Any luck using phones in flight mode?

"DALing" <daling43[delete]-at-hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Number 1 - I ALWAYS top post. (except when it's a "clip and snip large
post
> section --which this isn't)

That's you killfiled then. Read the usenet ettiquette files.

> Number 2 - you appear to be of the ilk - "My mind is made up - don't
confuse
> me with the facts"

My mind is made up that I don't want to be put at risk by idiots on
aircraft, yes.

> No sense trying to set you straight...(BTW - I don't use a cell phone on
a
> plane but it wouldn't have any impact on SAFETY)

And you *know* and can *prove* this to a pilot in flight, can you..?

Ivor

---

› See More: Any luck using phones in flight mode?

"Bob Myers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Ivor Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > A cell phone in "flight mode" poses no more danger to the aircraft
> > > operation than any other type of electronic device - and the
supposed
> > > dangers from electronic devices in general has been incredibly over-
> > > stated.
> >
> > Well you can believe what you like, but don't use a phone on any
aircraft
> > I'm on. Like I said before, better safe than dead.
>
> Sigh. You will note that I also said there were OTHER perfectly
> valid reasons for not using a cell phone in-flight. But in terms of
> "believing what I like", I DO think I'm speaking from the perspective
> of one reasonably well qualified in the area in question, and further
have
> a pretty good amount of research backing up this position.

Links to documented evidence please. Not theory, PROVEN FACT.

> Tell me, do you also worry about meteorites knocking the aircraft
> you're on out of the sky?

No, because it's a hell of a lot less likely than some idiot switching a
phone on while airborne.

Tell me, how would you explain yourself to a pilot about to have you
thrown off the aircraft..?


Ivor

"a_dude" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> how about an all-in-one device....instead of carrying hundreds of
> contraptions....
>
> dont have such a narrow mind...
>
> monkeys do...
>
> cheers

Oh God another top poster..

plonk..

Ivor

learn to adapt mate...thats what makes us different from monkeys...

cheers

"Ivor Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "a_dude" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > how about an all-in-one device....instead of carrying hundreds of
> > contraptions....
> >
> > dont have such a narrow mind...
> >
> > monkeys do...
> >
> > cheers
>
> Oh God another top poster..
>
> plonk..
>
> Ivor
>
>

In article <[email protected]>,
"Ivor Jones" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "mrtravelkay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> >
> > Ivor Jones wrote:
>
> > > Please post all flights on which you intend travelling, so I can avoid
> > > them.
> > >
> >
> > If the phone is in "flight-mode", this means it is not transmitting as a
> > cell phone. The purpose of flight mode is to use the other features of
> > the phone in flight. Why would this cause you to want to avoid the
> > flight. It would be the same as using a game boy.
>
> There are good reasons why phones are not permitted to be used on aircraft
> and I for one don't want to be on a plane where someone has one switched
> on. The so-called "flight" mode might switch off the radio sections of the
> phone, on the other hand it might not and I don't want to be there.

Feh! What makes you think you haven't been on a flight already where a
passenger simply forgot to switch off his or her cell phone? i have to
admit that nine times out of ten, I forget to switch off my pager (which
also transmits) and sometimes my cell phone when I fly because I
typically just tuck them in one of my carry-on bags before I arrive at
the airport so I don't have to worry about dumping it in one of those
inspection bins. I also throw my house keys and car keys in my carry-on
bag and my other personal electronic items such as my camera. So far, I
have yet to cause a flight to crash. Besides, how is this any more risky
than those in-flight telephones that are placed behind the passenger
seats? Either way, a wireless signal is involved and I doubt cell phones
and navigational equipment work on the same radio frequency anyway.

In article <[email protected]>,
Han <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 10:12:00 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >There are good reasons why phones are not permitted to be used on aircraft
> >and I for one don't want to be on a plane where someone has one switched
> >on. The so-called "flight" mode might switch off the radio sections of the
> >phone, on the other hand it might not and I don't want to be there.
> >
> >The purpose of a phone is to make and receive phone calls. If you want to
> >use a game boy, whatever that is, then use one, not a phone. At least on
> >any plane I'm on..!
>
> Ok.. again: With PDA's I know FOR SURE that many of the people who use
> them don't know how to disable WiFi and/or Bluetooth on them. These
> devices WILL be trasnsmitting, trying to locate other devices. Yet
> they are ALLOWED on planes, no questions asked.
>
> Note that smartphones can be used for a lot more than just play games
> besides making calls; you can quite comfortably download your e-mail
> on them before the flight and read and answer e-mail while on the
> flight and then send afterwards. Or for example reading e-books on
> them. Or Avant-Go stored websites. Soon they will come with foldable
> keyboards so you can actually write stuff like you would on a laptop
> or PDA.

