Oxygen software. Licence renewals

Hello, G!
You wrote on Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:18:36 +0100:

G> <snip>
>> This kind of licensing (1 user, 1 phone, 1 year) will put people off.
>> Your software seems very good and I would probably pay ~£25 for it if
>> I needed it - but not just for 1 handset - I have 3. Along with that,
>> I do see your software advertised against people's posts here in
>> places where the free
>> Nokia PC Suite and/or the cheaper and non-expiring non-phone-limited
>> LogoManager would do just as well for that person's needs as
>> specified in their post.

>> Adam
G> <snip>

G> As I understand it, you're dead right with your assessment of their
G> software licensing practices (1 user, 1 year, 1 handset). The
G> software seems quite good, I've tried the demo and liked it, but the
G> license limitation means I wouldn't even consider buying the
G> software. I would like to use it on my phone and my backup phone, but
G> this doesn't seem possible. I don't mind not getting support for
G> *newer* phones (i.e. not having updates after I've bought the
G> software, or only having updates for a limited time), but I expect
G> the software to work on my own phone and its replacement if it gets
G> broken (assuming its replaced with an identical model) without having
G> to depend upon the goodwill of the software vendor (which will, of
G> course depend on their interpretation of the situation, and their
G> mood at the time). And what happens if the software vendor
G> disappears? You lose your phone, and you're left with a dead bit of
G> code 'cause you can't get the IMEI of your new phone registered!

G> Not a good practice. Methinks this smacks of windows WPA (is that
G> where the idea came from?), and I'm not keen on that but can't do
G> without windows. I can (and will) manage without Oxygen phone manager
G> unless this changes, I'm sure many other people will too.

Indeed, when buying a license, you're buying a year of free updates and
technical support (including free change of phones and new phones
registration). So you are able to have all the latest versions with new
useful features for your Nokia phones. Also you can change your phones at
absolutely no charge during this year. After a year pass, you are able to
continue using your actual license with your phones registered on it, or
renew the license for a small price and get another year of free updates and
technical support!
Let's take Individual license as an example and clarify some moments. You
paid 39Euro for a product + 1 year of updates and technical support. "One
phone" limitation doesn't mean you can use the program with only one phone.
It means that you can *write data to one phone at every point of time*. So
if you decide to change your phone during this year, it will be no problem
and you won't pay any additional money for this.
After 1 year you can continue using the product with the last registered
phone as long as you want. Renewal price of 12.95Euro allows you to get one
more year of upgrades and technical support. If it would be more simple for
you, the
license cost formula is

License = Product + Updates&Support

Where "Product" is one-time payment; "Updates&Support" - regular yearly
payment.

If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.

Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
[email protected]
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk

---

› See More: Oxygen software. Licence renewals

"Steve Sweet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi Dolphin Boy
>
>
> > A reasonable man adapts to fit unfair circumstances.
> > Progress depends on unreasonable men adapting unfair circumsiances.
> > (I'm sure that i've significantly misquoted someone here, but you get
the
> > idea)
>
> Well you didn't quote anything other than the above sentence so we can
only
> guess what you're referring to!. 8~)
>
> --
>
> Regards, Steve. S.
>
> Tea Please, Hot!, 3 Sugars, Coconut Cookies, & no friggin war stories!!.
>
I've had to go away & look it up now!

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress
depends on the unreasonable man. "
George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950), Man and Superman (1903) "Maxims for
Revolutionists"

Ho Oxygen

> >> Reading comments in this newsgroup we make a decision to allow phone
> >> change in situations like this (I mean when the old phone is died) at
> >> no charge. But you'll need to send us a scancopy of the document
> >> confirming that the old phone is died. Otherwise you'll have to pay
> >> renewal fee.
>
> SS> Whilst i applaud this change in strategy and flexibility, this would
> SS> only seem to work if you were in a contract situation. I buy my
phones
> SS> on PAYG and without insurance so if i lost mine there'd be no 'proof'
> SS> of such. I'm sure this scenario would apply to others.
>
> Several customers in situation sent us lost phone confirmation from
> police. Don't you have any?

Not every loss of a phone is a police matter.

--

Regards, Steve. S.

Tea Please, Hot!, 3 Sugars, Coconut Cookies, & no friggin war stories!!.

Hello, Steve!
You wrote on Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:37:21 +0000 (UTC):

OS>> Several customers in situation sent us lost phone confirmation from
OS>> police. Don't you have any?

SS> Not every loss of a phone is a police matter.

Unfortunately if you haven't we can't help.

If you will have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us.

