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  1. #1
    SMS
    Guest
    "http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2006/07/04/competitors_seek_an_end_to_legal_fight_on_ad_claims/"

    This is an interesting article, as it's the first time, AFAIK, that the
    contents of the letter that Telephia sent to the other carriers, were
    revealed.

    1) Telephia never claimed that Cingular had the fewest dropped calls,
    and in fact never analyzes its own data.

    2) Telephia did state that is some markets, in some time periods,
    Cingular had fewer dropped calls, a far cry from what Cingular is now
    advertising, and a claim that other carriers could probably also
    legitimately use in their own advertising.

    3. Telephia used a GSM phone with an external antenna for its tests, and
    Sprint claims that this taints the results because most phones offered
    b Cingular don't have an external antenna.

    4. The areas where Telephia collected their data are not representative
    of average users (according to Sprint, Telephia did their data
    collection on major highways).

    Of course neither Cingular nor Telephia will release their data, which
    pretty much assures that the data is highly suspect.



    See More: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over AdvertisingClaims




  2. #2
    DecaturTxCowboy
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over AdvertisingClaims

    SMS wrote:
    > "http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2006/07/04/competitors_seek_an_end_to_legal_fight_on_ad_claims/"
    >
    >
    > This is an interesting article, as it's the first time, AFAIK, that the
    > contents of the letter that Telephia sent to the other carriers, were
    > revealed.


    The most interesting part was "a high-stakes legal bid to claim bragging
    rights to the best wireless network, a key selling point for consumers
    purchasing wireless service."

    Carriers are finally recognizing the importance of over network quality
    instead of changeable faceplate, ring tones, etc. as they did a few
    years ago.



  3. #3
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over AdvertisingClaims

    DecaturTxCowboy wrote:

    > The most interesting part was "a high-stakes legal bid to claim bragging
    > rights to the best wireless network, a key selling point for consumers
    > purchasing wireless service."


    That statement is especially interesting when you consider that every
    independent study, and all industry experts, agree that Verizon, rather
    than the two carriers battling this out, has the best network in terms
    of coverage. Sprint has the coverage edge in high speed data, with
    Verizon a close second, and Cingular far behind and struggling to catch
    up. Furthermore, Sprint and Verizon

    Cingular took the Telephia data, found some time periods, in some areas,
    where they had fewer dropped calls, and has built a whole advertising
    campaign on this highly questionable data. The real question is whether
    anyone actually believes any of it, and based on Cingular's gross
    addition numbers there are people that fall for it, but based on their
    churn numbers, these people eventually figure out that it's all bull.

    The most amusing adjudication on advertising claims came from the
    National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus.
    They rejected Cingular's claims of having the most business customers,
    and of offering the widest range of business services, but stated that
    Cingular had proved it's claim of having the fastest national wireless
    data network. Come again? With HSDPA slowly being rolled out (it wasn't
    even available in New York City when this "finding" came out, and with
    HSDPA no faster than EV-DO rev 0 (though with lower latency), how did
    they come up with this gem? Don't you at least need to cover the largest
    metropolitan areas to be able to claim that you have a national network?



  4. #4
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over AdvertisingClaims

    SMS wrote:
    > DecaturTxCowboy wrote:
    >
    >> The most interesting part was "a high-stakes legal bid to claim
    >> bragging rights to the best wireless network, a key selling point for
    >> consumers purchasing wireless service."

    >
    > That statement is especially interesting when you consider that every
    > independent study, and all industry experts, agree that Verizon, rather
    > than the two carriers battling this out, has the best network in terms
    > of coverage. Sprint has the coverage edge in high speed data, with
    > Verizon a close second, and Cingular far behind and struggling to catch
    > up. Furthermore, Sprint and Verizon
    >
    > Cingular took the Telephia data, found some time periods, in some areas,
    > where they had fewer dropped calls, and has built a whole advertising
    > campaign on this highly questionable data. The real question is whether
    > anyone actually believes any of it, and based on Cingular's gross
    > addition numbers there are people that fall for it, but based on their
    > churn numbers, these people eventually figure out that it's all bull.
    >
    > The most amusing adjudication on advertising claims came from the
    > National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus.
    > They rejected Cingular's claims of having the most business customers,
    > and of offering the widest range of business services, but stated that
    > Cingular had proved it's claim of having the fastest national wireless
    > data network. Come again? With HSDPA slowly being rolled out (it wasn't
    > even available in New York City when this "finding" came out, and with
    > HSDPA no faster than EV-DO rev 0 (though with lower latency), how did
    > they come up with this gem? Don't you at least need to cover the largest
    > metropolitan areas to be able to claim that you have a national network?


    Sorry for following up on my own post, but I found the HSDPA versus
    EV-DO speed test I was looking for at
    "http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1916283,00.asp"

    Their conclusion: "For now, both Sprint and Verizon have the upper hand
    when it comes to high-speed data."



