Sprint Free&Clear America vs. VZW National Single-Rate

"Frank McGirt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:111220031005283626%[email protected]...
> NSR plan after we encountered several areas in eastern OK and northern
> MS and AL that dumped us to the American Roaming Network at $3/min when
>
> we tried to make a call. This happened on my wife's and son's Sprint
> phones as well so it was not a phone thing. This together with the

Was this automatic roaming (just dial the destination number) or manual
roaming (through an operator or by entering a credit card number)?

---

› See More: Sprint Free&Clear America vs. VZW National Single-Rate

In article <[email protected]>,
Lawrence G. Mayka <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Frank McGirt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:111220031005283626%[email protected]...
> > NSR plan after we encountered several areas in eastern OK and northern
> > MS and AL that dumped us to the American Roaming Network at $3/min when
> >
> > we tried to make a call. This happened on my wife's and son's Sprint
> > phones as well so it was not a phone thing. This together with the
>
> Was this automatic roaming (just dial the destination number) or manual
> roaming (through an operator or by entering a credit card number)?
>
>

After dialing the number we would get the "Welcome to ARN, please enter
your calling card or credit card number" message. The local provider
was Alltel Wireless who is part of "Verizon Extended Network" according
to the banner on our phones. As I said before, the issue was still
unresolved right up to when we dropped Sprint in favor of Verizon. And
neither Sprint nor Alltel could help.

If we went a few miles south nearer to I-40, we got a nice Sprint
signal (so that is how we had to make outgoing calls) while there is no
native Verizon service east of OKC until one gets almost to Little
Rock, AR. Kind of ironic that the local Sprint service was so bad that
we had to change to a carrier that isn't even native to the area to get
decent service. We could have changed to Alltel but that wasn't too
highly rated in our home area of NM. Verizon was the best choice for
the widest area that we are frequently in.

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:16:13 -0600, "Thomas T. Veldhouse"
<[email protected]> chose to add this to the great equation of life, the
universe, and everything:

>"Bob Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:J%%[email protected]...
>>
>> "T. Loso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
<snip -- name kept just to indicate who we're talking about>

>> You might try fixing your time on your computer. Your reply showed up with
>a
>> time date of 12-31-03 @ 1:09 AM.
>
>I think that is likely a problem with your news server and not his client.
>Hist post showed up for me just fine with the time as 12-11-2003 @ 12:09 AM.

It appears on my computer as 12/31/2003, 12:09 AM.

Here are some of the headers from the post in question:

>NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 00:12:10 -0600
>From: "T. Loso" <[email protected]>
>Newsgroups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.sprintpcs
>Subject: Re: Sprint Free&Clear America vs. VZW National Single-Rate
>Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 01:09:20 -0500
>X-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 06:12:11 GMT (bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net)

My interpretation is that his computer is set incorrectly and inserted its
time/date into the post, which Bob's and my newsreaders displayed, but your
newsreader displayed the NNTP-Posting-Date or your server's X-Received-Date
instead.

-
David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
"Justice is incidental to law and order." - J. Edgar Hoover

In alt.cellular.sprintpcs Frank McGirt <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Lawrence G. Mayka <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "Frank McGirt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:111220031005283626%[email protected]...
>> > NSR plan after we encountered several areas in eastern OK and northern
>> > MS and AL that dumped us to the American Roaming Network at $3/min when
>> >
>> > we tried to make a call. This happened on my wife's and son's Sprint
>> > phones as well so it was not a phone thing. This together with the
>>
>> Was this automatic roaming (just dial the destination number) or manual
>> roaming (through an operator or by entering a credit card number)?
>>
>>
>
> After dialing the number we would get the "Welcome to ARN, please enter
> your calling card or credit card number" message. The local provider
> was Alltel Wireless who is part of "Verizon Extended Network" according
> to the banner on our phones. As I said before, the issue was still
> unresolved right up to when we dropped Sprint in favor of Verizon. And
> neither Sprint nor Alltel could help.

Sounds like Sprint didn't have any roaming agreements with carriers in that
area (obviously Verizon did - Verizon and Alltel inked a very sweet roaming
agreement a few years ago).

