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  1. #1
    CK
    Guest
    (I am crossposting this to several wireless groups in hope that I can get a
    correct answer)

    I have been trying without luck to find out the technology/process behind
    WLNP. I have recently heard that all WLNP does is create somewhat of an
    "autoforward" from carrier A to carrier B. If this is correct, it seems
    that people who port their number are still at the mercy of their old
    carriers and could possibly suffer from degraded service more frequently.
    Example: Number 777-111-1111 belongs to an original Nextel customer. That
    customer decides that he wants to go to Verizon and submits a WLNP request.
    After it goes to the third party and the transfer is complete, he now gets
    in incoming call on new providers phone. Since the old number is assigned
    by the NPA to original carrier, would it not still go through their switch?
    If this is the case, it seems it would create latency. Also, what happens
    in several years when millions of numbers are ported? Could it not bog down
    the PSTN? What happens when an already ported number is ported to yet
    another carrier?Additionally, when you take land lines into account it can
    get even murkier. An ILEC land line goes wireless. When that number is
    eventually cancelled who gets to reassign it? Does that last carrier who
    had it get it or does it go back to the original carrier. If anyone has any
    insight into this, please post it. I think a lot of people may be curious
    what goes on "behind the scenes" to port a number.





    See More: What is the technology behind WLNP?




  2. #2
    Thomas M. Goethe
    Guest

    Re: What is the technology behind WLNP?

    You might do some research on Telecommunication Services, Inc. in Tampa.
    They are a VZW spin-off and handle the porting for five of the six majors.
    AT&T is the exception.


    --
    Thomas M. Goethe

    "CK" <[email protected]> wrote in message news[email protected]
    > (I am crossposting this to several wireless groups in hope that I can get

    a
    > correct answer)
    >
    > I have been trying without luck to find out the technology/process behind
    > WLNP. I have recently heard that all WLNP does is create somewhat of an
    > "autoforward" from carrier A to carrier B. If this is correct, it seems
    > that people who port their number are still at the mercy of their old
    > carriers and could possibly suffer from degraded service more frequently.
    > Example: Number 777-111-1111 belongs to an original Nextel customer. That
    > customer decides that he wants to go to Verizon and submits a WLNP

    request.
    > After it goes to the third party and the transfer is complete, he now gets
    > in incoming call on new providers phone. Since the old number is assigned
    > by the NPA to original carrier, would it not still go through their

    switch?
    > If this is the case, it seems it would create latency. Also, what happens
    > in several years when millions of numbers are ported? Could it not bog

    down
    > the PSTN? What happens when an already ported number is ported to yet
    > another carrier?Additionally, when you take land lines into account it can
    > get even murkier. An ILEC land line goes wireless. When that number is
    > eventually cancelled who gets to reassign it? Does that last carrier who
    > had it get it or does it go back to the original carrier. If anyone has

    any
    > insight into this, please post it. I think a lot of people may be curious
    > what goes on "behind the scenes" to port a number.
    >
    >






  3. #3
    Steve Crow
    Guest

    Re: What is the technology behind WLNP?

    Might I also suggest the comp.dcom.telecom newsgroup...

    On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Thomas M. Goethe wrote:

    > You might do some research on Telecommunication Services, Inc. in Tampa.
    > They are a VZW spin-off and handle the porting for five of the six majors.
    > AT&T is the exception.
    >
    >
    > --
    > Thomas M. Goethe
    >
    > "CK" <[email protected]> wrote in message news[email protected]
    > > (I am crossposting this to several wireless groups in hope that I can get

    > a
    > > correct answer)
    > >
    > > I have been trying without luck to find out the technology/process behind
    > > WLNP. I have recently heard that all WLNP does is create somewhat of an
    > > "autoforward" from carrier A to carrier B. If this is correct, it seems
    > > that people who port their number are still at the mercy of their old
    > > carriers and could possibly suffer from degraded service more frequently.
    > > Example: Number 777-111-1111 belongs to an original Nextel customer. That
    > > customer decides that he wants to go to Verizon and submits a WLNP

    > request.
    > > After it goes to the third party and the transfer is complete, he now gets
    > > in incoming call on new providers phone. Since the old number is assigned
    > > by the NPA to original carrier, would it not still go through their

    > switch?
    > > If this is the case, it seems it would create latency. Also, what happens
    > > in several years when millions of numbers are ported? Could it not bog

    > down
    > > the PSTN? What happens when an already ported number is ported to yet
    > > another carrier?Additionally, when you take land lines into account it can
    > > get even murkier. An ILEC land line goes wireless. When that number is
    > > eventually cancelled who gets to reassign it? Does that last carrier who
    > > had it get it or does it go back to the original carrier. If anyone has

    > any
    > > insight into this, please post it. I think a lot of people may be curious
    > > what goes on "behind the scenes" to port a number.
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    >



    ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
    http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
    ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---



  4. #4
    O/Siris
    Guest

    Re: What is the technology behind WLNP?