Exactly. You also just reminded me of one other wireless technology. How
many people with wi-fi equipped laptops actually remember to turn off
the wi-fi card when they use their laptops in flight? I am pretty good
at that, but I work in the computer field.

In article <[email protected]>,
"Ivor Jones" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "DALing" <daling43[delete]-at-hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > you smoking something good??? RF at the frequencies of cell phones has
> been
> > shown to NOT affect either communication or avionics. (many studies -
> the
> > reason for not allowing cell phones is FCC - NOT FAA - or whatever your
> > particular flavour of aviation alphabet soup is) The reason for not
> > allowing "transmitters" (more specifically "radios") on aircraft has to
> do
> > with IF (that's "intermediate frequencies") which are used when
> converting
> > the signal to audio (heterdyne) and the emissions of THOSE frequencies
> is
> > where the interference comes from. POTENTIALLY, cell phones have an IF
> > emission, but the frequencies (and radiated power very low) are WAY
> above
> > any NEAR the aircraft nav/com band and not even a harmonic issue.
> (don't
> > know about military frequencies, though and they don't matter here,
> anyway)
> >
> > LEARN a little about RFI before you try to come across as an expert.
>
> Like I said before, you believe what you want, just don't try using any
> phone on the same plane as me..!

This is stupid. How would we know who you are, and how in the world
would you know if anyone who's riding on the same flight as you has
a cellular device turned on while in flight?

I suggest you take that aluminum cap off your head and relax a little.

Ivor Jones wrote:
>
> No, because it's a hell of a lot less likely than some idiot switching a
> phone on while airborne.
>
> Tell me, how would you explain yourself to a pilot about to have you
> thrown off the aircraft..?

What about all of the "idiots" that forget to switch them off?
Your worry only seems to be for the phones that you can see.
Even the one UK report indicated they had to be a MAX power near the
equipement without shielding.

Bob Myers wrote:
> And again, you will please note that I already stated there are
> other reasons for not using a cell phone in flight.

Can you please read the original question ?

Modern worldwide phones have a feature to turn off the telephone functions
while keeping the PDA functions available.

And it isn't enough to just turn off the phone since an alarm in the agenda or
alrm clock would turn the phone on by itself. That is why modern phone have
and "airplane" mode in them that either just disables the phone section, or
disables alarms (preventing phone from turning itself on).

> Bob Myers wrote:
>> And again, you will please note that I already stated there are
>> other reasons for not using a cell phone in flight.
>
> Can you please read the original question ?
>
> Modern worldwide phones have a feature to turn off the telephone functions
> while keeping the PDA functions available.
>
> And it isn't enough to just turn off the phone since an alarm in the agenda or
> alrm clock would turn the phone on by itself. That is why modern phone have
> and "airplane" mode in them that either just disables the phone section, or
> disables alarms (preventing phone from turning itself on).

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...&FROM=1&ITEM=1

The regulation says that you can't use any electronic device on an airplane
unless the airline (not you, *the airline*) has determined that the device
will not cause interference with the navigation or communications system of
the airplane.

It costs a bunch of money to do the testing required to meet this
regulation; good luck in getting your airline to do it.

If you refuse to comply with the flight crew's instructions, they'll call
ahead to have you escorted off the airplane at the destination by the local
police for interference with a flight crew.

http://ecfr1.access.gpo.gov/otcgi/cf...10&ITEM=1#Sec.
121.580

If you really make a stink about it, they'll land at the nearest suitable
airport and have you removed there.

Your call.

