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  1. #16
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims

    On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 22:51:16 -0400, "PC Medic" <[email protected]> wrote in
    <G_jrg.4040$nK.2371@dukeread05>:

    >> Of course neither Cingular nor Telephia will release their data, which
    >> pretty much assures that the data is highly suspect.

    >
    >The fact that my family (4 handsets, 3 different models) constantly
    >experiences dropped calls on our Cingular account in several parts of our
    >area (Virginia Beach - Hampton Roads) tells me the data is highly suspect!


    Not really, since no one area is typical of other areas.

    --
    Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>



    See More: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over AdvertisingClaims




  2. #17
    Quick
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims

    John Navas wrote:
    > On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 19:55:18 -0700, SMS
    > <[email protected]> wrote in
    > <[email protected]>:
    >
    >> Mij Adyaw wrote:
    >>> I do not believe that this is true. Verizon has the
    >>> best network coverage.

    >>
    >> CDMA coverage is about 1.5x that of GSM, in terms of
    >> area covered. In terms of population covered, the two
    >> are about equal, because the number of rural customers
    >> is so small. ...

    >
    > Simply not true. See my prior post for GSM coverage maps.


    Looked at your last 2 posts in this thread. No maps.
    When pointing to the GSM maps can you also point to
    the CDMA maps too? Tough to make a comparison with
    only one map.

    -Quick





  3. #18
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over AdvertisingClaims

    Quick wrote:
    > John Navas wrote:
    >> On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 19:55:18 -0700, SMS
    >> <[email protected]> wrote in
    >> <[email protected]>:
    >>
    >>> Mij Adyaw wrote:
    >>>> I do not believe that this is true. Verizon has the
    >>>> best network coverage.
    >>> CDMA coverage is about 1.5x that of GSM, in terms of
    >>> area covered. In terms of population covered, the two
    >>> are about equal, because the number of rural customers
    >>> is so small. ...

    >> Simply not true. See my prior post for GSM coverage maps.

    >
    > Looked at your last 2 posts in this thread. No maps.
    > When pointing to the GSM maps can you also point to
    > the CDMA maps too? Tough to make a comparison with
    > only one map.


    The best place to look is "http://www.mountainwireless.com/3netmap.htm".
    These maps confirm my earlier statements.

    If GSM users were able to roam onto AT&T's/Cingular's legacy AMPS
    network, the Cingular coverage would be about equal to that of Verizon,
    though Verizon would have more digital coverage, because CDMA covers
    more of the U.S. than GSM at this time.

    Cingular is adding GSM towers at a rapid pace, it seems that every day
    they issue a press release regarding new areas of coverage that they are
    adding, in a couple of years they will probably have coverage as good as
    Verizon's (see
    "http://cingular.mediaroom.com/index.php?year=2006&s=press_releases").





  4. #19
    Thomas T. Veldhouse
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims

    In alt.cellular.sprintpcs John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > Likewise other carriers, especially Verizon, which relied only on its
    > own internal testing (thus lacking any credibility whatsoever).
    >


    Internal testing does not at all indicate a lack of credibility. In fact, it
    is negligent to suggest it. It might indicate to many that perhaps they would
    also like to see results from an indepently performed test. If an independent
    test were to corroborate the results that Verizon publishes for its internal
    tests, then there certainly is no credibility issue, and in fact, it would be
    an indicator that their internal tests can be relied upon.

    --
    Thomas T. Veldhouse
    Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1




  5. #20
    Mij Adyaw
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims

    The reason that Cingular has the least dropped calls is that they probably
    surveyed markets where they do not provide any coverage. Therefore, if you
    cannot make a call, you cannot drop the call! heheheheheheheh!


    "SMS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Mij Adyaw wrote:
    >> Cingular needs to stop the false advertising. It is very misleading.

    >
    > It doesn't matter to them, as long as it achieves the desired result.
    > Repeat a lie often enough, and people believe it. What Cingular has done
    > is to take the highly questionable dropped call data, and declared that
    > the benchmark for the "best network" is the fewest dropped calls. Of
    > course the latter is their opinion, while Telephia did concede that in
    > some markets, during some time periods, Cingular had less dropped calls
    > than the competition (left unsaid was that during some time periods, in
    > some markets, Cingular must have had more dropped calls than the
    > competition).
    >
    > Contrast Cingular's claims, to those of Verizon. Verizon's claims have
    > been backed up by every independent survey, surveys that used a very large
    > sample size, and wide geographic coverage.






  6. #21
    Mij Adyaw
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims

    The Verizon claims are real! At least Verizon discloses the source of their
    independent research. I believe that Verizon should also sue Cingular and
    Cingular should pay-up and stop the false advertising.

    "John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 19:52:14 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
    > wrote in <[email protected]>:
    >
    >>Contrast Cingular's claims, to those of Verizon. Verizon's claims ...

