Apple iPhone is GSM

In article <[email protected]>,
Tim Smith <[email protected]> wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> Kurt <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > Unless you buy a PDA, all the phones are "closed."
>
> It depends on what you mean by "closed". With Sprint, for example, you
> can get developer documentation and tools for free, by joining their
> free developer program. You can then write Java programs, and download
> them to many (most?) of their non-PDA phones. The programs do not have
> to be downloaded through Sprint or signed by them.
>
> However, the programs do not have full access to the phone. If you
> wanted to do something like, say, a replacement for the phone's address
> book, or a replacement for its ring system, or something like that, I
> don't think you could.

Yes, since most cell phone users are also developers fluent in writing
code, I see your compelling argument.

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› See More: Apple iPhone is GSM

In article <[email protected]>,
Kurt <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Tim Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Kurt <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > Unless you buy a PDA, all the phones are "closed."
> >
> > It depends on what you mean by "closed". With Sprint, for example, you
> > can get developer documentation and tools for free, by joining their
> > free developer program. You can then write Java programs, and download
> > them to many (most?) of their non-PDA phones. The programs do not have
> > to be downloaded through Sprint or signed by them.
> >
> > However, the programs do not have full access to the phone. If you
> > wanted to do something like, say, a replacement for the phone's address
> > book, or a replacement for its ring system, or something like that, I
> > don't think you could.
>
> Yes, since most cell phone users are also developers fluent in writing
> code, I see your compelling argument.

Perhaps you could explain what you mean by "closed", then? The usual
meaning is that developers other than the original company or those
specifically authorized by them can develop applications for a device,
and users can install those applications.

--
--Tim Smith

How do you know they have the exclusive thru 2008? That sounds like a long
time. If it's true, they must have paid Apple big time for this.

Mike Schumann

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 07:23:17 -0800, SMS <[email protected]>
> imagined:
>
>>P.Schuman wrote:
>>>> Keynote is over, Apple.com has been updated:
>>>> http://www.apple.com/iphone/
>>>>
>>> It's listed as a GSM device,
>>> so probably only for Cingular for widest customer base.
>>
>>I was in BJ's, next to Apple's campus in Cupertino, about six months ago
>>and I overheard some Apple people talking about the iPhone, and Verizon.
>>They had pitched it to Verizon, but Verizon made some unacceptable
>>demands:
>>
>>1. Bluetooth needed to be disabled, except for the headset.
>>2. Music could only be downloaded from Verizon's music service
>>3. WiFi would be disabled anytime the device detected Verizon's network
>>4. The OS would have to be Windows Embedded
>>5. Every photo taken would have to be immediately transferred across
>>Verizon's network
>>6. No roaming onto any non-Verizon CDMA network, even at extra cost
>
>
> You sure took good notes about what you "overheard". If it was true,
> any of them could have been fired for such loose lips. And Apple
> will come after you if any of this is true. Likely story.
> Take your dream fantasies elsewhere.
>
> The phone was GSM long ago, and so I fail to believe that 6 months ago
> it might have switched to CDMA (with extra cost from Qualcom).
>
> Cingular made zero restrictions on Apple other than a USA exclusivity
> through 2008.
>
> ==============
>
> Also interesting that Apple, first shot out of the box has a better
> PDA/Phone etc, than Microsoft has with Windows CE 5.



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In article <[email protected]>,
Tim Smith <[email protected]> wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> Kurt <[email protected]> wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Tim Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <[email protected]>,
> > > Kurt <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > Unless you buy a PDA, all the phones are "closed."
> > >
> > > It depends on what you mean by "closed". With Sprint, for example, you
> > > can get developer documentation and tools for free, by joining their
> > > free developer program. You can then write Java programs, and download
> > > them to many (most?) of their non-PDA phones. The programs do not have
> > > to be downloaded through Sprint or signed by them.
> > >
> > > However, the programs do not have full access to the phone. If you
> > > wanted to do something like, say, a replacement for the phone's address
> > > book, or a replacement for its ring system, or something like that, I
> > > don't think you could.
> >
> > Yes, since most cell phone users are also developers fluent in writing
> > code, I see your compelling argument.
>
> Perhaps you could explain what you mean by "closed", then? The usual
> meaning is that developers other than the original company or those
> specifically authorized by them can develop applications for a device,
> and users can install those applications.

I see your point, though I also see Apple eventually allowing apps to be
written. I don't see them doing anything that would compromise the
integrity of the interface.

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[email protected] wrote:

> You sure took good notes about what you "overheard". If it was true,
> any of them could have been fired for such loose lips. And Apple
> will come after you if any of this is true. Likely story.
> Take your dream fantasies elsewhere.

It was intended as humor to illustrate how Verizon forces manufacturers
to de-feature their phones before Verizon will sell them. Do you really
think Verizon wants to market any handset that lets users escape from
their network for any tasks?

