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- 04-25-2004, 11:25 AM #1RicoGuest
I'm engaged in a dispute with an idiot - He claims that,when bidding on a
phone on ebay,one should never expect the seller to provide you with the
ESN,as there are things a scam artist can do with it.
I say BS,and I wouldn't bid on a phone if the seller refused to provide the
ESN before the auction closed.
So is there any good reason for a seller not to disclose a phones ESN ?
I've sold a few phones on ebay,and listed the ESN right in the auction.
› See More: Providing ESN for an ebay phone
- 04-25-2004, 11:36 AM #2fusQuantoGuest
Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone
On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 17:25:54 GMT
Rico <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm engaged in a dispute with an idiot - He claims that,when bidding on a
> phone on ebay,one should never expect the seller to provide you with the
> ESN,as there are things a scam artist can do with it.
> I say BS,and I wouldn't bid on a phone if the seller refused to provide the
> ESN before the auction closed.
> So is there any good reason for a seller not to disclose a phones ESN ?
>
> I've sold a few phones on ebay,and listed the ESN right in the auction.
im in this dilemma too, as im about to post a phone on ebay. what stops someone
from calling sprint and being like yah i just found a phone lying on the floor
here's teh ESN. would whoever gets the phone next be able to use it if it is
reported lost or wahtever?
- 04-25-2004, 11:38 AM #3MikeGuest
Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone
Rico wrote:
> I'm engaged in a dispute with an idiot - He claims that,when bidding on a
> phone on ebay,one should never expect the seller to provide you with the
> ESN,as there are things a scam artist can do with it.
> I say BS,and I wouldn't bid on a phone if the seller refused to provide the
> ESN before the auction closed.
> So is there any good reason for a seller not to disclose a phones ESN ?
>
> I've sold a few phones on ebay,and listed the ESN right in the auction.
I'm about to sell a phone there, and this thought crossed my mind. Main
issue I see is that the person could put the phone on their account.
Most of the time during activations, if you just stay on the end of the
line and agree with everything, you'll finish the activation with no red
flags. If you've activated a handset before, I guarantee you can
complete the process without making a CSR ask uncomfortable questions.
Once it's there, they are in control, and could report the phone lost.
Sprint wouldn't reactivate the phone until the con artist took the phone
into a Sprint store with two forms of their id. That would probably
never happen, but that person could render the phone unusable. I would
suggest, as an alternative, using other means to prove the phone works.
If it's still active on the account, have them send a photo to you. Put
the photo on the display and take a picture of the phone. Have them call
the phone and then take a picture of the caller ID. Email that to the
buyer. If the phone isn't active, your options are more limited. Just
assume there are other fish in the sea, if you don't wish to give out
the ESN, don't.
-mike
- 04-25-2004, 12:41 PM #4RicoGuest
Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone
Mike <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Rico wrote:
>
>> I'm engaged in a dispute with an idiot - He claims that,when bidding on
>> a phone on ebay,one should never expect the seller to provide you with
>> the ESN,as there are things a scam artist can do with it.
>> I say BS,and I wouldn't bid on a phone if the seller refused to provide
>> the ESN before the auction closed.
>> So is there any good reason for a seller not to disclose a phones ESN ?
>>
>> I've sold a few phones on ebay,and listed the ESN right in the auction.
>
> I'm about to sell a phone there, and this thought crossed my mind. Main
> issue I see is that the person could put the phone on their account.
> Most of the time during activations, if you just stay on the end of the
> line and agree with everything, you'll finish the activation with no red
> flags. If you've activated a handset before, I guarantee you can
> complete the process without making a CSR ask uncomfortable questions.
> Once it's there, they are in control, and could report the phone lost.
> Sprint wouldn't reactivate the phone until the con artist took the phone
> into a Sprint store with two forms of their id. That would probably
> never happen, but that person could render the phone unusable.
Then your talking more about a childish prankster than a scam artist.
Why would anyone want to render a phone of a person they don't even know
unusable ?
To get anywhere with a call to sprint,you have to at least give your name and
password.
If the potential prankster doesn't have that info,which they shouldn't,then
they wouldn't get very far.
