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  1. #1
    plane
    Guest
    I should know better than to ask this question, however, a simliar
    topic was vented here in the past where extra charges ( and maybe even
    legitimate) were sort of added.

    This is a copy of a part of the on invoice notes from my verizon
    statement of feb 04:


    In order to standardize charges for Voice Mail retrieval across the
    country, beginning with your April 2004
    billing statement, accessing your Voice Mailbox from your wireless
    phone by dialing *86 SEND or by dialing
    your wireless phone number will be deducted from your general airtime
    allowance minutes or your
    night/weekend allowance minutes depending upon the time that your call
    is placed.
    In-Network/Mobile-to-Mobile minutes do not apply to Voice Mail
    retrievals. Voice Mail access exceeding
    your airtime allowance minutes will be billed at the airtime rates
    specified in your wireless service agreement.
    Depending upon your price plan, toll and/or long distance may also be
    charged when you access your Voice
    Mailbox. Accessing your Voice Mailbox from a landline phone will not
    incur airtime charges


    Till now I was able to use m2m minutes to check voice mail messages;
    Does this seem to represent a sort of back door rate increase---I am
    going to argue that point to verizon, and see if I can get a
    concession of either a credit or some exxtra minutes---which I know
    they very seldom do, unlike the sprint c/s reps can do---

    Just wanted opinions. Since this is all handled within the verizon
    system doesn't this seem like they are just penny pinching--nickle and
    dimeing the cusotmer, or is it just me?



    See More: Is Verizon Raising RATes thru the backdoor




  2. #2
    Robert M.
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon Raising RATes thru the backdoor

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] (plane) wrote:

    > I should know better than to ask this question, however, a simliar
    > topic was vented here in the past where extra charges ( and maybe even
    > legitimate) were sort of added.
    >
    > This is a copy of a part of the on invoice notes from my verizon
    > statement of feb 04:
    >
    >
    > In order to standardize charges for Voice Mail retrieval across the
    > country, beginning with your April 2004
    > billing statement, accessing your Voice Mailbox from your wireless
    > phone by dialing *86 SEND or by dialing
    > your wireless phone number will be deducted from your general airtime
    > allowance minutes or your
    > night/weekend allowance minutes depending upon the time that your call
    > is placed.
    > In-Network/Mobile-to-Mobile minutes do not apply to Voice Mail
    > retrievals. Voice Mail access exceeding
    > your airtime allowance minutes will be billed at the airtime rates
    > specified in your wireless service agreement.
    > Depending upon your price plan, toll and/or long distance may also be
    > charged when you access your Voice
    > Mailbox. Accessing your Voice Mailbox from a landline phone will not
    > incur airtime charges
    >
    >
    > Till now I was able to use m2m minutes to check voice mail messages;
    > Does this seem to represent a sort of back door rate increase---I am
    > going to argue that point to verizon, and see if I can get a
    > concession of either a credit or some exxtra minutes---which I know
    > they very seldom do, unlike the sprint c/s reps can do---
    >
    > Just wanted opinions. Since this is all handled within the verizon
    > system doesn't this seem like they are just penny pinching--nickle and
    > dimeing the cusotmer, or is it just me?


    It is certainly grounds to get out of any contract.



  3. #3
    Rod
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon Raising RATes thru the backdoor

    plane wrote:
    :: I should know better than to ask this question, however, a simliar
    :: topic was vented here in the past where extra charges ( and maybe
    :: even legitimate) were sort of added.
    ::
    :: This is a copy of a part of the on invoice notes from my verizon
    :: statement of feb 04:
    ::
    ::
    :: In order to standardize charges for Voice Mail retrieval across the
    :: country, beginning with your April 2004
    :: billing statement, accessing your Voice Mailbox from your wireless
    :: phone by dialing *86 SEND or by dialing
    :: your wireless phone number will be deducted from your general airtime
    :: allowance minutes or your
    :: night/weekend allowance minutes depending upon the time that your
    :: call is placed.
    :: In-Network/Mobile-to-Mobile minutes do not apply to Voice Mail
    :: retrievals. Voice Mail access exceeding
    :: your airtime allowance minutes will be billed at the airtime rates
    :: specified in your wireless service agreement.
    :: Depending upon your price plan, toll and/or long distance may also be
    :: charged when you access your Voice
    :: Mailbox. Accessing your Voice Mailbox from a landline phone will not
    :: incur airtime charges
    ::
    ::
    :: Till now I was able to use m2m minutes to check voice mail messages;
    :: Does this seem to represent a sort of back door rate increase---I am
    :: going to argue that point to verizon, and see if I can get a
    :: concession of either a credit or some exxtra minutes---which I know
    :: they very seldom do, unlike the sprint c/s reps can do---
    ::
    :: Just wanted opinions. Since this is all handled within the verizon
    :: system doesn't this seem like they are just penny pinching--nickle
    :: and dimeing the cusotmer, or is it just me?