    >
    > ... are based solely on its own internal tests, and thus have no
    > credibility at all.
    >
    > --
    > Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
    > John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>






  7. #22
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over AdvertisingClaims

    Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:

    > Internal testing does not at all indicate a lack of credibility. In fact, it
    > is negligent to suggest it. It might indicate to many that perhaps they would
    > also like to see results from an indepently performed test. If an independent
    > test were to corroborate the results that Verizon publishes for its internal
    > tests, then there certainly is no credibility issue, and in fact, it would be
    > an indicator that their internal tests can be relied upon.


    Verizon was very open about their testing methodology, there was even a
    news show that looked at how they did it. And of course if you look at
    all the independent surveys, they back up Verizon's claims, while there
    are no independent surveys that back up Cingular's claims.

    That said, if Verizon were to conduct their tests again, under AC-II,
    with an all-digital phone, the results would probably not show such a
    wide difference in coverage. In fact, it's possible that Sprint, with a
    tri-band phone, would have more coverage than any carrier, because many
    of the coverage areas that were lost when Verizon moved from AC to
    AC-II, are still covered by Sprint, under roaming agreements.




  8. #23
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over AdvertisingClaims

    Mij Adyaw wrote:
    > The Verizon claims are real! At least Verizon discloses the source of their
    > independent research. I believe that Verizon should also sue Cingular and
    > Cingular should pay-up and stop the false advertising.


    I think Verizon is standing aside in bemusement, as Cingular and Sprint
    hurt each other with this nonsense.



  9. #24
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over AdvertisingClaims

    Mij Adyaw wrote:
    > The reason that Cingular has the least dropped calls is that they probably
    > surveyed markets where they do not provide any coverage. Therefore, if you
    > cannot make a call, you cannot drop the call! heheheheheheheh!


    It actually isn't a joke, it's a valid assumption. Given the fact that
    Cingular won't release the details of the Telephia study, it's clear
    that their dropped call claim is based on some very specific
    circumstances (Telephia has even stated this).

    I have experienced dropped calls on Verizon, in outlying areas, but it's
    been in areas where there was no GSM coverage at all. What usually
    happens is that a call begins on CDMA, then I travel outside the CDMA
    coverage area during the call. I can make the call again but on AMPS.



  10. #25
    Mij Adyaw
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims

    Yup,

    John is an intelligent guy. He is just drinking too much Cingular Kool-Aid
    lately. Sometimes when he drinks too much Kool-Aid, he loses touch with
    reality.


    "SMS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > RNess wrote:
    >> John, I'm sure you really believe that... or think you do...

    >
    > In reality, he knows full well that it isn't true.
    >
    >> But, the reality is sure different. Quite a bit different.
    >> Keep deluding yourself, but it just ain't so.

    >
    > It would be a mistake to believe that he does not know the reality of the
    > situation.






  11. #26
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims

    On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 22:27:46 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
    wrote in <[email protected]>:

    >Cingular is adding GSM towers at a rapid pace, it seems that every day
    >they issue a press release regarding new areas of coverage that they are
    >adding, in a couple of years they will probably have coverage as good as
    >Verizon's (see
    >"http://cingular.mediaroom.com/index.php?year=2006&s=press_releases").


    It already does.

    --
    Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>



  12. #27
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims

    Internal tests aren't "independent" in any sense of the word, and have
    no real credibility at all.

    On Fri, 7 Jul 2006 08:27:09 -0700, "Mij Adyaw" <[email protected]>
    wrote in <h3vrg.10505$Nv.7080@fed1read10>:

    >The Verizon claims are real! At least Verizon discloses the source of their
    >independent research. I believe that Verizon should also sue Cingular and
    >Cingular should pay-up and stop the false advertising.
    >
    >"John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 19:52:14 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
    >> wrote in <[email protected]>:
    >>
    >>>Contrast Cingular's claims, to those of Verizon. Verizon's claims ...

    >>
    >> ... are based solely on its own internal tests, and thus have no
    >> credibility at all.


    --
    Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>



  13. #28
    Mij Adyaw
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims

    John,

    Pass some of the stuff you are smoking over here! :-)


    "John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 22:27:46 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
    > wrote in <[email protected]>:
    >
    >>Cingular is adding GSM towers at a rapid pace, it seems that every day
    >>they issue a press release regarding new areas of coverage that they are
    >>adding, in a couple of years they will probably have coverage as good as
    >>Verizon's (see
    >>"http://cingular.mediaroom.com/index.php?year=2006&s=press_releases").

    >
    > It already does.
    >
    > --
    > Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
    > John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>






  14. #29
    Jerome Zelinske
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over AdvertisingClaims

    Verizon's network is either all overlaid with cdma, or did not
    have an analog underlay to begin with. Having a verizon phone that
    includes analog will not gain any additional verizon network coverage.
    It may on rare instances gain additional analog roaming coverage. Which
    state does make a difference. In WI, cingular has a larger covered area
    than verizon, so does uscellular and Sprint PCS.



  15. #30
    Jerome Zelinske
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over AdvertisingClaims

    In my opinion, being able to roam, even "free", does not increase a
    carrier's coverage. It is still not true service from your carrier.



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