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
Steve Sobol, Proprietor
888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * [email protected]

In article <[email protected]>, Steven J Sobol
<[email protected]> wrote:

> In alt.cellular.sprintpcs Frank McGirt <[email protected]> wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Lawrence G. Mayka <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> "Frank McGirt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:111220031005283626%[email protected]...
> >> > NSR plan after we encountered several areas in eastern OK and northern
> >> > MS and AL that dumped us to the American Roaming Network at $3/min when
> >> >
> >> > we tried to make a call. This happened on my wife's and son's Sprint
> >> > phones as well so it was not a phone thing. This together with the
> >>
> >> Was this automatic roaming (just dial the destination number) or manual
> >> roaming (through an operator or by entering a credit card number)?
> >>
> >>
> >
> > After dialing the number we would get the "Welcome to ARN, please enter
> > your calling card or credit card number" message. The local provider
> > was Alltel Wireless who is part of "Verizon Extended Network" according
> > to the banner on our phones. As I said before, the issue was still
> > unresolved right up to when we dropped Sprint in favor of Verizon. And
> > neither Sprint nor Alltel could help.
>
> Sounds like Sprint didn't have any roaming agreements with carriers in that
> area (obviously Verizon did - Verizon and Alltel inked a very sweet roaming
> agreement a few years ago).

Yes, that was my conclusion too - but for some reason both Sprint and
Alltel claimed otherwise so I don't know. What I do know is that I
got very tired and frustrated with trying to solve a problem that
seemed to be of interest to no one but me. Hence the move to VZW.
And I guess it was just dumb good luck for us that VZW and Alltel are
service partners with a good roaming agreement between them.

It has also really paid off in southeastern NC when we travel there as
it is mostly Alltel there with native VZW starting about 20 miles west
of us so we either have VZW or Extended VZW everywhere around there.
Very nice!

"Lawrence G. Mayka" <[email protected]> wrote:

>"Mark Tetrault" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Me too until the bills came rolling in for roaming. I was so mad that
>> they lied to my face, that I sold the phone, took a loss, and went with
>> Verizon NSR plan.
>
>Are you asserting that you were subscribed to F&CA (the new $5/mo option on
>top of F&C plans), and yet Sprint charged you for long-distance (on ordinary
>roaming calls, which are supposed to be covered by F&CA)?
>
>This is very significant if true. There is a continuing debate in other
>forums on this issue. Sprint's Web site appears to say that F&CA
>subscribers *will* nevertheless be charged for long-distance, but various
>customers (and, I think, Sprint employees) say otherwise.
>
I'm saying that my 1st cel phone was with Sprint. I very carefully asked
over and over if the paln they were trying to sell me had NO roaming and
NO LD charges ANYWHERE in the US and they so that was correct. Their
brochure even said that!!!

When I got in a non Sprint network area and made a call two months later
I got billed LD and Roaming. When I complained they told me that I was
"off Network". I reminded them that I what I was told/sold. They said it
musta been a mistake as they do not offer NO LD and Roaming "off" their
network.

I was livid and stuck with that bunch of liars for a year. And where I
travel, I was saddled with LD and roam charges for a year. One year to
the day I sold that **** phone for a loss and went with Verizon NSR 150
and never looked back.

Is Verizon perfect? NO, but they are heads and shoulders above the rest.
I have NSR 400 with Canada and network MOU and NEVER pay LD, roaming, or
network charges. Great coverage, 2000 free weekend minutes. Life is
good. Even during my recent vacation to the deserts of AZ, NO LD or
Roaming.

Sprint SUX!

Mark

"Frank McGirt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:131220032208252831%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Steven J Sobol
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Sounds like Sprint didn't have any roaming agreements with carriers in
that
> > area (obviously Verizon did - Verizon and Alltel inked a very sweet
roaming
> > agreement a few years ago).
>
> Yes, that was my conclusion too - but for some reason both Sprint and
> Alltel claimed otherwise so I don't know. What I do know is that I

It is certainly very disturbing if Sprint claims to have a roaming agreement
with Alltel but is not interested in actually making it work. This appears
to be yet another case that exemplifies Sprint's lack of a reliable customer
complaint escalation mechanism. You reported a serious bug but were never
able to get anyone at Sprint to care.

Does Sprint claim to be ISO-compliant? Would it help to file a complaint
with ISO--not just about the roaming issue itself, but about Sprint's lack
of a reliable process for fixing serious customer-reported problems?

