N82 maps and gps without data costs ?

Hi

What maps and software should I use with the Nokia N82?

My preferences - in rank order

Only use data connection when wifi available - don't use GSM network
Load maps for most of Europe inc Romania, Norway and Russia
Find current location on map
Get directions on map - using postcode or address
Find and store points of interest
Get voice direction instructions while travelling.

I realise I will not get all of these without sending data via the
mobile network.

but - which of thse services can I get without using gsm data.
What software / maps should I use.

I do not want to pay a subscription for Nokia maps and do not want to
pay for data costs while roaming.

Any advice or additional tips would be appreciated.

Thanks ColinK

---

› See More: N82 maps and gps without data costs ?

On 2008-02-16, ColinK <[email protected]> wrote:

> I do not want to pay a subscription for Nokia maps and do not want to
> pay for data costs while roaming.

Well, nokia maps can do all of it apart from voice-guided directions,
you can load your maps onto the device so that it doesn't need to use
the network to load them. I'm not sure on coverage for Europe though
as I've got no need to check.

If you desperately need voice-guided directions then you won't get
anything decent for free unless you nick it, however if you find
something that's nearly there, Nokia Maps actually uses fairly little
storage space so you can always use whatever directional app you need
for getting from A to B while using the free services of Nokia Maps to
make up for any failures. You can plan a route in nokia maps without
paying for it, all that you can't do is actually use the voice-guided
navigation, it's pretty good for finding out where you are and what's
around you, just not much good for use in a car.

I've been playing with Tomtom, Nokia Maps and Garmin Mobile XT in an
attempt to find out which ones are actually worth using, they're all
far from perfect, Tomtom would be the best if it supported the
internal GPS of the N95 but tomtom seem to have deserted the S60
platform, Garmin would be much better if it didn't crash so often and
occasionally lose *all* routes, waypoints and settings, and if it had
better search facilities, and Nokia Maps is a little too simple at the
moment. I have however not checked out Nokia Maps 2.0 Beta much.
I've loaded it onto the phone but not played with it so far. Garmin
does however have the advantage of a PC-based application called
Mapsource which can make up for some of its shortcomings, including
being able to restore your data if the mobile app chomps it all,
although that's not much use if you're away from the computer!

Currently my wallet is waiting for Tomtom 7 with support for the N95
internal GPS to come out, if it's not out by the middle of the year
then it'll have to be either Garmin or Nokia Maps (depending on how it
develops).

However, don't write off Nokia Maps too quickly, it's free for most
functionality and doesn't need to use the network, and you can buy
routing capability for a week or month for a very cheap price so you
can evaluate the product, a feature which you don't get with Garmin or
Tomtom so you can evaluate it without having to resort to dodgy
copies. Nokia also seem determined to push it hard, while tomtom have
left the S60 platform at version 6 without simple changes to enable it
to work with internal GPSes, so you'd be unwise to buy that at the
moment unless they show signs of continuing to support the platform.

The copyright nazis will foam at the mouth at this suggestion, but
your best bet is to get dodgy copies of the main apps for evaluation,
the software market is difficult because you usually have to pay for
an app before you can find out if it's any good. There's no way to
evaluate these complicated apps beforehand without stealing them, then
of course it's up to your conscience about whether you pay for them.
Paying will give you access to the online services, which IMHO appear
to be worth it, they were in tomtom's case, and Garmin's appear to be
pretty good too. Not a problem with Nokia's payment model though, you
can thoroughly test it for a minimal fee, and traffic update support
is in the 2.0 beta although not functioning well yet.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
http://youtube.com/user/tarcus69
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarcus/

"ColinK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:17f485f0-7d7b-4f0e-b753-0707f0f0f860@o77g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> Hi
>
> What maps and software should I use with the Nokia N82?
>
> My preferences - in rank order
>
> Only use data connection when wifi available - don't use GSM network
> Load maps for most of Europe inc Romania, Norway and Russia
> Find current location on map
> Get directions on map - using postcode or address
> Find and store points of interest
> Get voice direction instructions while travelling.
>
> I realise I will not get all of these without sending data via the
> mobile network.
>
> but - which of thse services can I get without using gsm data.
> What software / maps should I use.
>
> I do not want to pay a subscription for Nokia maps and do not want to
> pay for data costs while roaming.
>
> Any advice or additional tips would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks ColinK


Garmin Mobile XT. All that and no data usage. If you need to download extra
maps, use your computer and transfer them to the phone. I use it in my N82
and it's extremely accurate.