    In article <[email protected]>,=20
    [email protected] says...
    > I have been trying without luck to find out the technology/process behind
    > WLNP. I have recently heard that all WLNP does is create somewhat of an
    > "autoforward" from carrier A to carrier B.
    >=20


    We didn't get much technical training on what happens. =20
    however, based on what I *did* get, this doesn't sound at=20
    all correct.

    --=20
    -+-
    R=D8=DF
    O/Siris
    I work for SprintPCS
    I *don't* speak for them.



  5. #5
    CharlesH
    Guest

    Re: What is the technology behind WLNP?

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Thomas M. Goethe <[email protected]> wrote:
    > You might do some research on Telecommunication Services, Inc. in Tampa.
    >They are a VZW spin-off and handle the porting for five of the six majors.
    >AT&T is the exception.
    >
    >
    >--
    >Thomas M. Goethe
    >
    >"CK" <[email protected]> wrote in message news[email protected]
    >> (I am crossposting this to several wireless groups in hope that I can get

    >a
    >> correct answer)
    >>
    >> I have been trying without luck to find out the technology/process behind
    >> WLNP.


    Same mechanism for wireless and wireline LNP:

    The calling switch looks at the <area code><3-digit prefix>. If it
    is flagged as non-portable, the calling switch just looks up the
    provider associated with that prefix, and sends it on its way.

    If it is flagged as portable, the calling switch has to query a
    database with the full 10 digit number to determine where to
    send the call. This query returns a fake number from which the calling
    switch can determine the provider (using the old lookup technique).
    It then directs the call directly to the appropriate provider.
    This fake number is NOT equivalent to your ported number; it just
    identifies where to route the call, and all calls to be routed to that
    same destination use the same fake number. Your new provider
    uses your normal number in its databases to connect to you.

    Actually routing the call through the original provider and having it
    forward the call to the new provider is a "hack" which is rarely used
    any more.

    (Information derived from comp.dcom.telecom archives.)




  6. #6
    Isaiah Beard
    Guest

    Re: What is the technology behind WLNP?

    CK wrote:

    > (I am crossposting this to several wireless groups in hope that I can get a
    > correct answer)
    >
    > I have been trying without luck to find out the technology/process behind
    > WLNP. I have recently heard that all WLNP does is create somewhat of an
    > "autoforward" from carrier A to carrier B. If this is correct, it seems
    > that people who port their number are still at the mercy of their old
    > carriers and could possibly suffer from degraded service more frequently.



    Absolutely, they are at the mercy of their old carriers. Despite all
    the wonderful features that SS7 networks provide that makes everything
    seem so transparent to us, the end users, the network is still bound by
    rules that have been in effect since the old wireline network was first
    started. Namely, exchanges are still bound in some way to a physical
    location, a switching center that governs a particular exchange. If you
    port your number, all long distance, wireless, and cell phone companies
    will still try to route the call through your old wireless company,
    because that's how the network was designed. Only once the call reaches
    your old exchange, the switching center says "no, no, the call must be
    routed here now..." and sends the call along to your new carrier.

    Porting does not transfer "ownership" of that number to the new company
    you're with. In fact, if you port, the network STILL sees your new
    wireless phone as having a different number than the one you're porting.
    It's kind of like getting a new e-mail address on another ISP, but
    setting a permanent forward on your old e-mail address. You can modify
    your "From: header to reflect the old address, and people can still send
    to the old address and it'll show up in your new inbox, but there's
    still an underlying new e-mail address where all of your mail is being
    sent. And if your old mail server goes down, then you will not receive
    e-mail addressed to it at your new inbox.

    Likewise, if the switching center at your old cell company gets wiped
    out, people will not be able to reach you on your new cell phone, even
    if your current cell company's switching center is up and running.


    If you get into the field service mode of most new phones, you'll see
    two numbers. The first is your "MDN" or Mobile Directory Number. This
    is the number you have ported. The second number is your "MobileID," a
    15-digit number (In Sprint's case, anyway) that uniquely identifies your
    phone to the public network. The MobileID is different from your
    phone's ESN, and if you have NOT ported your number to another carrier,
    you'll find that the last 10 digits of your MobileID will match your
    MDN, or cell phone number. If you HAVE ported your number, then the MDN
    and MobileID will not match up, and the MobileID will instead have a
    phone number belonging to the new cell company that is assigned to your
    cell, but you ever use.


    > Example: Number 777-111-1111 belongs to an original Nextel customer. That
    > customer decides that he wants to go to Verizon and submits a WLNP request.
    > After it goes to the third party and the transfer is complete, he now gets
    > in incoming call on new providers phone. Since the old number is assigned
    > by the NPA to original carrier, would it not still go through their switch?


    Yes, it will.


    > If this is the case, it seems it would create latency.


    Yes, it would.

