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  1. #1
    Rico
    Guest
    I'm engaged in a dispute with an idiot - He claims that,when bidding on a
    phone on ebay,one should never expect the seller to provide you with the
    ESN,as there are things a scam artist can do with it.
    I say BS,and I wouldn't bid on a phone if the seller refused to provide the
    ESN before the auction closed.
    So is there any good reason for a seller not to disclose a phones ESN ?

    I've sold a few phones on ebay,and listed the ESN right in the auction.



    See More: Providing ESN for an ebay phone




  2. #2
    fusQuanto
    Guest

    Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone

    On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 17:25:54 GMT
    Rico <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I'm engaged in a dispute with an idiot - He claims that,when bidding on a
    > phone on ebay,one should never expect the seller to provide you with the
    > ESN,as there are things a scam artist can do with it.
    > I say BS,and I wouldn't bid on a phone if the seller refused to provide the
    > ESN before the auction closed.
    > So is there any good reason for a seller not to disclose a phones ESN ?
    >
    > I've sold a few phones on ebay,and listed the ESN right in the auction.


    im in this dilemma too, as im about to post a phone on ebay. what stops someone
    from calling sprint and being like yah i just found a phone lying on the floor
    here's teh ESN. would whoever gets the phone next be able to use it if it is
    reported lost or wahtever?



  3. #3
    Mike
    Guest

    Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone

    Rico wrote:

    > I'm engaged in a dispute with an idiot - He claims that,when bidding on a
    > phone on ebay,one should never expect the seller to provide you with the
    > ESN,as there are things a scam artist can do with it.
    > I say BS,and I wouldn't bid on a phone if the seller refused to provide the
    > ESN before the auction closed.
    > So is there any good reason for a seller not to disclose a phones ESN ?
    >
    > I've sold a few phones on ebay,and listed the ESN right in the auction.


    I'm about to sell a phone there, and this thought crossed my mind. Main
    issue I see is that the person could put the phone on their account.
    Most of the time during activations, if you just stay on the end of the
    line and agree with everything, you'll finish the activation with no red
    flags. If you've activated a handset before, I guarantee you can
    complete the process without making a CSR ask uncomfortable questions.
    Once it's there, they are in control, and could report the phone lost.
    Sprint wouldn't reactivate the phone until the con artist took the phone
    into a Sprint store with two forms of their id. That would probably
    never happen, but that person could render the phone unusable. I would
    suggest, as an alternative, using other means to prove the phone works.
    If it's still active on the account, have them send a photo to you. Put
    the photo on the display and take a picture of the phone. Have them call
    the phone and then take a picture of the caller ID. Email that to the
    buyer. If the phone isn't active, your options are more limited. Just
    assume there are other fish in the sea, if you don't wish to give out
    the ESN, don't.
    -mike




  4. #4
    Rico
    Guest

    Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone

    Mike <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > Rico wrote:
    >
    >> I'm engaged in a dispute with an idiot - He claims that,when bidding on
    >> a phone on ebay,one should never expect the seller to provide you with
    >> the ESN,as there are things a scam artist can do with it.
    >> I say BS,and I wouldn't bid on a phone if the seller refused to provide
    >> the ESN before the auction closed.
    >> So is there any good reason for a seller not to disclose a phones ESN ?
    >>
    >> I've sold a few phones on ebay,and listed the ESN right in the auction.

    >
    > I'm about to sell a phone there, and this thought crossed my mind. Main
    > issue I see is that the person could put the phone on their account.
    > Most of the time during activations, if you just stay on the end of the
    > line and agree with everything, you'll finish the activation with no red
    > flags. If you've activated a handset before, I guarantee you can
    > complete the process without making a CSR ask uncomfortable questions.
    > Once it's there, they are in control, and could report the phone lost.
    > Sprint wouldn't reactivate the phone until the con artist took the phone
    > into a Sprint store with two forms of their id. That would probably
    > never happen, but that person could render the phone unusable.


    Then your talking more about a childish prankster than a scam artist.
    Why would anyone want to render a phone of a person they don't even know
    unusable ?
    To get anywhere with a call to sprint,you have to at least give your name and
    password.
    If the potential prankster doesn't have that info,which they shouldn't,then
    they wouldn't get very far.
    I can't think of a single time when I called sprint and wasn't asked for a
    password.
    If thats your only concern,I'd say the odds against it happening are so
    astronomical as to be safely dis-regarded.