ColinK <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi
>
> What maps and software should I use with the Nokia N82?
>
> My preferences - in rank order
>
> Only use data connection when wifi available - don't use GSM network
> Load maps for most of Europe inc Romania, Norway and Russia
> Find current location on map
> Get directions on map - using postcode or address
> Find and store points of interest
> Get voice direction instructions while travelling.
>
> I realise I will not get all of these without sending data via the
> mobile network.
>
> but - which of thse services can I get without using gsm data.
> What software / maps should I use.
>
> I do not want to pay a subscription for Nokia maps and do not want to
> pay for data costs while roaming.
>
> Any advice or additional tips would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks ColinK

just get an iphone, no charges for maps or gps.

On 2008-02-18, Oxford <[email protected]> wrote:

> just get an iphone, no charges for maps or gps.

So you get turn by turn voice navigation for free without needing to
have a data connection on the iphone? No you don't. Try paying
attention.

And there's no charge for GPS on the N82 or N95.

Go back to polishing your closed, restricted toy.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
http://youtube.com/user/tarcus69
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarcus/

"Ian Rawlings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2008-02-16, ColinK <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I do not want to pay a subscription for Nokia maps and do not want to
>> pay for data costs while roaming.
>
> Well, nokia maps can do all of it apart from voice-guided directions,
> you can load your maps onto the device so that it doesn't need to use
> the network to load them. I'm not sure on coverage for Europe though
> as I've got no need to check.
>
> If you desperately need voice-guided directions then you won't get
> anything decent for free unless you nick it, however if you find
> something that's nearly there, Nokia Maps actually uses fairly little
> storage space so you can always use whatever directional app you need
> for getting from A to B while using the free services of Nokia Maps to
> make up for any failures. You can plan a route in nokia maps without
> paying for it, all that you can't do is actually use the voice-guided
> navigation, it's pretty good for finding out where you are and what's
> around you, just not much good for use in a car.
>
> I've been playing with Tomtom, Nokia Maps and Garmin Mobile XT in an
> attempt to find out which ones are actually worth using, they're all
> far from perfect, Tomtom would be the best if it supported the
> internal GPS of the N95 but tomtom seem to have deserted the S60
> platform, Garmin would be much better if it didn't crash so often and
> occasionally lose *all* routes, waypoints and settings, and if it had
> better search facilities, and Nokia Maps is a little too simple at the
> moment. I have however not checked out Nokia Maps 2.0 Beta much.
> I've loaded it onto the phone but not played with it so far. Garmin
> does however have the advantage of a PC-based application called
> Mapsource which can make up for some of its shortcomings, including
> being able to restore your data if the mobile app chomps it all,
> although that's not much use if you're away from the computer!
>
> Currently my wallet is waiting for Tomtom 7 with support for the N95
> internal GPS to come out, if it's not out by the middle of the year
> then it'll have to be either Garmin or Nokia Maps (depending on how it
> develops).
>
> However, don't write off Nokia Maps too quickly, it's free for most
> functionality and doesn't need to use the network, and you can buy
> routing capability for a week or month for a very cheap price so you
> can evaluate the product, a feature which you don't get with Garmin or
> Tomtom so you can evaluate it without having to resort to dodgy
> copies. Nokia also seem determined to push it hard, while tomtom have
> left the S60 platform at version 6 without simple changes to enable it
> to work with internal GPSes, so you'd be unwise to buy that at the
> moment unless they show signs of continuing to support the platform.
>
> The copyright nazis will foam at the mouth at this suggestion, but
> your best bet is to get dodgy copies of the main apps for evaluation,
> the software market is difficult because you usually have to pay for
> an app before you can find out if it's any good. There's no way to
> evaluate these complicated apps beforehand without stealing them, then
> of course it's up to your conscience about whether you pay for them.
> Paying will give you access to the online services, which IMHO appear
> to be worth it, they were in tomtom's case, and Garmin's appear to be
> pretty good too. Not a problem with Nokia's payment model though, you
> can thoroughly test it for a minimal fee, and traffic update support
> is in the 2.0 beta although not functioning well yet.