It is alleged that Larry claimed:

> > You can definitely play native MP3s on all current iPods.
>
> Thanks! My buddy's little girl got a Nano for Christmas. I'll see if I
> can get her downloaded MP3s working on it this weekend.

Where were they downloaded from? If they are "rights protected" music
(Napster, eMusic, etc) then they will not play on the iPod. At all.
They will play on players from anyone else, though.

There are two mutually incompatible rights management schemes in use,
one from Microsoft and one from Apple, and music locked with one will
not work on the other's players. Guess which one the iPod uses.

Rhapsody is the only online store I know of that offers music in either
format, but you cannot choose on the fly, you need to set it as an
account preference. iTunes is Apple only, Napster, etc, are MS only.

Unprotected mp3s can be used on any player.

wma tracks, protected or not, will only work on players designed to
work with the MS rights scheme.

NOTE: I mention wma mainly because a lot of people don't actually
realize that music purchased from Napster, etc, is wma not mp3, and
music purchased from iTunes is some variant of acc, not mp3. The mp3
format does not actually have provisions for digital rights management.

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"Cyrus Afzali" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:26:55 -0700, Todd Allcock
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>At 10 Jan 2007 13:58:29 -0800 Edgar wrote:
>>
>>> non-replaceable batteries,
>>
>>A poor choice, IMO as well, but frankly it's sometimes necessary on small
>>devices, where the battery compartment and spring loaded connectors can
>>waste precious space. It's an owner convenience vs. a little more
>>battery life issue. (Well, in this case it was probably a "doesn't it
>>look even sleeker without a removeable battery door" issue!)
>
> Obviously I can't speak to the iPhone since it's not out, but it's a
> bit of a misnomer that the iPod has irreplaceable batteries. The
> better way to say that is batteries that can't easily be replaced by
> the end user. FWIW, I've had my second-generation iPod since 2004, use
> it a great deal, and the battery's still kicking.
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>

But isn't there a market right now for people carrying around spare
batteries to be able to continue to use their phone even after the first has
died. All of my creative MP3 players have had replaceable batteries (by the
user) and I have bought extra in order to keep the music going. I'd rather
have the choice personally, but again IMO.



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"Todd Allcock" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> At 10 Jan 2007 13:58:29 -0800 Edgar wrote:
>
>> I tend to think, IMO of course, that the thing is crippled by iTunes,
>
> How is that crippling anymore than, say, a WinMo device is crippled by
> requiring Acticvesync? You need some computer interface to get stuff
> on/off the phone.
>

I agree, I would prefer to just have a phone that plugs in and looks like an
external hard drive, which either of these could do. It is possible to do
it with a WM5 phone but only to get to the storage card. Still, once I am
connected through active sync I can do whatever the heck I want with it,
even just drop songs onto the storage card or the device.

>> the Cingular network,
>
> It has to run on some network...
>

How bout all of them

>> non-replaceable batteries,
>
> A poor choice, IMO as well, but frankly it's sometimes necessary on small
> devices, where the battery compartment and spring loaded connectors can
> waste precious space. It's an owner convenience vs. a little more
> battery life issue. (Well, in this case it was probably a "doesn't it
> look even sleeker without a removeable battery door" issue!)
>
>> most likely a closed system
>> where only widgets are allowed (no real programs), but that's just me.
>
>
> That's also just speculation. 3rd party developers have managed to
> create a thriving software community for iPod add-ons- they must be
> chafing at the bit to develop for this thing!
>

I am sure it will happen, heck they might even get linux on it. Except I
wouldn't risk doing anything funny on a 600 dollar device. I wonder if it
has everything on ROM so you can restore the thing if you screw it up?

>> Seems like Apple is doing a good enough job crippling it on their own
>> without Cingulars help.
>
> That remains to be seen. I suspect the hackers will have this thing
> unlocked within weeks of it's release, and/or offshore grey-market
> unlocked versions offered by foreign carriers will be sold here at a
> premium virtually instantaneously.
>
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>

I guess so, I'd rather just have the ability to do what I want right out of
the box, which is pretty much what my PDA does (not everything, but almost
everything).

--
Edgar



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<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 07:23:17 -0800, SMS <[email protected]>
> imagined:
> Also interesting that Apple, first shot out of the box has a better
> PDA/Phone etc, than Microsoft has with Windows CE 5.

And you've used it already? Please tell us in which ways it is "already"
better than Windows CE. I am not a Microsoft shill, but I like my little
phone and it has done everything and more I've expected of it, including
putting whatever the hell I want on it.

Let's wait to actually see this thing in action before we can say it's
"better" than anything. My prediction is it will be another great iPod but
lacking as an actual PDA and phone. Still 8GB is not nearly enough space to
watch videos on such a gorgeous screen. Again purely guessing here as I
haven't even seen the thing beyond pictures, and the Apple iPhone website
crashes every browser on my computer thanks to QuickTime (funny that).

