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  1. #1
    Larry Levitan
    Guest
    Someone wrote:
    >
    > I'm in Seattle and have been using Verizon's service for about
    > eight years (analog service). The service and the phone have
    > their shortcomings, so I'm looking at getting something more
    > contemporary.
    >
    > I don't care about text messaging or cameras, just a phone with
    > voice mail. And it won't be used overseas, only in the local area.
    >
    > What kept me from upgrading earlier was the horrible quality
    > of "digital" service -- tinny sound, delay (like talking to someone
    > on a satellite phone from Baghdad, waiting a second or two for
    > a reply in a conversation), and general distortion.
    >
    > It looks like GSM has overcome these problems. Is that right?
    > Some friends with new phones sound almost like wireline connections
    > when I talk to them on their cell phones.
    >
    > Also, it looks like Verizon doesn't offer GSM domestically. Cingular
    > has such offerings, but seem rather inept when it comes to selling or
    > setting up a new phone. (I gave up with them because they were unable
    > to activate a phone after two days.)
    >
    > So what is the general consensus here? Is GSM the way to go for
    > the type of service I'm looking for? Or is CDMA or another type
    > equally as good? What about providers? Is Cingular the same company
    > as any of the others (like T-Mobile) that I feel like avoiding because of
    > my experience with them?
    >
    > Anyway, any input is appreciated.
    > Thanks!


    Did you know verizon is still the number rated carrier?

    Did you know T-Mobile is the worst rated carrier?

    Do you know which phone is rated the best?

    If you really want to know which carrier is the best rated,
    has the least amount of dropped calls, and look at an overview
    of the service plans, buy the current edition of Consumer Reports.
    They conducted a protracted investigation (about 12 pages) of
    all the major carriers -- in various cities. You'll be surprised!

    Has anyone else seen this edition?

    -Larry



    See More: Consumer Reports (was:Current state of cellular?




  2. #2
    Scott
    Guest

    Re: Consumer Reports (was:Current state of cellular?

    First, take Consumer Reports recommendations with a grain of salt. Sure
    they do provide a service, but when it comes to high tech stuff I think
    their analysis usually falls short.

    OK, the topic of CDMA versus GSM has been discussed before. Do a google
    search and you'll find lots of articles comapring the technologies. Both
    technologies have their pluses and minuses.

    As far as call quality is concerned, you'll find more variations between
    handsets than you will between technologies themelves. One aspect of CDMA I
    prefer is th soft handoff when switching towers. On GSM you can often
    detect a short blip in the sound when changing from tower to tower. Plus
    GSM will more easily drop a call while doing a tower handoff than CDMA
    (though the newer networks rarely drop calls unless the tower is out of
    capacity at that given moment). CDMA handoffs are silent and the network is
    far mre intelligent when negotiating handoffs.

    I've found, and there's technical support to the claim that CDMA phones are
    more likely to connect to the tower during low signal strength (like 1 bar
    or no bars on your phone). This has been documented and is very helpful
    since pretty much all of the 1.9Ghz PCS networks are so low power now that
    building penetration is not as good as it was in the days of 6/10W digital
    or analog cellular.

    GSM uses SIM cards while CDMA does not. I like SIM cards and wish this type
    of technology would be standardized and supported by CDMA as well. on some
    GSM phones yuc an remvoe the SIM card and install it in a new phone and not
    only be up and running in seconds but also have your phonebook, etc. follow
    too. Very slick. Do keep in mind that the phonebook and personal settings
    following you does not always work due to some manufacturers implementing
    the technology differently. With CDMA when youg et a new phone you are at
    the mercy of the carrier to transfer your phonebook (if they can) or some
    software to try to help you to do it (which often does not work).....

    GSM has worldwide acceptance whereas CDMA does not. CDMA is in Korea,
    Japan, China and a few othr countries but some of those systems are
    completely different than ours and you won't be able to roam there using a
    US CDMA phone. With GSM, provided you get a world phone will permit you to
    roam just about anywhere there's GSM service.