When do you experience crashes with Garmin? That hasn't happened for me and
I use it frequently for prolonged periods.

Ian Rawlings <[email protected]> wrote in news:slrnfrih7s.oja.news06
@desktop.tarcus.org.uk:

> So you get turn by turn voice navigation for free without needing to
> have a data connection on the iphone? No you don't. Try paying
> attention.
>
>

http://www.nseries.com/N810

Internal GPS.
Wayfinder software included now that Nokia bought the company.
Maps stored on internal memory cards. No Sellphone carrier funny
business.
Maemo Mapper, free from the Linux hackers, requires sellphone data
connection if you want map/sat photo updates in realtime, but you can
load them onto the memory cards on wifi at home, if you like.

Sellphone service not required.

On 2008-02-18, Larry <[email protected]> wrote:

> Maemo Mapper, free from the Linux hackers, requires sellphone data
> connection if you want map/sat photo updates in realtime, but you can
> load them onto the memory cards on wifi at home, if you like.

Last version I tried on my Nokia N770 also needs a connection to plan
a route, and can't auto recalculate.

The closest competent app to "free" appears to be Nokia Maps, it can
plot a route and is much better than Maemo Mapper, and if you suddenly
need voice-guided navigation you can whip out the credit card and
provided you have a GPRS/3G connection at the time, buy a
short-timescale cheap license right there and then. I did that out in
the middle of nowhere. Once it's bought, you don't need the net
connection.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
http://youtube.com/user/tarcus69
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarcus/

Ian Rawlings <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 2008-02-18, Larry <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Maemo Mapper, free from the Linux hackers, requires sellphone data
>> connection if you want map/sat photo updates in realtime, but you can
>> load them onto the memory cards on wifi at home, if you like.
>
>Last version I tried on my Nokia N770 also needs a connection to plan
>a route, and can't auto recalculate.
>
>The closest competent app to "free" appears to be Nokia Maps, it can
>plot a route and is much better than Maemo Mapper, and if you suddenly
>need voice-guided navigation you can whip out the credit card and
>provided you have a GPRS/3G connection at the time, buy a
>short-timescale cheap license right there and then. I did that out in
>the middle of nowhere. Once it's bought, you don't need the net
>connection.

Thanks for that information. I was wondering if it needed the
Internet connection to actually do the voice routing. I may have to
give it a try.
--
Jim Rusling
More or Less Retired
Mustang, OK
http://www.rusling.org

Ian Rawlings <[email protected]> wrote in news:slrnfrj9ok.oja.news06
@desktop.tarcus.org.uk:

> On 2008-02-18, Larry <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Maemo Mapper, free from the Linux hackers, requires sellphone data
>> connection if you want map/sat photo updates in realtime, but you can
>> load them onto the memory cards on wifi at home, if you like.
>
> Last version I tried on my Nokia N770 also needs a connection to plan
> a route, and can't auto recalculate.
>
> The closest competent app to "free" appears to be Nokia Maps, it can
> plot a route and is much better than Maemo Mapper, and if you suddenly
> need voice-guided navigation you can whip out the credit card and
> provided you have a GPRS/3G connection at the time, buy a
> short-timescale cheap license right there and then. I did that out in
> the middle of nowhere. Once it's bought, you don't need the net
> connection.
>

That's true. Mapper uses an external service over the net for route
planning. Wayfinder, the N810 resident map program does not. It's
self-contained.

