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  1. #106
    .Philip.
    Guest

    Re: Sprint Nextel Merger: Employee Benefits and Bashing the Messenger

    Steve Sobol wrote:
    > D.J. Osborn wrote:
    >
    >> If I am correctly reading the coverage-area maps, then there's no
    >> question that it's Venison.

    >
    > I could be a pain in the ass and point out that the Local plans would
    > be the "basic" plans. But I won't. I have never argued, however,
    > that counting roaming partners, SPCS has better coverage than AC,
    > because I've never believed that to be correct.


    Steve: I think your septic tank has been leaching into your drinking water
    again.
    --

    - Philip





    See More: Sprint Nextel Merger: Employee Benefits and Bashing the Messenger




  2. #107
    Steve Sobol
    Guest

    Re: Sprint Nextel Merger: Employee Benefits and Bashing the Messenger

    D.J. Osborn wrote:


    > You could--and it still wouln't make any difference in manya areas. In my
    > area of Ohio, the local VZW plan coverage is far superior to the local
    > Sprint plan coverage.


    Which part of Ohio?

    I'm *from* Cleveland. Coverage in Northeast Ohio depends very much on what part
    of Northeast Ohio you're talking about. Cleveland is equally well-covered by
    both. Some of the outlying areas east of Cleveland are covered much better by
    Alltel, Verizon and T-Mobile, particularly central Geauga County, where my
    parents live. OTOH, Ashtabula, Trumbull and Mahoning counties are better
    covered by Sprint. Alltel provides extended-network roaming in Mahoning and
    Trumbull because Verizon doesn't have a network there, and they do just fine,
    mostly. Sprint covers Youngstown and Warren natively and AFAIK does a good job
    too, as well as heading up towards Ashtabula. Sprint does a much better job in
    Ashtabula and northern Trumbull than Verizon. Verizon's native coverage sucks
    ass in Ashtabula, especially as you go north of US 20 towards the lake. I used
    to go out there and have to try to force my phone to roam on Sprint to be able
    to place and receive calls.

    > You've just tried--repeatedly--to cloud the issue by claming that partners
    > that are *free* (no roaming charges) on the VZW America's Choice plans don't
    > count--and should be ignored when discussing the coverage issue.


    What I SAID is "let's compare apples to apples."

    Free & Clear is Sprint-only, no roaming charges, .50/minute everywhere else

    Free & Clear America is Sprint plus any roaming partner they have an agreement
    with; no roaming charges.

    America's Choice is probably closer to F&C than F&CA in terms of where you get
    to call for free or not, but it's not the same.

    > Give it up, Steve. Your feeble attempts have once again been exposed.


    I just get tired of hearing the BS. I agree that Verizon has a good network.
    I'd even agree that it's the most comprehensive in most places. However, ISTM
    that treating the entire AC network as one network is misleading. I was a
    Verizon customer for four years and for at least 1-2 of those years I was on
    AC, so obviously I think it's a worthwhile calling plan to use. And I did
    enjoy, for example, driving to DC in '02 for a wedding and being able to make
    "free" calls on US Cellular in WV and MD when I was nowhere near a Verizon tower.

    However, I've seen the other side too. Did I mention Little Rock, AR anywhere
    in this thread? You roam Extended on Alltel if you have AC. Sure, it doesn't
    cost anything extra. However, *nothing* works. Of course I don't expect stuff
    like VM notifications and data calls to work, I don't expect the star-codes to
    work either (not even *611), but come on, Caller ID should at least work!
    Alltel is in bed with Verizon as far as roaming is concerned, and not only
    that, Little Rock is Alltel's corporate home, so you think they'd be extra
    careful to make sure everything works there. But nothing worked last year when
    I drove through Little Rock.

    Forget FREE - I want WORKING. If I wasn't willing to pay a little more for a
    high-quality network I would never have signed on with Verizon in the first
    place. Verizon and Nextel are the two highest-price nationwide carriers in the
    country. And that's OK; I've never been willing to sacrifice quality to save a
    few cents. The problem is this: when you have chunks of the country that you
    don't service yourself, and you effectively outsource that service to someone
    else, you lose control over that part of your "nationwide network."