    Verizon Wireless is 50% owned by Vodaphone and later in 2004 will be
    releasing a dual CDMA/GSM phone. The GSM portion will not support use in
    the US, but will permit US CDMA users to have service all over the world.
    Expect this phone to be expensive initially due to mostly business users
    being the early adopters.

    Right now Verizon leads the way in fast data speeds due to CDMA having the
    easiest path to poviding full 3G data speeds. Verizon already has high
    speed internet connectivity running in Washington DC and San Diego and is
    planing to deploy additional cities in 2004. This is a real winner for road
    warriors. No one can touch Verizons 1X EV DO speeds. AT&T has just
    released EDGE over GSM but its only about 30% faster than Verizons 1XRTT
    which has been available for well over a year now. Plus AT&T is having
    serious growing and deployment pains with their GSM network. Not to mention
    horrible CS.

    So, to sum it up.....If you are primarilty interested in service in th US
    and want the very best network (in most cases) I'd go with Verizon. Their
    technology path looks the most solid of all th carriers right now and into
    the near future.

    Sprint is the other nationwide CDMA carrier. Sprint reliability is city
    dependent. Some citis are OK, others are horrible. Plus it takes Sprint
    forever to fix problems, even obvious ones in large cities that cause drops
    on main thoroughfares. Sprint also has 1XRTT data, but I've heard no plans
    about them deploying 1X EV DO, althouht I'm sure they will eventually.

    Cingular is a partnership between Bellsouth and SBC (Southwestern Bell).
    I'm not a fan. They are in the process of switching their network over the
    GSM. Some cities are done, others are still TDMA. Its a bit of a mess if
    you are a nationwide traveler.

    Tmobile is probably the best of the GSM carriers in the US. While they do
    have similar network issues to Sprint, I'd say they are better and are mroe
    proactive in improving their network. Some people claim TMobile's CS is
    also horrible. Their prices are the best, no one can touch them!! If
    TMobile is good in your city and you don't travel much, they are an
    excellent choice. Tmobile is behind in the data speed wars. They still
    only support GPRS which is about 30% slower than Verizons 1XRTT.

    There you go. A quick lesson in mobile technoligies and your options.

    Oh, and phones......if you jsut want a great phone and don't need tons of
    toyslike cameras, etc... Then buy Motorola. If you insist on toys I'd
    recommend Nokia on GSM. Sanyo, LG, Samsung and Audiovox all make good CDMA
    phones, but none are super sturdy so beware if you drop them!!

    "Larry Levitan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Someone wrote:
    > >
    > > I'm in Seattle and have been using Verizon's service for about
    > > eight years (analog service). The service and the phone have
    > > their shortcomings, so I'm looking at getting something more
    > > contemporary.
    > >
    > > I don't care about text messaging or cameras, just a phone with
    > > voice mail. And it won't be used overseas, only in the local area.
    > >
    > > What kept me from upgrading earlier was the horrible quality
    > > of "digital" service -- tinny sound, delay (like talking to someone
    > > on a satellite phone from Baghdad, waiting a second or two for
    > > a reply in a conversation), and general distortion.
    > >
    > > It looks like GSM has overcome these problems. Is that right?
    > > Some friends with new phones sound almost like wireline connections
    > > when I talk to them on their cell phones.
    > >
    > > Also, it looks like Verizon doesn't offer GSM domestically. Cingular
    > > has such offerings, but seem rather inept when it comes to selling or
    > > setting up a new phone. (I gave up with them because they were unable
    > > to activate a phone after two days.)
    > >
    > > So what is the general consensus here? Is GSM the way to go for
    > > the type of service I'm looking for? Or is CDMA or another type
    > > equally as good? What about providers? Is Cingular the same company
    > > as any of the others (like T-Mobile) that I feel like avoiding because

    of
    > > my experience with them?
    > >
    > > Anyway, any input is appreciated.
    > > Thanks!

