RE: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

John Richards wrote:
>
> And 90% of the posters in Microsoft newsgroups top-post, what does
> that tell you?

I don't know. Maybe only that most of them use Outlook and OE, which
encourage top posting by putting the cursor at the top when you reply?
Might not tell you anything more than that.

-Quick

---

› See More: RE: Top posting (Was: cell phone use in hospitals)

"Joseph" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 02:49:26 GMT, "Steve B" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>I hate having to scroll when bottom-posters do not snip the unimportant
>>parts of a posting...
>
> I hate having to scroll when top posters do not snip the unimportant
> parts of a posting!

Why should you have to scroll at all in such a circumstance?
That is precisely the advantage of top-posting.

--
John Richards

John Richards wrote:
> "Al Klein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 17:32:11 GMT, "John Richards"
>> <[email protected]> said in alt.cellular:
>>
>>> It may be 'cool' in certain circles to
>>> be anti-MS, but the fact remains that their OS is on 95% of all
>>> personal computers. As such, they are a force to be reckoned with,
>>> and can't be ignored.
>>
>> As an OS, yes. As apps, yes. That still doesn't make them a
>> standards committee.
>
> You don't think MS sits on a lot of standards committees?

They are a large corporation. They will be involved in the standards
community. They will try to influence standards bodies in directions
favorable to them as a business. All companies do that.

> Regardless of that point, it is indisputable that MS encourages
> top-posting in their own newsgroups. I've been an MS beta tester
> for almost 10 years now, and get to spend a lot of time in
> their newsgroups.

Again, I would guess that most of them are using Outlook and OE
which encourage top posting by their design. Why were they designed
or implemented that way? Who knows? Maybe the engineer(s) who
implemented that functionality had no history, flipped a coin, or it was
their preference? These things happen. Maybe there was a technical
product reason for it. This may result in its being pushed, commonly
used, steam rolled into convention, but it is not a justification (i
think?).
By the way, I use Outlook and OE.

-Quick

"Al Klein" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 14:03:29 GMT, "dr.wireMORE"
> <[email protected]> said in alt.cellular:
>
>>While I might miss out on some information, I use a pre-view screen.
>>Pre-view appears to support top-posting, the most new/relevant information
>>on top. But if someone would contact the developers and have the preview
>>window start at the "bottom" or last item, then I'd add my comments at the
>>bottom.
>
> Could you name some news clients that have "preview screens"?

The one that is on more computers than any other, Outlook Express, has
the three-pane preview screen, making it very convenient to quickly skim
through message after message (unless one of those messages has a lot
of preceding quoted material).

--
John Richards

"David S" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 21:26:23 GMT, "John Richards" <[email protected]>
> chose to add this to the great equation of life, the universe, and
> everything:
>
>>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
>>
>>"David S" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>> P.P.S. To whoever it is who keeps mentioning fitting on one screen, not all
>>> screens are the same and the examples you are citing of fitting on one
>>> screen don't in my reader.
>>
>>Yep, it's a judgment call. For me, the preview screen shows about 31 lines.
>>YMMV. If a post shows nothing but old quoted text for the first 31 lines, I'll
>>skip it and go on to the next. Life is too short to waste it by scrolling
>>Usenet posts.
>
> Otoh, I use a *real* newsreader, Forte Agent, instead of Outlook Depress.
> Agent features "single key read" which lets me advance one whole screenful
> with a single press of the spacebar (or whatever key I specify).

If I was so inclined I could page through a lengthy post with OE by simply
hitting the "Page Dn" key (which is a lot more intuitive), but frankly,
I'm not so inclined. Posters who overquote tend to be lamers anyway.

--
John Richards

"Chris Pisarra" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:Y0rkd.390727$D%.161385@attbi_s51...
> David S burbled to the world:
>
>> Otoh, I use a *real* newsreader, Forte Agent, instead of Outlook
>> Depress. Agent features "single key read" which lets me advance one
>> whole screenful with a single press of the spacebar (or whatever key
>> I specify).
>
> The spacebar does that in OE, too.

Nice catch. I didn't know it could do that.

> What kind of self righteousness does it take for you to deride
> the most popular program in its area as not "real"? You can like it or
> not, but it's real, I assure you.

Indeed. OE may not be greatest at handling binaries, but for text
newsgroups like this one it is second to none.

--
John Richards

"Quick" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:1100122720.152587@sj-nntpcache-5...
> John Richards wrote:
>>
>> And 90% of the posters in Microsoft newsgroups top-post, what does
>> that tell you?
>
> I don't know. Maybe only that most of them use Outlook and OE, which
> encourage top posting by putting the cursor at the top when you reply?
> Might not tell you anything more than that.

Perhaps true for newbies. But it is easy enough to move the insertion
point to the bottom, as I do most of the time. When non-newbies
like myself top-post, it is because we're tired of having to scroll
through more than a screenful of prior quoted text.