With best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
[email protected]
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk

"Oxygen Software" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> If it would be more simple for
> you, the
> license cost formula is
>
> License = Product + Updates&Support
>
> Where "Product" is one-time payment; "Updates&Support" - regular yearly
> payment.
>

Thanks for your reply. Just to clarify, as I understand it from your terms
and conditions the license formula is closer to;

License = Product (with use for several phones - 1 at any given time - for
up to 1 year, locked to 1 phone thereafter) + updates&support (for 1 year)

where it is necessary to contact Oxygen software at any time that the
software is required to work with an alternate phone, and this is charged
for outside the initial 1 year time period.

If my understanding is correct, then this is the reason I have no intention
of buying the software, despite it appearing to be well designed and
generally pretty good. I think it's unfair to charge in this manner, and
would only really be interested if your software formula was more in the
style of;

License = Product (with use for several phones - 1 at any given time) +
updates&support (for 1 year)

I've no problem with *not* receiving updates after the initial year, but I
would expect to still be able to use the software with any phone that was
supported at the time I bought it.

"G" <cool_and_funky@*-nospamthanks_*yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Oxygen Software" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > If it would be more simple for
> > you, the
> > license cost formula is
> >
> > License = Product + Updates&Support
> >
> > Where "Product" is one-time payment; "Updates&Support" - regular
yearly
> > payment.
> >
>
> Thanks for your reply. Just to clarify, as I understand it from your terms
> and conditions the license formula is closer to;
>
> License = Product (with use for several phones - 1 at any given time - for
> up to 1 year, locked to 1 phone thereafter) + updates&support (for 1 year)
>
> where it is necessary to contact Oxygen software at any time that the
> software is required to work with an alternate phone, and this is charged
> for outside the initial 1 year time period.
>
> If my understanding is correct, then this is the reason I have no
intention
> of buying the software, despite it appearing to be well designed and
> generally pretty good. I think it's unfair to charge in this manner, and
> would only really be interested if your software formula was more in the
> style of;
>
> License = Product (with use for several phones - 1 at any given time) +
> updates&support (for 1 year)
>
> I've no problem with *not* receiving updates after the initial year, but I
> would expect to still be able to use the software with any phone that was
> supported at the time I bought it.
>
>>>>>DB EXACTLY my opinion mate! Well said.

Hello, G!
You wrote on Thu, 18 Sep 2003 08:33:55 +0100:

>> If it would be more simple for you, the license cost formula is

>> License = Product + Updates&Support

>> Where "Product" is one-time payment; "Updates&Support" - regular
>> yearly payment.

G> Thanks for your reply. Just to clarify, as I understand it from your
G> terms and conditions the license formula is closer to;

G> License = Product (with use for several phones - 1 at any given time
G> - for up to 1 year, locked to 1 phone thereafter) + updates&support
G> (for 1 year)

No. Just as I said:

License = Product + Updates&Support.

You receive Product forever and Updates&Support for 1 year.

G> where it is necessary to contact Oxygen software at any time that the
G> software is required to work with an alternate phone, and this is
G> charged for outside the initial 1 year time period.

G> If my understanding is correct, then this is the reason I have no
G> intention of buying the software, despite it appearing to be well
G> designed and generally pretty good. I think it's unfair to charge in
G> this manner, and would only really be interested if your software
G> formula was more in the style of;

G> License = Product (with use for several phones - 1 at any given time)
G> +
G> updates&support (for 1 year)

G> I've no problem with *not* receiving updates after the initial year,
G> but I would expect to still be able to use the software with any
G> phone that was supported at the time I bought it.

We're not going to change the license conditions, because we consider them
they much more fair than, for example, paying upgrade fee for *each* minor
version of MobiMB. Just count how much (yearly) you will spend on OPM and
MobiMB and you'll understand that we're right.

If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.

Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
[email protected]
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk

"Oxygen Software" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> We're not going to change the license conditions, because we consider
them
> they much more fair than, for example, paying upgrade fee for *each* minor
> version of MobiMB. Just count how much (yearly) you will spend on OPM and
> MobiMB and you'll understand that we're right.

At the risk of turning this into yet another OPM vs LM/MobiMB slanging
match, you're comparing apples and oranges. In your case the software is
locked to any registered phones/s and in MobiMB's case, it'll work with any
compatible phone. Licensing agreements are your province, and you're
entitled to do whatever you wish with yours, but personally I prefer the
MobiMB license model.