    >
    > Did you know verizon is still the number rated carrier?
    >
    > Did you know T-Mobile is the worst rated carrier?
    >
    > Do you know which phone is rated the best?
    >
    > If you really want to know which carrier is the best rated,
    > has the least amount of dropped calls, and look at an overview
    > of the service plans, buy the current edition of Consumer Reports.
    > They conducted a protracted investigation (about 12 pages) of
    > all the major carriers -- in various cities. You'll be surprised!
    >
    > Has anyone else seen this edition?
    >
    > -Larry






  3. #3
    Real Estate Agent
    Guest

    Re: Consumer Reports (was:Current state of cellular?


    > Someone wrote:
    > >
    > > I'm in Seattle and have been using Verizon's service for about
    > > eight years (analog service). The service and the phone have
    > > their shortcomings, so I'm looking at getting something more
    > > contemporary.


    I recommend that you stick with one of the two companies in your market
    which offered Analog service in the early days of cellular phones. (You know
    one of them is Verizon, and I suspect there is another one--but not more
    than two per market.)

    The reasoning is that these companies have an eight to ten year "jump" on
    the other carriers regarding tower placement. In my market (NC), the two
    original carriers were Verizon and Alltel. They upfitted the early towers to
    include digital service (in addition to analog). And although they are not
    adding analog sites, they have put in a large number of digital sites.
    Altogether, this adds up to extremely good signals when using a digital
    phone.

    I converted my Verizon account to digital about three years ago and I am
    very pleased. Four months ago, I converted my Alltel accounts to tri-mode
    phones and the results were astounding.

    I have parallel service with a Motorola "Brick" with an outside antenna, and
    a Bag Phone. The tri-mode phones (a T720 and V60) equal or exceed the more
    powerful analog equipment in 95% of the places I go. The rare exception is
    in the mountains of North Carolina, and a few remote places along the coast.
    So unless you make a lot of calls from the bases of lighthouses on barrier
    islands, I predict you will be very pleased with the new phone, provided you
    keep it on either the A or B carrier.

    In our market, the "newbies" like ATT, Sprint, Cingular, T-mobile still are
    playing catch-up on coverage, and folks grumble about the coverage. When you
    are in a metro area, they do pretty well. But they still don't have the
    tower saturation of the original guys. And at the moment, nobody is meeting
    Alltel's 1,000 anytime minute package for $39.95! Verizon is a close second
    with 800. That's the other factor that keeps me on the A and B systems!

    By the way, the Brick and Bag Phones will continue to remain activated. Hey!
    You NEVER know when you'll need them! (grin)

    -Paul-
    __________________________________
    There is an area north of Asheville where a
    bag phone with outside antenna is the ONLY
    way you're gonna talk!
    __________________________________






  4. #4
    Dave C.
    Guest

    Re: Consumer Reports (was:Current state of cellular?


    "Scott" <//[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > First, take Consumer Reports recommendations with a grain of salt.


    Actually, CR rates Nextel highest for lack of connection problems. THAT
    alone tells me CR is full of ****. Also, they rate Nextel as having the
    lowest turnover rate, but they don't break that down into (single consumer)
    turnover rate vs. (business use) turnover rate. Businesses LOVE Nextel for
    the PTT feature, which means nothing if you are only ordering one or two
    phones at a time. So I'd bet the non-business churn rate of Nextel is much
    higher than any other provider. Quite simply, their coverage sucks. It's
    not the phones, it's the network. Many areas, you will have no signal with
    Nextel. But the really sad part is, even if you have a strong Nextel
    signal, half the time you STILL won't be able to make or receive phone
    calls, and it's not the phones . . . it's the network. I have tried EVERY
    major provider rated by CR . . . every one of them. Nextel is not only the
    worst, but it's not even close. If the other providers were 1,2,3,4,5 and
    6, Nextel would rate number 23 with nobody else in the running. Verizon
    wireless has the next lowest turnover rate, according to CR. Verizon also
    is rated for few connection problems. That seems to be about the only thing
    the CR report got RIGHT. Verizon is indeed a good service (though wicked
    expensive compared to all of their competitors). It doesn't surprise me to
    see that Verizon has a low turnover rate, and a recommendation from CR.

