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  1. #1
    Floyd I Johnson
    Guest
    I saw an ad on TV last night for the new Fair&Flexible plan, which might
    work for those that have fluctuating usage from month to month. For myself,
    I noted that it would cost $15 more($65) if I used my full normal allotment
    of 600 minutes for $50.
    I'll wait until I can get a retention deal that will save me money and also
    allow me to also keep my FIMF(first incomming minute free).





    See More: New Plans: Fair & Flexible




  2. #2
    Bob Smith
    Guest

    Re: New Plans: Fair & Flexible


    "Floyd I Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > I saw an ad on TV last night for the new Fair&Flexible plan, which might
    > work for those that have fluctuating usage from month to month. For

    myself,
    > I noted that it would cost $15 more($65) if I used my full normal

    allotment
    > of 600 minutes for $50.
    > I'll wait until I can get a retention deal that will save me money and

    also
    > allow me to also keep my FIMF(first incomming minute free).
    >

    The key word you said above Floyd is "if". This F & F plan is not designed
    for those who regularly do a high number of minutes each billing cycle. It's
    designed for low minute users, who will occasionally go over their monthly
    allotment of minutes and won't have to spend a whole lot more money with
    overage expenses.

    Bob





  3. #3
    O/Siris
    Guest

    Re: Fair & Flexible

    In article <[email protected]>,=20
    [email protected] says...
    > If you have never had a wireless phone before, then starting out=20
    > with the flexible plan for a few months would let you gauge your usage.=

    =20
    > Based on that usage you can determine if your monthly usage is stable=

    =20
    > or varies frequently. If it is stable, then the corresponding F & C=20
    > plan would be good. If is is quite variable, then the flexible would be=

    =20
    > better. It all boils down to what type of plan fits what you find your=

    =20
    > calling patterns to be.
    > Someone who already has a wireless phone, probably knows by now=20
    > what his usage volumes are and can switch to Sprint PCS and start with=20
    > the Sprint PCS plan that is right for him from the beginning.
    >=20
    >=20


    Remember, too, that SPCS now has the "Right Plan Promise." Which=20
    means that you can sign up for a plan and change it to another within=20
    90 days with a guarantee that there will be no additional commitment.

    Unless, of course, the plan has a different requirement. And since=20
    the rebates on our phones require a two-year commitment, and no plan=20
    has more than a 2 year requirement, you should simply be able to swap=20
    plans.

    --=20
    R=D8=DF
    O/Siris
    I work for Sprint PCS
    I *don't* speak for them



  4. #4
    Daniel Tso
    Guest

    Re: Fair & Flexible

    Yah, I still can't decide whether F&F is actually a useful plan offering that
    *many* people will benefit from, or whether it is just another stupid
    marketing gimmick that is of no real value. Certainly it seems to only
    make to a narrow range of customers...

    In any case, when this F&F schemed was first talked about, it was touted,
    at least by some, as Sprint's answer to Cingular's RollOver feature -- indeed
    it was first rumored that Sprint had decided to offer a rollover feature. Then
    it was stated that Sprint had come up with something BETTER.

    So who thinks that F&F is or will be a successful offering to compete with
    RollOver ? Does anyone think that F&F is as desireable as RollOver ?

    To me these two don't even address the same market: F&F as pointed out
    here, only makes sense for the low-volume user, whereas RollOver is a feature
    only offered for the higher volume plans from Cingular and indeed is
    an incentive to switch to a more costly plan. My own read of the market is
    that RollOver is much more appealing to the customer (regardless of
    whether is actually makes any difference in the end), and that F&F
    doesn't even begin to offer any market competition to RollOver, contrary
    to the originally rumored premise.

    In article <[email protected]>, Sharon <[email protected]> wrote:
    >That's true if the usage stays pretty low volume. However, if I go with
    >the 500 minutes, which I am also considering, and used almost all of
    >those 500 minutes it would cost me $15 more on the Fair & Flexible Plan.
    >


    >> Duh ??? It makes no sense to go with the 300 minute Free and Clear. If
    >> you go over your 300 minutes, its 40 cents per min, talk 10 min = $4. Fair
    >> and Flexible costs you $2.50 for 25 min. If you go over by 50 min on F&C,
    >> costs you $20.00 vs $5.00 for F&F. A no brainer.