    Sprint has had its share of misleading marketing too. (Anyone remember "The
    Clear Alternative to Cellular?" AirTouch and GTE Mobilnet both had digital in
    Cleveland at least six months before Sprint PCS launched.) But, if you'll
    pardon the pun, at least one thing rings true - the SPCS "nationwide network"
    is all one network owned by one company. If I'm in Little Rock on Verizon and
    have problems, Verizon will say "we can't do anything for you." If I'm in
    Little Rock and on Sprint, I'm *on Sprint's network* and can hold them
    accountable for problems.

    Now do you understand why I'm making such a big deal about this?

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / [email protected]
    PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
    Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.



  3. #108
    Steve Sobol
    Guest

    Re: Sprint Nextel Merger: Employee Benefits and Bashing the Messenger

    ..Philip. wrote:

    > Steve: I think your septic tank has been leaching into your drinking water
    > again.


    *gag*

    And here I thought I was drinking lemonade.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / [email protected]
    PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
    Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.



  4. #109
    D.J. Osborn
    Guest

    Re: Sprint Nextel Merger: Employee Benefits and Bashing the Messenger

    "Steve Sobol" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > D.J. Osborn wrote:
    >
    >
    > > You could--and it still wouln't make any difference in manya areas. In

    my
    > > area of Ohio, the local VZW plan coverage is far superior to the local
    > > Sprint plan coverage.

    >
    > Which part of Ohio?


    DAyton.

    > I'm *from* Cleveland. Coverage in Northeast Ohio depends very much on what

    part
    > of Northeast Ohio you're talking about. Cleveland is equally well-covered

    by
    > both. Some of the outlying areas east of Cleveland are covered much better

    by
    > Alltel, Verizon and T-Mobile, particularly central Geauga County, where my
    > parents live. OTOH, Ashtabula, Trumbull and Mahoning counties are better
    > covered by Sprint. Alltel provides extended-network roaming in Mahoning

    and
    > Trumbull because Verizon doesn't have a network there, and they do just

    fine,
    > mostly. Sprint covers Youngstown and Warren natively and AFAIK does a good

    job
    > too, as well as heading up towards Ashtabula. Sprint does a much better

    job in
    > Ashtabula and northern Trumbull than Verizon. Verizon's native coverage

    sucks
    > ass in Ashtabula, especially as you go north of US 20 towards the lake. I

    used
    > to go out there and have to try to force my phone to roam on Sprint to be

    able
    > to place and receive calls.


    As I stated: In *my* area in Ohio VZW's coverage is far superior to
    Sprint's. That's why my son lets his Sprint friend use his VZW phone when
    the friend gets frustrated when his Sprint phone is useless.

    > > You've just tried--repeatedly--to cloud the issue by claming that

    partners
    > > that are *free* (no roaming charges) on the VZW America's Choice plans

    don't
    > > count--and should be ignored when discussing the coverage issue.

    >
    > What I SAID is "let's compare apples to apples."


    That's what you *said*--but it's not what you *did*. You kept ignoring a
    significant portion of the America's Choice network when comparing the VZW
    AC plans to Sprint's no-additional-charge-for-extra-coverage plans.

    > Free & Clear is Sprint-only, no roaming charges, .50/minute everywhere

    else
    >
    > Free & Clear America is Sprint plus any roaming partner they have an

    agreement
    > with; no roaming charges.
    >
    > America's Choice is probably closer to F&C than F&CA in terms of where you

    get
    > to call for free or not, but it's not the same.


    Nobody said it *was* exactly the same.

    > > Give it up, Steve. Your feeble attempts have once again been exposed.

    >
    > I just get tired of hearing the BS.


    Then quite writing BS.

    > I agree that Verizon has a good network.
    > I'd even agree that it's the most comprehensive in most places. However,

    ISTM
    > that treating the entire AC network as one network is misleading.


    That's nonsense. It's all one network as far as voice coverage is concerned.

