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  1. #1
    Steven J Sobol
    Guest
    MTG <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I don't see how CSRs can pull data from one table and report information,
    > then the web site pulls data from another table that reports different data.
    >
    > Basic relational database design WOULD NEVER allow for this!!!!!!!!!


    You're assuming they're using the same copy of the database. But I
    agree with you.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * [email protected]



    See More: Your thoughts on another Sprint Blunder




  2. #2
    Scott Stephenson
    Guest

    Re: Your thoughts on another Sprint Blunder


    "MTG" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    > Dude...LOL...If they are using two DBs for the same data , that is a prime
    > example of how redundancy, when not setup properly, can bite you in the

    ass.
    >
    > I wish I could see their entire DB Schema.
    >
    > Anybody inside Sprint got a copy?? (If it exists...lol)
    >
    > "Steven J Sobol" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > MTG <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > I don't see how CSRs can pull data from one table and report

    > information,
    > > > then the web site pulls data from another table that reports different

    > data.
    > > >
    > > > Basic relational database design WOULD NEVER allow for this!!!!!!!!!

    > >
    > > You're assuming they're using the same copy of the database. But I
    > > agree with you.
    > >
    > > --
    > > JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    > > 22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    > > Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    > > 888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * [email protected]

    >


    Not two databases- two views of the database. If you're the type that
    thinks that any company is going to give you a direct view of production
    billing tables, I've got some nice land to sell you. Chances are that the
    website has a static table that is refreshed on a given schedule.






  3. #3
    MTG
    Guest

    Re: Your thoughts on another Sprint Blunder


    "Scott Stephenson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "MTG" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    > > Dude...LOL...If they are using two DBs for the same data , that is a

    prime
    > > example of how redundancy, when not setup properly, can bite you in the

    > ass.
    > >
    > > I wish I could see their entire DB Schema.
    > >
    > > Anybody inside Sprint got a copy?? (If it exists...lol)
    > >
    > > "Steven J Sobol" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > > > MTG <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > I don't see how CSRs can pull data from one table and report

    > > information,
    > > > > then the web site pulls data from another table that reports

    different
    > > data.
    > > > >
    > > > > Basic relational database design WOULD NEVER allow for this!!!!!!!!!
    > > >
    > > > You're assuming they're using the same copy of the database. But I
    > > > agree with you.
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    > > > 22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    > > > Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    > > > 888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * [email protected]

    > >

    >
    > Not two databases- two views of the database. If you're the type that
    > thinks that any company is going to give you a direct view of production
    > billing tables, I've got some nice land to sell you. Chances are that the
    > website has a static table that is refreshed on a given schedule.


    Of course I know Sprint itself isn't going to give that to me...But maybe
    someone inside IT could...lol

    And even worse if the table is static!!!!!!!! That could create so many
    problems...That would create a case of poor data integrity.

    A company like Sprint should easily be able to have a system that once you
    verifiy over the phone, or sign up in a store, or whatever, that contract
    date propogates to some table instantly, then any other tables that need
    that date can draw from the main table the date is housed in...seems like
    since there are two dates, one on CSR cpus and one on the web site, there
    are two distinct fields somewhere in the DB scheme that allow for
    independant insert operations...

    or maybe Sprint is being unprofessional as usual and the contract end date
    online is part of some sort of beta testing that is visible to the public





  4. #4
    MTG
    Guest

    Re: Your thoughts on another Sprint Blunder

    > Chances are that the
    > website has a static table that is refreshed on a given schedule.


    oh yeah, if that is the case Sprint needs to hit the refresh button 'cause
    the dates have been off for a long time!!!





  5. #5
    Scott Stephenson
    Guest

    Re: Your thoughts on another Sprint Blunder


    "MTG" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    > > Chances are that the
    > > website has a static table that is refreshed on a given schedule.

    >
    > oh yeah, if that is the case Sprint needs to hit the refresh button 'cause
    > the dates have been off for a long time!!!
    >
    >


    Now you're talking about something totally different- cointract dates won't
    be in the billing table.





  6. #6
    MTG
    Guest

    Re: Your thoughts on another Sprint Blunder


    "Scott Stephenson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "MTG" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    > > > Chances are that the
    > > > website has a static table that is refreshed on a given schedule.