    It's also going to be interesting to see what happens when (not if, but
    when):

    1. The industry runs into "serial disloyalists" who change their carrier
    EVERY time their contract expires to in order to get a free shiny new
    phone each year or two, and continually ports their original number.
    Will there be communication with the original cell company to change its
    routing? Or will call to the ported number bounce from the first
    carrier, to the second carrier, to the third, and so on? I would hope
    the former, but I wouldn't be surprised if the latter happened, and it
    would be amusing to see how service would degrade once calls have to go
    through so many hoops.

    2. What happens if you port your number from carrier A to carrier B but
    then later, carrier B goes bankrupt [email protected] style, liquidates
    *everything* and just shuts down? Who will administer the ported
    numbers then? Will someone buying the assets of the old company be
    required (or if not required, willing) to accept that liability?



    > Also, what happens
    > in several years when millions of numbers are ported? Could it not bog down
    > the PSTN?


    It probably could. What's more, the way I understand all of this,
    the new cell phone company must STILL assign you a phone number on their
    network even if you never intend on using it, because the network must
    still have some sort of number to forward your calls to. Given the
    impending scarcity of phone numbers (we're running a little low on area
    codes in North America), this mess is a bit irksome to someone like me
    who realize that a lot of perfectly good phone numbers will be occupied
    by people who will never give out those numbers, never dial them, and
    neither knows nor could care less that the number is even assigned to them.

    I have a feeling a lot of these factors have not been truly thought out.
    But, we will see. Personally, I would still make a clean break from
    any carrier I'm with if I felt that compelled to have to switch. If I
    ever switch carriers, then I'm switching phone numbers too. The LNP
    mess just isn't worth it.


    --
    E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
    Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.




  7. #7
    Isaiah Beard
    Guest

    Re: What is the technology behind WLNP?

    CharlesH wrote:


    > Actually routing the call through the original provider and having it
    > forward the call to the new provider is a "hack" which is rarely used
    > any more.


    Ah, okay. if this is the case, then my previous post is mostly moot.
    Though the fact that we have a lot of "fake" numbers being scooped up is
    a cause for concern.


    --
    E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
    Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.




  8. #8
    CK
    Guest

    Re: What is the technology behind WLNP?

    So every ported phone will actually occupy 2 different numbers? The
    original number from former carrier and a number from the new carrier? That
    does not seem to be a very effcient use of numbers which are supposedly in
    short supply.


    "Isaiah Beard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > CK wrote:
    >
    > > (I am crossposting this to several wireless groups in hope that I can

    get a
    > > correct answer)
    > >
    > > I have been trying without luck to find out the technology/process

    behind
    > > WLNP. I have recently heard that all WLNP does is create somewhat of an
    > > "autoforward" from carrier A to carrier B. If this is correct, it seems
    > > that people who port their number are still at the mercy of their old
    > > carriers and could possibly suffer from degraded service more

    frequently.
    >
    >
    > Absolutely, they are at the mercy of their old carriers. Despite all
    > the wonderful features that SS7 networks provide that makes everything
    > seem so transparent to us, the end users, the network is still bound by
    > rules that have been in effect since the old wireline network was first
    > started. Namely, exchanges are still bound in some way to a physical
    > location, a switching center that governs a particular exchange. If you
    > port your number, all long distance, wireless, and cell phone companies
    > will still try to route the call through your old wireless company,
    > because that's how the network was designed. Only once the call reaches
    > your old exchange, the switching center says "no, no, the call must be
    > routed here now..." and sends the call along to your new carrier.
    >
    > Porting does not transfer "ownership" of that number to the new company
    > you're with. In fact, if you port, the network STILL sees your new
    > wireless phone as having a different number than the one you're porting.
    > It's kind of like getting a new e-mail address on another ISP, but
    > setting a permanent forward on your old e-mail address. You can modify
    > your "From: header to reflect the old address, and people can still send
    > to the old address and it'll show up in your new inbox, but there's
    > still an underlying new e-mail address where all of your mail is being
    > sent. And if your old mail server goes down, then you will not receive
    > e-mail addressed to it at your new inbox.
    >
    > Likewise, if the switching center at your old cell company gets wiped
    > out, people will not be able to reach you on your new cell phone, even
    > if your current cell company's switching center is up and running.
    >
    >
    > If you get into the field service mode of most new phones, you'll see
    > two numbers. The first is your "MDN" or Mobile Directory Number. This
    > is the number you have ported. The second number is your "MobileID," a
    > 15-digit number (In Sprint's case, anyway) that uniquely identifies your
    > phone to the public network. The MobileID is different from your
    > phone's ESN, and if you have NOT ported your number to another carrier,
    > you'll find that the last 10 digits of your MobileID will match your
    > MDN, or cell phone number. If you HAVE ported your number, then the MDN
    > and MobileID will not match up, and the MobileID will instead have a
    > phone number belonging to the new cell company that is assigned to your
    > cell, but you ever use.
    >
    >
    > > Example: Number 777-111-1111 belongs to an original Nextel customer.

