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  1. #1
    Mij Adyaw
    Guest
    Why are there no Sim cards for CDMA phones? It seems that the flexibility
    offered by the GSM Sim cards could be implemented on CDMA phones also. Then
    to switch phones, all you have to do is remove the Sim card from the old
    phone and insert it in the new phone.

    -mij





    See More: Why no Sim Cards for CDMA




  2. #2
    Tropical Haven
    Guest

    Re: Why no Sim Cards for CDMA

    > Why are there no Sim cards for CDMA phones? It seems that the flexibility
    > offered by the GSM Sim cards could be implemented on CDMA phones also. Then
    > to switch phones, all you have to do is remove the Sim card from the old
    > phone and insert it in the new phone.


    My first guess would be it's from the legacy AMPS system. CDMA was
    developed ("perfected") by Qualcomm, a US company. In the US, AMPS was
    the national standard, and it was mandated that AMPS be mainted for a
    period of time (I think it's 2007 or 2008 when it no longer needs to be
    maintained). Because of that requirement, the natural upgrade path of
    carriers would be a similar type of system that would use the ESN for
    authentication. CDMA in Korea, which is compatible with CDMA in North
    America uses the R-UIM, a card similar to SIM and interchangeable with
    SIM (which allows GSM subsribers to roam on CDMA while in South Korea.

    TH




  3. #3
    Mutlley
    Guest

    Re: Why no Sim Cards for CDMA

    Tropical Haven <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> Why are there no Sim cards for CDMA phones? It seems that the flexibility
    >> offered by the GSM Sim cards could be implemented on CDMA phones also. Then
    >> to switch phones, all you have to do is remove the Sim card from the old
    >> phone and insert it in the new phone.

    >
    >My first guess would be it's from the legacy AMPS system. CDMA was
    >developed ("perfected") by Qualcomm, a US company. In the US, AMPS was
    >the national standard, and it was mandated that AMPS be mainted for a
    >period of time (I think it's 2007 or 2008 when it no longer needs to be
    >maintained). Because of that requirement, the natural upgrade path of
    >carriers would be a similar type of system that would use the ESN for
    >authentication. CDMA in Korea, which is compatible with CDMA in North
    >America uses the R-UIM, a card similar to SIM and interchangeable with
    >SIM (which allows GSM subsribers to roam on CDMA while in South Korea.
    >
    >TH


    In the case of the country where I live in I think that the omission
    of R-UIM cards was by the teleco a method of stopping the parallel
    importing of CDMA phones. There are heaps of companies parallel
    importing GSM phones and selling them are far less prices than the
    GSM carriers do..

    But it would have been nice to have R-IUM cards from day one on CDMA..



  4. #4

    Re: Why no Sim Cards for CDMA

    On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 12:54:59 +1200, Mutlley <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >In the case of the country where I live in I think that the omission
    >of R-UIM cards was by the teleco a method of stopping the parallel
    >importing of CDMA phones. There are heaps of companies parallel
    >importing GSM phones and selling them are far less prices than the
    >GSM carriers do..


    Who? I can't see that anyone is selling any phones for "far less"
    than the carriers, it is all very expensive here in the US IMHO.
    Please post the identity of anyone who sells any phones for far less.
    At least in the US. I'll buy one.

    In the US the selling of discounted phones branded to carriers seems
    to be a mechanism designed solely to keep subscribers signed up for 2
    year contracts, one after another. To build "loyalty" by liquidated
    damages.

    It is pretty obvious most of these phones don't cost $200-$500. But
    if you don't sign up for a contract you just have to pay.






  5. #5
    Isaiah Beard
    Guest

    Re: Why no Sim Cards for CDMA

    [email protected] wrote:

    > It is pretty obvious most of these phones don't cost $200-$500.


    Oh, it is? I disagree. it' SEEMS obvious because you're accustomed to
    a carrier eating the $200-500 of each phone, but I'm sure you'd be quite
    unhappy if the subsidy system goes away.


