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- 07-06-2006, 10:14 PM #16John NavasGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims
On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 22:51:16 -0400, "PC Medic" <[email protected]> wrote in
<G_jrg.4040$nK.2371@dukeread05>:
>> Of course neither Cingular nor Telephia will release their data, which
>> pretty much assures that the data is highly suspect.
>
>The fact that my family (4 handsets, 3 different models) constantly
>experiences dropped calls on our Cingular account in several parts of our
>area (Virginia Beach - Hampton Roads) tells me the data is highly suspect!
Not really, since no one area is typical of other areas.
--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
› See More: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over AdvertisingClaims
- 07-06-2006, 11:01 PM #17QuickGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims
John Navas wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 19:55:18 -0700, SMS
> <[email protected]> wrote in
> <[email protected]>:
>
>> Mij Adyaw wrote:
>>> I do not believe that this is true. Verizon has the
>>> best network coverage.
>>
>> CDMA coverage is about 1.5x that of GSM, in terms of
>> area covered. In terms of population covered, the two
>> are about equal, because the number of rural customers
>> is so small. ...
>
> Simply not true. See my prior post for GSM coverage maps.
Looked at your last 2 posts in this thread. No maps.
When pointing to the GSM maps can you also point to
the CDMA maps too? Tough to make a comparison with
only one map.
-Quick
- 07-06-2006, 11:27 PM #18SMSGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over AdvertisingClaims
Quick wrote:
> John Navas wrote:
>> On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 19:55:18 -0700, SMS
>> <[email protected]> wrote in
>> <[email protected]>:
>>
>>> Mij Adyaw wrote:
>>>> I do not believe that this is true. Verizon has the
>>>> best network coverage.
>>> CDMA coverage is about 1.5x that of GSM, in terms of
>>> area covered. In terms of population covered, the two
>>> are about equal, because the number of rural customers
>>> is so small. ...
>> Simply not true. See my prior post for GSM coverage maps.
>
> Looked at your last 2 posts in this thread. No maps.
> When pointing to the GSM maps can you also point to
> the CDMA maps too? Tough to make a comparison with
> only one map.
The best place to look is "http://www.mountainwireless.com/3netmap.htm".
These maps confirm my earlier statements.
If GSM users were able to roam onto AT&T's/Cingular's legacy AMPS
network, the Cingular coverage would be about equal to that of Verizon,
though Verizon would have more digital coverage, because CDMA covers
more of the U.S. than GSM at this time.
Cingular is adding GSM towers at a rapid pace, it seems that every day
they issue a press release regarding new areas of coverage that they are
adding, in a couple of years they will probably have coverage as good as
Verizon's (see
"http://cingular.mediaroom.com/index.php?year=2006&s=press_releases").
- 07-07-2006, 06:52 AM #19Thomas T. VeldhouseGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims
In alt.cellular.sprintpcs John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Likewise other carriers, especially Verizon, which relied only on its
> own internal testing (thus lacking any credibility whatsoever).
>
Internal testing does not at all indicate a lack of credibility. In fact, it
is negligent to suggest it. It might indicate to many that perhaps they would
also like to see results from an indepently performed test. If an independent
test were to corroborate the results that Verizon publishes for its internal
tests, then there certainly is no credibility issue, and in fact, it would be
an indicator that their internal tests can be relied upon.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
- 07-07-2006, 09:25 AM #20Mij AdyawGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims
The reason that Cingular has the least dropped calls is that they probably
surveyed markets where they do not provide any coverage. Therefore, if you
cannot make a call, you cannot drop the call! heheheheheheheh!
"SMS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mij Adyaw wrote:
>> Cingular needs to stop the false advertising. It is very misleading.
>
> It doesn't matter to them, as long as it achieves the desired result.
> Repeat a lie often enough, and people believe it. What Cingular has done
> is to take the highly questionable dropped call data, and declared that
> the benchmark for the "best network" is the fewest dropped calls. Of
> course the latter is their opinion, while Telephia did concede that in
> some markets, during some time periods, Cingular had less dropped calls
> than the competition (left unsaid was that during some time periods, in
> some markets, Cingular must have had more dropped calls than the
> competition).
>
> Contrast Cingular's claims, to those of Verizon. Verizon's claims have
> been backed up by every independent survey, surveys that used a very large
> sample size, and wide geographic coverage.
- 07-07-2006, 09:27 AM #21Mij AdyawGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims
The Verizon claims are real! At least Verizon discloses the source of their
independent research. I believe that Verizon should also sue Cingular and
Cingular should pay-up and stop the false advertising.
"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 19:52:14 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
> wrote in <[email protected]>:
>
>>Contrast Cingular's claims, to those of Verizon. Verizon's claims ...
>
> ... are based solely on its own internal tests, and thus have no
> credibility at all.