    That
    > > customer decides that he wants to go to Verizon and submits a WLNP

    request.
    > > After it goes to the third party and the transfer is complete, he now

    gets
    > > in incoming call on new providers phone. Since the old number is

    assigned
    > > by the NPA to original carrier, would it not still go through their

    switch?
    >
    > Yes, it will.
    >
    >
    > > If this is the case, it seems it would create latency.

    >
    > Yes, it would.
    >
    > It's also going to be interesting to see what happens when (not if, but
    > when):
    >
    > 1. The industry runs into "serial disloyalists" who change their carrier
    > EVERY time their contract expires to in order to get a free shiny new
    > phone each year or two, and continually ports their original number.
    > Will there be communication with the original cell company to change its
    > routing? Or will call to the ported number bounce from the first
    > carrier, to the second carrier, to the third, and so on? I would hope
    > the former, but I wouldn't be surprised if the latter happened, and it
    > would be amusing to see how service would degrade once calls have to go
    > through so many hoops.
    >
    > 2. What happens if you port your number from carrier A to carrier B but
    > then later, carrier B goes bankrupt [email protected] style, liquidates
    > *everything* and just shuts down? Who will administer the ported
    > numbers then? Will someone buying the assets of the old company be
    > required (or if not required, willing) to accept that liability?
    >
    >
    >
    > > Also, what happens
    > > in several years when millions of numbers are ported? Could it not bog

    down
    > > the PSTN?

    >
    > It probably could. What's more, the way I understand all of this,
    > the new cell phone company must STILL assign you a phone number on their
    > network even if you never intend on using it, because the network must
    > still have some sort of number to forward your calls to. Given the
    > impending scarcity of phone numbers (we're running a little low on area
    > codes in North America), this mess is a bit irksome to someone like me
    > who realize that a lot of perfectly good phone numbers will be occupied
    > by people who will never give out those numbers, never dial them, and
    > neither knows nor could care less that the number is even assigned to

    them.
    >
    > I have a feeling a lot of these factors have not been truly thought out.
    > But, we will see. Personally, I would still make a clean break from
    > any carrier I'm with if I felt that compelled to have to switch. If I
    > ever switch carriers, then I'm switching phone numbers too. The LNP
    > mess just isn't worth it.
    >
    >
    > --
    > E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
    > Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.
    >






  9. #9
    CharlesH
    Guest

    Re: What is the technology behind WLNP?

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Isaiah Beard <[email protected]> wrote:
    >CharlesH wrote:
    >
    >> Actually routing the call through the original provider and having it
    >> forward the call to the new provider is a "hack" which is rarely used
    >> any more.

    >
    >Ah, okay. if this is the case, then my previous post is mostly moot.
    >Though the fact that we have a lot of "fake" numbers being scooped up is
    >a cause for concern.


    The business with the fake routing number I was talking about requires
    only one fake number per carrier per rate center, where a rate center
    is a group of exchanges which are grouped together for billing
    purposes.




  10. #10
    CharlesH
    Guest

    Re: What is the technology behind WLNP?

    In article <[email protected]>, CK <[email protected]> wrote:
    >So every ported phone will actually occupy 2 different numbers? The
    >original number from former carrier and a number from the new carrier? That
    >does not seem to be a very effcient use of numbers which are supposedly in
    >short supply.
    >
    >"Isaiah Beard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]
    >> CK wrote:
    >>
    >> > (I am crossposting this to several wireless groups in hope that I can

    >get a
    >> > correct answer)
    >> >
    >> > I have been trying without luck to find out the technology/process

    >behind
    >> > WLNP. I have recently heard that all WLNP does is create somewhat of an
    >> > "autoforward" from carrier A to carrier B. If this is correct, it seems
    >> > that people who port their number are still at the mercy of their old
    >> > carriers and could possibly suffer from degraded service more

    >frequently.
    >>
    >>
    >> Absolutely, they are at the mercy of their old carriers. Despite all
    >> the wonderful features that SS7 networks provide that makes everything
    >> seem so transparent to us, the end users, the network is still bound by
    >> rules that have been in effect since the old wireline network was first
    >> started. Namely, exchanges are still bound in some way to a physical
    >> location, a switching center that governs a particular exchange. If you
    >> port your number, all long distance, wireless, and cell phone companies
    >> will still try to route the call through your old wireless company,
    >> because that's how the network was designed. Only once the call reaches
    >> your old exchange, the switching center says "no, no, the call must be
    >> routed here now..." and sends the call along to your new carrier.
    >>
    >> Porting does not transfer "ownership" of that number to the new company
    >> you're with. In fact, if you port, the network STILL sees your new
    >> wireless phone as having a different number than the one you're porting.
    >> It's kind of like getting a new e-mail address on another ISP, but
    >> setting a permanent forward on your old e-mail address. You can modify
    >> your "From: header to reflect the old address, and people can still send
    >> to the old address and it'll show up in your new inbox, but there's
    >> still an underlying new e-mail address where all of your mail is being
    >> sent. And if your old mail server goes down, then you will not receive
    >> e-mail addressed to it at your new inbox.
    >>
    >> Likewise, if the switching center at your old cell company gets wiped
    >> out, people will not be able to reach you on your new cell phone, even
    >> if your current cell company's switching center is up and running.
    >>
    >> If you get into the field service mode of most new phones, you'll see
    >> two numbers. The first is your "MDN" or Mobile Directory Number. This
    >> is the number you have ported. The second number is your "MobileID," a
    >> 15-digit number (In Sprint's case, anyway) that uniquely identifies your
    >> phone to the public network. The MobileID is different from your
    >> phone's ESN, and if you have NOT ported your number to another carrier,
    >> you'll find that the last 10 digits of your MobileID will match your
    >> MDN, or cell phone number. If you HAVE ported your number, then the MDN
    >> and MobileID will not match up, and the MobileID will instead have a
    >> phone number belonging to the new cell company that is assigned to your
    >> cell, but you ever use.
    >>
    >>
    >> > Example: Number 777-111-1111 belongs to an original Nextel customer.