    It's just you. The voicemail airtime was never meant to come out of the m2m
    from the start. Enjoy the free ride till they take it away.





  4. #4
    Jerome Zelinske
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon Raising RATes thru the backdoor

    You might want to post this in the verizon newsgroup.


    plane wrote:

    > I should know better than to ask this question, however, a simliar
    > topic was vented here in the past where extra charges ( and maybe even
    > legitimate) were sort of added.
    >
    > This is a copy of a part of the on invoice notes from my verizon
    > statement of feb 04:
    >
    >
    > In order to standardize charges for Voice Mail retrieval across the
    > country, beginning with your April 2004
    > billing statement, accessing your Voice Mailbox from your wireless
    > phone by dialing *86 SEND or by dialing
    > your wireless phone number will be deducted from your general airtime
    > allowance minutes or your
    > night/weekend allowance minutes depending upon the time that your call
    > is placed.
    > In-Network/Mobile-to-Mobile minutes do not apply to Voice Mail
    > retrievals. Voice Mail access exceeding
    > your airtime allowance minutes will be billed at the airtime rates
    > specified in your wireless service agreement.
    > Depending upon your price plan, toll and/or long distance may also be
    > charged when you access your Voice
    > Mailbox. Accessing your Voice Mailbox from a landline phone will not
    > incur airtime charges
    >
    >
    > Till now I was able to use m2m minutes to check voice mail messages;
    > Does this seem to represent a sort of back door rate increase---I am
    > going to argue that point to verizon, and see if I can get a
    > concession of either a credit or some exxtra minutes---which I know
    > they very seldom do, unlike the sprint c/s reps can do---
    >
    > Just wanted opinions. Since this is all handled within the verizon
    > system doesn't this seem like they are just penny pinching--nickle and
    > dimeing the cusotmer, or is it just me?





  5. #5
    Bob Smith
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon Raising RATes thru the backdoor


    "plane" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > I should know better than to ask this question, however, a simliar
    > topic was vented here in the past where extra charges ( and maybe even
    > legitimate) were sort of added.
    >
    > This is a copy of a part of the on invoice notes from my verizon
    > statement of feb 04:
    >
    >
    > In order to standardize charges for Voice Mail retrieval across the
    > country, beginning with your April 2004
    > billing statement, accessing your Voice Mailbox from your wireless
    > phone by dialing *86 SEND or by dialing
    > your wireless phone number will be deducted from your general airtime
    > allowance minutes or your
    > night/weekend allowance minutes depending upon the time that your call
    > is placed.
    > In-Network/Mobile-to-Mobile minutes do not apply to Voice Mail
    > retrievals. Voice Mail access exceeding
    > your airtime allowance minutes will be billed at the airtime rates
    > specified in your wireless service agreement.
    > Depending upon your price plan, toll and/or long distance may also be
    > charged when you access your Voice
    > Mailbox. Accessing your Voice Mailbox from a landline phone will not
    > incur airtime charges
    >
    >
    > Till now I was able to use m2m minutes to check voice mail messages;
    > Does this seem to represent a sort of back door rate increase---I am
    > going to argue that point to verizon, and see if I can get a
    > concession of either a credit or some exxtra minutes---which I know
    > they very seldom do, unlike the sprint c/s reps can do---
    >
    > Just wanted opinions. Since this is all handled within the verizon
    > system doesn't this seem like they are just penny pinching--nickle and
    > dimeing the cusotmer, or is it just me?


    I think you've been lucky not to get charged AT or N&W minutes previously.
    Despite what ole Phillipe just said to you, did Verizon every say to you, in
    writing that calls to VM would be free? If they did, you should be able to
    get some minutes credited to your account.

    If not ... just forget about and go on with your life ...

    Bob





  6. #6
    Isaiah Beard
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon Raising RATes thru the backdoor

    plane wrote:


    >
    > Till now I was able to use m2m minutes to check voice mail messages;
    > Does this seem to represent a sort of back door rate increase---


    Not really. A backdoor increase would be, say, VZW charging you $2.00
    extra or so for a mandatory block of minutes that could ONLY be used for
    checking voicemail.

    In the case you're describing, you can't really call it a rate increase,
    backdoor or otherwise, because Verizon cannot reasonably predict an
    increase in revenue as a result. It could well be that even by checking
    your VM over your phone, you still won't go over your airtime, in which
    case Verizon gets nothing from their change in policy.

    --
    E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
    Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.




