The start of my small little cellular phone web site.

Don't know what your station's transmitter is, but what you're hearing
is what the guitar players have known for years. Distortion is not
all bad. That's why guitar players prefer TUBE amplifiers, as do
Hammond organ players. The fuller, "rounder" sound comes about
because of the bandpass curve of interstage and output transformers
and filters throughout the system.

I assume you're listening to FM, but even FM has several limits. RIAA
equalization, the response curve put into the music before it's
recorded, is designed to taylor the music to fit on a standard stereo
FM transmitter. FM's audio passband is from 50 to 15000 Hz. It's not
DC to daylight. The FM transmitter's modulation spectrum looks like
this for stereo FM


50Hz....................15Khz 19Khz 23Khz..........53Khz 60-70Khz
Left+Right mono audio Pilot L minus R audio Musak NBFM
Tone

To get left and right audio, there's a receiver inside the receiver,
tuned to 38 Khz after the FM detector. This receiver is actually AM.
There's very little noise, anyway. The output from this subcarrier
receiver is Left MINUS right audio. Right is backwards phase (180
degrees) from the Right audio on the main mono channel.

if we feed both the output of the subcarrier receiver to the main
audio, the right channel audio cancels out and we're left with Left
Channel audio. If we INVERT the phase of the subcarrier audio and add
it to the main audio, the LEFT channel cancels out and we get right
audio. There, now you have the Left and Right we started with. This
was invented before "digital" anything....strictly analog in nature.
It's still very ingenious and very simple to build receivers for.
But, as you can see, there are no "highs" above the 15 Khz limit, no
matter what the audiofool hype. 99.9% of the music is well below this
limit. It sounds great. The 50 Hz lower limit is caused by the limit
of using phase modulators on old transmitters and that POS consumer
receiver with the coupling capacitors between stages. It was agreed
to be the lower limit, probably before you were born. FM has other
maladies that are overcome by putting a slope in the modulation audio
curve at the transmitter, but before you hear it, we pass it through a
backwards slope after the detector to flatten it back out and reduce
the hissing noise on your end, similar to what was done to tape. It's
called "pre-emphasis" at the transmitter and "de-emphasis" at the
receiver.

The CDs aren't restricted to these limits, on new music. Old
recordings may be enhanced, but old recordings were still RIAA
equalization standardized for FM transmission (50-15000 Hz). Hype and
imagination hasn't changed that.

It's all about getting your music played on the air so it will SELL at
the record shops.....the only reason to record the music in the first
place....M-O-N-E-Y.





On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 17:56:33 -0800, Steve Vai <****[email protected]> wrote:

>On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:21:00 GMT, [email protected] (Larry W4CSC) wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 01:30:27 GMT, Al Klein <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>We used to use Level Devils and companders. We could have saved a lot
>>>of money.
>>>--
>>>Al - rukbat at optonline dot net
>>
>>As long as the kiddies are allowed to play with the knobs in what's
>>left of the studios, there will always be a need for a compander at
>>the transmitter to adjust the levels for them...(c;
>>
>>Of course, the transmitter is now digitized and refuses to
>>overmodulate, in any event, but we still let them think overmodulation
>>will "get out further", like always....
>>
>>A 50KW AM station is amazingly efficient, now. Take a look:
>>http://hawkins.pair.com/radio.html
>>The best look at the 50KW Harris AM transmitter is on:
>>http://hawkins.pair.com/wabcnow.shtml#digmodsect
>>
>>It ain't your grandpa's 50KW monster any more....
>
>hey larry, u seem to know a lot about radio/transmission etc... maybe
>i'm tripping but to me a song played over the radio actually sounds
>BETTER than the cd. thats if the station is 100% clear. i'm not sure
>why but it sorta sounds bigger, or has more highs and sounds ***ller
>or something...someone told me its because the engineers at the
>station mix the levels before its broadcast, but i dunno....people say
>im high the cd sounds better etc but not to me.


Larry W4CSC

"Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!"

---

› See More: The start of my small little cellular phone web site.