    >That
    >> > customer decides that he wants to go to Verizon and submits a WLNP

    >request.
    >> > After it goes to the third party and the transfer is complete, he now

    >gets
    >> > in incoming call on new providers phone. Since the old number is

    >assigned
    >> > by the NPA to original carrier, would it not still go through their

    >switch?
    >>
    >> Yes, it will.
    >>
    >> > If this is the case, it seems it would create latency.

    >>
    >> Yes, it would.
    >>
    >> It's also going to be interesting to see what happens when (not if, but
    >> when):
    >>
    >> 1. The industry runs into "serial disloyalists" who change their carrier
    >> EVERY time their contract expires to in order to get a free shiny new
    >> phone each year or two, and continually ports their original number.
    >> Will there be communication with the original cell company to change its
    >> routing? Or will call to the ported number bounce from the first
    >> carrier, to the second carrier, to the third, and so on? I would hope
    >> the former, but I wouldn't be surprised if the latter happened, and it
    >> would be amusing to see how service would degrade once calls have to go
    >> through so many hoops.
    >>
    >> 2. What happens if you port your number from carrier A to carrier B but
    >> then later, carrier B goes bankrupt [email protected] style, liquidates
    >> *everything* and just shuts down? Who will administer the ported
    >> numbers then? Will someone buying the assets of the old company be
    >> required (or if not required, willing) to accept that liability?
    >>
    >> > Also, what happens
    >> > in several years when millions of numbers are ported? Could it not bog

    >down
    >> > the PSTN?

    >>
    >> It probably could. What's more, the way I understand all of this,
    >> the new cell phone company must STILL assign you a phone number on their
    >> network even if you never intend on using it, because the network must
    >> still have some sort of number to forward your calls to. Given the
    >> impending scarcity of phone numbers (we're running a little low on area
    >> codes in North America), this mess is a bit irksome to someone like me
    >> who realize that a lot of perfectly good phone numbers will be occupied
    >> by people who will never give out those numbers, never dial them, and
    >> neither knows nor could care less that the number is even assigned to

    >them.
    >>
    >> I have a feeling a lot of these factors have not been truly thought out.
    >> But, we will see. Personally, I would still make a clean break from
    >> any carrier I'm with if I felt that compelled to have to switch. If I
    >> ever switch carriers, then I'm switching phone numbers too. The LNP
    >> mess just isn't worth it.


    I am somewhat confused here. According to the gurus at comp.dcom.telecom,
    for wireline number portability, the old
    provider for the number is cut out of the picture completely, by
    the requirement for the calling switch to do a database lookup
    for the ported number and route the call directly to the new provider;
    the mechanism of routing the call to the old provider and having the
    old provider forward to the new provider is an obsolete temporary hack.

    I would be VERY surprised if wireless portability used a different,
    kludgy, mechanism.




  11. #11
    Quick
    Guest

    Re: What is the technology behind WLNP?


    "CharlesH" <[email protected]> wrote
    >

    [Snip very good description of work around]

    > I am somewhat confused here. According to the gurus at comp.dcom.telecom,
    > for wireline number portability, the old
    > provider for the number is cut out of the picture completely, by
    > the requirement for the calling switch to do a database lookup
    > for the ported number and route the call directly to the new provider;
    > the mechanism of routing the call to the old provider and having the
    > old provider forward to the new provider is an obsolete temporary hack.


    This would be how 800 numbers have worked for some time now, right?

    -Quick





  12. #12
    Aboutdakota
    Guest

    Re: What is the technology behind WLNP?

    > I am somewhat confused here. According to the gurus at comp.dcom.telecom,
    > for wireline number portability, the old
    > provider for the number is cut out of the picture completely, by
    > the requirement for the calling switch to do a database lookup
    > for the ported number and route the call directly to the new provider;
    > the mechanism of routing the call to the old provider and having the
    > old provider forward to the new provider is an obsolete temporary hack.
    >
    > I would be VERY surprised if wireless portability used a different,
    > kludgy, mechanism.