    > I was a
    > Verizon customer for four years and for at least 1-2 of those years I was

    on
    > AC, so obviously I think it's a worthwhile calling plan to use. And I did
    > enjoy, for example, driving to DC in '02 for a wedding and being able to

    make
    > "free" calls on US Cellular in WV and MD when I was nowhere near a Verizon

    tower.
    >
    > However, I've seen the other side too. Did I mention Little Rock, AR

    anywhere
    > in this thread? You roam Extended on Alltel if you have AC. Sure, it

    doesn't
    > cost anything extra. However, *nothing* works. Of course I don't expect

    stuff
    > like VM notifications and data calls to work, I don't expect the

    star-codes to
    > work either (not even *611), but come on, Caller ID should at least work!


    Are you able to make and receive calls at no additional charge? If so, then
    whining about whether or not you get caller ID is just that: It's whining.

    > Alltel is in bed with Verizon as far as roaming is concerned, and not only
    > that, Little Rock is Alltel's corporate home, so you think they'd be extra
    > careful to make sure everything works there. But nothing worked last year

    when
    > I drove through Little Rock.
    >
    > Forget FREE - I want WORKING.


    Are you able to make and receive calls at no additional charge? If so, then
    whining about whether or not you get caller ID is just that: It's whining.

    > If I wasn't willing to pay a little more for a
    > high-quality network I would never have signed on with Verizon in the

    first
    > place. Verizon and Nextel are the two highest-price nationwide carriers in

    the
    > country. And that's OK; I've never been willing to sacrifice quality to

    save a
    > few cents. The problem is this: when you have chunks of the country that

    you
    > don't service yourself, and you effectively outsource that service to

    someone
    > else, you lose control over that part of your "nationwide network."


    Are you able to make and receive calls at no additional charge? If so, then
    whining about whether or not you get caller ID is just that: It's whining.

    > Sprint has had its share of misleading marketing too. (Anyone remember

    "The
    > Clear Alternative to Cellular?" AirTouch and GTE Mobilnet both had digital

    in
    > Cleveland at least six months before Sprint PCS launched.) But, if you'll
    > pardon the pun, at least one thing rings true - the SPCS "nationwide

    network"
    > is all one network owned by one company. If I'm in Little Rock on Verizon

    and
    > have problems, Verizon will say "we can't do anything for you." If I'm in
    > Little Rock and on Sprint, I'm *on Sprint's network* and can hold them
    > accountable for problems.
    >
    > Now do you understand why I'm making such a big deal about this?


    I always have understood. You can't stand the fact that the overall coverage
    on VZW AC plans is better than Sprint's coverage on their
    no-additional-cost-for-better-coverage plans, and so you lame excuses to
    claim that Sprint is better. If Sprint works better for you, then that's
    great, and I have no disagreement with you. However, if you falsely claim
    that coverage on VZW's AC plans is significantly less than in it, then I'll
    point out your false statements every time you make them.

    --
    D.J., N8DO; FMCA 147762
    dj[underscore]osborn at yahoo dot com





  5. #110
    Joseph
    Guest

    Re: Sprint Nextel Merger: Employee Benefits and Bashing the Messenger

    On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 13:52:09 GMT, "D.J. Osborn"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >If I am correctly reading the coverage-area maps, then there's no question
    >that it's Venison.


    I think you're mistaken it's not Venison it's Elk.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -




  6. #111
    Steve Sobol
    Guest

    Re: Sprint Nextel Merger: Employee Benefits and Bashing the Messenger

    D.J. Osborn wrote:

    > Are you able to make and receive calls at no additional charge? If so, then
    > whining about whether or not you get caller ID is just that: It's whining.


    The call quality wasn't that wonderful, either. I only tried a couple calls.
    The phone was relatively new (a Kyo 2325) and it worked fine in Cleveland.
    Rather choppy. Hard to understand the guy on the other line.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / [email protected]
    PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
    Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.