    > >
    > > oh yeah, if that is the case Sprint needs to hit the refresh button

    'cause
    > > the dates have been off for a long time!!!
    > >
    > >

    >
    > Now you're talking about something totally different- cointract dates

    won't
    > be in the billing table.


    And what makes you think that?

    contract dates could be in any amount of tables.

    and considering that billing and contract dates have a relation, i could see
    a table with billing having a contract date attribute...especially if
    determing a bill may depend at some point, may include someone who
    terminated their contract before it was up which would warrant a
    cancellation fee...





  7. #7
    Scott Stephenson
    Guest

    Re: Your thoughts on another Sprint Blunder


    "MTG" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    >
    > "Scott Stephenson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]


    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > > Now you're talking about something totally different- cointract dates

    > won't
    > > be in the billing table.

    >
    > And what makes you think that?
    >
    > contract dates could be in any amount of tables.
    >
    > and considering that billing and contract dates have a relation, i could

    see
    > a table with billing having a contract date attribute...especially if
    > determing a bill may depend at some point, may include someone who
    > terminated their contract before it was up which would warrant a
    > cancellation fee...
    >
    >


    Why are you going to put a number of static values on the busiest table ,
    and then have to call to that table every time you need that value? Not
    only would it bog the system down horribly, but it would present a myriad of
    data integrity issues. This is not the way billing systems are designed.
    Static values reside on static tables, making them easily available to any
    number of calls, without affecting table performance on the most important
    table in the system. The ONLY identifier on the billing table will be the
    account number- everything else resides elsewhere.





  8. #8
    MTG
    Guest

    Re: Your thoughts on another Sprint Blunder


    "Scott Stephenson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "MTG" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    > >
    > > "Scott Stephenson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]

    >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > Now you're talking about something totally different- cointract dates

    > > won't
    > > > be in the billing table.

    > >
    > > And what makes you think that?
    > >
    > > contract dates could be in any amount of tables.
    > >
    > > and considering that billing and contract dates have a relation, i could

    > see
    > > a table with billing having a contract date attribute...especially if
    > > determing a bill may depend at some point, may include someone who
    > > terminated their contract before it was up which would warrant a
    > > cancellation fee...
    > >
    > >

    >
    > Why are you going to put a number of static values on the busiest table ,
    > and then have to call to that table every time you need that value? Not
    > only would it bog the system down horribly, but it would present a myriad

    of
    > data integrity issues. This is not the way billing systems are designed.
    > Static values reside on static tables, making them easily available to any
    > number of calls, without affecting table performance on the most important
    > table in the system. The ONLY identifier on the billing table will be the
    > account number- everything else resides elsewhere.


    ok i see where you are coming from. and i agree. i'm still just confused
    on why there are two contract date values...





  9. #9
    Steven J Sobol
    Guest

    Re: Your thoughts on another Sprint Blunder

    MTG <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Dude...LOL...If they are using two DBs for the same data , that is a prime
    > example of how redundancy, when not setup properly, can bite you in the ass.


    Yup.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * [email protected]



  10. #10
    Steven J Sobol
    Guest

    Re: Your thoughts on another Sprint Blunder

    Scott Stephenson <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Not two databases- two views of the database.


    Objection, Your Honor - assumes intelligence not in evidence.

    I know plenty of companies that hire people stupid enough that they'd do
    something like that.


    > If you're the type that
    > thinks that any company is going to give you a direct view of production
    > billing tables, I've got some nice land to sell you. Chances are that the
    > website has a static table that is refreshed on a given schedule.


    Perhaps. Probably. I haven't, as a customer, seen much that convinces me
    that the billing software was designed or deployed rationally...


    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * [email protected]



  11. #11
    tom ronson
    Guest

    Re: Your thoughts on another Sprint Blunder

    "MTG" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]

    >i'm still just confused on why there are two contract date values...


    Obfuscation? Can you name any other industry that has such problems with
    billing systems? (Sprint's not alone in this) ---- and making it more
    surprising is that all of these company's wireled side cousins don't appear
    to have these problems.

    While it takes the truly cynical to think that these systems are sloppy for
    a reason (which is what I believe to be the case) it does make one wonder if
    you screw a million folks out of a $1 here or there a month and only 75,000
    of them catch it and get it corrected you're still looking at a pretty good
    piece of change in "mistakes".