    CR recommends in this order:
    Verizon
    Nextel
    Qwest (but only in Denver)

    That right there tells me you should take CR's recommendations with a HUGE
    grain of salt. I feel sorry for the people who get locked into a Nextel
    contract based on CR's recommendation. -Dave





  5. #5
    Joseph
    Guest

    Re: Consumer Reports (was:Current state of cellular?

    On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 21:58:34 -0500, Larry Levitan
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Did you know verizon is still the number rated carrier?
    >
    >Did you know T-Mobile is the worst rated carrier?
    >
    >Do you know which phone is rated the best?
    >
    >If you really want to know which carrier is the best rated,
    >has the least amount of dropped calls, and look at an overview
    >of the service plans, buy the current edition of Consumer Reports.
    >They conducted a protracted investigation (about 12 pages) of
    >all the major carriers -- in various cities. You'll be surprised!


    How about something to verify your claims?

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    remove NO from .NOcom to reply



  6. #6
    Joseph
    Guest

    Re: Consumer Reports (was:Current state of cellular?

    On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 22:57:20 -0500, "Scott" <//[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >GSM uses SIM cards while CDMA does not. I like SIM cards and wish this type
    >of technology would be standardized and supported by CDMA as well. on some
    >GSM phones yuc an remvoe the SIM card and install it in a new phone and not
    >only be up and running in seconds but also have your phonebook, etc. follow
    >too. Very slick. Do keep in mind that the phonebook and personal settings
    >following you does not always work due to some manufacturers implementing
    >the technology differently.


    If you have your phone book entries stored in the SIM card it will be
    the same on *any* GSM phone. The difference may come if you store your
    phonebook entries in the *phone* rather than on the SIM card. Of
    course entries stored in one phone won't be on another phone. The
    technology is implemented absolutely the same in each phone. The
    difference is whether phone memory or SIM memory is used.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    remove NO from .NOcom to reply



  7. #7
    Thomas T. Veldhouse
    Guest

    Re: Consumer Reports (was:Current state of cellular?

    On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 07:36:44 -0800, Joseph <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 21:58:34 -0500, Larry Levitan
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>Did you know verizon is still the number rated carrier?
    >>
    >>Did you know T-Mobile is the worst rated carrier?
    >>
    >>Do you know which phone is rated the best?
    >>
    >>If you really want to know which carrier is the best rated,
    >>has the least amount of dropped calls, and look at an overview
    >>of the service plans, buy the current edition of Consumer Reports.
    >>They conducted a protracted investigation (about 12 pages) of
    >>all the major carriers -- in various cities. You'll be surprised!

    >
    >How about something to verify your claims?
    >
    >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    > remove NO from .NOcom to reply



    Uhm .. he did verify his claims. He said there was about a 12 page
    spread in Consumer Reports which says what he posted. Go look and
    report back if it is inaccurate.


    Tom Veldhouse



  8. #8
    RexYBlue
    Guest

    Re: Consumer Reports (was:Current state of cellular?

    On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 22:57:20 -0500, "Scott" <//[email protected]>
    wrote:
    >First, take Consumer Reports recommendations with a grain of salt. Sure
    >they do provide a service, but when it comes to high tech stuff I think
    >their analysis usually falls short.


    Hear hear!! Their "extensive" testing usually isn't. CR's claim to
    fame is that they don't accept advertising, so their word is often
    taken as untarnished gospel.

    I haven't read the article, but I wonder if they disclose their
    testing methods. Generally CR is decidedly unscientific.




    ----------------------------
    To email me, remove the zz.



  9. #9
    O/Siris
    Guest

    Re: Consumer Reports (was:Current state of cellular?

    In article <[email protected]>,=20
    Scott//[email protected] says...
    > OK, the topic of CDMA versus GSM has been discussed before. Do a google
    > search and you'll find lots of articles comapring the technologies. Both
    > technologies have their pluses and minuses.
    >=20


    This one is aimed at Europe, but I've always considered it=20
    among the best discussions on this:

    http://www.denbeste.nu/cd_log_entrie...10/GSM3G.shtml


    --=20
    -+-
    R=D8=DF
    O/Siris
    I work for SprintPCS
    I *don't* speak for them.



  10. #10
    Donkey Agony
    Guest

    Re: Consumer Reports (was:Current state of cellular?