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:55:24 GMT, [email protected] (Larry W4CSC) wrote:

>Don't know what your station's transmitter is, but what you're hearing
>is what the guitar players have known for years. Distortion is not
>all bad. That's why guitar players prefer TUBE amplifiers, as do
>Hammond organ players. The fuller, "rounder" sound comes about
>because of the bandpass curve of interstage and output transformers
>and filters throughout the system.
>
>I assume you're listening to FM, but even FM has several limits. RIAA
>equalization, the response curve put into the music before it's
>recorded, is designed to taylor the music to fit on a standard stereo
>FM transmitter. FM's audio passband is from 50 to 15000 Hz. It's not
>DC to daylight. The FM transmitter's modulation spectrum looks like
>this for stereo FM
>
>
>50Hz....................15Khz 19Khz 23Khz..........53Khz 60-70Khz
>Left+Right mono audio Pilot L minus R audio Musak NBFM
> Tone
>
>To get left and right audio, there's a receiver inside the receiver,
>tuned to 38 Khz after the FM detector. This receiver is actually AM.
>There's very little noise, anyway. The output from this subcarrier
>receiver is Left MINUS right audio. Right is backwards phase (180
>degrees) from the Right audio on the main mono channel.
>
>if we feed both the output of the subcarrier receiver to the main
>audio, the right channel audio cancels out and we're left with Left
>Channel audio. If we INVERT the phase of the subcarrier audio and add
>it to the main audio, the LEFT channel cancels out and we get right
>audio. There, now you have the Left and Right we started with. This
>was invented before "digital" anything....strictly analog in nature.
>It's still very ingenious and very simple to build receivers for.
>But, as you can see, there are no "highs" above the 15 Khz limit, no
>matter what the audiofool hype. 99.9% of the music is well below this
>limit. It sounds great. The 50 Hz lower limit is caused by the limit
>of using phase modulators on old transmitters and that POS consumer
>receiver with the coupling capacitors between stages. It was agreed
>to be the lower limit, probably before you were born. FM has other
>maladies that are overcome by putting a slope in the modulation audio
>curve at the transmitter, but before you hear it, we pass it through a
>backwards slope after the detector to flatten it back out and reduce
>the hissing noise on your end, similar to what was done to tape. It's
>called "pre-emphasis" at the transmitter and "de-emphasis" at the
>receiver.
>
>The CDs aren't restricted to these limits, on new music. Old
>recordings may be enhanced, but old recordings were still RIAA
>equalization standardized for FM transmission (50-15000 Hz). Hype and
>imagination hasn't changed that.

dude....u just confused the hell out of me LOL.

the stations i listen to are mostly classic rock, but even the newer
stuff (90's) by ac/dc and others still sounds better than the cd.

so whats the meat & potatos on this? am i just nuts and i think it
sounds better? like the people that say coke/beer tastes better from a
bottle than it does from a can?

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:55:24 GMT, [email protected] (Larry W4CSC) wrote:

>Don't know what your station's transmitter is, but what you're hearing
>is what the guitar players have known for years. Distortion is not
>all bad. That's why guitar players prefer TUBE amplifiers, as do
>Hammond organ players. The fuller, "rounder" sound comes about
>because of the bandpass curve of interstage and output transformers
>and filters throughout the system.
>
>I assume you're listening to FM, but even FM has several limits. RIAA
>equalization, the response curve put into the music before it's
>recorded, is designed to taylor the music to fit on a standard stereo
>FM transmitter. FM's audio passband is from 50 to 15000 Hz. It's not
>DC to daylight. The FM transmitter's modulation spectrum looks like
>this for stereo FM
>
>
>50Hz....................15Khz 19Khz 23Khz..........53Khz 60-70Khz
>Left+Right mono audio Pilot L minus R audio Musak NBFM
> Tone
>
>To get left and right audio, there's a receiver inside the receiver,
>tuned to 38 Khz after the FM detector. This receiver is actually AM.
>There's very little noise, anyway. The output from this subcarrier
>receiver is Left MINUS right audio. Right is backwards phase (180
>degrees) from the Right audio on the main mono channel.
>
>if we feed both the output of the subcarrier receiver to the main
>audio, the right channel audio cancels out and we're left with Left
>Channel audio. If we INVERT the phase of the subcarrier audio and add
>it to the main audio, the LEFT channel cancels out and we get right
>audio. There, now you have the Left and Right we started with. This
>was invented before "digital" anything....strictly analog in nature.
>It's still very ingenious and very simple to build receivers for.
>But, as you can see, there are no "highs" above the 15 Khz limit, no
>matter what the audiofool hype. 99.9% of the music is well below this
>limit. It sounds great. The 50 Hz lower limit is caused by the limit
>of using phase modulators on old transmitters and that POS consumer
>receiver with the coupling capacitors between stages. It was agreed
>to be the lower limit, probably before you were born. FM has other
>maladies that are overcome by putting a slope in the modulation audio
>curve at the transmitter, but before you hear it, we pass it through a
>backwards slope after the detector to flatten it back out and reduce
>the hissing noise on your end, similar to what was done to tape. It's
>called "pre-emphasis" at the transmitter and "de-emphasis" at the
>receiver.
>
>The CDs aren't restricted to these limits, on new music. Old
>recordings may be enhanced, but old recordings were still RIAA
>equalization standardized for FM transmission (50-15000 Hz). Hype and
>imagination hasn't changed that.