    I don't believe for a minute these systems need to be this FUBAR, but
    without an incentive to fix them why bother? To stop a few carps on a NG?
    Get serious.

    The best tip that I can offer is make your deal with Sprint, in a store so
    you have a written record (or record the order yourself over the phone ---
    stating the date and time at the beginning of the call and end of the call)
    and stick to it. Then when they have a problem you've got history and
    evidence on your side. That way any "errors" are glaring when the bill
    arrives monthly.

    In your case make them prove it beyond "because we said so" --- they say
    they've got a recording of all transactions (which I don't believe for a
    second) --- make them present it to you. It shouldn't matte how long it
    takes --- make them cough up a transaction that puts you at either of the
    dates they've got on record for you --- both of which are probably wrong
    anyway.

    Really, preparing a bill and maintaining a customer folder isn't rocket
    science --- lots of industries do it every day and none of them seem to have
    the problems that cell co's have with it. And while I hate the government
    being involved in any business maybe this industry is begging for the
    attitude adjustment that would come with minimal regulation on what's
    expected for a real billing system.

    I say this even though my bill fluctuates a buck a month --- for a fixed
    price service. Go figure, huh?

    --tr





  12. #12
    Scott Stephenson
    Guest

    Re: Your thoughts on another Sprint Blunder


    "MTG" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    >


    >
    > ok i see where you are coming from. and i agree. i'm still just confused
    > on why there are two contract date values...
    >
    >


    My guess is that the website is calling up some other date- basically
    calling from the wrong field. If Customer Care is giving one date (the
    right one) then this would seem to be the case.





  13. #13
    Scott Stephenson
    Guest

    Re: Your thoughts on another Sprint Blunder


    "Steven J Sobol" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Scott Stephenson <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > Not two databases- two views of the database.

    >
    > Objection, Your Honor - assumes intelligence not in evidence.


    Don't we do that every time we post?

    >
    > I know plenty of companies that hire people stupid enough that they'd do
    > something like that.


    True- without starting a true flamewar, I think we can both think of an
    alt.sprint.pcs resident who is employed by someone.

    >
    >
    > > If you're the type that
    > > thinks that any company is going to give you a direct view of production
    > > billing tables, I've got some nice land to sell you. Chances are that

    the
    > > website has a static table that is refreshed on a given schedule.

    >
    > Perhaps. Probably. I haven't, as a customer, seen much that convinces me
    > that the billing software was designed or deployed rationally...


    One thing to keep in mind- Sprint did not design or write any code for the
    billing software they use. It was purchased elsewhere, and while they had a
    great deal of input into some of the functionality and design, they are
    totally in the dark when it comes to the inner workings of the application-
    most application vendors have taken the Microsoft approach and closed most
    of the code to the end user. This is not unique to Sprint- all cellular
    companies (as well as most of the free world corporations) are in the same
    boat. And the billing software is a living, breathing application-
    constantly being modified and updated. And while these changes get tested
    in a test environment, a lot can happen in the real world that can't be
    replicated or anticipated in a test.

    One more thing- as part of the pruchase agreement, Sprint is more than
    likely at the mercy of their vendor to provide support for the application.
    Again, not unusual to Sprint.


    >
    >
    > --
    > JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
    > 22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    > Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    > 888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * [email protected]JustThe.net






  14. #14
    MTG
    Guest

    Re: Your thoughts on another Sprint Blunder


    "Scott Stephenson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news[email protected]
    >
    > "MTG" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    > >

    >
    > >
    > > ok i see where you are coming from. and i agree. i'm still just

    confused
    > > on why there are two contract date values...
    > >
    > >

    >
    > My guess is that the website is calling up some other date- basically
    > calling from the wrong field. If Customer Care is giving one date (the
    > right one) then this would seem to be the case.


    Not saying that isn't the issue, but one would think someone has called it
    to Sprint's attention and changing the code would be done instantly...





  15. #15
    Scott Stephenson
    Guest

    Re: Your thoughts on another Sprint Blunder


    "MTG" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]

    >
    > Not saying that isn't the issue, but one would think someone has called it
    > to Sprint's attention and changing the code would be done instantly...
    >
    >


    Agreed.





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