    --
    E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
    Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.



  6. #6
    John S
    Guest

    Re: Why no Sim Cards for CDMA


    "Mij Adyaw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:XPk%[email protected]
    > Why are there no Sim cards for CDMA phones? It seems that the flexibility
    > offered by the GSM Sim cards could be implemented on CDMA phones also.
    > Then to switch phones, all you have to do is remove the Sim card from the
    > old phone and insert it in the new phone.


    Because SIM's are unique to GSM.





  7. #7
    Isaiah Beard
    Guest

    Re: Why no Sim Cards for CDMA

    John S wrote:
    >>Why are there no Sim cards for CDMA phones? It seems that the flexibility
    >>offered by the GSM Sim cards could be implemented on CDMA phones also.
    >>Then to switch phones, all you have to do is remove the Sim card from the
    >>old phone and insert it in the new phone.



    > Because SIM's are unique to GSM.


    Heh, definitely not true.

    --
    E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
    Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.



  8. #8
    (Pete Cresswell)
    Guest

    Re: Why no Sim Cards for CDMA

    Per Isaiah Beard:
    >Oh, it is? I disagree. it' SEEMS obvious because you're accustomed to
    >a carrier eating the $200-500 of each phone, but I'm sure you'd be quite
    >unhappy if the subsidy system goes away.


    Not me. Just thinking about bundling phone and carrier upsets me.
    I'm sort of unbundled on the tMobile accounts I recently set up bc I purchased a
    used phone for one. I think bundling is the pits.
    --
    PeteCresswell



  9. #9
    DevilsPGD
    Guest

    Re: Why no Sim Cards for CDMA

    In message <%kG%[email protected]> "John
    S" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >"Mij Adyaw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:XPk%[email protected]
    >> Why are there no Sim cards for CDMA phones? It seems that the flexibility
    >> offered by the GSM Sim cards could be implemented on CDMA phones also.
    >> Then to switch phones, all you have to do is remove the Sim card from the
    >> old phone and insert it in the new phone.

    >
    >Because SIM's are unique to GSM.
    >


    Thanks for playing, but no they are not. Modern iDEN phones have SIM
    cards as well.

    There is nothing unique about GSM that makes GSM more or less adaptable
    to SIM cards, just that SIM cards were designed into the spec.


    --
    "These, and other cliches will be available to you all for one more
    day of training, with me"
    -- Jack O'Neill



  10. #10
    Stuart Friedman
    Guest

    Re: Why no Sim Cards for CDMA

    some sat phones use sim cards as well. Also SIMs are used for the TDMA half
    of GAIT phones.

    Stu

    "DevilsPGD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > In message <%kG%[email protected]> "John
    > S" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>"Mij Adyaw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>news:XPk%[email protected]
    >>> Why are there no Sim cards for CDMA phones? It seems that the
    >>> flexibility
    >>> offered by the GSM Sim cards could be implemented on CDMA phones also.
    >>> Then to switch phones, all you have to do is remove the Sim card from
    >>> the
    >>> old phone and insert it in the new phone.

    >>
    >>Because SIM's are unique to GSM.
    >>

    >
    > Thanks for playing, but no they are not. Modern iDEN phones have SIM
    > cards as well.
    >
    > There is nothing unique about GSM that makes GSM more or less adaptable
    > to SIM cards, just that SIM cards were designed into the spec.
    >
    >
    > --
    > "These, and other cliches will be available to you all for one more
    > day of training, with me"
    > -- Jack O'Neill






  11. #11
    PeteCresswell
    Guest

    Re: Re: Why no Sim Cards for CDMA

    On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 22:58:32 -0800, Joseph <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >>Just thinking about bundling phone and carrier upsets me.
    >>I'm sort of unbundled on the tMobile accounts I recently set up bc I purchased a
    >>used phone for one. I think bundling is the pits.

    >
    >Carriers bundle phones with service to convince you to go with their
    >service as an incentive to use them. That's why they either give you
    >a phone or severely discount the price of the phones for use on their
    >service.