On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 06:22:36 -0500, nobody <[email protected]> wrote:

>Best bet would be the print the page of your handset's manual that documents
>the "aircraft" function. As you board aircraft, ask a flight attendant to
>verify with captain if it will be ok to use your phone/pda combo (handing her
>the sheet showing the aircraft mode stuff).
>
>Make sure you don't have any games called "bombs" on your phone though :-)

:-) I actually have a game called "Attack of the Killer Virus" on my
phone.. That kind of looks suspicious too. (Can recommend the game
by the way, control is through the camera built into the phone, so you
have to move the whole phone (not buttons) to move the cross-hairs to
shoot stuff that's super-imposed on the image seen by the camera. Not
the most suitable game to play on an airplane. :-)

Note that I do think that it won't be THAT long before actual viruses
will be made that infect smartphones.

On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 19:02:57 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>As to why some devices are allowed and why some aren't I don't know. I
>just don't want to find out something is causing a problem when I've got
>no escape route..! Better safe than dead IMHO. Do you *need* the thing
>anyway..? Personally when I'm on a flight I'm usually dog tired and all I
>want to do is sleep, never mind phone people or play silly games..!

Won't be that long before all airplane entertainment systems (both
in-flight moviews (Video/DVD) as well as games) are completely
irrelevant because you will have a load of movies as well as any game
in the world in your phone/pda/laptop.

It's already true for the in-flight radio/music programme. Who bothers
with that these days when you can bring a Tape/CD/MP3 player..

Ah, just remembered one more use of a smartphone: It can ALSO be a MP3
music player! If that's not a good use in flight then I don't know
what is..

On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 23:48:53 -0500, nobody <[email protected]> wrote:

>Can you please read the original question ?
>
>Modern worldwide phones have a feature to turn off the telephone functions
>while keeping the PDA functions available.

Right. The issue is not if actually (trying to) make a call in flight
is safe or not. People are debating this issue because it's
interesting from a technical point of view to know what things can
have an effect on the plane's systems, however nobody here wants to
make calls in flight if it even were possible at 32K feet above the
atlantic.

>And it isn't enough to just turn off the phone since an alarm in the agenda or
>alrm clock would turn the phone on by itself. That is why modern phone have
>and "airplane" mode in them that either just disables the phone section, or
>disables alarms (preventing phone from turning itself on).

Right, come to think of it, my PDA does that yes.. And my phone
sounds alarms too even when turned off..! (Though it doesn't start up
the phone network functions.) (And especially not when in flight mode
with the SIM removed.

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:24:32 +1000, "a_dude" <[email protected]> wrote:

>how about an all-in-one device....instead of carrying hundreds of
>contraptions....
>
>dont have such a narrow mind...
>
>monkeys do...

Monkeys use an all-in-one device? ;-)

We're getting there though. I really don't find much use for a PDA
anymore these days.

"Ivor Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> Different frequencies. The aircraft too has radio but not at cellular
> frequencies. RF at the frequencies used by phones are *known* to interfere
> with avionics. They may not, but do you want to be on a plane when it's
> found they do..?

Do you really think that every single one of those 150 schmucks
sharing that commercial flight with you ALL remembered to shut their
phones off before stowing them in their luggage, their carry-ons or
their pockets? Really?

I wouldn't be surprised if an average of dozen cellphones were powered
up on every commercial flight in the air today.

The debate will go on but I'll leave you with two "food for thought"
items:

1) if cellphones were really a danger on commercial aircraft, there
would be a far better method of insuring safety than simpkly reminding
us to turn them off (a portable "sniffer" wielded by flight
attendants, or even perhaps the collection of them at boarding and
returning them after landing.) I have to pass through a metal
detector to get on board. They don't simply ask me if I'm armed,
right? But just asking to turn off gizmos that "interfere with
avionics" is apparently effective enough?

2) the officially sanctioned "Airphone" in the seatback in front of
you costs $2.50 US/minute. Perhaps the reason not to allow cellphone
use on-board the plane is the same reason the movie theater charging
$4 for Twizzlers doesn't let you bring your own candy?

> But can you be 100% *certain* that the *radio* functions (it is RF that
> interferes with the aircraft avionics) are switched off..? I don't want to
> find out they're not at 30,000 ft over the Atlantic..!

Can you be certain the guy sitting next to you turned off the phone in
the overhead bin above your head? I've forgotten more than once.

> Ivor (who loves flying but not crashing..!!)

-Todd, who loves neither, but certainly prefers the former... ;-)