>
> --
> Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
> John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
- 07-07-2006, 09:38 AM #22SMSGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over AdvertisingClaims
Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> Internal testing does not at all indicate a lack of credibility. In fact, it
> is negligent to suggest it. It might indicate to many that perhaps they would
> also like to see results from an indepently performed test. If an independent
> test were to corroborate the results that Verizon publishes for its internal
> tests, then there certainly is no credibility issue, and in fact, it would be
> an indicator that their internal tests can be relied upon.
Verizon was very open about their testing methodology, there was even a
news show that looked at how they did it. And of course if you look at
all the independent surveys, they back up Verizon's claims, while there
are no independent surveys that back up Cingular's claims.
That said, if Verizon were to conduct their tests again, under AC-II,
with an all-digital phone, the results would probably not show such a
wide difference in coverage. In fact, it's possible that Sprint, with a
tri-band phone, would have more coverage than any carrier, because many
of the coverage areas that were lost when Verizon moved from AC to
AC-II, are still covered by Sprint, under roaming agreements.
- 07-07-2006, 09:42 AM #23SMSGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over AdvertisingClaims
Mij Adyaw wrote:
> The Verizon claims are real! At least Verizon discloses the source of their
> independent research. I believe that Verizon should also sue Cingular and
> Cingular should pay-up and stop the false advertising.
I think Verizon is standing aside in bemusement, as Cingular and Sprint
hurt each other with this nonsense.
- 07-07-2006, 09:45 AM #24SMSGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over AdvertisingClaims
Mij Adyaw wrote:
> The reason that Cingular has the least dropped calls is that they probably
> surveyed markets where they do not provide any coverage. Therefore, if you
> cannot make a call, you cannot drop the call! heheheheheheheh!
It actually isn't a joke, it's a valid assumption. Given the fact that
Cingular won't release the details of the Telephia study, it's clear
that their dropped call claim is based on some very specific
circumstances (Telephia has even stated this).
I have experienced dropped calls on Verizon, in outlying areas, but it's
been in areas where there was no GSM coverage at all. What usually
happens is that a call begins on CDMA, then I travel outside the CDMA
coverage area during the call. I can make the call again but on AMPS.
- 07-07-2006, 11:31 AM #25Mij AdyawGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims
Yup,
John is an intelligent guy. He is just drinking too much Cingular Kool-Aid
lately. Sometimes when he drinks too much Kool-Aid, he loses touch with
reality.
"SMS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> RNess wrote:
>> John, I'm sure you really believe that... or think you do...
>
> In reality, he knows full well that it isn't true.
>
>> But, the reality is sure different. Quite a bit different.
>> Keep deluding yourself, but it just ain't so.
>
> It would be a mistake to believe that he does not know the reality of the
> situation.
- 07-07-2006, 03:44 PM #26John NavasGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims
On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 22:27:46 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
wrote in <[email protected]>:
>Cingular is adding GSM towers at a rapid pace, it seems that every day
>they issue a press release regarding new areas of coverage that they are
>adding, in a couple of years they will probably have coverage as good as
>Verizon's (see
>"http://cingular.mediaroom.com/index.php?year=2006&s=press_releases").
It already does.
--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
- 07-07-2006, 03:45 PM #27John NavasGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims
Internal tests aren't "independent" in any sense of the word, and have
no real credibility at all.
On Fri, 7 Jul 2006 08:27:09 -0700, "Mij Adyaw" <[email protected]>
wrote in <h3vrg.10505$Nv.7080@fed1read10>:
>The Verizon claims are real! At least Verizon discloses the source of their
>independent research. I believe that Verizon should also sue Cingular and
>Cingular should pay-up and stop the false advertising.
>
>"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 19:52:14 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
>> wrote in <[email protected]>:
>>
>>>Contrast Cingular's claims, to those of Verizon. Verizon's claims ...
>>
>> ... are based solely on its own internal tests, and thus have no
>> credibility at all.
--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
- 07-07-2006, 11:19 PM #28Mij AdyawGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims
John,
Pass some of the stuff you are smoking over here! :-)
"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 22:27:46 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
> wrote in <[email protected]>:
>
>>Cingular is adding GSM towers at a rapid pace, it seems that every day
>>they issue a press release regarding new areas of coverage that they are
>>adding, in a couple of years they will probably have coverage as good as
>>Verizon's (see
>>"http://cingular.mediaroom.com/index.php?year=2006&s=press_releases").
>
> It already does.
>
> --
> Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
> John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
- 07-16-2006, 08:54 AM #29Jerome ZelinskeGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over AdvertisingClaims
Verizon's network is either all overlaid with cdma, or did not
have an analog underlay to begin with. Having a verizon phone that
includes analog will not gain any additional verizon network coverage.
It may on rare instances gain additional analog roaming coverage. Which
state does make a difference. In WI, cingular has a larger covered area
than verizon, so does uscellular and Sprint PCS.
- 07-16-2006, 08:10 PM #30Jerome ZelinskeGuest
Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over AdvertisingClaims
In my opinion, being able to roam, even "free", does not increase a
carrier's coverage. It is still not true service from your carrier.
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