GMT, [email protected]nkbgone (Aaron
Worley) wrote:

>...my question exactly: I'm a musician on the road, and I've GOT to have the
>best possible coverage; the Cingular salesgirl sold me the Nokia 6340i about 6
>weeks ago, and she said that Cingular wouldn't be all GSM for another
>year...anyway, would one of you kind, fine folks explain GAIT to me and how it
>works?

GAIT: GSM ANSI Interoperability Team. A GAIT handset is a handset
that has the capability of using GSM, TDMA (IS-136) and analog AMPS.
The handset is optomized to choose which networks it connects to in a
specific order. I believe (though am not 100% sure on this) that its
first preference is for GSM networks. It will then choose TDMA
(IS-136) networks and finally if neither GSM or TDMA IS-136 networks
are available it will chose an analog AMPS network. In theory anyway
this will give you the best coverage available provided that you can
access GSM, TDMA or AMPS networks. From what I understand there's no
smooth handoff between GSM or TDMA to the other modes so if you lose
signal your call will drop and your party will have to call you again
or you'll have to call them again.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
To send an email reply send to
GSMthemobilestandard ( yahoo.com

Aaron Worley wrote:
>>Just don't ask them what GAIT
>>stands for....they probably wont know.
>>
>
>
> ...my question exactly: I'm a musician on the road, and I've GOT to have the
> best possible coverage; the Cingular salesgirl sold me the Nokia 6340i about 6
> weeks ago, and she said that Cingular wouldn't be all GSM for another
> year...anyway, would one of you kind, fine folks explain GAIT to me and how it
> works? Muchas gracias,
> Aaron Worley

There isn't a whole lot to it. GAIT stands for GSM/ANSI-136
Interoperability Team. ANSI-136 is a more technical name for the TDMA
standard that is widely used with Cingular and AT&T. It works much like
a TDMA/AMPS phone, where the phone will try to attain acceptable TDMA
signal before it will attain AMPS signal.

If am not totally correct, please correct me if I am wrong.
GAIT phones, unless set otherwise, will have a GSM home preference, then
TDMA home preference, then AMPS home preference. After that it will go
to the most preferred GSM roaming partner, then the most preferred TDMA
partner, then the most preferred AMPS roaming partner. The idea with
GSM being the preferred technology is that the phone, after the TDMA to
GSM transition, the phone will work fine with new GSM system, but still
have TDMA/AMPS as an additional fallback.

==AD

> GAIT: GSM ANSI Interoperability Team. A GAIT handset is a handset
> that has the capability of using GSM, TDMA (IS-136) and analog AMPS.
> The handset is optomized to choose which networks it connects to in a
> specific order. I believe (though am not 100% sure on this) that its
> first preference is for GSM networks. It will then choose TDMA
> (IS-136) networks and finally if neither GSM or TDMA IS-136 networks
> are available it will chose an analog AMPS network. In theory anyway
> this will give you the best coverage available provided that you can
> access GSM, TDMA or AMPS networks. From what I understand there's no
> smooth handoff between GSM or TDMA to the other modes so if you lose
> signal your call will drop and your party will have to call you again
> or you'll have to call them again.
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> To send an email reply send to
> GSMthemobilestandard ( yahoo.com

There is a smooth handoff between TDMA and AMPS, and AMPS to TDMA. I
have not actually used my GSM mode yet, as I've been roaming in
TDMA/AMPS territory since I got my phone. I should start picking up a
GSM signal by the end of the year via Western Wireless.

==AD

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on 05 Dec 2003 07:18:33 GMT,
[email protected]nkbgone (Aaron Worley) wrote:

>> Just don't ask them what GAIT
>>stands for....they probably wont know.
>
>...my question exactly: I'm a musician on the road, and I've GOT to have the
>best possible coverage; the Cingular salesgirl sold me the Nokia 6340i about 6
>weeks ago, and she said that Cingular wouldn't be all GSM for another
>year...anyway, would one of you kind, fine folks explain GAIT to me and how it
>works? ...

While GAIT will give you the "best possible coverage," actual coverage is
governed by the programming of the SIM, and it won't necessarily give you the
best possible signal in any event. From prior posts by me:

========================================================================

Which network the phone will select depends on how the phone is
programmed (on the SIM) by the carrier. There are four different modes
of GAIT operation:

* GSM Native Mode: This is where the mobile is homed to a GSM
network and is operating on a GSM network. In this mode, the mobile
is able to perform standard GSM type functions including SMS and Data
services (circuit switched at 9600 or 14400 bps and packet switched
service if it is offered).