  7. #7
    Steven J Sobol
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon Raising RATes thru the backdoor

    plane <[email protected]> wrote:
    > I should know better than to ask this question, however, a simliar
    > topic was vented here in the past where extra charges ( and maybe even
    > legitimate) were sort of added.
    >
    > This is a copy of a part of the on invoice notes from my verizon
    > statement of feb 04:
    >
    >
    > In order to standardize charges for Voice Mail retrieval across the
    > country, beginning with your April 2004
    > billing statement, accessing your Voice Mailbox from your wireless
    > phone by dialing *86 SEND or by dialing
    > your wireless phone number will be deducted from your general airtime
    > allowance minutes or your
    > night/weekend allowance minutes depending upon the time that your call
    > is placed.


    > In-Network/Mobile-to-Mobile minutes do not apply to Voice Mail
    > retrievals. Voice Mail access exceeding


    This is not a "backdoor" issue. It's been discussed extensively in
    alt.cellular.verizon. The policy is being standardized across markets.

    Some markets like Ohio/Michigan (where I used to live) and Los Angeles (where
    I live now) have *always* deducted Voicemail retrieval from your peak or off-
    peak bucket and not from M2M.

    > Just wanted opinions. Since this is all handled within the verizon
    > system doesn't this seem like they are just penny pinching--nickle and
    > dimeing the cusotmer, or is it just me?


    I can understand why you might feel that way, but I'm looking at the bigger
    picture where they had one group of market areas that had one policy and
    another group that had a different policy, and it makes sense for everyone
    to have the same rules.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / [email protected]
    Domain Names, $9.95/yr, 24x7 service: http://DomainNames.JustThe.net/
    "someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
    slip covers." -adam brower * Hiroshima '45, Chernobyl '86, Windows 98/2000/2003



  8. #8
    Steven J Sobol
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon Raising RATes thru the backdoor

    Robert M. <[email protected]> wrote:

    > It is certainly grounds to get out of any contract.


    I love it. Phillipe is dispensing information about Verizon now, and he
    has absolutely no clue what he's talking about.

    The simple fact is that Verizon has *stated in their printed literature*
    (from the start) that voicemail retrieval from a handset will cost you airtime.

    So no, it's not grounds to get out of a contract.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / [email protected]
    Domain Names, $9.95/yr, 24x7 service: http://DomainNames.JustThe.net/
    "someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
    slip covers." -adam brower * Hiroshima '45, Chernobyl '86, Windows 98/2000/2003



  9. #9
    Steven J Sobol
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon Raising RATes thru the backdoor

    Jerome Zelinske <[email protected]> wrote:
    > You might want to post this in the verizon newsgroup.


    Or you might want to check Google Groups - this has been discussed at length
    there already.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / [email protected]
    Domain Names, $9.95/yr, 24x7 service: http://DomainNames.JustThe.net/
    "someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
    slip covers." -adam brower * Hiroshima '45, Chernobyl '86, Windows 98/2000/2003



  10. #10
    plane
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon Raising RATes thru the backdoor

    Steven J Sobol <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Robert M. <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > It is certainly grounds to get out of any contract.

    >
    > I love it. Phillipe is dispensing information about Verizon now, and he
    > has absolutely no clue what he's talking about.
    >
    > The simple fact is that Verizon has *stated in their printed literature*
    > (from the start) that voicemail retrieval from a handset will cost you airtime.
    >
    > So no, it's not grounds to get out of a contract.


    Steve,

    you're right this has been vented on the verizon side, which is where
    I learned about it prior to the statement. I was just wanting to get
    the opinion from a different group.

    Some how in all of verizons's mouse print, I have not been able to
    find any specificc mention of m2m as related to voice mail--even the
    latest brochure in my area (tn) only indirectly covers the subject, by
    indicating that m2m covers calls to *any other* verizon phone, ete,
    etc--it may be covered in one of the other pages, that I may have
    missed. If you can point it out, I would like to read it.


    My point here is that why make a charge to check voice mail if the
    account has m2m---just how many times or minutes would the average
    user check voicemail---in my case maybe 30-50 times per month, with it
    being free(for the last year or so)---if verizon has essentially given
    m2m minutes (in-network) in the 1000's of minutes essentially free,
    what sense does it make for them to,IMHO, just to annoy customers over
    what is another "in network" proceedure, that is apparently the
    diffence in cost for m2m and regular calls, is that the process is all
    within the verizon in house network.. all in all, however, if I had
    to choose between paying for check voice mail, and getting the cheap
    m2m, I would choose the m2m.

    AS I said, obviously no one would think this is a great idea; I just
    wanted another groups thoughts (rational thoughts). Remember when
    sprint began charging for *4 calls, and at least sprint has a way
    around the voice mail charges.