I can't think of a single time when I called sprint and wasn't asked for a
password.
If thats your only concern,I'd say the odds against it happening are so
astronomical as to be safely dis-regarded.
> I would
> suggest, as an alternative, using other means to prove the phone works.
> If it's still active on the account, have them send a photo to you. Put
> the photo on the display and take a picture of the phone. Have them call
> the phone and then take a picture of the caller ID. Email that to the
> buyer. If the phone isn't active, your options are more limited. Just
> assume there are other fish in the sea, if you don't wish to give out
> the ESN, don't.
> -mike
>
Sounds good in theory - But not many people are going to want to jump through
hoops like that to place a bid - Not to mention most bids [unless your
selling/bidding on a very hot phone] occur with hours/minutes to go in the
auction,which would preclude doing what your saying.
Too,the vast majority of phones for auction on ebay,for obvious reasons,are
not currently active and capable of receiving calls.
Put the ESN in the auction.
Short of that,certainly send it to anyone inquiring about it.
- 04-25-2004, 01:03 PM #5Frank HarrisGuest
Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone
I'm too naive to be a thief, so I don't get Mike's reasoning. For a con
artist to activate the phone using just its ESN, wouldn't the thief have
to initiate paying a monthly charge? And get no service for it because
he didn't actually have the phone? So he'd be spending money just to
prevent the auction winner from being able to use the phone? What's the
point?
Mike wrote:
> I'm about to sell a phone there, and this thought crossed my mind. Main
> issue I see is that the person could put the phone on their account.
> Most of the time during activations, if you just stay on the end of the
> line and agree with everything, you'll finish the activation with no red
> flags. If you've activated a handset before, I guarantee you can
> complete the process without making a CSR ask uncomfortable questions.
> Once it's there, they are in control, and could report the phone lost.
> Sprint wouldn't reactivate the phone until the con artist took the phone
> into a Sprint store with two forms of their id. That would probably
> never happen, but that person could render the phone unusable.
> <snip>
-mike
>
--
Frank Harris in San Francisco with an A620
- 04-25-2004, 01:11 PM #6MikeGuest
Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone
Frank Harris wrote:
> I'm too naive to be a thief, so I don't get Mike's reasoning. For a con
> artist to activate the phone using just its ESN, wouldn't the thief have
> to initiate paying a monthly charge? And get no service for it because
> he didn't actually have the phone? So he'd be spending money just to
> prevent the auction winner from being able to use the phone? What's the
> point?
>
Not thievery, vandalism, really. Also, the person doing this may not
need to spend money. I've not been charged for an ESN swap. If I was
inclined, I could call, activate the phone and then call shortly
thereafter, say that I lost the phone, and activate my old handset.
-mike
- 04-25-2004, 02:08 PM #7EricGuest
Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone
(Rico) wrote:
<<I'm engaged in a dispute with an idiot - He claims that,when bidding
on a phone on ebay,one should never expect the seller to provide you
with the ESN,as there are things a scam artist can do with it. I say
BS,and I wouldn't bid on a phone if the seller refused to provide the
ESN before the auction closed.
So is there any good reason for a seller not to disclose a phones ESN ?
>>
Absolutely not. Unless the sellar has something to hide, it harms no
one or anything to give out the ESN upon request. Although one could
use the ESN to activate the phone without physically having it in one's
possession... it would be stupid to do so and he/she would have to add
an additional line on his/her account to do so, or pay a monthly charge
for a phone he/she doesn't even have. If someone wanted to report it
lost and be an ass about it, that could happen, but then Customer
Service would probably log who called in and reported it, so it would be
traced back if it was a prank.
<<I've sold a few phones on ebay,and listed the ESN right in the
auction. >>
That is the best, honest and most upfront way to do it.
Eric
- 04-25-2004, 02:11 PM #8EricGuest
Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone
[email protected] (Mike) wrote:
<<Not thievery, vandalism, really. Also, the person doing this may not
need to spend money. I've not been charged for an ESN swap. If I was
inclined, I could call, activate the phone and then call shortly
thereafter, say that I lost the phone, and activate my old handset. >>
That would be fully possible, but I would hope that it would raise some
red flags with whoever is doing the swapping at Customer Care if some
guy calls and activates a new phone, then calls in a few hours later and
said he lost it and to reactivate his old phone. That would be a lot of
trouble for someone to go through... all of which could probably be
traced back to him via the ESN. Wouldn't it be prudent for providers to
keep a log/database of who activates each individual ESN so malicious
things like this can be punishable/traced?