* ANSI-136 Native Mode: This is where the mobile is homed to an
ANSI-136 network and is operating on an ANSI-136 network. In this
mode, the mobile is able to perform standard ANSI-136 functions
including text messaging using GHOST SMS and Data services (circuit
switched at 9600 bps).

* GSM Foreign Mode: This is where the mobile is homed to an
ANSI-136 network but is operating on a GSM network. At this time, the
GSM portion of the phone is operational and the network's
Interworking and Interoperability Function (IIF) handles the call
delivery and SMS routing from the ANSI-136 network to the serving GSM
network.

* ANSI-136 Foreign Mode: This is where a GSM native subscriber is
accessing an ANSI-136 network. Again, routing of calls and SMS is
handled by the network's Interworking and Interoperability Function.

In short, a GAIT phone will be "homed" to either GSM or ANSI-136 (TDMA).
Network selection will be based on standard mechanisms in both
technologies.

Suppose that the GAIT phone scans for service and determines that there
are two networks available for selection, an ANSI-136 Neutral system and
a GSM Neutral system. If the PPI (Protocol Priority Indicator) is set to
ANSI-136 Preferred, then the mobile selects the ANSI-136 Neutral system.
Conversely, if the PPI is set to GSM Preferred, then the mobile selects
the GSM Neutral system.

Suppose that the GAIT phone scans for service and determines that there
are two network available for selection, an ANSI-136 Group A (Home)
system and a GSM Group B (Preferred) system. The mobile selects the
ANSI-136 system even if the signal is better on the GSM system.

Network selection is a function of preferences configured by the
carrier, not signal strength. It doesn't matter that the signal might
be better on the other technology.

========================================================================

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Selection of network is controlled by GAIT SIM programming by the
carrier. The phone will be "homed" to either GSM or TDMA (ANSI-136),
and selection of network will be done by standard mechanisms in those
technologies (Home, Preferred, etc.).

* If a GAIT phone finds both a usable GSM Group B (Preferred) network
and a usable TDMA Group A (Home) network, then the phone selects the
TDMA network, regardless of relative signal strengths, and vice versa.
Home takes precedence over Preferred.

* If a GAIT phone finds both a usable GSM network and a usable TDMA
network of the same priority (e.g., Preferred), and the phone is homed
to TDMA, then the phone selects the TDMA network, regardless of relative
signal strengths. Conversely, if the phone is homed to GSM, then it
selects the GSM network, regardless of relative signal strengths.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you are in an area where GSM is not usable and non-Cingular ANSI-136
is usable, whether or not a Cingular GAIT phone would work on ANSI-136
would depend on the type of available ANSI-136 network. The phone would
select a Partner, Favored, or Neutral network, in descending order, if
there were any such network(s) with usable signal(s). It would not
select a Forbidden network, except for emergency calls.

So whether or not *any* (GSM-homed or TDMA-homed) Cingular GAIT phone
would work on TDMA in a GSM-only area (e.g., California) would depend on
(1) TDMA roaming agreement(s) by Cingular, and (2) programming by
Cingular to reflect those roaming agreements. I doubt that anyone here
knows for sure the answers to those questions, and I suspect it might be
hard to get that information from Cingular, leaving us only with
speculation; i.e., we can't say for sure one way or the other.

========================================================================

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

I have my 6340i in field test mode much of the time and it always goes
to the 21 section and looks for DCCH(TDMA) and ACCH(AMPS)first before
the 01 section and CCCH(GSM). When home on the east side of Detroit,
I am on DCCH(TDMA) most of the time and the last time I went over to
the gallery on the west side to pick up my load it stayed on DCCH all
over town. Right now it is 'camping' on DCCH. I don't know if this
occurs because I came from the TDMA Nation Plan.

