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  1. #31
    Al Klein
    Guest

    Re: HELP - SOS: 6230 SIM Blocked...!

    On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:07:50 +0100, martin f krafft
    <[email protected]> said in alt.cellular.nokia:

    >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >Hash: SHA1


    >also sprach Ivor Jones <[email protected]> [2004.12.18.0932 +0100]:
    >> What a load of b******s. Where do *you* get the PUK from then..?!


    >In a sealed envelope upon purchase of the SIM card.


    Maybe in the country in which you live. No "sealed envelopes" in the
    US. You have to call the carrier (or have your dealer call the
    carrier).
    ---
    CellPhonesEtc at optonline dot net



    See More: HELP - SOS: 6230 SIM Blocked...!




  2. #32
    Al Klein
    Guest

    Re: HELP - SOS: 6230 SIM Blocked...!

    On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:07:50 +0100, martin f krafft
    <[email protected]> said in alt.cellular.nokia:

    >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >Hash: SHA1


    >also sprach Ivor Jones <[email protected]> [2004.12.18.0932 +0100]:
    >> What a load of b******s. Where do *you* get the PUK from then..?!


    >In a sealed envelope upon purchase of the SIM card.


    Maybe in the country in which you live. No "sealed envelopes" in the
    US. You have to call the carrier (or have your dealer call the
    carrier).
    ---
    CellPhonesEtc at optonline dot net



  3. #33
    Al Klein
    Guest

    Re: HELP - SOS: 6230 SIM Blocked...!

    On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:07:50 +0100, martin f krafft
    <[email protected]> said in alt.cellular.nokia:

    >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >Hash: SHA1


    >also sprach Ivor Jones <[email protected]> [2004.12.18.0932 +0100]:
    >> What a load of b******s. Where do *you* get the PUK from then..?!


    >In a sealed envelope upon purchase of the SIM card.


    Maybe in the country in which you live. No "sealed envelopes" in the
    US. You have to call the carrier (or have your dealer call the
    carrier).
    ---
    CellPhonesEtc at optonline dot net



  4. #34
    Al Klein
    Guest

    Re: HELP - SOS: 6230 SIM Blocked...!

    On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 14:39:42 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
    <[email protected]> said in alt.cellular.nokia:

    >martin f krafft wrote:


    >> "Would you be so kind as to choose a password, M'am?"
    >> "Oh, sure. Wait, let me see. Yeah, take rosebud, I use that all
    >> the time"
    >> "Okay, your password is rosebud, all lower-case, M'am. Anything
    >> else I can help you with?"
    >> "No."
    >> "Then please sign here and we can hand you the SIM card."


    >You have a strange system there..!


    And, even if the dealer DID "get" the password when selling the phone,
    if you asked him, an hour or two later, "Do you remember what password
    that guy in the blue T-shirt who bought the V551 chose", you'd be
    lucky if he remembered that there WAS a guy in a blue T-shirt in the
    store.

    Only a very unscrupulous dealer would even try to remember customer
    passwords.

    (We get enough information to pull off identity theft from every
    customer who activates a phone. Any dealer who wants to use that kind
    of info a) has more than he needs without passwords and b) had better
    like striped sunlight.)
    ---
    CellPhonesEtc at optonline dot net



  5. #35
    Al Klein
    Guest

    Re: HELP - SOS: 6230 SIM Blocked...!

    On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 14:39:42 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
    <[email protected]> said in alt.cellular.nokia:

    >martin f krafft wrote:


    >> "Would you be so kind as to choose a password, M'am?"
    >> "Oh, sure. Wait, let me see. Yeah, take rosebud, I use that all
    >> the time"
    >> "Okay, your password is rosebud, all lower-case, M'am. Anything
    >> else I can help you with?"
    >> "No."
    >> "Then please sign here and we can hand you the SIM card."


    >You have a strange system there..!


    And, even if the dealer DID "get" the password when selling the phone,
    if you asked him, an hour or two later, "Do you remember what password
    that guy in the blue T-shirt who bought the V551 chose", you'd be
    lucky if he remembered that there WAS a guy in a blue T-shirt in the
    store.

    Only a very unscrupulous dealer would even try to remember customer
    passwords.

    (We get enough information to pull off identity theft from every
    customer who activates a phone. Any dealer who wants to use that kind
    of info a) has more than he needs without passwords and b) had better
    like striped sunlight.)
    ---
    CellPhonesEtc at optonline dot net



  6. #36
    Al Klein
    Guest

    Re: HELP - SOS: 6230 SIM Blocked...!

    On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 14:39:42 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
    <[email protected]> said in alt.cellular.nokia:

    >martin f krafft wrote:


    >> "Would you be so kind as to choose a password, M'am?"
    >> "Oh, sure. Wait, let me see. Yeah, take rosebud, I use that all
    >> the time"
    >> "Okay, your password is rosebud, all lower-case, M'am. Anything
    >> else I can help you with?"
    >> "No."
    >> "Then please sign here and we can hand you the SIM card."


    >You have a strange system there..!