Eric
- 04-25-2004, 02:36 PM #9Steven J SobolGuest
Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone
Rico <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm engaged in a dispute with an idiot - He claims that,when bidding on a
> phone on ebay,one should never expect the seller to provide you with the
> ESN,as there are things a scam artist can do with it.
> I say BS,and I wouldn't bid on a phone if the seller refused to provide the
> ESN before the auction closed.
> So is there any good reason for a seller not to disclose a phones ESN ?
> I've sold a few phones on ebay,and listed the ESN right in the auction.
I had exactly this situation: some of the eBay auctioneers selling the P300
we were looking for provided ESNs in their auction listings, but the guy we
bought from didn't for that reason (we bid on it anyhow because we decided to
trust him). I called Sprint. The only way I'm told you can activate a used
Sprint phone on your account is if the previous owner de-activated it, either
by terminating service with Sprint or by replacing the phone with a new one.
So your friend is wrong... UNLESS the phone is already de-activated (for
example, if he already bought a new one).
--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / [email protected]
Domain Names, $9.95/yr, 24x7 service: http://DomainNames.JustThe.net/
"someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
slip covers." -adam brower * Hiroshima '45, Chernobyl '86, Windows 98/2000/2003
- 04-25-2004, 04:07 PM #10Robert M.Guest
Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone
In article <[email protected]>,
Rico <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm engaged in a dispute with an idiot - He claims that,when bidding on a
> phone on ebay,one should never expect the seller to provide you with the
> ESN,as there are things a scam artist can do with it.
> I say BS,and I wouldn't bid on a phone if the seller refused to provide the
> ESN before the auction closed.
> So is there any good reason for a seller not to disclose a phones ESN ?
>
> I've sold a few phones on ebay,and listed the ESN right in the auction.
When I sold a phone on Ebay I didn't list the ESN or have anyone ask for
it. I did guarantee that the buyer could activate it.
- 04-25-2004, 04:48 PM #11TechGeekGuest
Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone
Rico <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I'm engaged in a dispute with an idiot - He claims that,when bidding on a
> phone on ebay,one should never expect the seller to provide you with the
> ESN,as there are things a scam artist can do with it.
> I say BS,and I wouldn't bid on a phone if the seller refused to provide the
> ESN before the auction closed.
> So is there any good reason for a seller not to disclose a phones ESN ?
>
> I've sold a few phones on ebay,and listed the ESN right in the auction.
Hmm, posting the ESN in the auction itself may not be a good idea, but
any good and honest seller would supply you with the ESN upon request.
If I was bidding on a phone and the seller refused to give me the ESN,
then I'd be very suspicious.
But then again, if it's stolen, what's to stop them form supplying you
with a good esn and ship you the bad esn?
- 04-25-2004, 07:38 PM #12RicoGuest
Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone
[email protected] (TechGeek) wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Rico <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> I'm engaged in a dispute with an idiot - He claims that,when bidding on
>> a phone on ebay,one should never expect the seller to provide you with
>> the ESN,as there are things a scam artist can do with it.
>> I say BS,and I wouldn't bid on a phone if the seller refused to provide
>> the ESN before the auction closed.
>> So is there any good reason for a seller not to disclose a phones ESN ?
>>
>> I've sold a few phones on ebay,and listed the ESN right in the auction.
>
> Hmm, posting the ESN in the auction itself may not be a good idea, but
> any good and honest seller would supply you with the ESN upon request.
Well then ... why wouldn't it be a good idea ?
Just a gut feeling ?
>
> If I was bidding on a phone and the seller refused to give me the ESN,
> then I'd be very suspicious.
>
> But then again, if it's stolen, what's to stop them form supplying you
> with a good esn and ship you the bad esn?
>
I agree,and mentioned that in another post in this thread.