  5. #5
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims

    On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 05:56:53 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
    wrote in <[email protected]>:

    >"http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2006/07/04/competitors_seek_an_end_to_legal_fight_on_ad_claims/"
    >
    >This is an interesting article, as it's the first time, AFAIK, that the
    >contents of the letter that Telephia sent to the other carriers, were
    >revealed.
    >
    >1) Telephia never claimed that Cingular had the fewest dropped calls,
    >and in fact never analyzes its own data.
    >
    >2) Telephia did state that is some markets, in some time periods,
    >Cingular had fewer dropped calls, a far cry from what Cingular is now
    >advertising, and a claim that other carriers could probably also
    >legitimately use in their own advertising.
    >
    >3. Telephia used a GSM phone with an external antenna for its tests, and
    > Sprint claims that this taints the results because most phones offered
    >b Cingular don't have an external antenna.
    >
    >4. The areas where Telephia collected their data are not representative
    >of average users (according to Sprint, Telephia did their data
    >collection on major highways).
    >
    >Of course neither Cingular nor Telephia will release their data, which
    >pretty much assures that the data is highly suspect.


    Likewise other carriers, especially Verizon, which relied only on its
    own internal testing (thus lacking any credibility whatsoever).

    --
    Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>



  6. #6
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims

    On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 08:53:44 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
    wrote in <[email protected]>:

    >DecaturTxCowboy wrote:
    >
    >> The most interesting part was "a high-stakes legal bid to claim bragging
    >> rights to the best wireless network, a key selling point for consumers
    >> purchasing wireless service."

    >
    >That statement is especially interesting when you consider that every
    >independent study, and all industry experts, agree that Verizon, rather
    >than the two carriers battling this out, has the best network in terms
    >of coverage. [SNIP rest of propaganda]


    That's simply not true, a gross distortion of what's been published.

    Cingular's GSM network coverage is at least as good as CDMA network
    coverage by Verizon, if not better.

    --
    Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>



  7. #7
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims

    On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 09:05:39 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
    wrote in <[email protected]>:

    >SMS wrote:
    >> DecaturTxCowboy wrote:
    >>
    >>> The most interesting part was "a high-stakes legal bid to claim
    >>> bragging rights to the best wireless network, a key selling point for
    >>> consumers purchasing wireless service."

    >>
    >> That statement is especially interesting when you consider that every
    >> independent study, and all industry experts, agree that Verizon, rather
    >> than the two carriers battling this out, has the best network in terms
    >> of coverage. Sprint has the coverage edge in high speed data, with
    >> Verizon a close second, and Cingular far behind and struggling to catch
    >> up. Furthermore, Sprint and Verizon
    >>
    >> Cingular took the Telephia data, found some time periods, in some areas,
    >> where they had fewer dropped calls, and has built a whole advertising
    >> campaign on this highly questionable data. The real question is whether
    >> anyone actually believes any of it, and based on Cingular's gross
    >> addition numbers there are people that fall for it, but based on their
    >> churn numbers, these people eventually figure out that it's all bull.
    >>
    >> The most amusing adjudication on advertising claims came from the
    >> National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus.
    >> They rejected Cingular's claims of having the most business customers,
    >> and of offering the widest range of business services, but stated that
    >> Cingular had proved it's claim of having the fastest national wireless
    >> data network. Come again? With HSDPA slowly being rolled out (it wasn't
    >> even available in New York City when this "finding" came out, and with
    >> HSDPA no faster than EV-DO rev 0 (though with lower latency), how did
    >> they come up with this gem? Don't you at least need to cover the largest
    >> metropolitan areas to be able to claim that you have a national network?

    >
    >Sorry for following up on my own post, but I found the HSDPA versus
    >EV-DO speed test I was looking for at
    >"http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1916283,00.asp"
    >
    >Their conclusion: "For now, both Sprint and Verizon have the upper hand
    >when it comes to high-speed data."


    You're beating an out of date drum -- those were tests run over six
    months ago, just after the HSDPA network was first turned on and was
    still throttled down. Both GPRS and EGPRS(EDGE) were likewise throttled
    at first, with full speed turned on a few months later.

    --
    Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>



  8. #8
    Mij Adyaw
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims

    Cingular needs to stop the false advertising. It is very misleading.

    "John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 05:56:53 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
    > wrote in <[email protected]>:
    >
    >>"http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2006/07/04/competitors_seek_an_end_to_legal_fight_on_ad_claims/"
    >>
    >>This is an interesting article, as it's the first time, AFAIK, that the
    >>contents of the letter that Telephia sent to the other carriers, were
    >>revealed.
    >>
    >>1) Telephia never claimed that Cingular had the fewest dropped calls,
    >>and in fact never analyzes its own data.
    >>
    >>2) Telephia did state that is some markets, in some time periods,
    >>Cingular had fewer dropped calls, a far cry from what Cingular is now
    >>advertising, and a claim that other carriers could probably also
    >>legitimately use in their own advertising.
    >>
    >>3. Telephia used a GSM phone with an external antenna for its tests, and
    >> Sprint claims that this taints the results because most phones offered
    >>b Cingular don't have an external antenna.
    >>
    >>4. The areas where Telephia collected their data are not representative
    >>of average users (according to Sprint, Telephia did their data
    >>collection on major highways).
    >>
    >>Of course neither Cingular nor Telephia will release their data, which
    >>pretty much assures that the data is highly suspect.