I don't see how these little phones are going to have enough storage for
the complex mapping programs, complete with data and maps. I just
plugged my 8GB SDHC Class 6 into the Windows box and the Navicore (same
as Wayfinder) root directory is:
1.46 GB (1,578,270,720 bytes)
in 30 directories of 324 files, which includes all the POI, map data,
etc., for all of North America, a free upgrade N800 Navicore buyers can
now download since Nokia bought the company. Before, you only got half
the USA, your choice which half, then had to buy more.

Navicore came with the N800 Navigation Kit (external Nokia GPS puck,
N800's great mobile suction cup mount to stick it to the windscreen and
the Navicore commercial software. It was about $180 at buy.com at that
time.

I quoted the N810 because he wanted an all in one unit with software
installed. Actually, having played with both, and using portable GPS
units on sailboats, I think that would be a mistake. The external GPS
works much better than internal because you can place the GPS with the
best view of the sky for best accuracy, while putting the tablet where
you can see it the best, which in a car ends up UNDER the metal roof
with poor sky visibility and lots of reflected signals which is bad for
an accurate fix. The N800/external GPS just works the best I've ever
owned. It will put you in a particular parking space on Virtual Earth's
satellite photo under Maemo Mapper...and will drive you down the exact
lane you are driving in on the composite map/satphoto as you go along,
downloading the appropriate mosaics of both over the BT DUN from the
Sellphone modem. I use Maemo Mapper lots more than I do
Navicore/Wayfinder's talking routing. Too bad Nokia doesn't combine the
two into a Wayfinder using Virtual Earth's sat photos.

As to the Sellphone, itself, having 1.5GB of data and not requiring data
connections, question: Would you sell the customers a stand alone
system that didn't require them to pay you by the month for data to feed
it? Of course you wouldn't! That'd be crazy!

That's why I call it a SELLphone....(c;

On 2008-02-18, Larry <[email protected]> wrote:

> I don't see how these little phones are going to have enough storage for
> the complex mapping programs, complete with data and maps.

Well, I've got Nokia Maps with all of the UK loaded, which takes up
164 megs for all the UK roads down to tiny ones like mine, I also have
Garmin Mapsource and tried loading a full UK map onto my ETrex but it
wanted a similar amount of space and I only had 64 megs on the etrex.
Garmin Mobile XT has the whole of the UK in 172 megs. Rememeber this
is full maps with lots of waypoints such as fuel stations, underground
stations, railway stations, cashpoints etc. Tomtom Mobile's Western
Europe maps, full road maps and waypoints for the UK, France, Germany
etc etc, takes up about 900 megs. On my Tomtom 910 the Western Europe
map took up about 400 megs more, I don't know why it's bigger as I
don't recall the detail being any better and Tomtom Mobile also has
the speed limits like the 910 (which are a great help in calculating
journey times accurately).

A modern mobile phone can have a GPS built in and 8 gig of storage so
the above is no problem. Even mid-range phones can have storage cards
that can easily cope with the above.

> Actually, having played with both, and using portable GPS
> units on sailboats, I think that would be a mistake. The external GPS
> works much better than internal because you can place the GPS with the
> best view of the sky for best accuracy, while putting the tablet where
> you can see it the best, which in a car ends up UNDER the metal roof
> with poor sky visibility and lots of reflected signals which is bad for
> an accurate fix.

In theory that's correct, however in practice the deterioration of the
signal is nowhere near bad enough for it to be a problem, when first
playing with my phone I put it in the metal cup holder of the cubby
box in my land rover, so it was level with my hip, in a metal box with
an open top, and still it kept a lock on and talked to me from there,
and this was driving through narrow streets in Bath with lots of tall
buildings either side! I was very impressed. In the past few weeks
I've never had the slightest problem with the signal reception of the
GPS built into the phone, and I've been keeping careful track of it as
I'm evaluating it for more permanent use.