    Scott wrote:

    > GSM uses SIM cards while CDMA does not. I like SIM cards and wish
    > this type of technology would be standardized and supported by CDMA
    > as well.


    Here here!!! It would solve *so* many problems.

    I've heard various Asian CDMA implementations use them (in fact, I heard
    the Chinese government *mandated* SIM cards for CDMA 2000 to even be
    considered, so Qualcomm wisely obliged). But it doesn't look like
    Verizon and Sprint will implement them any time soon, if ever (it would
    no doubt be overwhelmingly costly to switch from carrier to SIMs this
    late in the game).

    > Sprint also has 1XRTT data, but I've heard no plans about them
    > deploying 1X EV DO, althouht I'm sure they will eventually.


    Nope. They're moving to 1X EV-DV, supposedly by 2006. DV is the step
    beyond DO.

    --
    da
    ~~
    "OE Quotefix" http://flash.to/oe-quotefix
    to fix Outlook Express' broken quoting.





  11. #11
    Joseph
    Guest

    Re: Consumer Reports (was:Current state of cellular?

    On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 09:45:30 -0600, Thomas T. Veldhouse
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 07:36:44 -0800, Joseph <[email protected]>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 21:58:34 -0500, Larry Levitan
    >><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Did you know verizon is still the number rated carrier?
    >>>
    >>>Did you know T-Mobile is the worst rated carrier?
    >>>
    >>>Do you know which phone is rated the best?
    >>>
    >>>If you really want to know which carrier is the best rated,
    >>>has the least amount of dropped calls, and look at an overview
    >>>of the service plans, buy the current edition of Consumer Reports.
    >>>They conducted a protracted investigation (about 12 pages) of
    >>>all the major carriers -- in various cities. You'll be surprised!

    >>
    >>How about something to verify your claims?
    >>
    >>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >> remove NO from .NOcom to reply

    >
    >
    >Uhm .. he did verify his claims. He said there was about a 12 page
    >spread in Consumer Reports which says what he posted. Go look and
    >report back if it is inaccurate.
    >
    >
    >Tom Veldhouse


    Sorry Tomtom but I ain't gonna subscribe to CR just to see their
    claims.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    remove NO from .NOcom to reply



  12. #12
    Joseph
    Guest

    Re: Consumer Reports (was:Current state of cellular?

    On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 18:54:17 GMT, O/Siris <0sîrî[email protected]întpcs.côm>
    wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>,
    >Scott//[email protected] says...
    >> OK, the topic of CDMA versus GSM has been discussed before. Do a google
    >> search and you'll find lots of articles comapring the technologies. Both
    >> technologies have their pluses and minuses.
    >>

    >
    >This one is aimed at Europe, but I've always considered it
    >among the best discussions on this:
    >
    >http://www.denbeste.nu/cd_log_entrie...10/GSM3G.shtml


    Very interesting article. However, even if GSM *is* less able as the
    article intimates GSM is deployed on over 3/4 of a billion subscribers
    world-wide. CDMA or at least 2G CDMA is only deployed to around 100
    million. If CDMA had been as superior as it's touted to be why didn't
    CDMA make any toehold in Europe when things were getting started in
    the early 80s?

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    remove NO from .NOcom to reply



  13. #13
    Michael Notforyou
    Guest

    Re: Consumer Reports (was:Current state of cellular?

    "Real Estate Agent" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > > Someone wrote:
    > > >
    > > > I'm in Seattle and have been using Verizon's service for about
    > > > eight years (analog service). The service and the phone have
    > > > their shortcomings, so I'm looking at getting something more
    > > > contemporary.

    >
    > I recommend that you stick with one of the two companies in your market
    > which offered Analog service in the early days of cellular phones. (You know
    > one of them is Verizon, and I suspect there is another one--but not more
    > than two per market.)


    Agreed. In most of the nation, Verizon Wireless is one of them.

    > The reasoning is that these companies have an eight to ten year "jump" on
    > the other carriers regarding tower placement. In my market (NC), the two
    > original carriers were Verizon and Alltel.


