Cellular Repeaters (in the USA)

If you can get a usable cellular signal outside your building, but not inside
your building, a "cellular repeater" (sometimes called a "cellular booster")
may be able to solve the indoor coverage problem.

* Andrew Corporation (EAC-50 Repeater Kit, Model ASPM1850-50,
<http://www.antenna.com/repeaters/eac50_pcs.html>, 440-349-8647)
(Andrew is a near billion dollar S&P500 communications company.)

* CellAntenna Corporation (CAE50 SOHO Repeater Package,
<http://www.cellantenna.com/repeater/CAE50new.htm>, 877-998-2628)

* Wilson Electronics (BD800AM-B / BD800AM-B50,
<http://www.wilsonelectronics.com/amps/wcamps.htm>, 800-204-4104)

These companies have all assured me that their bidirectional amps are FCC
Approved/Type Accepted. I called the FCC, and was assured by a spokesperson
at the Commercial Wireless Division that the FCC does not regulate the use of
these FCC Type Accepted devices, and thus no license is required to install
and operate them. (If you created interference, you would be obligated to
correct it.)

Cost is in the range of $500-700 for a complete system (outdoor antenna,
bi-directional amplifier, indoor antenna, and cables, not including
installation). Typical indoor coverage is in the range of 500-1000 sq ft or
so, depending on indoor antenna type, placement, walls, etc. Units with
greater indoor coverage are also on the market, but are generally much more
expensive.

Be sure to get a system that supports the frequency band you need.

So-called "passive repeaters" do not work.

A less expensive alternative that can work is an external antenna that
connects to your cellular phone with a cable.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

---

› See More: Cellular Repeaters (in the USA)

John Navas wrote:
> So-called "passive repeaters" do not work.

*MY* passive repeater works great.

Geez, John. What a cross post! How many groups is that??

There's been extensive conversation on alt.cellular.verizon about
repeaters for years. Verizon's own mall store has one so the crappy
phones will work inside the mall on the sales floor......er, ah, until
I show up making a bagphone call at 6W erp and blow away the
preamps...(c;



On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 17:53:01 GMT, John Navas
<[email protected]> wrote:

>If you can get a usable cellular signal outside your building, but not inside
>your building, a "cellular repeater" (sometimes called a "cellular booster")
>may be able to solve the indoor coverage problem.
>
>* Andrew Corporation (EAC-50 Repeater Kit, Model ASPM1850-50,
><http://www.antenna.com/repeaters/eac50_pcs.html>, 440-349-8647)
>(Andrew is a near billion dollar S&P500 communications company.)
>
>* CellAntenna Corporation (CAE50 SOHO Repeater Package,
><http://www.cellantenna.com/repeater/CAE50new.htm>, 877-998-2628)
>
>* Wilson Electronics (BD800AM-B / BD800AM-B50,
><http://www.wilsonelectronics.com/amps/wcamps.htm>, 800-204-4104)
>
>These companies have all assured me that their bidirectional amps are FCC
>Approved/Type Accepted. I called the FCC, and was assured by a spokesperson
>at the Commercial Wireless Division that the FCC does not regulate the use of
>these FCC Type Accepted devices, and thus no license is required to install
>and operate them. (If you created interference, you would be obligated to
>correct it.)
>
>Cost is in the range of $500-700 for a complete system (outdoor antenna,
>bi-directional amplifier, indoor antenna, and cables, not including
>installation). Typical indoor coverage is in the range of 500-1000 sq ft or
>so, depending on indoor antenna type, placement, walls, etc. Units with
>greater indoor coverage are also on the market, but are generally much more
>expensive.
>
>Be sure to get a system that supports the frequency band you need.
>
>So-called "passive repeaters" do not work.
>
>A less expensive alternative that can work is an external antenna that
>connects to your cellular phone with a cable.
>
>--
>Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
>John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>


Larry W4CSC

Maybe we could get the power grid fixed if every politician
regulating the power companies wasn't on their payrolls.

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Tue, 19 Aug 2003
18:02:06 GMT, JRW <jrw@___.com> wrote:

>John Navas wrote:

>> So-called "passive repeaters" do not work.
>
>*MY* passive repeater works great.