--
>>> Unlock Your Phones Potential <<<
>>> http://www.thephonelocker.co.uk <<<
>>> http://www.uselessinfo.org.uk <<<

> I've no problem with *not* receiving updates after the initial year, but I
> would expect to still be able to use the software with any phone that was
> supported at the time I bought it.
But the licence of Oxygen dictates that you can use it with phones bought
within the valid licence agreement. After the agreement has expired you
need a new licence to register a new phone. Each phone has a serial,
therefore they are not the same phone, supported or otherwise. If you want
to register a phone to replace one lost, for free, outside the expiry this
software licence is not within your liking and you don't accept it and don't
use it. Simple.
But £10 to fix that problem (renew the licence as per agreement) and give
you all the latest updates for another year is well worth it when you
consider with MobiMB you pay for every upgrade, or pay for the upgrades you
want to use. Usually at £5 a time.
If they don't stick to these rules, people will be buying the latest phones
and saying they lost their old in order to get the latest free.
Are you all so tight and miserable you cannot afford to pay for development
of a decent product, especially when unlike Microsoft it isn't £100s a
time - but just £10?
They even generously offer if you provide proof of lost phone, will allow
you to add a same phone model in. I personally wouldn't bother - stick to
you pay £10, renew licence. It is your problem, not Oxygens - you bought
the software having read the licence, you also lost the phone. It is not
their fault so just pay the £10 and all will be well for a year with any
phones you want to register over the next 12 months, including the latest
updates, within the bounds of licence type.
That's it really.

If you don't like, buy Mike's MobiMB each time he tweaks it...
Excellent sw and perhaps if you didn't all pirate, would be made free
updates occasionally...

> From what I understood from the end of the thread you charge customers for
> your product which in turn allows them to use the software for 1 year on 1
> handset? Is this correct? If so this does seem a bit rare. The only other
> software I know of that does this are some virus killers which are updated
> on a weekly or bi-weekly basis and updates are an absolute must.
If you don't lose your phones, all phones registered, will work indefinitely
with the versions of Oxygen until 1 year is up and then you need to renew
licence to add in new phone s/n, replace stolen one etc (ie new phone s/n)
or use the latest updates. Until expiry you can change phones as often as
you want.

Point is person loses phone and wants to add in new phone in for free.
Valid point is licence dictates differently, he should have read before
buying sw, if didn't like terms, didn't have to buy. £10 is a very
reasonable update fee compared to most programs I know of. Once paid,
updates are free again for a year and phones can be registered as much as
liked.

Answer:
The UK are a very mean, tight bunch. Sounds logical business solution to
piracy to me.

Again, thanks for your feedback.

> No. Just as I said:
>
> License = Product + Updates&Support.
>
> You receive Product forever and Updates&Support for 1 year.
>

Fair point, although I think you're missing the aforementioned point. The
product is *only* useable with 1 phone forever, not with replacements. This
is a severe limitation in the product, caused by the licensing approach
IMHO.

> We're not going to change the license conditions, because we consider
them
> they much more fair than, for example, paying upgrade fee for *each* minor
> version of MobiMB. Just count how much (yearly) you will spend on OPM and
> MobiMB and you'll understand that we're right.

Fair enough. Just as I'm not going to buy it while these are the licensing
conditions. I prefer the other licensing model as it gives me more freedom
to do what I want (I will upgrade when I feel the software no longer does
what I need it to do, and I am happy to pay to do this); I get the product I
bought to use with as many phones as I want for as long as I want without
*ever* needing to contact the software makers again to allow me to change
phones. i.e. it won't expire if I change my phone.

If your licensing scheme is so fair, why don't you make this approach a
little more transparent than simply hiding it in the terms and conditions
(I'm sure you're aware that few people actually read those things)? It would
be interesting to see how many people are put off by this when it's
willingly explained to them. I doubt you'd do that though as I think you
know it'd put people off.

Respectfully, I think you missed my point. I like the software. I'd be happy
to buy it. I don't expect it to support phones developed *after* the point I
shelled out my hard-earned. Therefore it won't be future-proof and I accept
that. I'm happy to pay for the software or an upgrade if I then get a new
and more modern phone, I *don't* expect the developers to work for free.
However, I don't expect to pay for a new license if I lose a phone and get
it replaced with the same model, or a model that was around at the time I
bought the software and was stated to be supported by the software at the
time I paid for it, that's just tight.


"The Mole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > I've no problem with *not* receiving updates after the initial year, but
I
> > would expect to still be able to use the software with any phone that
was
> > supported at the time I bought it.
> But the licence of Oxygen dictates that you can use it with phones bought
> within the valid licence agreement. After the agreement has expired you
> need a new licence to register a new phone. Each phone has a serial,
> therefore they are not the same phone, supported or otherwise. If you
want
> to register a phone to replace one lost, for free, outside the expiry this
> software licence is not within your liking and you don't accept it and
don't
> use it. Simple.
> But £10 to fix that problem (renew the licence as per agreement) and give
> you all the latest updates for another year is well worth it when you
> consider with MobiMB you pay for every upgrade, or pay for the upgrades
you
> want to use. Usually at £5 a time.
> If they don't stick to these rules, people will be buying the latest
phones
> and saying they lost their old in order to get the latest free.
> Are you all so tight and miserable you cannot afford to pay for
development
> of a decent product, especially when unlike Microsoft it isn't £100s a
> time - but just £10?
> They even generously offer if you provide proof of lost phone, will allow
> you to add a same phone model in. I personally wouldn't bother - stick
to
> you pay £10, renew licence. It is your problem, not Oxygens - you bought
> the software having read the licence, you also lost the phone. It is not
> their fault so just pay the £10 and all will be well for a year with any
> phones you want to register over the next 12 months, including the latest
> updates, within the bounds of licence type.
> That's it really.
>
> If you don't like, buy Mike's MobiMB each time he tweaks it...
> Excellent sw and perhaps if you didn't all pirate, would be made free
> updates occasionally...
>
>