I have a total of 7 GPSes, two Garmin hand-held units, four bluetooth
units, three of which are Sirfstar III chipsets, and one GPS-equipped
mobile phone. Out of those, the mobile phone is the one to get lock
the fastest and is the only one that can get a 3D fix when I'm sat
downstairs in my house, the others can't get a fix at all and lose fix
if I allow them to get a fix outside and then walk inside. The Nokia
N95 GPS however can pick up a fix from cold in my lounge, while I'm
holding it, no need to place it on a table without anything around
it. Very impressive. Also I'm not talking about a marginal fix, I
mean 6-10 satellites, low strength yes, but none of the others can
touch that, especially if I've got my hand wrapped around the antenna
(the N95 GPS antenna is in the keypad, where you hold it).

> As to the Sellphone, itself, having 1.5GB of data and not requiring data
> connections, question: Would you sell the customers a stand alone
> system that didn't require them to pay you by the month for data to feed
> it? Of course you wouldn't! That'd be crazy!

You would if you were trying to make it a selling point, however while
Nokia Maps is free for use just plotting where you are, plotting
routes or searching for points nearby, it's not free for voice-guided
navigation, that costs about £45 per year or so.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
http://youtube.com/user/tarcus69
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarcus/

In article news:<[email protected]>, Ian
Rawlings wrote:
> Once it's bought, you don't need the net connection.

So the capability to issue voice directions is built-into Nokia Maps,
you just need an active licence to use it? You can plan a route (and
follow it on screen) without paying?

That wasn't clear from anything else I've read about it. It makes the
N95 an altogether much more attractive proposition.

What's the level of detail like on Nokia Maps, compares with (say) the
TomTom?

Does the N95 have worthwhile PIM apps (diary, addressbook, To-Do list)
and are they usable with the keypad? (Yes, I know, this isn't the
really the place to ask, but (as sort-of noted above) it's hard to
discover any meaningful information about these things except by
asking.)

Cheers,
Daniel.

On 2008-02-19, Daniel James <[email protected]> wrote:

> So the capability to issue voice directions is built-into Nokia Maps,
> you just need an active licence to use it?

Yes that's right, also traffic updates will be a paid for service too.

> You can plan a route (and
> follow it on screen) without paying?

You can plan a route for free, but it won't plot your position on the
map as then you could use it like Google Maps, which is dangerous in a
car.

> That wasn't clear from anything else I've read about it. It makes the
> N95 an altogether much more attractive proposition.

Not just the N95, any S60 series 3 phone I think, some cheap options
are available. If the phone doesn't have GPS then it can use a
bluetooth GPS. If you're thinking of upgrading your phone then
consider a Nokia S60 series 3 phone, or even a Windows Mobile if
you're into that, they can run tomtom and I'm sure there's other
packages.

> What's the level of detail like on Nokia Maps, compares with (say) the
> TomTom?

I've not noticed any major differences, and I've been a tomtom user
for many years. I live in an area with a lot of small roads and it's
been fine, but I've not used Nokia Maps throughout the country.

> Does the N95 have worthwhile PIM apps (diary, addressbook, To-Do list)
> and are they usable with the keypad? (Yes, I know, this isn't the
> really the place to ask, but (as sort-of noted above) it's hard to
> discover any meaningful information about these things except by
> asking.)

It's OK, but nowhere near as good as Palm's tools, which themselves
were nowhere near as good as Psion's tools. However I've since
learned to use the reduced functionality, and no longer bother with
things like todo categories and event categories like I used to do,
after all there's only one of me, and I ended up with todo lists on my
palm that have hundreds of entries. You have to learn to do without
things like repeating todos (in fact anything other than timed
appointments can't repeat), however this is only if you stick to the
built-in apps, there's a huge number of Symbian applications
available, if you used to load lots of odd stuff onto your current PDA
then it's no different with the N95 and there are a lot of alternative
PIM apps. I use Handy Calendar which is quite simple and just uses
the standard database so there's no compatibility issues with syncing
software but there's much more capable stuff available.