Passive repeaters do work if you have "big" (highly directional) antennas and
power to burn; e.g., to "bend" a microwave beam around an obstruction. In the
case of cellular, you have a low-power phone with an essentially
omnidirectional antenna, so not enough signal power is going to reach the
inside antenna to do any good from the outside antenna after the inherent
signal losses, and vice versa. For that outside antenna to do any good, you
need to connect it to the phone with a cable. So-called "passive repeaters"
do not work >> for cellular <<.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

MAN, HOW COOL IS THAT? !!!! A 6 Watt BAGPHONE. I bet your the envy of
everyone. And if you looked hard you get a 800 MHZ Linear and strap onto a
Shopping Cart with a Marine Whip on the side and those Bell Guys will
tremble when they see you comming!!!! Larry YOU ARE THE MAN !!!!

Wow, if I can only grow up and be cool like Larry.........
But will being good in chess get me a scholarship to Ham Radio College ?
................

"Larry W4CSC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Geez, John. What a cross post! How many groups is that??
>
> There's been extensive conversation on alt.cellular.verizon about
> repeaters for years. Verizon's own mall store has one so the crappy
> phones will work inside the mall on the sales floor......er, ah, until
> I show up making a bagphone call at 6W erp and blow away the
> preamps...(c;
>
>
>
> On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 17:53:01 GMT, John Navas
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >If you can get a usable cellular signal outside your building, but not
inside
> >your building, a "cellular repeater" (sometimes called a "cellular
booster")
> >may be able to solve the indoor coverage problem.
> >
> >* Andrew Corporation (EAC-50 Repeater Kit, Model ASPM1850-50,
> ><http://www.antenna.com/repeaters/eac50_pcs.html>, 440-349-8647)
> >(Andrew is a near billion dollar S&P500 communications company.)
> >
> >* CellAntenna Corporation (CAE50 SOHO Repeater Package,
> ><http://www.cellantenna.com/repeater/CAE50new.htm>, 877-998-2628)
> >
> >* Wilson Electronics (BD800AM-B / BD800AM-B50,
> ><http://www.wilsonelectronics.com/amps/wcamps.htm>, 800-204-4104)
> >
> >These companies have all assured me that their bidirectional amps are FCC
> >Approved/Type Accepted. I called the FCC, and was assured by a
spokesperson
> >at the Commercial Wireless Division that the FCC does not regulate the
use of
> >these FCC Type Accepted devices, and thus no license is required to
install
> >and operate them. (If you created interference, you would be obligated
to
> >correct it.)
> >
> >Cost is in the range of $500-700 for a complete system (outdoor antenna,
> >bi-directional amplifier, indoor antenna, and cables, not including
> >installation). Typical indoor coverage is in the range of 500-1000 sq ft
or
> >so, depending on indoor antenna type, placement, walls, etc. Units with
> >greater indoor coverage are also on the market, but are generally much
more
> >expensive.
> >
> >Be sure to get a system that supports the frequency band you need.
> >
> >So-called "passive repeaters" do not work.
> >
> >A less expensive alternative that can work is an external antenna that
> >connects to your cellular phone with a cable.
> >
> >--
> >Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
> >John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>
>
>
> Larry W4CSC
>
> Maybe we could get the power grid fixed if every politician
> regulating the power companies wasn't on their payrolls.

[email protected] (Larry W4CSC) wrote in article
<[email protected]>:
> Geez, John. What a cross post! How many groups is that??
>
> There's been extensive conversation on alt.cellular.verizon about
> repeaters for years. Verizon's own mall store has one so the crappy
> phones will work inside the mall on the sales floor......er, ah, until
> I show up making a bagphone call at 6W erp and blow away the
> preamps...(c;
>

OMG - bad memory flashback, I remember selling those! (With no carriers
that still exist by name today)

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

It was Tue, 19 Aug 2003 21:25:09 GMT, and [email protected]
(Larry W4CSC) wrote in alt.cellular:
| I show up making a bagphone call at 6W erp and blow away
| the preamps...(c;

Just keep it at 3w TPO and 7w ERP or less and stay legal.

(Although INTENTIONALLY damaging preamps could be vandalism.)