    And, even if the dealer DID "get" the password when selling the phone,
    if you asked him, an hour or two later, "Do you remember what password
    that guy in the blue T-shirt who bought the V551 chose", you'd be
    lucky if he remembered that there WAS a guy in a blue T-shirt in the
    store.

    Only a very unscrupulous dealer would even try to remember customer
    passwords.

    (We get enough information to pull off identity theft from every
    customer who activates a phone. Any dealer who wants to use that kind
    of info a) has more than he needs without passwords and b) had better
    like striped sunlight.)
    ---
    CellPhonesEtc at optonline dot net



  7. #37
    Al Klein
    Guest

    Re: HELP - SOS: 6230 SIM Blocked...!

    On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:13:03 +0100, martin f krafft
    <[email protected]> said in alt.cellular.nokia:

    >Yeah, and you should have gotten it from your operator with the SIM
    >card, and it was assigned to the SIM card before a number had been
    >associated, a contract written, or even a provider known.


    And, in the US, not given to the dealer, so the dealer can't give it
    to the customer.

    >I am basing all this on German, French, and Swiss networks. However,
    >it's mostly all Vodafone, Orange, and <barf>T-Mobile, and so I'd
    >assume they have the same policies all over the place.


    T-Mobile, for one, doesn't in the US.
    ---
    CellPhonesEtc at optonline dot net



  8. #38
    Al Klein
    Guest

    Re: HELP - SOS: 6230 SIM Blocked...!

    On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:13:03 +0100, martin f krafft
    <[email protected]> said in alt.cellular.nokia:

    >Yeah, and you should have gotten it from your operator with the SIM
    >card, and it was assigned to the SIM card before a number had been
    >associated, a contract written, or even a provider known.


    And, in the US, not given to the dealer, so the dealer can't give it
    to the customer.

    >I am basing all this on German, French, and Swiss networks. However,
    >it's mostly all Vodafone, Orange, and <barf>T-Mobile, and so I'd
    >assume they have the same policies all over the place.


    T-Mobile, for one, doesn't in the US.
    ---
    CellPhonesEtc at optonline dot net



  9. #39
    Al Klein
    Guest

    Re: HELP - SOS: 6230 SIM Blocked...!

    On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:13:03 +0100, martin f krafft
    <[email protected]> said in alt.cellular.nokia:

    >Yeah, and you should have gotten it from your operator with the SIM
    >card, and it was assigned to the SIM card before a number had been
    >associated, a contract written, or even a provider known.


    And, in the US, not given to the dealer, so the dealer can't give it
    to the customer.

    >I am basing all this on German, French, and Swiss networks. However,
    >it's mostly all Vodafone, Orange, and <barf>T-Mobile, and so I'd
    >assume they have the same policies all over the place.


    T-Mobile, for one, doesn't in the US.
    ---
    CellPhonesEtc at optonline dot net



  10. #40
    martin f krafft
    Guest

    Re: HELP - SOS: 6230 SIM Blocked...!

    also sprach Richard Colton <[email protected]> [2004.12.20.2040 +0100]:
    > > Using an asymmetric encryption scheme and PUKs assigned to SIM
    > > cards before the operator "slaps a contract on them". And the
    > > sealed envelope.

    >
    > PUK's are assigned to SIMs prior to the operator "slapping
    > a contract on them". Any level of encryption has to be balanced
    > against usability.


    Do you have backing information on this? I fully agree, but I only
    now this from hearsay.

    > Maybe in your country, but not in the UK. It can very from
    > a couple of days to a few weeks depending on the operator, so
    > hardly trivial plus the costs involved will be substantially
    > higher than maintaining a database of PUK 's.


    Ugh.



    also sprach Richard Colton <[email protected]> [2004.12.20.2049 +0100]:
    > > Sure, but not the operator. It's not like they manufacture the
    > > SIM cards. They only attach SIM card numbers to contracts.
    > >
    > > If you ask me, then what is happening is that some operators
    > > apparently open the pre-sealed envelopes to retrieve the
    > > passwords.

    >
    > No, they consult the database and retrieve the PUK that is
    > registered against that given SIM.


    So that database is per-operator or per-SIM-manufacturer?

    > > Identification is just one of those problems that has not been
    > > solved.

    >
    > Nor will it ever be 100% secure if it's be be accessible to the
    > end user.


    True.

    > It doesn't bother me personally that much (unlimited broadband),
    > but it is a matter of courtesy.


    Fair enough. I shall discontinue digitally signing messages.



    also sprach Al Klein <[email protected]> [2004.12.20.2107 +0100]:
    > Only a very unscrupulous dealer would even try to remember
    > customer passwords.


    Bystanders could though.



    also sprach Al Klein <[email protected]> [2004.12.20.2110 +0100]:
    > >Yeah, and you should have gotten it from your operator with the
    > >SIM card, and it was assigned to the SIM card before a number had
    > >been associated, a contract written, or even a provider known.

    >
    > And, in the US, not given to the dealer, so the dealer can't give
    > it to the customer.


    Yeah, same here. It's passed through to the customer on purchase
    though, right?

    --
    martin; (greetings from the heart of the sun.)
    \____ echo mailto: !#^."<*>"|tr "<*> mailto:" [email protected]

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