In article <wb%[email protected]>,
Lawrence G. Mayka <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Frank McGirt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:131220032208252831%[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>, Steven J Sobol
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Sounds like Sprint didn't have any roaming agreements with carriers in
> that
> > > area (obviously Verizon did - Verizon and Alltel inked a very sweet
> roaming
> > > agreement a few years ago).
> >
> > Yes, that was my conclusion too - but for some reason both Sprint and
> > Alltel claimed otherwise so I don't know. What I do know is that I
>
> It is certainly very disturbing if Sprint claims to have a roaming agreement
> with Alltel but is not interested in actually making it work. This appears
> to be yet another case that exemplifies Sprint's lack of a reliable customer
> complaint escalation mechanism. You reported a serious bug but were never
> able to get anyone at Sprint to care.
>
> Does Sprint claim to be ISO-compliant? Would it help to file a complaint
> with ISO--not just about the roaming issue itself, but about Sprint's lack
> of a reliable process for fixing serious customer-reported problems?
>
>

I expect on paper at least that Sprint is compliant but it will have to
be someone else to follow up on that. I essentially washed my hands of
them went we changed to VZW. And it wasn't something I really wanted
to do because I liked their phones and when we could get on their
network, the reception was always very good. But with the ARN
problem, dealing with the local CS store people, and then the Vision
Web site problems I figured enough was enough. If someone would have
paid attention to our problems that would have made a real difference
in my attitude - but they didn't - when I would call to check on the
progress they would just file another report. One tech told me they
got sent to Kansas City and would be worked on there. Bet they got
round filed because I never got any feedback from any of them.

Oh well, I expect others have equally bad or worse stories about VZW,
ATT and the rest. I really think the lesson is to pick the provider
that gives you the best reception in your area and hopefully they will
be the ones that also provide the best service. If not, go shopping
and use the 15-day trial periods. I did that with VZW, VoiceStream,
Nextel, and Alltel in my home area before deciding on VZW. It was a
hassle but well worth it.

Thanks for all the responses. I didn't meant to go into this much
detail and originally just wanted to point out why I went with VZW NSR
instead of Sprint F&C.

Originally Posted by Steven J Sobol

alt.cellular.sprintpcs added for those SPCS denizens who want to add
comments.

cathy <[email protected]> wrote:
> Sprint has an add-on to their regular plans called Free and Clear
> America (I think that's what it's called). For $5 a month, what it
> does is eliminate roaming charges. Anywhere you can get a signal,
> analog or digital, whosever system it is, you won't pay roaming
> charges (kinda like National Single Rate).

Yes. It's F&CA. Your roaming airtime usage must total less than 50% of
your total airtime usage. I thought it was $10 per month, but still, you
understand the basic idea.

> Does Verizon have anything like this to go with their America's Choice
> plans? The reason I've never switched from NSR to AC is because of the
> roaming charges. The one thing I NEVER want to see on my bill are
> roaming charges. NSR takes care of that, but the plan I have now is
> rather limited.

No - for no roaming ever, you'd need NSR. Here's the deal: You have the
preferred-network plans (Sprint Free & Clear, Cingular Preferred, Alltel
National Freedom, AT&T National Network, Verizon America's Choice) that offer
no roaming on the carrier's networks nationwide, as well as selected networks
operated by competitors that the carrier's negotiated good roaming deals with.

Sprint's Free & Clear was the first such plan, although it only allows roam-
free usage on Sprint's own network. Everyone else came up with the preferred-
network plans to compete with Sprint.

Then you have the true no-roaming plans (Sprint Free & Clear America,
Cingular Nation, Alltel Total Freedom, AT&T Digital One-Rate, Verizon NSR).
AT&T was the first to market with this type of plan about four years ago,
maybe five. Everyone eventually introduced a Digital One-Rate clone.

Except Sprint.

The whole point of the preferred-network plans is since you can only roam for
free on *specific* carriers with which your carrier has negotiated good rates,
it's cheaper for them to allow you to roam and therefore they can offer lower
prices on the plans.

Sprint offers the F&CA add-on, but none of the other big guys need to. They
already *have* the no-roaming-anywhere plans.

> The promotional minutes (got the plan about 4 years
> ago) are only for weekends, no nighttime at all. I'm tired of having
> my calling time so limited, and I've contemplating switching to
> Sprint. I travel a lot and need that no-roaming capability.

> But before I do that I want to see if Verizon has anything/will do
> anything to match Sprint's plan.