Chris
Please respond on Usenet



Aboutdakota <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Aaron Worley wrote:
> >>Just don't ask them what GAIT
> >>stands for....they probably wont know.
> >>
> >
> >
> > ...my question exactly: I'm a musician on the road, and I've GOT to have the
> > best possible coverage; the Cingular salesgirl sold me the Nokia 6340i about 6
> > weeks ago, and she said that Cingular wouldn't be all GSM for another
> > year...anyway, would one of you kind, fine folks explain GAIT to me and how it
> > works? Muchas gracias,
> > Aaron Worley
>
> There isn't a whole lot to it. GAIT stands for GSM/ANSI-136
> Interoperability Team. ANSI-136 is a more technical name for the TDMA
> standard that is widely used with Cingular and AT&T. It works much like
> a TDMA/AMPS phone, where the phone will try to attain acceptable TDMA
> signal before it will attain AMPS signal.
>
> If am not totally correct, please correct me if I am wrong.
> GAIT phones, unless set otherwise, will have a GSM home preference, then
> TDMA home preference, then AMPS home preference. After that it will go
> to the most preferred GSM roaming partner, then the most preferred TDMA
> partner, then the most preferred AMPS roaming partner. The idea with
> GSM being the preferred technology is that the phone, after the TDMA to
> GSM transition, the phone will work fine with new GSM system, but still
> have TDMA/AMPS as an additional fallback.
>
> ==AD

This is the Gait phone I found on Cingular.

http://tinyurl.com/y0mj

In the Greater Boston area and local regions around RTE495, does it nicely
flow between the various towers based on signal strength or does it try to
use GSM and only go to TDMA when there is no GSM or so weak a GSM there is
no other option than TDMA?





"Mark W. Oots" <mark_ctc@(delete this)ameritech.net> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> In a word....No! In your area, Cingular may have GSM at every cell site,
and
> 95% of their markets will have overlays by the end of the month, but TDMA
> still exists along side the GSM. Now, if the question is "Do I have to buy
a
> GSM phone if I want to buy one now?", the answer is....Yep! Either that or
> GAIT (There are only two, no flip phones, no color displays on GAIT phones
> ... just anticipating the usual questions ....and no, there probably won't
> be any new model GAIT phones in the future.....)
>
> Mark
>
> "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news[email protected]...
> > The shopping malls are a gauntlet of cellphone dealers, that you have to
> > navigate. These people are as predatory as sharks and very aggressive.
> >
> > Today, I was informed by a Cingular reseller, at a Boston area mall,
that
> > Cingular is now all GSM. He said it happened in the last 3 weeks. All
the
> > cellphones were GSM in the display case.
> >
> > Is this guy for real?
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003
>
>

In article <[email protected]>,
"Pat" <[email protected]> wrote:

> This is the Gait phone I found on Cingular.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/y0mj

This link doesn't work for me.

--
Please reply to the group, not by email. The email address in the
header is not valid unless you remove the obvious.

"Chris Russell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have my 6340i in field test mode much of the time and it always goes
> to the 21 section and looks for DCCH(TDMA) and ACCH(AMPS)first before
> the 01 section and CCCH(GSM). When home on the east side of Detroit,
> I am on DCCH(TDMA) most of the time and the last time I went over to
> the gallery on the west side to pick up my load it stayed on DCCH all
> over town. Right now it is 'camping' on DCCH. I don't know if this
> occurs because I came from the TDMA Nation Plan.
>
> Chris
> Please respond on Usenet

Cingular sets the 6340i to TDMA preferred or GSM preferred depending on your
home market. When I got mine, it was set to TDMA preferred as yours is, but
then about a week before they turned on GSM here, it was changed to GSM
preferred. I started picking up GSM before it went live and only get TDMA
when there is no GSM signal.

Tom

OK, then: how exactly do you tell what mode the phone is in, on a 6340i?
Aaron Worley

In article <[email protected]>, aworley11896
@aol.comjnkbgone says...
>
> OK, then: how exactly do you tell what mode the phone is in, on a 6340i?
> Aaron Worley
>

Quickest way I've found: select menu--select messages--scroll up two
clicks to "Service command editor". If it's grayed out you're NOT on
GSM. Some of the call forwarding options are also grayed out on
TDMA/amps and the options themselves behave differently. On GSM, if
call forwarding is active (or you have voicemail) when you PLACE a call
you'll hear a beep and the display will say something like "call
forwarding active". The only way I've found to distinguish TDMA from
AMPS is via the field test screens--and the lack of SMS messages :-)

PITA. Why couldn't they have a G/T/A indicator--oh I forget--the poor
consumer isn't supposed to know or care which system he's on--right.
--
Jud
Dallas TX USA

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 16:23:20 GMT, Jud Hardcastle
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, aworley11896
>@aol.comjnkbgone says...
>>
>> OK, then: how exactly do you tell what mode the phone is in, on a 6340i?
>> Aaron Worley
>>
While on a call if the lower right corner displays "MUTE" , you are on
TDMA or analog. If Hold is displayed you are on GSM.