    I would have to agree. I am sure that at least *part* of the reason
    WLNP was put into effect was the conservation of telephone numbers.
    That would mean that for every number ported, you would be assigned a
    new number that you never use, thus taking up two phone numbers instead
    of one. Because each phone is now occupying two phone numbers, that
    leaves the new phone number that can never be assigned to someone to
    else, and thus it is "wasted".

    I would think that in the near future, new switches will be based on a
    different technology, but it backwards compatible with the current
    system. For example, instead of how current switches determine where to
    route a call based on its number (I think that's how they do it --
    correct me if I am wrong), the new switches will be "virtual" switches,
    thus when a phone number is routed to a switch, it will depend on the
    phone's wiring to the switch how the call is routed, but rather by a
    [centralized] that tells which switch the number is located on.
    Does that make sense to anyone?

    ==AD




  13. #13
    James Hardin
    Guest

    Re: What is the technology behind WLNP?

    I have not worked with WLNP but have worked with LNP. In the
    beginning with LNP we used what we called "RN's" or retained numbers.
    Each RN was paired to one of the customer's telephone numbers. Within
    the provisioning order we would send to the original local phone
    company we would give them this RN to TN matrix. If the loosing phone
    company accepted our port out request,they wouuld update thier local
    routing table to point the traffic on TN's to our RN's. in most case's
    this was transparent to the customer, but confussing to customer
    service because of all the additional phone numbers on the customer's
    record. As the local phone companies with a push from congress,
    migrated to the next phase on LNP, the RN's were replaced with a
    LNP'flag' and an OCN ID reference for each TN. Using high speed
    forward looking SS7 based technology, and the use of nationwide
    'nodes'LNP number assignments and routing is determined in seconds.
    The same basic lookup functionality is first used with toll free
    portability, and later with advanced call routing features. I found
    it interesting that even though the winning phone company gained
    ownership of the specific TN, if the customer wants to port his ported
    TN's from us (facilities based CLEC) to another phone company, we
    would have to port the ported TN's to the ILEC (verizon,SBC,USW,ect)
    and the ILEC would then port the TN's to the new phone company. My
    understanding is this is done because the ILEC still is responsible
    for the specific block of numbers as assigned to them by the specific
    block of TN's origionally assigned to them by the number assignment
    group that handles the assignment of exchanges to local phone
    companies. It sounds like with WLNP, most wireless carriers are using
    one company to have all of the internal processes.


    Isaiah Beard <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > CK wrote:
    >
    > > (I am crossposting this to several wireless groups in hope that I can get a
    > > correct answer)
    > >
    > > I have been trying without luck to find out the technology/process behind
    > > WLNP. I have recently heard that all WLNP does is create somewhat of an
    > > "autoforward" from carrier A to carrier B. If this is correct, it seems
    > > that people who port their number are still at the mercy of their old
    > > carriers and could possibly suffer from degraded service more frequently.

    >
    >
    > Absolutely, they are at the mercy of their old carriers. Despite all
    > the wonderful features that SS7 networks provide that makes everything
    > seem so transparent to us, the end users, the network is still bound by
    > rules that have been in effect since the old wireline network was first
    > started. Namely, exchanges are still bound in some way to a physical
    > location, a switching center that governs a particular exchange. If you
    > port your number, all long distance, wireless, and cell phone companies
    > will still try to route the call through your old wireless company,
    > because that's how the network was designed. Only once the call reaches
    > your old exchange, the switching center says "no, no, the call must be
    > routed here now..." and sends the call along to your new carrier.
    >
    > Porting does not transfer "ownership" of that number to the new company
    > you're with. In fact, if you port, the network STILL sees your new
    > wireless phone as having a different number than the one you're porting.
    > It's kind of like getting a new e-mail address on another ISP, but
    > setting a permanent forward on your old e-mail address. You can modify
    > your "From: header to reflect the old address, and people can still send
    > to the old address and it'll show up in your new inbox, but there's
    > still an underlying new e-mail address where all of your mail is being
    > sent. And if your old mail server goes down, then you will not receive
    > e-mail addressed to it at your new inbox.
    >
    > Likewise, if the switching center at your old cell company gets wiped
    > out, people will not be able to reach you on your new cell phone, even
    > if your current cell company's switching center is up and running.
    >
    >
    > If you get into the field service mode of most new phones, you'll see
    > two numbers. The first is your "MDN" or Mobile Directory Number. This
    > is the number you have ported. The second number is your "MobileID," a
    > 15-digit number (In Sprint's case, anyway) that uniquely identifies your
    > phone to the public network. The MobileID is different from your
    > phone's ESN, and if you have NOT ported your number to another carrier,
    > you'll find that the last 10 digits of your MobileID will match your
    > MDN, or cell phone number. If you HAVE ported your number, then the MDN
    > and MobileID will not match up, and the MobileID will instead have a
    > phone number belonging to the new cell company that is assigned to your
    > cell, but you ever use.
    >
    >
    > > Example: Number 777-111-1111 belongs to an original Nextel customer. That
    > > customer decides that he wants to go to Verizon and submits a WLNP request.
    > > After it goes to the third party and the transfer is complete, he now gets
    > > in incoming call on new providers phone. Since the old number is assigned
    > > by the NPA to original carrier, would it not still go through their switch?