JL


----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

John Navas wrote:
> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <[email protected]> on Tue, 19 Aug 2003
> 18:02:06 GMT, JRW <jrw@___.com> wrote:
>
>
>>John Navas wrote:
>
>
>>>So-called "passive repeaters" do not work.
>>
>>*MY* passive repeater works great.
>
>
> Passive repeaters do work if you have "big" (highly directional) antennas and
> power to burn; e.g., to "bend" a microwave beam around an obstruction. In the
> case of cellular, you have a low-power phone with an essentially
> omnidirectional antenna, so not enough signal power is going to reach the
> inside antenna to do any good from the outside antenna after the inherent
> signal losses, and vice versa. For that outside antenna to do any good, you
> need to connect it to the phone with a cable. So-called "passive repeaters"
> do not work >> for cellular <<.
>

*MY* passive repeater leads off with a 15 dBd gain 16 element
bowtie array mounted five feet above my 22' chimney and feeding 50
feet of 7/8" Andrews Heliax (originally used 1/2") and terminating
with a 9 dBd gain 8 element co-linear array inside a closet.

My IFR service monitor, Anritsu antenna and cable analyzer, Agilinet
Vector Network Analyzer were used to calibrate and test the system.
Observed gain is anywhere from 6dB to 9dB compared to not using the
passive array when monitoring the nearest Cingular and AT&T sites.
Cingular is colocated at the 100' level on the 150' AT&T tower six
miles line of sight from me - top 2/3 of tower is visible.

Placing a Nokia 5165 (Cingular) and Nokia 5160 (AT&T) in service
mode to observe 1dB increments of signal level change increases from
a baseline of -95 and -97 dB respectively to -88dB to -86dB (an
average of 6 to 9 db of gain) when I attach the coax connectors to
the outside array and inside stick.

Clearly the empirical test results contradict what you are stating.

Anyone with $40,000 of test equipment and antenna fabrication shop
and test facilities can build and calibrate their own system and
verify my experience.

Again...*MY* passive repeater works great.

In article <[email protected]>, JRW wrote:
> Placing a Nokia 5165 (Cingular) and Nokia 5160 (AT&T) in service
> mode to observe 1dB increments of signal level change increases from
> a baseline of -95 and -97 dB respectively to -88dB to -86dB (an
> average of 6 to 9 db of gain) when I attach the coax connectors to
> the outside array and inside stick.
>
> Clearly the empirical test results contradict what you are stating.
>
> Anyone with $40,000 of test equipment and antenna fabrication shop
> and test facilities can build and calibrate their own system and
> verify my experience.

But you never mentioned at all the results the other way. What's important
is not the direction you mentioned, from the cell to the phone. What's
important is the phone to the cell.

What's the gain in that direction?

How far away from the closet does the signal from the array become
weaker than the signal received "over the air"?

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson [email protected] 972-54-608-069
Icq/AIM Uin: 2661079 MSN IM: [email protected] (Not for email)
Carp are bottom feeders, koi are too, and not surprisingly are ferrets.

But isn't it sad that anyone has to resort to this to get the service
promised in the advertising?.....(sigh)



Larry W4CSC

Maybe we could get the power grid fixed if every politician
regulating the power companies wasn't on their payrolls.

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>
> But you never mentioned at all the results the other way.
What's important
> is not the direction you mentioned, from the cell to the
phone. What's
> important is the phone to the cell.
>
> What's the gain in that direction?
>
> How far away from the closet does the signal from the
array become
> weaker than the signal received "over the air"?
>


The path is reciprocal, i.e., the gain in one direction is
the same as the gain in the other.


--
Jeremy S. Nichols, PE
Minneapolis, MN

In article <[email protected]>, JRW wrote:

> Anyone with $40,000 of test equipment and antenna fabrication shop
> and test facilities can build and calibrate their own system and
> verify my experience.
>
> Again...*MY* passive repeater works great.

Wow.

OTOH, the little 3dB center-loaded whips you glue on one side
of a window with the little dipole on the other just _have_ to
be completely useless. I only took one quarter of fields, but
there's just no way...

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! .. Am I in a SOAP
at OPERA??
visi.com

x-no-archive:yes

The Wilson & other cellular "repeaters" are fully FCC approved as
consumer devices. If you check the FCC site, even the "consumer
oriented" instruction books are on file with the FCC. Why would the
FCC grant a Type acceptance number to a clearly "illegal" device??
Regulations & meanings can be interpreted many ways, but the
companies selling these items are well aware that their products are
legal to market for consumer use in the USA, & have worked closely
with the FCC to bring them to market.