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 00:40:33 +0000 (UTC), "The Mole"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> From what I understood from the end of the thread you charge customers for
>> your product which in turn allows them to use the software for 1 year on 1
>> handset? Is this correct? If so this does seem a bit rare. The only other
>> software I know of that does this are some virus killers which are updated
>> on a weekly or bi-weekly basis and updates are an absolute must.
>If you don't lose your phones, all phones registered, will work indefinitely
>with the versions of Oxygen until 1 year is up and then you need to renew
>licence to add in new phone s/n, replace stolen one etc (ie new phone s/n)
>or use the latest updates. Until expiry you can change phones as often as
>you want.
>
>Point is person loses phone and wants to add in new phone in for free.
>Valid point is licence dictates differently, he should have read before
>buying sw, if didn't like terms, didn't have to buy.

Exactly where in the license does it say you cannot use a replacement
phone? Can you point out the wording that you say he should be
reading? I don't see it there.

"G" <cool_and_funky@*-nospamthanks_*yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Respectfully, I think you missed my point. I like the software. I'd be
happy
> to buy it. I don't expect it to support phones developed *after* the point
I
> shelled out my hard-earned. Therefore it won't be future-proof and I
accept
> that. I'm happy to pay for the software or an upgrade if I then get a new
> and more modern phone, I *don't* expect the developers to work for free.
> However, I don't expect to pay for a new license if I lose a phone and get
> it replaced with the same model, or a model that was around at the time I
> bought the software and was stated to be supported by the software at the
> time I paid for it, that's just tight.

Yes, maybe you do have a point.
Its not exactly clear here...I was more following the thread, but the
licence I agree doesn't explain this clearly - if I were a first time buyer
you wouldn't be aware once the year has run out that you need to continue
technical support in order to add in a lost phone so I guess Oxygen should
amend the licence so that the terms when having lost a phone is clear, or at
least make it clearer so you can come to that logical conclusion easily - ie
it is obvious, without saying it.

Here's my idea, perhaps the software could be revised to only recognise
certain phones, by nhm-5, nhm-6 read etc, then once expired, you can
register any three phones of those phones implimented as much as you like,
within the licence type - ie 1 phone, three phones, five phones etc but the
last build of the software you had at time of expiry, would not let you
register any new phones that have not yet been implimented. The software
would not recognise them. Then once the expiry occurs you could register
only the phones implimented in the current build, change your licence key,
but not get updates which have support for the latest handsets, until you
upgrade...

Maybe when you buy the software you get all updates of (build 1) etc which
say has say NHM5 and NHM6 but when say NHM2 comes out, the software build
changes to (build 2) and these you don't get these free. You need pay
another £10 to continue free updates, but the (build 1 series) you can use
happily forever? Something like that?

So you may for example have 2.0 (Build 1) all DCT3 and 2.0 (Build 2) may
have 8310 and 3510, 2.0 (Build 3) may have 3510i etc. You can get all the
Build 1 free, then you pay £10, all the Build 2 free etc. Ie 2.1 (Build
1), 2.2 (Build 1), pay £10 and 2.2 (Build 2) etc However Oxygen design it.

That way, you lot get infinite phones of same type on current last build you
have and Oxygen make a lot more money than just £10 as now you have to pay
every time a new phone is implimented. Which long term is more expensive,
but that is what the customer wants, if customer wants that, give them it.
Oxygen has tried to be generous with the licence, whilst tackling piracy -
if you have a better way, let us all know!

Mole

So whereas before you got your phones registered and could use indefinitely,
pay £10 to add new ones (including lost) now you pay every time a new phone
is implimented - if you choose to. However, providing you didn't lose your
phone you didn't have to pay anything extra after expiry, you just cannot
update builds or phones. It seems you lot won't stop till they impliment a
system where you can add in any phone of those currently, but when a new one
is out you have to pay for an upgrade.
So rather than getting the latest updates free, you just need to yearly top
up with a £10 you just pay £10 whenever you want to add a new phone not yet
supported by the current sw build and that way get any tweaks done etc.
This is very illogical, but if I was Oxygen I would have lost my temper by
now and done that - given you exactly what you ask for.
Mole.