    >
    > Yes, it will.
    >
    >
    > > If this is the case, it seems it would create latency.

    >
    > Yes, it would.
    >
    > It's also going to be interesting to see what happens when (not if, but
    > when):
    >
    > 1. The industry runs into "serial disloyalists" who change their carrier
    > EVERY time their contract expires to in order to get a free shiny new
    > phone each year or two, and continually ports their original number.
    > Will there be communication with the original cell company to change its
    > routing? Or will call to the ported number bounce from the first
    > carrier, to the second carrier, to the third, and so on? I would hope
    > the former, but I wouldn't be surprised if the latter happened, and it
    > would be amusing to see how service would degrade once calls have to go
    > through so many hoops.
    >
    > 2. What happens if you port your number from carrier A to carrier B but
    > then later, carrier B goes bankrupt [email protected] style, liquidates
    > *everything* and just shuts down? Who will administer the ported
    > numbers then? Will someone buying the assets of the old company be
    > required (or if not required, willing) to accept that liability?
    >
    >
    >
    > > Also, what happens
    > > in several years when millions of numbers are ported? Could it not bog down
    > > the PSTN?

    >
    > It probably could. What's more, the way I understand all of this,
    > the new cell phone company must STILL assign you a phone number on their
    > network even if you never intend on using it, because the network must
    > still have some sort of number to forward your calls to. Given the
    > impending scarcity of phone numbers (we're running a little low on area
    > codes in North America), this mess is a bit irksome to someone like me
    > who realize that a lot of perfectly good phone numbers will be occupied
    > by people who will never give out those numbers, never dial them, and
    > neither knows nor could care less that the number is even assigned to them.
    >
    > I have a feeling a lot of these factors have not been truly thought out.
    > But, we will see. Personally, I would still make a clean break from
    > any carrier I'm with if I felt that compelled to have to switch. If I
    > ever switch carriers, then I'm switching phone numbers too. The LNP
    > mess just isn't worth it.




  14. #14
    Stanley Cline
    Guest

    Re: What is the technology behind WLNP?

    On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 10:55:10 -0500, Isaiah Beard
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >started. Namely, exchanges are still bound in some way to a physical
    >location, a switching center that governs a particular exchange. If you
    >port your number, all long distance, wireless, and cell phone companies
    >will still try to route the call through your old wireless company,
    >because that's how the network was designed. Only once the call reaches
    >your old exchange, the switching center says "no, no, the call must be
    >routed here now..." and sends the call along to your new carrier.


    The database dip is done where the call enters the local network --
    the switch handling your wireline or wireless phone if a local call,
    or an LD carrier's switch or possibly a local phone company tandem if
    an LD call -- not at the switch of the carrier that "owns" the NPA-NXX
    or thousands block the number is associated with.

    I just ported a number (404-391-****) from Nextel to T-Mobile today.
    (Yes, really, I did!) Here's what happens when I call my old number:

    - When I dial my number from my landline at home, the 5ESS switch
    that provides my landline dial tone sees (thanks to data input from
    the LERG and other sources) that 404-391 is a portable NPA-NXX, and
    queries the Southeastern regional NPAC database via SS7 to see if
    the number is ported or not.
    - The NPAC database tells the 5E that I ported the number to T-Mobile,
    and returns a LRN (local routing number) in a T-Mo NPA-NXX (say,
    404-786-**** -- I have no idea what their LRN actually is) for the
    5E to use to route the call.
    - The 5E sends an SS7 call setup message to T-Mo's switch based on the
    LRN and standard NPA-NXX-based call routing; T-Mo's switch sees the
    dialed number (404-391-****) in the SS7 message, and passes the call
    setup request to T-Mo's HLR (I am not roaming at home, so no VLR is
    involved; if I were the usual HLR<->VLR communications would occur.)
    The HLR looks up the IMSI associated with my number, gives the
    switch the OK to send the call to my phone (actually SIM); the
    switch routes the call to a BTS controller, to a backhaul T1
    (wireline or microwave), to a BTS radio, to my Sidekick.

    ***Definitions for non-telco people:

    - LERG: Local Exchange Routing Guide, a collection of databases that
    provide detailed network information for carriers
    - NPA-NXX: Area code + prefix (e.g., for 311-555-2368, the NPA-NXX is
    311-555)
    - LRN: Local routing number, a "fake" number used for routing calls
    to ported numbers
    - SS7: Signaling System 7, a protocol telecom switches use to talk to
    one another
    - HLR: Home Location Register - stores network settings for customers
    of a carrier
    - VLR: Visitor Location Register - stores network settings for
    customers roaming on a carrier
    - IMSI: unique ID associated with a given GSM or iDEN SIM (as opposed
    to IMEI = a phone's unique ID)
    - BTS: Base Transceiver Station = cell site

    >Porting does not transfer "ownership" of that number to the new company
    >you're with. In fact, if you port, the network STILL sees your new
    >wireless phone as having a different number than the one you're porting.