    >
    > Likewise other carriers, especially Verizon, which relied only on its
    > own internal testing (thus lacking any credibility whatsoever).
    >
    > --
    > Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
    > John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>






  9. #9
    Mij Adyaw
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims

    I do not believe that this is true. Verizon has the best network coverage.

    "John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 08:53:44 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
    > wrote in <[email protected]>:
    >
    >>DecaturTxCowboy wrote:
    >>
    >>> The most interesting part was "a high-stakes legal bid to claim bragging
    >>> rights to the best wireless network, a key selling point for consumers
    >>> purchasing wireless service."

    >>
    >>That statement is especially interesting when you consider that every
    >>independent study, and all industry experts, agree that Verizon, rather
    >>than the two carriers battling this out, has the best network in terms
    >>of coverage. [SNIP rest of propaganda]

    >
    > That's simply not true, a gross distortion of what's been published.
    >
    > Cingular's GSM network coverage is at least as good as CDMA network
    > coverage by Verizon, if not better.
    >
    > --
    > Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
    > John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>






  10. #10
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims

    On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 17:48:42 -0700, "Mij Adyaw" <[email protected]>
    wrote in <[email protected]>:

    >Cingular needs to stop the false advertising. It is very misleading.


    Likewise the other carriers. Notably the absurd "Can you hear me now?"
    campaign.

    --
    Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>



  11. #11
    PC Medic
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims


    > Of course neither Cingular nor Telephia will release their data, which
    > pretty much assures that the data is highly suspect.


    The fact that my family (4 handsets, 3 different models) constantly
    experiences dropped calls on our Cingular account in several parts of our
    area (Virginia Beach - Hampton Roads) tells me the data is highly suspect!

    After complaing about this to a supervisor a couple weeks ago they presented
    me some offers (free phones, etc) to reconsider my possibly leaving them for
    another carrier and when I expressed they weren't offering much I was
    told... "well take some time to think about it and I will give you a call
    next Tuesday" That was now two weeks ago and no call.
    I know from experience what their dropped calls are like, wonder what their
    dropped customer rate is?








  12. #12
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over AdvertisingClaims

    Mij Adyaw wrote:
    > Cingular needs to stop the false advertising. It is very misleading.


    It doesn't matter to them, as long as it achieves the desired result.
    Repeat a lie often enough, and people believe it. What Cingular has done
    is to take the highly questionable dropped call data, and declared that
    the benchmark for the "best network" is the fewest dropped calls. Of
    course the latter is their opinion, while Telephia did concede that in
    some markets, during some time periods, Cingular had less dropped calls
    than the competition (left unsaid was that during some time periods, in
    some markets, Cingular must have had more dropped calls than the
    competition).

    Contrast Cingular's claims, to those of Verizon. Verizon's claims have
    been backed up by every independent survey, surveys that used a very
    large sample size, and wide geographic coverage.



  13. #13
    SMS
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over AdvertisingClaims

    Mij Adyaw wrote:
    > I do not believe that this is true. Verizon has the best network coverage.


    CDMA coverage is about 1.5x that of GSM, in terms of area covered. In
    terms of population covered, the two are about equal, because the number
    of rural customers is so small. Add AMPS to the equation (and a tri-mode
    phone), and the geographic area covered by CDMA/AMPS is nearly an order
    of magnitude greater.

    For people that never leave the city, they'll probably not notice any
    difference between CDMA and GSM, or CDMA/AMPS and GSM, but for many
    people, that travel for business or leisure, there is a huge difference.



  14. #14
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims

    On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 19:55:18 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
    wrote in <[email protected]>:

    >Mij Adyaw wrote:
    >> I do not believe that this is true. Verizon has the best network coverage.

    >
    >CDMA coverage is about 1.5x that of GSM, in terms of area covered. In
    >terms of population covered, the two are about equal, because the number
    >of rural customers is so small. ...


    Simply not true. See my prior post for GSM coverage maps.

    --
    Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>



  15. #15
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: Cingular and Sprint Pursuing Settlement in Dispute over Advertising Claims

    On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 19:52:14 -0700, SMS <[email protected]>
    wrote in <[email protected]>:

    >Contrast Cingular's claims, to those of Verizon. Verizon's claims ...


    .... are based solely on its own internal tests, and thus have no
    credibility at all.

    --
    Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>



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