  7. #112
    David S
    Guest

    Re: Sprint Nextel Merger: Employee Benefits and Bashing the Messenger

    On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 10:52:57 -0800, Steve Sobol <[email protected]> chose
    to add this to the great equation of life, the universe, and everything:

    >D.J. Osborn wrote:
    >
    >> You've just tried--repeatedly--to cloud the issue by claming that partners
    >> that are *free* (no roaming charges) on the VZW America's Choice plans don't
    >> count--and should be ignored when discussing the coverage issue.

    >
    >What I SAID is "let's compare apples to apples."
    >
    >Free & Clear is Sprint-only, no roaming charges, .50/minute everywhere else
    >
    >Free & Clear America is Sprint plus any roaming partner they have an agreement
    >with; no roaming charges.
    >
    >America's Choice is probably closer to F&C than F&CA in terms of where you get
    >to call for free or not, but it's not the same.
    >
    >> Give it up, Steve. Your feeble attempts have once again been exposed.

    >
    >I just get tired of hearing the BS. I agree that Verizon has a good network.
    >I'd even agree that it's the most comprehensive in most places. However, ISTM
    >that treating the entire AC network as one network is misleading. I was a
    >Verizon customer for four years and for at least 1-2 of those years I was on
    >AC, so obviously I think it's a worthwhile calling plan to use. And I did
    >enjoy, for example, driving to DC in '02 for a wedding and being able to make
    >"free" calls on US Cellular in WV and MD when I was nowhere near a Verizon tower.
    >
    >However, I've seen the other side too. Did I mention Little Rock, AR anywhere
    >in this thread? You roam Extended on Alltel if you have AC. Sure, it doesn't
    >cost anything extra. However, *nothing* works. Of course I don't expect stuff
    >like VM notifications and data calls to work, I don't expect the star-codes to
    >work either (not even *611), but come on, Caller ID should at least work!
    >Alltel is in bed with Verizon as far as roaming is concerned, and not only
    >that, Little Rock is Alltel's corporate home, so you think they'd be extra
    >careful to make sure everything works there. But nothing worked last year when
    >I drove through Little Rock.
    >
    >Forget FREE - I want WORKING. If I wasn't willing to pay a little more for a
    >high-quality network I would never have signed on with Verizon in the first
    >place. Verizon and Nextel are the two highest-price nationwide carriers in the
    >country. And that's OK; I've never been willing to sacrifice quality to save a
    >few cents. The problem is this: when you have chunks of the country that you
    >don't service yourself, and you effectively outsource that service to someone
    >else, you lose control over that part of your "nationwide network."
    >
    >Sprint has had its share of misleading marketing too. (Anyone remember "The
    >Clear Alternative to Cellular?" AirTouch and GTE Mobilnet both had digital in
    >Cleveland at least six months before Sprint PCS launched.) But, if you'll
    >pardon the pun, at least one thing rings true - the SPCS "nationwide network"
    >is all one network owned by one company. If I'm in Little Rock on Verizon and
    >have problems, Verizon will say "we can't do anything for you." If I'm in
    >Little Rock and on Sprint, I'm *on Sprint's network* and can hold them
    >accountable for problems.
    >
    >Now do you understand why I'm making such a big deal about this?


    Yes, I do now. I did not realize that Sprint doesn't allow ANY roaming
    without extra charge a la AC.

    I'm still not sure I place as much importance on it as you, but I
    understand where you're coming from.

    --
    David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
    http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
    Remove the naughty bit from my address to reply
    Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
    "[In Amsterdam] you can see businesses openly selling sex, drugs and --
    most shocking of all, to Americans -- French fries with mayonnaise."
    - Dave Barry




  8. #113
    Steve Sobol
    Guest

    Re: Sprint Nextel Merger: Employee Benefits and Bashing the Messenger

    David S wrote:

    > Yes, I do now. I did not realize that Sprint doesn't allow ANY roaming
    > without extra charge a la AC.


    That's correct. Your two choices are Free and Clear or Free and Clear America.
    The America option costs $5 per month and allows you to use up to 50% of your
    airtime roaming on any domestic network with which Sprint has a roaming
    agreement, without being charged for roaming.

    Fair and Flexible and F&F America have the exact same coverage. The difference
    is in how overages are billed.