    Well, Bell Atlantic Mobile and Centel Cellular in your area I think
    (I'm pretty sure of BAMS, and I'm guessing at Centel Cellular). GTE
    Wireless and Centel Cellular in mine.

    Centel Cellular -> Sprint Cellular -> 360 Communications -> Alltel
    Communications

    > They upfitted the early towers to
    > include digital service (in addition to analog). And although they are not
    > adding analog sites, they have put in a large number of digital sites.
    > Altogether, this adds up to extremely good signals when using a digital
    > phone.


    But I would still not go with a digital-only phone in this state.

    > I converted my Verizon account to digital about three years ago and I am
    > very pleased. Four months ago, I converted my Alltel accounts to tri-mode
    > phones and the results were astounding.
    >
    > I have parallel service with a Motorola "Brick" with an outside antenna, and
    > a Bag Phone. The tri-mode phones (a T720 and V60) equal or exceed the more
    > powerful analog equipment in 95% of the places I go. The rare exception is
    > in the mountains of North Carolina, and a few remote places along the coast.
    > So unless you make a lot of calls from the bases of lighthouses on barrier
    > islands, I predict you will be very pleased with the new phone, provided you
    > keep it on either the A or B carrier.
    >
    > In our market, the "newbies" like ATT, Sprint, Cingular, T-mobile still are
    > playing catch-up on coverage, and folks grumble about the coverage.


    Whazzit about T-Mobile in NC?

    I had Cingular. It wasn't just their coverage that was horrible. Their
    CS and billing was miserable.

    Verizon Wireless is the only carrier that works where I spend most of
    my day. All the carriers work at my house.

    > When you
    > are in a metro area, they do pretty well. But they still don't have the
    > tower saturation of the original guys. And at the moment, nobody is meeting
    > Alltel's 1,000 anytime minute package for $39.95! Verizon is a close second
    > with 800. That's the other factor that keeps me on the A and B systems!
    >
    > By the way, the Brick and Bag Phones will continue to remain activated. Hey!
    > You NEVER know when you'll need them! (grin)


    How do you do that? $20/mo/phone to share minutes?

    *Michael Notforyou*



  14. #14
    Real Estate Agent
    Guest

    Re: Consumer Reports (was:Current state of cellular?


    "Michael Notforyou" wrote:
    > >
    > > By the way, the Brick and Bag Phones will continue to remain activated.

    Hey!
    > > You NEVER know when you'll need them! (grin)

    >
    > How do you do that? $20/mo/phone to share minutes?
    >


    We shifted the analog equipment to Alltel's pre-paid service. The minutes
    never expire, provided you make one call, of any length, per month, per
    line. (You have to ask for this option; they seldom advertise it.)

    -Paul-





  15. #15
    S. Warsaw
    Guest

    Re: Consumer Reports (was:Current state of cellular?

    From: "Consumer Reports' President Jim Guest"
    <[email protected]>
    Organization: Consumers Union
    To: All Subscribers


    Dear Consumer,

    Do you ever feel like your cell phone contract keeps you
    trapped in a "cell hell" of dropped calls, dead zones, and
    frustration? I know I do.

    That's why Consumers Union, the nonprofit publisher of
    Consumer Reports, is calling on cell phone companies to
    deliver better service to consumers.

    Would you like to help? Please join us by becoming part of
    our new cell phone quality campaign.

    Click here to send your free message to your cell phone
    company to demand better service for consumers.

    Some of the improvements we're demanding include:

    *Better information about where your cell phone will work
    before buying a service plan.

    *Pro-rated early contract termination charges - consumers
    shouldn't have to pay the full fee near the end of a
    contract, which can often range from $175 to $200 per phone.

    *A prohibition on companies "locking down" cell phones so
    they cannot be used on other carriers' networks.

    You can also help by spreading the word. Please forward this
    message to your friends, family, and co-workers and ask them
    to join you in speaking out for better cell phone service.

    Thank you for your help.

    Jim Guest
    President,
    Consumers Union
    www.ConsumerReports.org

    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    You may also contact us with your comments at
    mailto:[email protected]



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