--
John Richards

"John Richards" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Indeed. OE may not be greatest at handling binaries, but for text
>newsgroups like this one it is second to none.

Having used OE and Agent and a few others for many years, I would say OE is
definitely second to many, if not most.

"John Richards" <[email protected]> wrote:

>If you're trying to say that Microsoft has no input in setting computer
>standards, I think you're wrong. They are represented on a lot of standard
>making committees.

More to the point, MS is notorious for ignoring standards and forcing their
own standards on the world through their products. OE is a shining example.
By default it posts in HTML, which is almost a high crime on usenet. By
default it also top posts, which *until* OE came along was a rare thing to
find on usenet.

I would add that bottom posting isn't a "standard" in any way, shape or
form. It's merely an accepted convention and good netiquette. Top posting
is, quite simply, rude.

Hmmm... speaking of netiquette and posting style, might I suggest you trim
your quotes? You quoted a mish-mash of at least 4 different messages all
munged together, and that's *another* reason people top post. They get
tired of wading through endless, repetitive, unintelligible quotes.
Trimming quotes is another accepted convention and good netiquette that goes
hand in hand with bottom posting. Quote only that which you need to
maintain context, not the whole bloody thing.

>And 90% of the posters in Microsoft newsgroups top-post, what does that
>tell you?

They use OE. And if you think the majority of posters in MS newsgroups are
net gurus, you're badly mistaken. MS newsgroups are also a small fraction
of usenet. By no means do they set any sort of standards.

Oh, and speaking of conventions and standards and netiquette, the
cross-posting on this thread is way off the charts too. Cell phones and
alt.med.ems have WHAT to do with posting styles? It was a troll, which has
turned into an endless debate that ought to be somewhere else.

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 03:32:44 GMT, Al Klein <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 14:03:29 GMT, "dr.wireMORE"
><[email protected]> said in alt.cellular:
>
>>While I might miss out on some information, I use a pre-view screen.
>>Pre-view appears to support top-posting, the most new/relevant information
>>on top. But if someone would contact the developers and have the preview
>>window start at the "bottom" or last item, then I'd add my comments at the
>>bottom.
>
>Could you name some news clients that have "preview screens"?

What's your definition of new? As in never seen before or established
clients that have brought out new versions? Eudora has a preview pane
if you should want it though I'm not sure why anyone would as that's a
prime way to be exposed to various viruses and worms.

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"Joseph" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 03:32:44 GMT, Al Klein <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 14:03:29 GMT, "dr.wireMORE"
>><[email protected]> said in alt.cellular:
>>
>>>While I might miss out on some information, I use a pre-view screen.
>>>Pre-view appears to support top-posting, the most new/relevant
>>>information
>>>on top. But if someone would contact the developers and have the preview
>>>window start at the "bottom" or last item, then I'd add my comments at
>>>the
>>>bottom.
>>
>>Could you name some news clients that have "preview screens"?
>
> What's your definition of new? As in never seen before or established
> clients that have brought out new versions? Eudora has a preview pane
> if you should want it though I'm not sure why anyone would as that's a
> prime way to be exposed to various viruses and worms.
>
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>
There was a "S" on the end of new.
As in news group, news reader, news client, neswpaper, etc.

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:06:31 GMT, "John Richards"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> Let's see if using your own analogy makes any sense to you- roughly 90% of
>> the people posting in this thread are telling you top posting is not the
>> accepted standard.
>
>And 90% of the posters in Microsoft newsgroups top-post, what does that
>tell you?

It's telling you that they're more than likely using Microsoft
products to post. Since the standard that Microsoft invented defaults
to top posting of course that group would have top posting as the
standard. No mystery at all to that.

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On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:12:35 GMT, "John Richards"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Accepted. And for the record, I have no beef with bottom-posted
>messages as long as excess quoted text is snipped out.

Which *you* didn't do yourself! You quoted in two previous messages
in their entirety. If you're going to complain about people not
excising extra text you should take up that suggestion for yourself!

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On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:42:47 GMT, "John Richards"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"Joseph" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 02:49:26 GMT, "Steve B" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I hate having to scroll when bottom-posters do not snip the unimportant
>>>parts of a posting...
>>
>> I hate having to scroll when top posters do not snip the unimportant
>> parts of a posting!
>
>Why should you have to scroll at all in such a circumstance?
>That is precisely the advantage of top-posting.

Because the people who dump reply think that it's the reader's duty to
look through the whole original posting or several previous postings
to try and figure out what it is that the person was replying to
rather than have the person just quote the part of the post that they
are replying to. Top posters by and large are post and dump and leave
it up to their reader to *try* and figure out what they are responding
to.

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On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:08:10 GMT, "John Richards"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>If I was so inclined I could page through a lengthy post with OE by simply
>hitting the "Page Dn" key (which is a lot more intuitive), but frankly,
>I'm not so inclined. Posters who overquote tend to be lamers anyway.

Be careful! You quoted in its entirety three full levels of quoting.
People in glass houses and all that.

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