dude....u just confused the hell out of me LOL.

the stations i listen to are mostly classic rock, but even the newer
stuff (90's) by ac/dc and others still sounds better than the cd.

so whats the meat & potatos on this? am i just nuts and i think it
sounds better? like the people that say coke/beer tastes better from a
bottle than it does from a can?

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:36:38 -0800, Steve Vai <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>so whats the meat & potatos on this? am i just nuts and i think it
>sounds better? like the people that say coke/beer tastes better from a
>bottle than it does from a can?

It sounds better because of its RESTRICTED audio bandwidth. It's
smoother, just like a guitar played through an old Fender tube amp.
The limited audio bandwidth of a tube amp has been enhancing the sound
of musical instruments since they were invented. Demand for tube amps
is still very strong. Even Hammond still builds tube amps for their
original Leslie speaker boxes for that original Hammond sound, even
though the sound is now synthesized. Pass it through tube amps and
their audio transformers and it sounds original...(c;



Larry W4CSC

"Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!"

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:36:38 -0800, Steve Vai <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>so whats the meat & potatos on this? am i just nuts and i think it
>sounds better? like the people that say coke/beer tastes better from a
>bottle than it does from a can?

It sounds better because of its RESTRICTED audio bandwidth. It's
smoother, just like a guitar played through an old Fender tube amp.
The limited audio bandwidth of a tube amp has been enhancing the sound
of musical instruments since they were invented. Demand for tube amps
is still very strong. Even Hammond still builds tube amps for their
original Leslie speaker boxes for that original Hammond sound, even
though the sound is now synthesized. Pass it through tube amps and
their audio transformers and it sounds original...(c;



Larry W4CSC

"Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!"

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 14:54:30 GMT, [email protected] (Larry W4CSC) wrote:

>On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:36:38 -0800, Steve Vai <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>so whats the meat & potatos on this? am i just nuts and i think it
>>sounds better? like the people that say coke/beer tastes better from a
>>bottle than it does from a can?
>
>It sounds better because of its RESTRICTED audio bandwidth. It's
>smoother, just like a guitar played through an old Fender tube amp.
>The limited audio bandwidth of a tube amp has been enhancing the sound
>of musical instruments since they were invented. Demand for tube amps
>is still very strong. Even Hammond still builds tube amps for their
>original Leslie speaker boxes for that original Hammond sound, even
>though the sound is now synthesized. Pass it through tube amps and
>their audio transformers and it sounds original...(c;


ahhh, interesting....

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 14:54:30 GMT, [email protected] (Larry W4CSC) wrote:

>On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:36:38 -0800, Steve Vai <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>so whats the meat & potatos on this? am i just nuts and i think it
>>sounds better? like the people that say coke/beer tastes better from a
>>bottle than it does from a can?
>
>It sounds better because of its RESTRICTED audio bandwidth. It's
>smoother, just like a guitar played through an old Fender tube amp.
>The limited audio bandwidth of a tube amp has been enhancing the sound
>of musical instruments since they were invented. Demand for tube amps
>is still very strong. Even Hammond still builds tube amps for their
>original Leslie speaker boxes for that original Hammond sound, even
>though the sound is now synthesized. Pass it through tube amps and
>their audio transformers and it sounds original...(c;


ahhh, interesting....