    > I would
    > suggest, as an alternative, using other means to prove the phone works.
    > If it's still active on the account, have them send a photo to you. Put
    > the photo on the display and take a picture of the phone. Have them call
    > the phone and then take a picture of the caller ID. Email that to the
    > buyer. If the phone isn't active, your options are more limited. Just
    > assume there are other fish in the sea, if you don't wish to give out
    > the ESN, don't.
    > -mike
    >

    Sounds good in theory - But not many people are going to want to jump through
    hoops like that to place a bid - Not to mention most bids [unless your
    selling/bidding on a very hot phone] occur with hours/minutes to go in the
    auction,which would preclude doing what your saying.
    Too,the vast majority of phones for auction on ebay,for obvious reasons,are
    not currently active and capable of receiving calls.

    Put the ESN in the auction.
    Short of that,certainly send it to anyone inquiring about it.




  5. #5
    Frank Harris
    Guest

    Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone

    I'm too naive to be a thief, so I don't get Mike's reasoning. For a con
    artist to activate the phone using just its ESN, wouldn't the thief have
    to initiate paying a monthly charge? And get no service for it because
    he didn't actually have the phone? So he'd be spending money just to
    prevent the auction winner from being able to use the phone? What's the
    point?

    Mike wrote:

    > I'm about to sell a phone there, and this thought crossed my mind. Main
    > issue I see is that the person could put the phone on their account.
    > Most of the time during activations, if you just stay on the end of the
    > line and agree with everything, you'll finish the activation with no red
    > flags. If you've activated a handset before, I guarantee you can
    > complete the process without making a CSR ask uncomfortable questions.
    > Once it's there, they are in control, and could report the phone lost.
    > Sprint wouldn't reactivate the phone until the con artist took the phone
    > into a Sprint store with two forms of their id. That would probably
    > never happen, but that person could render the phone unusable.
    > <snip>


    -mike
    >


    --
    Frank Harris in San Francisco with an A620



  6. #6
    Mike
    Guest

    Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone

    Frank Harris wrote:

    > I'm too naive to be a thief, so I don't get Mike's reasoning. For a con
    > artist to activate the phone using just its ESN, wouldn't the thief have
    > to initiate paying a monthly charge? And get no service for it because
    > he didn't actually have the phone? So he'd be spending money just to
    > prevent the auction winner from being able to use the phone? What's the
    > point?
    >


    Not thievery, vandalism, really. Also, the person doing this may not
    need to spend money. I've not been charged for an ESN swap. If I was
    inclined, I could call, activate the phone and then call shortly
    thereafter, say that I lost the phone, and activate my old handset.

    -mike




  7. #7
    Eric
    Guest

    Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone

    (Rico) wrote:
    <<I'm engaged in a dispute with an idiot - He claims that,when bidding
    on a phone on ebay,one should never expect the seller to provide you
    with the ESN,as there are things a scam artist can do with it. I say
    BS,and I wouldn't bid on a phone if the seller refused to provide the
    ESN before the auction closed.
    So is there any good reason for a seller not to disclose a phones ESN ?
    >>


    Absolutely not. Unless the sellar has something to hide, it harms no
    one or anything to give out the ESN upon request. Although one could
    use the ESN to activate the phone without physically having it in one's
    possession... it would be stupid to do so and he/she would have to add
    an additional line on his/her account to do so, or pay a monthly charge
    for a phone he/she doesn't even have. If someone wanted to report it
    lost and be an ass about it, that could happen, but then Customer
    Service would probably log who called in and reported it, so it would be
    traced back if it was a prank.

    <<I've sold a few phones on ebay,and listed the ESN right in the
    auction. >>

    That is the best, honest and most upfront way to do it.

    Eric




  8. #8
    Eric
    Guest

    Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone

    [email protected] (Mike) wrote:
    <<Not thievery, vandalism, really. Also, the person doing this may not
    need to spend money. I've not been charged for an ESN swap. If I was
    inclined, I could call, activate the phone and then call shortly
    thereafter, say that I lost the phone, and activate my old handset. >>

    That would be fully possible, but I would hope that it would raise some
    red flags with whoever is doing the swapping at Customer Care if some
    guy calls and activates a new phone, then calls in a few hours later and
    said he lost it and to reactivate his old phone. That would be a lot of
    trouble for someone to go through... all of which could probably be
    traced back to him via the ESN. Wouldn't it be prudent for providers to
    keep a log/database of who activates each individual ESN so malicious
    things like this can be punishable/traced?