As for the keypad, yes it's pretty usable, more so than trying to use
an on-screen keyboard or handwriting recognition mostly and can be
used one-handed so you can slouch around drinking coffee while sorting
your life out! The predictive text input is good but sometimes some
apps turn it off when presenting you with a text entry box and won't
let you turn it on, which is stupid but not too bad.

So far I'm very impressed with the N95, it doesn't do anything
extremely well, but does lots of things well enough. It's replaced my
ipod and itunes, battery powered speakers, Tomtom 910, Palm T3,
digital snapshot camera and normal mobile phone. It's also good
enough to read websites on, so I read the BBC news website in the
morning on it rather than my desktop computer. You've got at least 3
capable satnav systems available that cost around the £45-£90 mark
although tomtom won't use the internal GPS yet so don't buy that.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
http://youtube.com/user/tarcus69
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarcus/

On 2008-02-19, Ian Rawlings <[email protected]> wrote:

> You've got at least 3 capable satnav systems available that cost
> around the £45-£90 mark although tomtom won't use the internal GPS
> yet so don't buy that.

Something else worth mentioning however is that the phone doesn't have
a touch screen which doesn't really have much impact, it means you can
use the setup one-handed and don't have to keep reaching for a stylus
but on tomtom it does make selecting a specific POI a little harder,
you can however just get the cursor near it, hit a few keys to search
for nearby POIs and select the one you want. Nokia maps and garmin
have a pixel-perfect joystick-controlled pointer that you can use.
The reason I bring this up is because this year, second half I think,
Nokia are bringing out new phones which are supposed to have touch
screens so it might be worth watching what happens. I'm not sure
it'll be an improvement, it's rather a nice change not to have to
occupy your other hand with a stylus to poke away at a screen.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
http://youtube.com/user/tarcus69
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarcus/

In article news:<[email protected]>, Ian
Rawlings wrote:
> You can plan a route for free, but it won't plot your position on the
> map as then you could use it like Google Maps, which is dangerous in a
> car.

That sounds like a stupid reason for a limitation. It shouldn't assume
it knows whether you're in a car, and it shouldn't assume that you're
the driver if you are.

I suspect the real reason is to encourage you to pay for the navigation
service.

Thanks for the info, anyway.

> If you're thinking of upgrading your phone then consider a Nokia S60
> series 3 phone, or even a Windows Mobile if you're into that, ...

I can't see any phone out there that I'd want to replace my Nokia
6310i/CARK-91 combo with, TBH. There are lots of devices that have
attractive features but none of them constitute a package that I'd be
prepared to pay for (and replace the car kit, etc). A N95 with HVGA
screen and qwerty keyboard might do it for me ...

I do NOT want Windows Mobile in a phone ... I'd like to think that I'll
only miss calls because I can't hear the ringer and not because the
phone has crashed ... but on the other hand, a phone with GPS in that
could run TomTom and Memory Map would be attractive ... but if it ran MM
I'd want it to be waterproof ...

There are so many bits of kit that have great features, but none of them
have all the features I'd like without any drawbacks.

> It's OK, but nowhere near as good as Palm's tools, which themselves
> were nowhere near as good as Psion's tools.

OK, understood. As a Psion 3, 3a, 3c, 5 (too bulky, back to 3c) and Revo
(crap battery, back to 3c) and more recently Palm Tungsten user I
understand that perfectly.

SymbianOS seems a lot less usable -- and the supplied apps less
functional -- than it was when it was Psion's EPOC (if my wife's SE 910i
is anything to judge by).

> The predictive text input is good ...

Ooh, I HATE predictive text ... or, perhaps, what I mean is that I like
it when it works correctly, but the implementation on the 6310i makes
you jump through too many hoops to override it when it gets things wrong
-- easier just to turn it off (but then "Insert Symbol" disappears from
the options menu) ...

Thanks again for the info.

Cheers,
Daniel.