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  1. #136
    ZnU
    Guest

    Re: Activating an iPhone - Made SIMPLE by Apple.

    In article <[email protected]>, News <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Kurt Ullman wrote:
    >
    > > Right, but I think his point is that merely putting the word
    > > private in SSID, which was the original suggestion, would not
    > > automatically mean that the person connecting would see the ONLY
    > > indication of privacy.

    >
    > If purely blindly connecting, perhaps.
    >
    > Why would anyone do that, with honeypots galore.


    You're usually connecting "blindly" even if you're manually selecting
    networks to connect to. The SSID of the network isn't, in most cases,
    going to influence your perception of the network's safety to any
    significant degree.

    Anyway... anyone who does substantial roaming on open wireless networks
    would be advised to either use a VPN, or make sure to only use encrypted
    services when sensitive information is at stake.

    --
    "That's George Washington, the first president, of course. The interesting thing
    about him is that I read three--three or four books about him last year. Isn't
    that interesting?"
    - George W. Bush to reporter Kai Diekmann, May 5, 2006



    See More: Activating an iPhone - Made SIMPLE by Apple.




  2. #137
    Kurt Ullman
    Guest

    Re: Activating an iPhone - Made SIMPLE by Apple.

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "G.T." <[email protected]> wrote:


    > Taking fruit from the tree isn't passive.


    When the fruit itself is over the sidewalk and you can get to it. But
    even if the apple you want overhangs the sidewalk, you can't go on to
    the property to shake the tree to get the apple.

    >
    > Anyway, back to my original point. Currently in the USA if there is no
    > way to tell that I am unwanted on a wireless network then I have a solid
    > legal defense, just like if I wondered onto someone's rural unsigned and
    > unfenced property.
    >

    It will be interesting to see if you are right as things shake out.



  3. #138
    Kurt Ullman
    Guest

    Re: Activating an iPhone - Made SIMPLE by Apple.

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "BruceR" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    > Not to mention that if somebody who doesn't want you on their network is
    > too dumb to secure it they probably won't know you're there anyway. In
    > this day and age with all the warnings about securing the networks and
    > the setup wizards that are part of the router's setup dialog, I consider
    > an unlocked signal to be an open invitation to the public. If I hang a
    > basket of fruit on my front gate on the sidewalk side, I expect people
    > to help themselves.


    If you hang the fruit, that is an open invitation and something
    action you took to do that. BIG difference from doing something because
    you are too ignorant or dumb to make changes. I am to assume that if you
    went into one of the nastier parts of town and got mugged and beaten,
    you would feel that you got what you deserved?



  4. #139
    BruceR
    Guest

    Re: Activating an iPhone - Made SIMPLE by Apple.



    Kurt Ullman wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "BruceR" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> Not to mention that if somebody who doesn't want you on their
    >> network is too dumb to secure it they probably won't know you're
    >> there anyway. In this day and age with all the warnings about
    >> securing the networks and the setup wizards that are part of the
    >> router's setup dialog, I consider an unlocked signal to be an open
    >> invitation to the public. If I hang a basket of fruit on my front
    >> gate on the sidewalk side, I expect people to help themselves.

    >
    > If you hang the fruit, that is an open invitation and something
    > action you took to do that. BIG difference from doing something
    > because you are too ignorant or dumb to make changes. I am to assume
    > that if you went into one of the nastier parts of town and got mugged
    > and beaten, you would feel that you got what you deserved?


    Actually, yes. If I go into a nastier part of town I would have little
    expectation of safety and would consider myself to have been placed in a
    catagory called "bait." Not that mugging and beating me would be legal
    but it would certainly be a reasonable expectation. When my neighbor
    moved innext door he told me that he had just had DSL installed and left
    the wireless open in case any of the neighbors wanted to use it.(we all
    already have our own access). He knowingly left the security turned off
    as I believe many do. Most don't think that a hacker will attack or
    don't consider the illegal uses that one may use the connection for and
    prefer to be generous with their bqandwidth. That may not be smart but
    the user isn't stealing.





  5. #140
    Kurt Ullman
    Guest

    Re: Activating an iPhone - Made SIMPLE by Apple.

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "BruceR" <[email protected]> wrote:


    > Actually, yes. If I go into a nastier part of town I would have little
    > expectation of safety and would consider myself to have been placed in a
    > catagory called "bait." Not that mugging and beating me would be legal
    > but it would certainly be a reasonable expectation.

    "Not that the mugging or beating would be legal" is pretty much my
    main point. Just because some does something dumb (as in leave the
    network open) doesn't mean that taking advantage of his or her stupidity
    is automatically legal. Yet that seems to be the argument with if its
    open I should be able to use it mindset.

    When my neighbor
    > moved innext door he told me that he had just had DSL installed and left
    > the wireless open in case any of the neighbors wanted to use it.(we all
    > already have our own access). He knowingly left the security turned off
    > as I believe many do. Most don't think that a hacker will attack or
    > don't consider the illegal uses that one may use the connection for and
    > prefer to be generous with their bqandwidth. That may not be smart but
    > the user isn't stealing.


    No, because they have been invited in with the expressed intent that
    they help themselves to the silverware. . But if the person takes the
    silverware AND the HD TV, it is still theft, just not burglary. Same
    difference with the person who BY HIS OR HER OWN decision actively
    invites people into their network. If the illegal user gets in, the
    owner of the system have some liability, but that certain doesn't
    absolve the villain of culpability either. It also doesn't mean that
    every open system is free for the taking either.