    The part that irritates me is that I strongly suspect that I'm paying
    for all those camera phones that people choose while I just stick with
    plain-vanilla...



  12. #12

    Re: Why no Sim Cards for CDMA

    On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 14:21:47 -0500, Isaiah Beard
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>[email protected] wrote:
    >>
    >> It is pretty obvious most of these phones don't cost $200-$500.

    >
    >Oh, it is? I disagree. it' SEEMS obvious because you're accustomed to
    >a carrier eating the $200-500 of each phone, but I'm sure you'd be quite
    >unhappy if the subsidy system goes away.


    No, I would prefer the subsidy system went away. Then the phones
    would be sold in a competitive market by the manufacturer, and prices
    would decline. Take a look a the price of laser printers, used to be
    $1500. Now you can buy one for $99, or even less. Market forces at
    work. The manufacturers are duking it out. Cellular handset
    manufacturers have only a few customers, the carriers.

    It is hardly in the customer's best interest for Motorola and Samsung
    to sell phones to carriers for $63 and have the carrier put a $299
    price tag on it, but it's free if you sign a contract.

    The minute rate/monthly rate you pay is subsidizing that cost, but the
    cost is really only the $63.

    If I could buy that phone on the competitive market it would probably
    cost me $99 or less, and my minute usage rate would no longer have to
    be as high as it is to subsidize it.

    Cellular carriers have a very high customer acquisition cost. I heard
    $450 a while ago. That of course includes advertising, the "free"
    phone, salesman commission and overhead. So no wonder they want badly
    to lock you in.

    There used to be a 6% commission paid in perpetuity to the activating
    dealer. Not sure if that is still going on but only a fool wouldn't
    realize that is in your bill every month.



  13. #13
    DevilsPGD
    Guest

    Re: Why no Sim Cards for CDMA

    In message <[email protected]>
    "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 14:21:47 -0500, Isaiah Beard
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>[email protected] wrote:
    >>>
    >>> It is pretty obvious most of these phones don't cost $200-$500.

    >>
    >>Oh, it is? I disagree. it' SEEMS obvious because you're accustomed to
    >>a carrier eating the $200-500 of each phone, but I'm sure you'd be quite
    >>unhappy if the subsidy system goes away.

    >
    >No, I would prefer the subsidy system went away. Then the phones
    >would be sold in a competitive market by the manufacturer, and prices
    >would decline. Take a look a the price of laser printers, used to be
    >$1500. Now you can buy one for $99, or even less. Market forces at
    >work. The manufacturers are duking it out. Cellular handset
    >manufacturers have only a few customers, the carriers.


    Printers aren't a fair comparison though, because they too are
    subsidized. The manufacturer loses money on virtually every SOHO
    printer sold, but makes it up in the recurring charges (the ink/toner)


    --
    "If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent
    that year in college"
    -- Lewis Black



  14. #14
    PeteCresswell
    Guest

    Re: Re: Why no Sim Cards for CDMA

    On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 19:26:44 -0800, Joseph <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >>The part that irritates me is that I strongly suspect that I'm paying
    >>for all those camera phones that people choose while I just stick with
    >>plain-vanilla...

    >
    >No one is forcing you to use a plain or fancy phone.


    The idea is, though, to the extent that others choose fancy phones, my
    plain-vanilla phone becomes more expensive.



  15. #15
    clifto
    Guest

    Re: Why no Sim Cards for CDMA

    [email protected] wrote:
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>Oh, it is? I disagree. it' SEEMS obvious because you're accustomed to
    >>a carrier eating the $200-500 of each phone, but I'm sure you'd be quite
    >>unhappy if the subsidy system goes away.

    >
    > No, I would prefer the subsidy system went away. Then the phones
    > would be sold in a competitive market by the manufacturer, and prices
    > would decline. [snip rest of analysis]


    I couldn't have said that better.



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