"Larry W4CSC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<snipped some good crap here>

: 50Hz....................15Khz 19Khz 23Khz..........53Khz 60-70Khz
: Left+Right mono audio Pilot L minus R audio Musak NBFM
: Tone
:
: To get left and right audio, there's a receiver inside the receiver,
: tuned to 38 Khz after the FM detector. This receiver is actually AM.
: There's very little noise, anyway. The output from this subcarrier
: receiver is Left MINUS right audio. Right is backwards phase (180
: degrees) from the Right audio on the main mono channel.
:
: if we feed both the output of the subcarrier receiver to the main
: audio, the right channel audio cancels out and we're left with Left
: Channel audio. If we INVERT the phase of the subcarrier audio and add
: it to the main audio, the LEFT channel cancels out and we get right
: audio. There, now you have the Left and Right we started with. This
: was invented before "digital" anything....strictly analog in nature.

larry:
Do we all pass Elements 1,2 and 9 for understanding that?
(I think that is what I had to pass to get on college radio in the 70's)
I remember the 19kHz and the addition/subraction to get left and right...

"Larry W4CSC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<snipped some good crap here>

: 50Hz....................15Khz 19Khz 23Khz..........53Khz 60-70Khz
: Left+Right mono audio Pilot L minus R audio Musak NBFM
: Tone
:
: To get left and right audio, there's a receiver inside the receiver,
: tuned to 38 Khz after the FM detector. This receiver is actually AM.
: There's very little noise, anyway. The output from this subcarrier
: receiver is Left MINUS right audio. Right is backwards phase (180
: degrees) from the Right audio on the main mono channel.
:
: if we feed both the output of the subcarrier receiver to the main
: audio, the right channel audio cancels out and we're left with Left
: Channel audio. If we INVERT the phase of the subcarrier audio and add
: it to the main audio, the LEFT channel cancels out and we get right
: audio. There, now you have the Left and Right we started with. This
: was invented before "digital" anything....strictly analog in nature.

larry:
Do we all pass Elements 1,2 and 9 for understanding that?
(I think that is what I had to pass to get on college radio in the 70's)
I remember the 19kHz and the addition/subraction to get left and right...

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:48:06 GMT, "The Unknown Poster"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Larry W4CSC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
><snipped some good crap here>
>
>: 50Hz....................15Khz 19Khz 23Khz..........53Khz 60-70Khz
>: Left+Right mono audio Pilot L minus R audio Musak NBFM
>: Tone
>:
>: To get left and right audio, there's a receiver inside the receiver,
>: tuned to 38 Khz after the FM detector. This receiver is actually AM.
>: There's very little noise, anyway. The output from this subcarrier
>: receiver is Left MINUS right audio. Right is backwards phase (180
>: degrees) from the Right audio on the main mono channel.
>:
>: if we feed both the output of the subcarrier receiver to the main
>: audio, the right channel audio cancels out and we're left with Left
>: Channel audio. If we INVERT the phase of the subcarrier audio and add
>: it to the main audio, the LEFT channel cancels out and we get right
>: audio. There, now you have the Left and Right we started with. This
>: was invented before "digital" anything....strictly analog in nature.
>
>larry:
>Do we all pass Elements 1,2 and 9 for understanding that?
>(I think that is what I had to pass to get on college radio in the 70's)
>I remember the 19kHz and the addition/subraction to get left and right...
>
You don't even need a license to operate WABC-TV, AM or FM, now!

The GROL is so useless, they decided only marine and aviation techs
needed it, now.

My 1st Phone with Radar Endorsement hangs in a nice frame over my
desk. My GROL they shoved down my throat to replace it is hidden away
in a drawer to hide my shame of the licensed broadcast technician's
demise.

Credit is easy. FCC GIVES you the question bank and all the answers
so the "less fortunate" can pass it, now. When I took my test,
questions began with "Draw" or "Discuss" or "Explain". There weren't
any multiple guess questions to memorize the answers. If the FCC guy
didn't like your looks, YOU FAILED.....(c;

If you didn't LOOK like an FCC technician, they certainly weren't
going to give you a license, either!