    Eric




  9. #9
    Steven J Sobol
    Guest

    Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone

    Rico <[email protected]> wrote:
    > I'm engaged in a dispute with an idiot - He claims that,when bidding on a
    > phone on ebay,one should never expect the seller to provide you with the
    > ESN,as there are things a scam artist can do with it.
    > I say BS,and I wouldn't bid on a phone if the seller refused to provide the
    > ESN before the auction closed.
    > So is there any good reason for a seller not to disclose a phones ESN ?


    > I've sold a few phones on ebay,and listed the ESN right in the auction.


    I had exactly this situation: some of the eBay auctioneers selling the P300
    we were looking for provided ESNs in their auction listings, but the guy we
    bought from didn't for that reason (we bid on it anyhow because we decided to
    trust him). I called Sprint. The only way I'm told you can activate a used
    Sprint phone on your account is if the previous owner de-activated it, either
    by terminating service with Sprint or by replacing the phone with a new one.

    So your friend is wrong... UNLESS the phone is already de-activated (for
    example, if he already bought a new one).

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / [email protected]
    Domain Names, $9.95/yr, 24x7 service: http://DomainNames.JustThe.net/
    "someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
    slip covers." -adam brower * Hiroshima '45, Chernobyl '86, Windows 98/2000/2003



  10. #10
    Robert M.
    Guest

    Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Rico <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I'm engaged in a dispute with an idiot - He claims that,when bidding on a
    > phone on ebay,one should never expect the seller to provide you with the
    > ESN,as there are things a scam artist can do with it.
    > I say BS,and I wouldn't bid on a phone if the seller refused to provide the
    > ESN before the auction closed.
    > So is there any good reason for a seller not to disclose a phones ESN ?
    >
    > I've sold a few phones on ebay,and listed the ESN right in the auction.


    When I sold a phone on Ebay I didn't list the ESN or have anyone ask for
    it. I did guarantee that the buyer could activate it.



  11. #11
    TechGeek
    Guest

    Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone

    Rico <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > I'm engaged in a dispute with an idiot - He claims that,when bidding on a
    > phone on ebay,one should never expect the seller to provide you with the
    > ESN,as there are things a scam artist can do with it.
    > I say BS,and I wouldn't bid on a phone if the seller refused to provide the
    > ESN before the auction closed.
    > So is there any good reason for a seller not to disclose a phones ESN ?
    >
    > I've sold a few phones on ebay,and listed the ESN right in the auction.


    Hmm, posting the ESN in the auction itself may not be a good idea, but
    any good and honest seller would supply you with the ESN upon request.

    If I was bidding on a phone and the seller refused to give me the ESN,
    then I'd be very suspicious.

    But then again, if it's stolen, what's to stop them form supplying you
    with a good esn and ship you the bad esn?



  12. #12
    Rico
    Guest

    Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone

    [email protected] (TechGeek) wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > Rico <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    >> I'm engaged in a dispute with an idiot - He claims that,when bidding on
    >> a phone on ebay,one should never expect the seller to provide you with
    >> the ESN,as there are things a scam artist can do with it.
    >> I say BS,and I wouldn't bid on a phone if the seller refused to provide
    >> the ESN before the auction closed.
    >> So is there any good reason for a seller not to disclose a phones ESN ?
    >>
    >> I've sold a few phones on ebay,and listed the ESN right in the auction.

    >
    > Hmm, posting the ESN in the auction itself may not be a good idea, but
    > any good and honest seller would supply you with the ESN upon request.


    Well then ... why wouldn't it be a good idea ?
    Just a gut feeling ?

    >
    > If I was bidding on a phone and the seller refused to give me the ESN,
    > then I'd be very suspicious.
    >
    > But then again, if it's stolen, what's to stop them form supplying you
    > with a good esn and ship you the bad esn?
    >


    I agree,and mentioned that in another post in this thread.
    Only thing there is if they did supply you with a bogus good ESN for a stolen
    phone,you will have proof of their duplicity by simply saving the emails.
    For that reason,most cons would either not answer that request at all,or
    perhaps reply via an anonymous remailer - Either one of which should be
    grounds for suspicion.