Only thing there is if they did supply you with a bogus good ESN for a stolen
phone,you will have proof of their duplicity by simply saving the emails.
For that reason,most cons would either not answer that request at all,or
perhaps reply via an anonymous remailer - Either one of which should be
grounds for suspicion.
- 04-25-2004, 07:42 PM #13r2175Guest
Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone
Rico wrote:
> [email protected] (TechGeek) wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>
>>Rico <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:<[email protected]>...
>>
>>>I'm engaged in a dispute with an idiot - He claims that,when bidding on
>>>a phone on ebay,one should never expect the seller to provide you with
>>>the ESN,as there are things a scam artist can do with it.
>>>I say BS,and I wouldn't bid on a phone if the seller refused to provide
>>>the ESN before the auction closed.
>>>So is there any good reason for a seller not to disclose a phones ESN ?
>>>
>>>I've sold a few phones on ebay,and listed the ESN right in the auction.
>>
>>Hmm, posting the ESN in the auction itself may not be a good idea, but
>>any good and honest seller would supply you with the ESN upon request.
>
>
> Well then ... why wouldn't it be a good idea ?
> Just a gut feeling ?
>
>
>>If I was bidding on a phone and the seller refused to give me the ESN,
>>then I'd be very suspicious.
>>
>>But then again, if it's stolen, what's to stop them form supplying you
>>with a good esn and ship you the bad esn?
>>
>
>
> I agree,and mentioned that in another post in this thread.
> Only thing there is if they did supply you with a bogus good ESN for a stolen
> phone,you will have proof of their duplicity by simply saving the emails.
> For that reason,most cons would either not answer that request at all,or
> perhaps reply via an anonymous remailer - Either one of which should be
> grounds for suspicion.
>
Agreed, long and short of it, if he won't give the esn he's not worth
dealing with.
Good call !
- 04-25-2004, 09:17 PM #14planeGuest
Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone
"Robert M." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Rico <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I'm engaged in a dispute with an idiot - He claims that,when bidding on a
> > phone on ebay,one should never expect the seller to provide you with the
> > ESN,as there are things a scam artist can do with it.
> > I say BS,and I wouldn't bid on a phone if the seller refused to provide the
> > ESN before the auction closed.
> > So is there any good reason for a seller not to disclose a phones ESN ?
> >
> > I've sold a few phones on ebay,and listed the ESN right in the auction.
>
> When I sold a phone on Ebay I didn't list the ESN or have anyone ask for
> it. I did guarantee that the buyer could activate it.
i have bought and sold numerous phones on ebay. Check for lots of
positive feedback--I have been ask questions and have responded to
questions, ask for and received esn's---If your seller is an idiot
now, he will be even more so if you have trouble with the phone.
Check that feedback.
- 04-26-2004, 07:25 AM #15TechGeekGuest
Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone
Rico <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> > Hmm, posting the ESN in the auction itself may not be a good idea, but
> > any good and honest seller would supply you with the ESN upon request.
>
> Well then ... why wouldn't it be a good idea ?
> Just a gut feeling ?
>
While the intentions are good, it leaves the ESN out for anyone to
mess with it (activate it, put it into fraud status) and screw you and
your buyer. I'd suggest leaving a line in there to say "feel free to
send me an email asking for the ESN" that way you're most likely to
get serious people looking at the ESN, since a lot of these people who
just want to cause trouble are rather lazy.
> >
> > If I was bidding on a phone and the seller refused to give me the ESN,
> > then I'd be very suspicious.
> >
> > But then again, if it's stolen, what's to stop them form supplying you
> > with a good esn and ship you the bad esn?
> >
>
> I agree,and mentioned that in another post in this thread.
> Only thing there is if they did supply you with a bogus good ESN for a stolen
> phone,you will have proof of their duplicity by simply saving the emails.
> For that reason,most cons would either not answer that request at all,or
> perhaps reply via an anonymous remailer - Either one of which should be
> grounds for suspicion.
True, but I have seen complaints about similar situations, my only
fallback would be if they do email you the ESN, or have it in the
auction, keep it, either print out the auction with a date stamp, or
save the email so you can verify it and then argue it later, that may
be your only chance of salvation in a situation like this.
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