Larry W4CSC

"Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!"

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:48:06 GMT, "The Unknown Poster"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Larry W4CSC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
><snipped some good crap here>
>
>: 50Hz....................15Khz 19Khz 23Khz..........53Khz 60-70Khz
>: Left+Right mono audio Pilot L minus R audio Musak NBFM
>: Tone
>:
>: To get left and right audio, there's a receiver inside the receiver,
>: tuned to 38 Khz after the FM detector. This receiver is actually AM.
>: There's very little noise, anyway. The output from this subcarrier
>: receiver is Left MINUS right audio. Right is backwards phase (180
>: degrees) from the Right audio on the main mono channel.
>:
>: if we feed both the output of the subcarrier receiver to the main
>: audio, the right channel audio cancels out and we're left with Left
>: Channel audio. If we INVERT the phase of the subcarrier audio and add
>: it to the main audio, the LEFT channel cancels out and we get right
>: audio. There, now you have the Left and Right we started with. This
>: was invented before "digital" anything....strictly analog in nature.
>
>larry:
>Do we all pass Elements 1,2 and 9 for understanding that?
>(I think that is what I had to pass to get on college radio in the 70's)
>I remember the 19kHz and the addition/subraction to get left and right...
>
You don't even need a license to operate WABC-TV, AM or FM, now!

The GROL is so useless, they decided only marine and aviation techs
needed it, now.

My 1st Phone with Radar Endorsement hangs in a nice frame over my
desk. My GROL they shoved down my throat to replace it is hidden away
in a drawer to hide my shame of the licensed broadcast technician's
demise.

Credit is easy. FCC GIVES you the question bank and all the answers
so the "less fortunate" can pass it, now. When I took my test,
questions began with "Draw" or "Discuss" or "Explain". There weren't
any multiple guess questions to memorize the answers. If the FCC guy
didn't like your looks, YOU FAILED.....(c;

If you didn't LOOK like an FCC technician, they certainly weren't
going to give you a license, either!



Larry W4CSC

"Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!"

"Larry W4CSC" <[email protected]> wrote in message =
news:[email protected]...
>=20
> You don't even need a license to operate WABC-TV, AM or FM, now!
>=20
> The GROL is so useless, they decided only marine and aviation techs
> needed it, now.
>=20
> My 1st Phone with Radar Endorsement hangs in a nice frame over my
> desk. My GROL they shoved down my throat to replace it is hidden away
> in a drawer to hide my shame of the licensed broadcast technician's
> demise.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Larry W4CSC
> =20

Yep!
Back in the early fifties, I got a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator's =
Permit,
so I could work as a dispatcher.
Later, I needed that permit as an airplane pilot.
In the early sixties, when I got my First-Class Commercial =
Radiotelephone
Operator's license, they *cancelled* my Restricted Permit.
When they terminated the First Class 'Phone, that left me licenseless,
but pilots no longer needed the Permit for domestic U.S. aviation.

Fortunately, Canada rarely asks tourists if we possess radio-operator's =
licenses.
(Heck, the FCC no longer even makes us license our aircraft =
transmitters.)
---JRC---

"Larry W4CSC" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> You don't even need a license to operate WABC-TV, AM or FM, now!
>
> The GROL is so useless, they decided only marine and aviation techs
> needed it, now.
>
> My 1st Phone with Radar Endorsement hangs in a nice frame over my
> desk. My GROL they shoved down my throat to replace it is hidden away
> in a drawer to hide my shame of the licensed broadcast technician's
> demise.
>
>
>
> Larry W4CSC
>

Yep!
Back in the early fifties, I got a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator's Permit,
so I could work as a dispatcher.
Later, I needed that permit as an airplane pilot.
In the early sixties, when I got my First-Class Commercial Radiotelephone
Operator's license, they *cancelled* my Restricted Permit.
When they terminated the First Class 'Phone, that left me licenseless,
but pilots no longer needed the Permit for domestic U.S. aviation.

Fortunately, Canada rarely asks tourists if we possess radio-operator's licenses.
(Heck, the FCC no longer even makes us license our aircraft transmitters.)
---JRC---