    > I'm still not sure I place as much importance on it as you, but I
    > understand where you're coming from.


    Yes, and lots of people WILL disagree with me, and that's OK.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / [email protected]
    PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
    Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.



  9. #114
    Tropical Haven
    Guest

    Re: Sprint Nextel Merger: Employee Benefits and Bashing the Messenger

    > Yes, I do now. I did not realize that Sprint doesn't allow ANY roaming
    > without extra charge a la AC.
    >
    > I'm still not sure I place as much importance on it as you, but I
    > understand where you're coming from.


    Well, Verizon does actually charge extra for AC. It's built into the
    plan. Ever notice that North America's Choice is more expensive than
    America's Choice, and AC is generally more expensive than "Local Digital
    Choice"? Seems that the "roam for free" on AC is actually "roam for
    [monthly] fee"?

    TH




  10. #115
    Steve Sobol
    Guest

    Re: Sprint Nextel Merger: Employee Benefits and Bashing the Messenger

    Tropical Haven wrote:

    >> I'm still not sure I place as much importance on it as you, but I
    >> understand where you're coming from.

    >
    > Well, Verizon does actually charge extra for AC. It's built into the
    > plan. Ever notice that North America's Choice is more expensive than
    > America's Choice, and AC is generally more expensive than "Local Digital
    > Choice"? Seems that the "roam for free" on AC is actually "roam for
    > [monthly] fee"?


    I think what D.J. Osborn and others were referring to was the lack of
    per-minute roaming fees.

    Yes, AC will be more expensive than LDC. AC is potentially more expensive to
    offer to customers, because Verizon may have to eat roaming charges that (per
    the rules of the calling plan) can't be charged to the customer. With National
    Single-Rate and North America's Choice, such a situation becomes more likely
    due to the fact that Verizon will *never* charge roaming anywhere in the US.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / [email protected]
    PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
    Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.



  11. #116
    David S
    Guest

    Re: Sprint Nextel Merger: Employee Benefits and Bashing the Messenger

    On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 16:10:21 GMT, Tropical Haven <[email protected]> chose
    to add this to the great equation of life, the universe, and everything:

    >> Yes, I do now. I did not realize that Sprint doesn't allow ANY roaming
    >> without extra charge a la AC.
    >>
    >> I'm still not sure I place as much importance on it as you, but I
    >> understand where you're coming from.

    >
    >Well, Verizon does actually charge extra for AC. It's built into the
    >plan. Ever notice that North America's Choice is more expensive than
    >America's Choice, and AC is generally more expensive than "Local Digital
    >Choice"? Seems that the "roam for free" on AC is actually "roam for
    >[monthly] fee"?


    That's not the same thing. AC is a larger geographic area than LDC, but LDC
    still includes no-charge roaming on other systems (at least in many
    markets). In fact, LDC often includes (or at least used to) free roaming
    areas that AC doesn't.

    What Steve is saying is that Sprint doesn't have an equivalent to LDC and
    VZW doesn't have an equivalent to F&C.

    --
    David Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry
    http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter
    Remove the naughty bit from my address to reply
    Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time.
    "People go to soup kitchens because the food is free and that's easier
    than paying for it." - Ed Meese




  12. #117
    jade-swords
    Guest

    Re: Sprint Nextel Merger: Employee Benefits and Bashing the Messenger


    Poor Nextel.
    All I got to say is in NYC Sprint is no where near the reception. Plus
    with their wanna-be PTT option which mind you takes 10 minutes to
    connect. Nextel is more people oriented but very pricy. I own both
    and hate both equally. Maybe I will just kill all mobile phone ties
    and just use a can with a string attached to it. Or maybe those radio
    transmitters. Anyway, point is *NOTHING*
    No use arguing about merging companies when the inevitable comes. It's
    all about who dominates the airwaves and the market. Thing is Sprint
    has a good standing as far as CHEAP PLANS and Nextel - well what can
    you say - they have rappers in their commercials and they are business
    based and started off for just contractors and such.

    Let's all be friends!


    --
    jade-swords
    brought to you by http://www.wifi-forum.com/




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