  11. #11
    Robert M.
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon Raising RATes thru the backdoor

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] (plane) wrote:

    > Steven J Sobol <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > Robert M. <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > It is certainly grounds to get out of any contract.

    > >
    > > I love it. Robert is dispensing information about Verizon now...


    When did Sobol become the USENET all purpose moderator? If a post is
    here, I am free to comment on it, whether you agree or not.



  12. #12
    Scott Stephenson
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon Raising RATes thru the backdoor


    "Robert M." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > [email protected] (plane) wrote:
    >
    > > Steven J Sobol <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > Robert M. <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > It is certainly grounds to get out of any contract.
    > > >
    > > > I love it. Robert is dispensing information about Verizon now...

    >
    > When did Sobol become the USENET all purpose moderator? If a post is
    > here, I am free to comment on it, whether you agree or not.


    No moderation there- he simply pointed out that you have once again opened
    your mouth about something you know nothing about. Grow up.





  13. #13
    Steven J Sobol
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon Raising RATes thru the backdoor

    plane <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Some how in all of verizons's mouse print, I have not been able to
    > find any specificc mention of m2m as related to voice mail--even the
    > latest brochure in my area (tn) only indirectly covers the subject, by
    > indicating that m2m covers calls to *any other* verizon phone, ete,
    > etc--it may be covered in one of the other pages, that I may have
    > missed. If you can point it out, I would like to read it.


    Next time I'm near the Victorville VZW retail store, I'll look for a
    brochure and either scan it and post it, or drop it in snail mail to you.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / [email protected]
    Domain Names, $9.95/yr, 24x7 service: http://DomainNames.JustThe.net/
    "someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
    slip covers." -adam brower * Hiroshima '45, Chernobyl '86, Windows 98/2000/2003



  14. #14
    Steven J Sobol
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon Raising RATes thru the backdoor

    Robert M. <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> > > It is certainly grounds to get out of any contract.
    >> >
    >> > I love it. Robert is dispensing information about Verizon now...

    >
    > When did Sobol become the USENET all purpose moderator? If a post is
    > here, I am free to comment on it, whether you agree or not.


    Did I tell you not to post it? No. Are you pissy because I corrected you?
    Very likely.

    I'm just amused how you are now the Verizon expert even though you've
    never even been a Verizon customer. And since you were wrong about it being
    grounds for getting out of contract, especially since Verizon states IN
    WRITING that voicemail retrievals from your handset deduct minutes from your
    monthly allotment, I did feel that I needed to correct you.

    I've been a Verizon Wireless customer since September of 2000, which is roughly
    about three and a half years longer than you've been a Verizon Wireless
    customer. In fact, I've been a Verizon customer *longer* than I've been a
    Sprint PCS customer.

    Unless, of course, you're going to start claiming you have been a VZW
    customer all this time. (in which case, I'm sure we'd have seen your crap
    on alt.cellular.verizon a while ago.)

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / [email protected]
    Domain Names, $9.95/yr, 24x7 service: http://DomainNames.JustThe.net/
    "someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
    slip covers." -adam brower * Hiroshima '45, Chernobyl '86, Windows 98/2000/2003



  15. #15
    Bob Smith
    Guest

    Re: Is Verizon Raising RATes thru the backdoor


    "Steven J Sobol" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Robert M. <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >> > > It is certainly grounds to get out of any contract.
    > >> >
    > >> > I love it. Robert is dispensing information about Verizon now...

    > >
    > > When did Sobol become the USENET all purpose moderator? If a post is
    > > here, I am free to comment on it, whether you agree or not.

    >
    > Did I tell you not to post it? No. Are you pissy because I corrected you?
    > Very likely.
    >
    > I'm just amused how you are now the Verizon expert even though you've
    > never even been a Verizon customer. And since you were wrong about it

    being
    > grounds for getting out of contract, especially since Verizon states IN
    > WRITING that voicemail retrievals from your handset deduct minutes from

    your
    > monthly allotment, I did feel that I needed to correct you.
    >
    > I've been a Verizon Wireless customer since September of 2000, which is

    roughly
    > about three and a half years longer than you've been a Verizon Wireless
    > customer. In fact, I've been a Verizon customer *longer* than I've been a
    > Sprint PCS customer.
    >
    > Unless, of course, you're going to start claiming you have been a VZW
    > customer all this time. (in which case, I'm sure we'd have seen your crap
    > on alt.cellular.verizon a while ago.)


    Just one problem with your post Steven ... trying to explain it to Phillipe.
    Phillipe doesn't follow logic or the truth ...

    Bob





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