John Navas wrote:
> Cost is in the range of $500-700 for a complete system (outdoor
> antenna, bi-directional amplifier, indoor antenna, and cables,
> not including installation). Typical indoor coverage is in the
> range of 500-1000 sq ft or so, depending on indoor antenna type,
> placement, walls, etc. Units with greater indoor coverage are
> also on the market, but are generally much more expensive.
>
> Be sure to get a system that supports the frequency band you need.

The antenna services company that installs and maintains cell sites
for all the carriers that I do consulting for installs commercial
wireless in-house repeaters and these can run into tens of thousands
of dollars. One site needed indoor coverage for two floors for a
total of over 100,000 square feet in all three bands - cellular,
PCS, and Nextel. Its a broad band transponder so that the more users
at any given time, total gain is reduced. That's similar to amature
radio operators working an OSCAR 2 meter satellite bounce.


Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
> But you never mentioned at all the results the other way. What's
> important is not the direction you mentioned, from the cell to
> the phone. What's important is the phone to the cell.
>
> What's the gain in that direction?
>
> How far away from the closet does the signal from the array become
> weaker than the signal received "over the air"?

While the gain is reciprocal in both directions, in actual application
the uplink gain is slightly less due to antenna apeture effects. In my
case, I only need it to cover the first floor in a 2,900 square foot
house - by the time I "get out of range" of the passive repeater, I'd
be outside.


Larry W4CSC wrote:
> But isn't it sad that anyone has to resort to this to get the service
> promised in the advertising?.....(sigh)

LOL....yeah, it does seem pathetic; but this is a case of I have the
resources and time to play around with this stuff. I live outside of
the outer most towers for all the providers. For example, Cingular
spaces their towers every two to three miles in town, but the next
nearest towers of the one 5 miles southwest of me is 15 miles further
east and another 8 miles to the north.

Grant Edwards wrote:
> OTOH, the little 3dB center-loaded whips you glue on one side
> of a window with the little dipole on the other just _have_ to
> be completely useless. I only took one quarter of fields, but
> there's just no way...

Those dinky antennas you're describing and most likely the kind
John Navas was referring to really aren't very effective unless
you have your handest right next to the indoor antenna and have
short run of decent low loss cable. In my mom's house, she looses
signal on her Sprint phone where she uses it the most. Every time
she lays it down next to her computer, it drops the call. I
fabricated a small tray she can slide her handset into that
inductively couples to a 4 turn coil antenna that feeds 15' of
3/8" Heliax to an outside 9 dB gain yagi and she uses a headset
mic and earpiece.

BTW, those microphones you see hanging from the earpiece are so
worthless with the mic so far from your mouth. Best way is to use
a boom mic attached to the headset.

How safe are those indor antennas?

John Navas <[email protected]> wrote in article
<[email protected]>:
> If you can get a usable cellular signal outside your building, but not inside
> your building, a "cellular repeater" (sometimes called a "cellular booster")
> may be able to solve the indoor coverage problem.
>
> * Andrew Corporation (EAC-50 Repeater Kit, Model ASPM1850-50,
> <http://www.antenna.com/repeaters/eac50_pcs.html>, 440-349-8647)
> (Andrew is a near billion dollar S&P500 communications company.)
>
> * CellAntenna Corporation (CAE50 SOHO Repeater Package,
> <http://www.cellantenna.com/repeater/CAE50new.htm>, 877-998-2628)
>
> * Wilson Electronics (BD800AM-B / BD800AM-B50,
> <http://www.wilsonelectronics.com/amps/wcamps.htm>, 800-204-4104)
>
> These companies have all assured me that their bidirectional amps are FCC
> Approved/Type Accepted. I called the FCC, and was assured by a spokesperson
> at the Commercial Wireless Division that the FCC does not regulate the use of
> these FCC Type Accepted devices, and thus no license is required to install
> and operate them. (If you created interference, you would be obligated to
> correct it.)
>
> Cost is in the range of $500-700 for a complete system (outdoor antenna,
> bi-directional amplifier, indoor antenna, and cables, not including
> installation). Typical indoor coverage is in the range of 500-1000 sq ft or
> so, depending on indoor antenna type, placement, walls, etc. Units with
> greater indoor coverage are also on the market, but are generally much more
> expensive.
>
> Be sure to get a system that supports the frequency band you need.
>
> So-called "passive repeaters" do not work.
>
> A less expensive alternative that can work is an external antenna that
> connects to your cellular phone with a cable.
>
> --
> Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
> John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]