  5. #5
    O/Siris
    Guest

    Re: Fair & Flexible

    In article <[email protected]>,=20
    [email protected] says...
    > So who thinks that F&F is or will be a successful offering to compete wit=

    h
    > RollOver ? Does anyone think that F&F is as desireable as RollOver ?
    >=20
    > To me these two don't even address the same market: F&F as pointed out
    > here, only makes sense for the low-volume user, whereas RollOver is a fea=

    ture
    > only offered for the higher volume plans from Cingular and indeed is=20
    > an incentive to switch to a more costly plan. My own read of the market i=

    s
    > that RollOver is much more appealing to the customer (regardless of
    > whether is actually makes any difference in the end), and that F&F
    > doesn't even begin to offer any market competition to RollOver, contrary
    > to the originally rumored premise.
    >=20


    I think it's got potential. It may fail, and I certainly am in no=20
    position to determine that. I think it's more than just low-volume=20
    appeal. There has to be a two-pronged "attack", so to speak.

    If you're on a plan that rolls over month after month after month,=20
    you're on too big a plan. And if you're having to "squeeze" into the=20
    minutes available each month, then you're on too small a plan. Now,=20
    instead of having to guess how many minutes you'll need each month,=20
    here's a plan that gives you an option.

    Now, maybe that option isn't the right answer. But I will defend it=20
    as, at least, an attempt to answer that need, and I think it's an=20
    interesting one.

    --=20
    R=D8=DF
    O/Siris
    I work for Sprint PCS
    I *don't* speak for them



  6. #6
    Daniel Tso
    Guest

    Re: Fair & Flexible

    In article <[email protected]>, O/Siris <[email protected]întpcs.com> wrote:
    >In article <[email protected]>,=20
    >[email protected] says...
    >> So who thinks that F&F is or will be a successful offering to compete wit=

    >h
    >> RollOver ? Does anyone think that F&F is as desireable as RollOver ?
    >>=20
    >> To me these two don't even address the same market: F&F as pointed out
    >> here, only makes sense for the low-volume user, whereas RollOver is a fea=

    >ture
    >> only offered for the higher volume plans from Cingular and indeed is=20
    >> an incentive to switch to a more costly plan. My own read of the market i=

    >s
    >> that RollOver is much more appealing to the customer (regardless of
    >> whether is actually makes any difference in the end), and that F&F
    >> doesn't even begin to offer any market competition to RollOver, contrary
    >> to the originally rumored premise.
    >>=20

    >
    >I think it's got potential. It may fail, and I certainly am in no=20
    >position to determine that. I think it's more than just low-volume=20
    >appeal. There has to be a two-pronged "attack", so to speak.
    >
    >If you're on a plan that rolls over month after month after month,=20
    >you're on too big a plan. And if you're having to "squeeze" into the=20
    >minutes available each month, then you're on too small a plan. Now,=20
    >instead of having to guess how many minutes you'll need each month,=20
    >here's a plan that gives you an option.


    Okay, let's take your above statement as the intended market and benefit of
    F&F.

    Person A uses an annual mean of 1000 min/month, with a std dev of 500
    min/month (computed annually). Person B uses a mean of 500min/month,
    with a std dev of 300min/month, and Person C uses a mean of 2000min/month
    with a std dev of 1000min/month.

    My contention is that F&F is not financially beneficial for any of these
    scenerios when compared with the standard F&C plans EVEN THOUGH these
    people would have to choose a F&C that has monthly minutes equal to their
    (mean + std dev) usage (or more, perhaps even (mean + 2*stddev).

    Whereas a Rollover option would allow all of these people to simply choose a
    monthly plan roughly equal to their mean usage.




  7. #7
    Røbert M.
    Guest

    Re: Fair & Flexible

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] (Daniel Tso) wrote:

    > Okay, let's take your above statement as the intended market and benefit of
    > F&F.
    >
    > Person A uses an annual mean of 1000 min/month, with a std dev of 500
    > min/month (computed annually). Person B uses a mean of 500min/month,
    > with a std dev of 300min/month, and Person C uses a mean of 2000min/month
    > with a std dev of 1000min/month.
    >
    > My contention is that F&F is not financially beneficial for any of these
    > scenerios when compared with the standard F&C plans EVEN THOUGH these
    > people would have to choose a F&C that has monthly minutes equal to their
    > (mean + std dev) usage (or more, perhaps even (mean + 2*stddev).
    >
    > Whereas a Rollover option would allow all of these people to simply choose a
    > monthly plan roughly equal to their mean usage.


    So you mean Cingular's plans are more reasonable for most people?



  8. #8
    Thomas T. Veldhouse
    Guest

    Re: Fair & Flexible

    "R?bert M." <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > So you mean Cingular's plans are more reasonable for most people?


    So be it ... but F&FA is not the only plan a user can choose. Further,
    even if I wanted too ... I could not choose a Cingular plan, as they
    don't currently own towers in Minnesota [until the buyout of AT&T WS is
    complete].

    --

    Thomas T. Veldhouse
    Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1




  9. #9
    Jerome Zelinske
    Guest

    Re: Fair & Flexible

    I think most people do not have that high a variable in monthly
    usage. And I think that most people starting wireless service do not
    know what there usage will be, so starting with the flexible plan for
    2-3 months can be helpful. One does not have to wait until the end of
    the Advantage Agreement to change plans.