  13. #13
    r2175
    Guest

    Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone



    Rico wrote:
    > [email protected] (TechGeek) wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    >
    >>Rico <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>news:<[email protected]>...
    >>
    >>>I'm engaged in a dispute with an idiot - He claims that,when bidding on
    >>>a phone on ebay,one should never expect the seller to provide you with
    >>>the ESN,as there are things a scam artist can do with it.
    >>>I say BS,and I wouldn't bid on a phone if the seller refused to provide
    >>>the ESN before the auction closed.
    >>>So is there any good reason for a seller not to disclose a phones ESN ?
    >>>
    >>>I've sold a few phones on ebay,and listed the ESN right in the auction.

    >>
    >>Hmm, posting the ESN in the auction itself may not be a good idea, but
    >>any good and honest seller would supply you with the ESN upon request.

    >
    >
    > Well then ... why wouldn't it be a good idea ?
    > Just a gut feeling ?
    >
    >
    >>If I was bidding on a phone and the seller refused to give me the ESN,
    >>then I'd be very suspicious.
    >>
    >>But then again, if it's stolen, what's to stop them form supplying you
    >>with a good esn and ship you the bad esn?
    >>

    >
    >
    > I agree,and mentioned that in another post in this thread.
    > Only thing there is if they did supply you with a bogus good ESN for a stolen
    > phone,you will have proof of their duplicity by simply saving the emails.
    > For that reason,most cons would either not answer that request at all,or
    > perhaps reply via an anonymous remailer - Either one of which should be
    > grounds for suspicion.
    >


    Agreed, long and short of it, if he won't give the esn he's not worth
    dealing with.
    Good call !




  14. #14
    plane
    Guest

    Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone

    "Robert M." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > Rico <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > I'm engaged in a dispute with an idiot - He claims that,when bidding on a
    > > phone on ebay,one should never expect the seller to provide you with the
    > > ESN,as there are things a scam artist can do with it.
    > > I say BS,and I wouldn't bid on a phone if the seller refused to provide the
    > > ESN before the auction closed.
    > > So is there any good reason for a seller not to disclose a phones ESN ?
    > >
    > > I've sold a few phones on ebay,and listed the ESN right in the auction.

    >
    > When I sold a phone on Ebay I didn't list the ESN or have anyone ask for
    > it. I did guarantee that the buyer could activate it.



    i have bought and sold numerous phones on ebay. Check for lots of
    positive feedback--I have been ask questions and have responded to
    questions, ask for and received esn's---If your seller is an idiot
    now, he will be even more so if you have trouble with the phone.
    Check that feedback.



  15. #15
    TechGeek
    Guest

    Re: Providing ESN for an ebay phone

    Rico <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > >
    > > Hmm, posting the ESN in the auction itself may not be a good idea, but
    > > any good and honest seller would supply you with the ESN upon request.

    >
    > Well then ... why wouldn't it be a good idea ?
    > Just a gut feeling ?
    >

    While the intentions are good, it leaves the ESN out for anyone to
    mess with it (activate it, put it into fraud status) and screw you and
    your buyer. I'd suggest leaving a line in there to say "feel free to
    send me an email asking for the ESN" that way you're most likely to
    get serious people looking at the ESN, since a lot of these people who
    just want to cause trouble are rather lazy.


    > >
    > > If I was bidding on a phone and the seller refused to give me the ESN,
    > > then I'd be very suspicious.
    > >
    > > But then again, if it's stolen, what's to stop them form supplying you
    > > with a good esn and ship you the bad esn?
    > >

    >
    > I agree,and mentioned that in another post in this thread.
    > Only thing there is if they did supply you with a bogus good ESN for a stolen
    > phone,you will have proof of their duplicity by simply saving the emails.
    > For that reason,most cons would either not answer that request at all,or
    > perhaps reply via an anonymous remailer - Either one of which should be
    > grounds for suspicion.


    True, but I have seen complaints about similar situations, my only
    fallback would be if they do email you the ESN, or have it in the
    auction, keep it, either print out the auction with a date stamp, or
    save the email so you can verify it and then argue it later, that may
    be your only chance of salvation in a situation like this.



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