  6. #141
    BruceR
    Guest

    Re: Activating an iPhone - Made SIMPLE by Apple.



    Kurt Ullman wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "BruceR" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >> Actually, yes. If I go into a nastier part of town I would have
    >> little expectation of safety and would consider myself to have been
    >> placed in a catagory called "bait." Not that mugging and beating me
    >> would be legal but it would certainly be a reasonable expectation.

    > "Not that the mugging or beating would be legal" is pretty much
    > my main point. Just because some does something dumb (as in leave the
    > network open) doesn't mean that taking advantage of his or her
    > stupidity is automatically legal. Yet that seems to be the argument
    > with if its open I should be able to use it mindset.
    >
    > When my neighbor
    >> moved innext door he told me that he had just had DSL installed and
    >> left the wireless open in case any of the neighbors wanted to use
    >> it.(we all already have our own access). He knowingly left the
    >> security turned off as I believe many do. Most don't think that a
    >> hacker will attack or don't consider the illegal uses that one may
    >> use the connection for and prefer to be generous with their
    >> bqandwidth. That may not be smart but the user isn't stealing.

    >
    > No, because they have been invited in with the expressed intent that
    > they help themselves to the silverware. . But if the person takes the
    > silverware AND the HD TV, it is still theft, just not burglary. Same
    > difference with the person who BY HIS OR HER OWN decision actively
    > invites people into their network. If the illegal user gets in, the
    > owner of the system have some liability, but that certain doesn't
    > absolve the villain of culpability either. It also doesn't mean that
    > every open system is free for the taking either.


    Good points. Here's some interesting articles which pretty much conclude
    that the legal issue is still a tossup till the law catches up with the
    technology. It WOULD seem however, that leaving access open would be a
    potential violation of the terms of service from the provider. To me,
    the bottom line is that, legal or not, most people are going to jump on
    whatever access they find, check their email, and be gone before anybody
    knows.

    http://news.com.com/FAQ+Wi-Fi+moochi...3-5778822.html

    http://reclaimthemedia.org/broadband...questions=5285





  7. #142
    Kurt Ullman
    Guest

    Re: Activating an iPhone - Made SIMPLE by Apple.

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "BruceR" <[email protected]> wrote:


    > Good points. Here's some interesting articles which pretty much conclude
    > that the legal issue is still a tossup till the law catches up with the
    > technology. It WOULD seem however, that leaving access open would be a
    > potential violation of the terms of service from the provider. To me,
    > the bottom line is that, legal or not, most people are going to jump on
    > whatever access they find, check their email, and be gone before anybody
    > knows.
    >

    Of course if the past 40 years are any indication by the time the
    law catches up with the technology, the technology will be a few hundred
    miles further down the road.

    As to the bottom line:Probably. Nobody actually runs at the speed
    limit.



  8. #143
    Elizabot v2.0.3
    Guest

    Re: Activating an iPhone - Made SIMPLE by Apple.

    John Richards wrote:
    > "Kurt Ullman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected].net.mx...
    >> If the same religious group came to the door, knocked on it, found
    >> it unlocked, and invited themselves in, even Pope himself would be
    >> guilty of criminal trespass.

    >
    > To be sure. But physical breaking and entering is an entirely different matter
    > than making use of some radio waves that are being radiated into free space.
    > Why are your WAP's radio waves trespassing into my private vehicle? Maybe I
    > should sue the WAP's owner...
    >
    > John Richards
    >


    People sue to stop cell phone towers from being built. Radio wave
    emissions and such. Give it a try!



  9. #144
    Elizabot v2.0.3
    Guest

    Re: Activating an iPhone - Made SIMPLE by Apple.

    Alan Baker wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>, News <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> Alan Baker wrote:
    >>> There is nothing to differentiate Wi-Fi access points that are left open
    >>> deliberately from ones where the owner doesn't want you to use them.
    >>>
    >>> And since the owner can easily provide such an indication, the onus
    >>> should be on him or her to do so.

    >>
    >> Which is why the word "PRIVATE" appears in SSIDs.

    >
    > Sorry, but SSIDs aren't read by humans most of the time.
    >
    > Put a no trespassing sign at the front of your property but leave the
    > back unsigned and unfenced and you can't expect people to know your
    > wishes.
    >


    What if they can't read, or can't read in English? As you are probably
    aware, the US doesn't have a national language.



  10. #145
    Alan Baker
    Guest

    Re: Activating an iPhone - Made SIMPLE by Apple.

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Elizabot v2.0.3" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Alan Baker wrote:
    > > In article <[email protected]>, News <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >> Alan Baker wrote:
    > >>> There is nothing to differentiate Wi-Fi access points that are left open
    > >>> deliberately from ones where the owner doesn't want you to use them.
    > >>>
    > >>> And since the owner can easily provide such an indication, the onus
    > >>> should be on him or her to do so.
    > >>
    > >> Which is why the word "PRIVATE" appears in SSIDs.

    > >
    > > Sorry, but SSIDs aren't read by humans most of the time.
    > >
    > > Put a no trespassing sign at the front of your property but leave the
    > > back unsigned and unfenced and you can't expect people to know your
    > > wishes.
    > >

    >
    > What if they can't read, or can't read in English? As you are probably
    > aware, the US doesn't have a national language.


    Then that would be a valid defence for a sign only written in English.

    Not for a fence, tho'.

    --
    Alan Baker
    Vancouver, British Columbia
    "If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
    to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
    sit in the bottom of that cupboard."



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