    Daniel Tso wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>, O/Siris <[email protected]întpcs.com> wrote:
    >
    >>In article <[email protected]>,=20
    >>[email protected] says...
    >>
    >>>So who thinks that F&F is or will be a successful offering to compete wit=

    >>
    >>h
    >>
    >>>RollOver ? Does anyone think that F&F is as desireable as RollOver ?
    >>>=20
    >>>To me these two don't even address the same market: F&F as pointed out
    >>>here, only makes sense for the low-volume user, whereas RollOver is a fea=

    >>
    >>ture
    >>
    >>>only offered for the higher volume plans from Cingular and indeed is=20
    >>>an incentive to switch to a more costly plan. My own read of the market i=

    >>
    >>s
    >>
    >>>that RollOver is much more appealing to the customer (regardless of
    >>>whether is actually makes any difference in the end), and that F&F
    >>>doesn't even begin to offer any market competition to RollOver, contrary
    >>>to the originally rumored premise.
    >>>=20

    >>
    >>I think it's got potential. It may fail, and I certainly am in no=20
    >>position to determine that. I think it's more than just low-volume=20
    >>appeal. There has to be a two-pronged "attack", so to speak.
    >>
    >>If you're on a plan that rolls over month after month after month,=20
    >>you're on too big a plan. And if you're having to "squeeze" into the=20
    >>minutes available each month, then you're on too small a plan. Now,=20
    >>instead of having to guess how many minutes you'll need each month,=20
    >>here's a plan that gives you an option.

    >
    >
    > Okay, let's take your above statement as the intended market and benefit of
    > F&F.
    >
    > Person A uses an annual mean of 1000 min/month, with a std dev of 500
    > min/month (computed annually). Person B uses a mean of 500min/month,
    > with a std dev of 300min/month, and Person C uses a mean of 2000min/month
    > with a std dev of 1000min/month.
    >
    > My contention is that F&F is not financially beneficial for any of these
    > scenerios when compared with the standard F&C plans EVEN THOUGH these
    > people would have to choose a F&C that has monthly minutes equal to their
    > (mean + std dev) usage (or more, perhaps even (mean + 2*stddev).
    >
    > Whereas a Rollover option would allow all of these people to simply choose a
    > monthly plan roughly equal to their mean usage.
    >





  10. #10
    Røbert M.
    Guest

    Re: Fair & Flexible

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Jerome Zelinske <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I think most people do not have that high a variable in monthly
    > usage. And I think that most people starting wireless service do not
    > know what there usage will be, so starting with the flexible plan for
    > 2-3 months can be helpful. One does not have to wait until the end of
    > the Advantage Agreement to change plans.


    But after 3 months with SprintPCS new policies, any plan change requires
    a new 2 year agreement.



  11. #11
    Daniel Tso
    Guest

    Re: Fair & Flexible

    In article <[email protected]>, "Røbert M." <[email protected]> wrote:
    >In article <[email protected]>,
    > [email protected] (Daniel Tso) wrote:
    >
    >> Okay, let's take your above statement as the intended market and benefit of
    >> F&F.
    >>
    >> Person A uses an annual mean of 1000 min/month, with a std dev of 500
    >> min/month (computed annually). Person B uses a mean of 500min/month,
    >> with a std dev of 300min/month, and Person C uses a mean of 2000min/month
    >> with a std dev of 1000min/month.
    >>
    >> My contention is that F&F is not financially beneficial for any of these
    >> scenerios when compared with the standard F&C plans EVEN THOUGH these
    >> people would have to choose a F&C that has monthly minutes equal to their
    >> (mean + std dev) usage (or more, perhaps even (mean + 2*stddev).
    >>
    >> Whereas a Rollover option would allow all of these people to simply choose a
    >> monthly plan roughly equal to their mean usage.

    >
    >So you mean Cingular's plans are more reasonable for most people?


    This discussion was NOT about Sprint vs Cingular. It was about whether F&F is
    an effective competitive response to Rollover and meets the goals of offering
    an attractive option for those customers that need a plan that is "fair and
    flexible", i.e. won't gouge you if your usage pattern is highly variable from
    month to month. My contention is that F&F fails on these counts, that, as
    implemented, it only makes sense for a very small group, roughly those who
    mean usage is around 350min with a variance of around 50-100, and the original
    expectation, that F&F would be BETTER than Rollover is simply not met.



  12. #12
    Daniel Tso
    Guest

    Re: Fair & Flexible

    In article <[email protected]>, Jerome Zelinske <[email protected]> wrote:
    > I think most people do not have that high a variable in monthly
    >usage.