#1: They won't. If you shop for your cell carrier based primarily on
price, and you chose Verizon, you chose the wrong carrier. Verizon hasn't
ever and will not ever market themselves as a low-price carrier. That's not
their thing. And since they can potentially have to pay for significant
amounts of roaming for which *they can't bill you*, they're not likely to
give much away for free and cost themselves more money.

#2: Travel a lot? If, over the course of a few months, Sprint PCS detects
that (on average) you're spending more than 50% of your airtime roaming, they
reserve the right to take you off the plan.

I suppose Cingular might be a better choice for you, but I honestly don't
know anything about their network or customer service; I've never used them,
and I will never use them because they are partially owned by a telephone
company that I have had significant problems with.

But if you're expecting lots of free minutes on any of the *true* nationwide
plans, you'll probably be disappointed. And you will definitely need to check
coverage maps; companies that offer the freebies, like AT&T on their GSM
"Next Generation" network, don't always offer good coverage. In particular,
AT&T's legacy TDMA network is much, MUCH larger; a sales rep for an AT&T
authorized agent at the local mall even told me, recently, to stay away from
the GSM network because the older network has much more coverage. (Note:
AT&T Digital One-Rate *is* offered on the older network, but you're not
likely to be able to get most of the promos that are offered on the Next
Generation network.) And AT&T is having to deal with some major issues
anyhow.

I'd suggest doing some research on some of the other carriers. If you're
not happy with Verizon, you should switch, but for *your* specific purposes,
I don't know that Sprint would be the right choice for you.

Hope this helps. I'd hate to see you make a decision that ends up hurting you
in the long run.

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services
22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
Steve Sobol, Proprietor
888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * [email protected]

I have T730c but I don't have the verizon service. Is it possible that I can have sprint service on this phone

"aminpalla" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<snipped>
> I have T730c but I don't have the verizon service. Is it possible that
> I can have sprint service on this phone

Nope. Sprint will not initiate any plans on phones that are sold & branded
for any network other than theirs.

As for the comments Steven made (which I snipped out) with regards to
roaming over 50% of the plan minutes and the potential of having the account
cancelled, I have one question. When have we heard from anyone in a.c.s., to
where their account was cancelled for continued roaming usage of over 50% of
the time?

I could be wrong, but I don't believe we have.

Bob

Bob Smith wrote:
>
> "aminpalla" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> <snipped>
> > I have T730c but I don't have the verizon service. Is it possible that
> > I can have sprint service on this phone
>
> Nope. Sprint will not initiate any plans on phones that are sold & branded
> for any network other than theirs.
>
> As for the comments Steven made (which I snipped out) with regards to
> roaming over 50% of the plan minutes and the potential of having the account
> cancelled, I have one question. When have we heard from anyone in a.c.s., to
> where their account was cancelled for continued roaming usage of over 50% of
> the time?
>
> I could be wrong, but I don't believe we have.

I don't think we have.

In fact, if I recall correctly (and, these days, it's questionable! <g>),
a number of posters have said they *have* gone past the 50% mark, with no
negative ramifications.

Notan

Notan wrote:
> Bob Smith wrote:
>>
>> "aminpalla" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> message news:[email protected]...
>> <snipped>
>>> I have T730c but I don't have the verizon service. Is it possible
>>> that
>>> I can have sprint service on this phone
>>
>> Nope. Sprint will not initiate any plans on phones that are sold &
>> branded for any network other than theirs.
>>
>> As for the comments Steven made (which I snipped out) with regards to
>> roaming over 50% of the plan minutes and the potential of having the
>> account cancelled, I have one question. When have we heard from
>> anyone in a.c.s., to where their account was cancelled for continued
>> roaming usage of over 50% of the time?
>>
>> I could be wrong, but I don't believe we have.
>
> I don't think we have.
>
> In fact, if I recall correctly (and, these days, it's questionable!
> <g>),
> a number of posters have said they *have* gone past the 50% mark,
> with no negative ramifications.
>

To be fair, or just for clarification, "aminpalla" responded to
something Steve wrote more than TWO-YEARS-AGO! Talk about archeology...

Today, I don't believe you have to add anything when signing up with
Sprint to get roaming: it's even included in the cheapest Fair &
Flexible plan (as well as family plans).

The place I don't see it included is the free incoming plans, that seem
more Nextel-related (e.g., they include free Ready Link).


--
Mike