    For CDMA and IS-136 (and AMPS), this is true, mainly because ANSI-41
    ties nearly everything to a phone number along with ESN, and having
    (for example) Cingular customers in a VZW NPA-NXX makes an utter mess
    of handling roaming, billing, etc. In fact, many older phones cannot
    be used with ported numbers (either without firmware upgrades, or at
    all) because they can't handle split MIN/MDNs and can't properly
    authenticate to the network. This is one reason, aside from roaming
    cost issues and E911 requirements, that some analog-only carriers are
    selling digital phones before actually running digital -- they can't
    easily comply with WLNP otherwise! (I think some newer analog-only
    phones may in fact do split MIN/MDN, but I haven't seen a "new"
    analog-only phone in years.)

    In GSM and iDEN, OTOH, which use MAP (or variants thereof) and not
    ANSI-41, handsets are authenticated and roaming validated by IMSIs and
    not phone numbers (the links between IMSI and phone number exist
    solely as "lookups" in HLRs and VLRs), so ported numbers can be
    handled by GSM and iDEN carriers much more cleanly. Basically, the
    MIN/MDN split in ANSI-41 networks provides IMSI-type functionality.

    > It's kind of like getting a new e-mail address on another ISP, but
    >setting a permanent forward on your old e-mail address. You can modify


    This amounts to nothing more than a remote call forward, and is NOT
    used in LNP (wireline or wireless) anymore except in very isolated
    circumstances.

    >Will there be communication with the original cell company to change its
    >routing? Or will call to the ported number bounce from the first
    >carrier, to the second carrier, to the third, and so on? I would hope


    It doesn't matter...see above.

    I work with wireline numbers the company I work for has ported three
    and four times and the call always goes straight to the switch of the
    carrier providing service to the number -- there is no chain of call
    forwards.

    >2. What happens if you port your number from carrier A to carrier B but
    >then later, carrier B goes bankrupt [email protected] style, liquidates
    >*everything* and just shuts down? Who will administer the ported
    >numbers then? Will someone buying the assets of the old company be
    >required (or if not required, willing) to accept that liability?


    The same as with wireline carriers: proper notice to customers of an
    impending shutdown would be required so that customers could port
    their numbers elsewhere.

    FWIW, I can count the number of wireless carriers that have actually
    shut down their network on one finger -- Carolina Phone in South
    Carolina, which shut down their network and sold their spectrum in a
    three-way split to SunCom, VZW, and T-Mo (CP's bean counters figured
    they could get more money from selling licenses than selling service)
    is the only one I know of that has.

    -SC
    --
    Stanley Cline -- sc1 at roamer1 dot org -- http://www.roamer1.org/
    ....
    "Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might
    be a law against it by that time." -/usr/games/fortune



  15. #15
    CharlesH
    Guest

    Re: What is the technology behind WLNP?

    Did some research into MDN/MIN

    MDN = Mobile Directory Number = your dialable phone number - what you port
    MIN = Mobile Identification Number = identifies your carrier and your phone

    Until WLNP, MDN and MIN were the same. In fact, older phones did not
    even have separate MIN and MDN registers. With WLNP, when you port,
    your new carrier assigns a new MIN which is put into your phone. You
    keep the same MDN. The carrier can be identified by a simple lookup
    of the MIN (say, first six digits). Note that with WLNP, there is no
    longer any requirement that the MIN look anything like a "real" phone
    number. It could begin with zero, or look like some non-wireless
    exchange, whatever. Thus the MIN need not contribute to "number
    exhaustion" (running out of numbers).

    Much of the expense of WLNP for the wireless companies has been
    separating uses the MIN from the MDN in their systems, being very
    sure to use the right one in the right context. For example,
    the wireless providers used to send the MIN to the 911 emergency
    center; now, they have to be sure to send the MDN. Caller ID shows
    the MDN. The MIN is used between the roaming and home system.
    And older phones which do not have separate MDN and MIN
    registers cannot be ported; although since you probably have to get
    a new phone anyway which works with the new provider's technology, that
    is probably not much of an issue.

    The MIN is only used inside the wireless network; the MDN is used when
    talking to the PSTN (landline phone system). When a ported number is
    called from a landline phone it is routed directly to the new provider,
    like any ported landline number. Recall that the number could have
    originally been associated with a landline provider, not just between
    wireless providers. The wireless provider then looks up the MIN
    from the MDN in its database, and routes the call to your phone.

    As mentioned in another post, GSM systems use something called the
    IMSI in a role comparable to the MIN.




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