    If this is true and Sprint were really sincere about eliminating the penalty
    for customers not being able to correctly guess their monthly as their current
    advertising suggests, then:
    1) implementing Rollover would not hurt them at all and would help those
    customers (few as you suggest) that DO have highly variabe usage,
    2) they should eliminate the $0.40 overage charges and simply treat the
    plans as "minimum usage commitments" rather than buckets of minutes.
    That is, if I buy into 500min at $40 (8 cents/min), and I go over 500min,
    I continue to be charged at 8 cents/min for the overage, not $0.40.

    > And I think that most people starting wireless service do not
    >know what there usage will be, so starting with the flexible plan for
    >2-3 months can be helpful.


    That point would be valid if F&F scales reasonably for higher usage, but it
    does not. A new customer who doesn't know what his usage will be, but it
    will be somewhere between 1000-1500 mins, is TOTALLY not served by
    F&F. Only customers "who don't know" in the 300-500 range would find
    F&F even only as a starter plan.



  13. #13
    Røbert M.
    Guest

    Re: Fair & Flexible

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] (Daniel Tso) wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "Røbert M." <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >In article <[email protected]>,
    > > [email protected] (Daniel Tso) wrote:
    > >
    > >> Okay, let's take your above statement as the intended market and benefit
    > >> of
    > >> F&F.
    > >>
    > >> Person A uses an annual mean of 1000 min/month, with a std dev of 500
    > >> min/month (computed annually). Person B uses a mean of 500min/month,
    > >> with a std dev of 300min/month, and Person C uses a mean of 2000min/month
    > >> with a std dev of 1000min/month.
    > >>
    > >> My contention is that F&F is not financially beneficial for any of these
    > >> scenerios when compared with the standard F&C plans EVEN THOUGH these
    > >> people would have to choose a F&C that has monthly minutes equal to their
    > >> (mean + std dev) usage (or more, perhaps even (mean + 2*stddev).
    > >>
    > >> Whereas a Rollover option would allow all of these people to simply choose
    > >> a
    > >> monthly plan roughly equal to their mean usage.

    > >
    > >So you mean Cingular's plans are more reasonable for most people?

    >
    > This discussion was NOT about Sprint vs Cingular. It was about whether F&F is
    > an effective competitive response to Rollover and meets the goals of offering
    > an attractive option for those customers that need a plan that is "fair and
    > flexible", i.e. won't gouge you if your usage pattern is highly variable from
    > month to month. My contention is that F&F fails on these counts, that, as
    > implemented, it only makes sense for a very small group, roughly those who
    > mean usage is around 350min with a variance of around 50-100, and the
    > original
    > expectation, that F&F would be BETTER than Rollover is simply not met.


    So again, if F&F fails, and Rollover is better, then you must be saying
    Cingular's plans are better than Sprint's especially since Rollover is
    available at any base rate plan, where as F&F you must start at 300
    minutes.



  14. #14
    Bob Smith
    Guest

    Re: Fair & Flexible


    "Daniel Tso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    <snipped>

    > This discussion was NOT about Sprint vs Cingular. It was about whether F&F

    is
    > an effective competitive response to Rollover and meets the goals of

    offering
    > an attractive option for those customers that need a plan that is "fair

    and
    > flexible", i.e. won't gouge you if your usage pattern is highly variable

    from
    > month to month. My contention is that F&F fails on these counts, that, as
    > implemented, it only makes sense for a very small group, roughly those who
    > mean usage is around 350min with a variance of around 50-100, and the

    original
    > expectation, that F&F would be BETTER than Rollover is simply not met.


    I've noticed that you've posted a few times the comment about those who
    would benefit by using the F & F plan is a very small group. My question to
    you is ... how do you know?

    Do you have the statistical breakout on how many folks who subscribe to SPCS
    as to their monthly usage? I haven't seen any numbers announced by SPCS,
    save for those numbers on what the average subscription cost of $60/mo. are,
    and that figure includes corporate accounts as well.

    IMHO and without any stats or figures to back me up, the 300 min/mo. crowd
    is a lot larger than what you are stating. Why else would SPCS add this plan
    to their service?

    Bob





  15. #15
    Steven J Sobol
    Guest

    Re: Fair & Flexible

    "R?bert M." <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> I think most people do not have that high a variable in monthly
    >> usage. And I think that most people starting wireless service do not
    >> know what there usage will be, so starting with the flexible plan for
    >> 2-3 months can be helpful. One does not have to wait until the end of
    >> the Advantage Agreement to change plans.

    >
    > But after 3 months with SprintPCS new policies, any plan change requires
    > a new 2 year agreement.


    I actually thought this was the case, but I've been told no - I
    *specifically* asked when activating my new phone, because I may do a
    local plan to save money, and then flip to F&C when I get ready to travel.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / [email protected]
    PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
    Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.



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