--
Edgar



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At 11 Jan 2007 11:35:53 -0800 Edgar wrote:

> > It has to run on some network...
> >
>
> How bout all of them

It will, provided Cingular has a roaming agreement with them! ;-)

> I guess so, I'd rather just have the ability to do what I want right
out of
> the box, which is pretty much what my PDA does (not everything, but
almost
> everything).

Hey, you're preaching to the choir, my friend... I'm posting this from my
HTC Wizard right now! This morning before getting out of bed, I watched
my favorite episode of "Coupling" on it ("Inferno," for those curious;
"and if you don't like it, darling, go join a film collective!"), and
earlier, while browsing the usenet groups, a work call came in, which I
took, found the needed info in an Excel file on the Wizard, solved the
minor work crisis, hung up and started reading usenet again, all without
getting off the couch.

iPhone? We don't need no steenking iPhone! ;-)

Seriously, though, any development in improving portable devices improves
all of them eventually. Many things will be right about iPhone, and some
will be wrong, and manufacturers will integrate the right ones into
future designs. Hopefully the seemingly excellent browser and e-mail
clients in the iPhone will slap developers at MS upside the head and
convince them that today's devices with 400MHz+ processors, 128MB of RAM,
and a VGA screen should include apps at least as robust as Win95 machines
were able to handle! These things are small powerful multitasking
computers- not glorified PC file viewers for pete's sake! Let's stop
treating them like v.1 Palm Pilots with a media player built-in! (Ok,
rant over!)




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At 11 Jan 2007 11:29:57 -0800 Edgar wrote:

> But isn't there a market right now for people carrying around spare
> batteries to be able to continue to use their phone even after the
first has
> died. All of my creative MP3 players have had replaceable batteries
(by the
> user) and I have bought extra in order to keep the music going. I'd
rather
> have the choice personally, but again IMO.

Sure, but the problem is easily remedied by a portable auxiliary charger,
like the Energizer battery people sell. I used to have an iPaq/Axim
compatible auxiliary charger that used 4 AA rechargable batteries. I
rarely used it, so I haven't bothered finding a compatible replacement
for my Wizard- but I do tend to charge the Wiz with the lighter plug
whenever I'm in the car. The always-on push e-mail has really reduced
battery life. I turned all automatic GPRS data off (push e-mail, and
IMAP e-mail auto retrieval) on a trip to Cancun last week (to avoid
$15/mb roaming charges) and found my battery was still at 75-80% at days'
end instead of the 40-50% I usually have! I think I'll change the push e-
mail settings to "check every 15 min." instead of "as items arrive" and
see how that does.


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[email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 15:38:34 -0800, SMS <[email protected]>
> wrote:

>>> It's listed as a GSM device,
>>> so probably only for Cingular for widest customer base.
>> The strangest thing is that it's not 3G. It's only EDGE.
>
>
> Ummm.. It's also WiFi 802.11c and g

That's all fine and good, but the point of a data enabled PHONE is the
ability to use data when you're not within a WiFi hotspot area, as well
as when you're inside of one.

Considering that most WiFi hotspots are for-pay T-Mobile areas, and the
phone is Cingualr, I also doubt web surfing at places like airports, B&N
and Starbucks is free. So let's consider this: Apple wants me to pay
$600 for a phone, plus $40 a month for slow EDGE data, PLUS $9.99 for
every visit I make to a Starbucks to use their WiFi.

Again, no thanks. I'll stick to my Blackberry 8703e.

You know, the cool factor of the iPhone is nice and all, but it amazes
me how many people are blinded by the sleek curves and absolutely refuse
to analyze the realities of what is required to use this device to its
full potential. WiFi spots are only "free" in places where they're not
the most convenient,. and the palces where you DO want to use them often
charge for usage. And EDGE, is EDGE. It's slow, and after having used
3G, it's the equivalent of throwing out my cable modem in favor of
dialup. Why Apple wouldn't at least throw in an HSDPA radio (and thus
justify the price tag) is beyond me.




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ru2b12 wrote:

>>> Ummm.. It's also WiFi 802.11c and g
>> Yes, but why wouldn't they include 3G so that it can use Cingular's
>> HSDPA networks. EDGE is too slow. The original reports on the iPhone
>> said that there would be two versions, a lower cost EDGE version, and a
>> higher cost 3G version. Maybe the 3G version is the follow-on product,
>> but spending $600 for a phone without 3G is ludicrous.
>
> During the presentation it was mentioned that there will be 3G support
> though no timetable was given.

According to CNN, not till 2009.

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[email protected] wrote:

> Name another phone that dioes Google Maps.

All Blackberry 7100 series and 8700 series
Moto RAZR, KRZR, SLVR series
All Samsung EVDO phones
Any Java enabled phone.

There are also lots of other phones that do MP3, Blackberry, video and
PIM functions. They may not do it with an Apple logo etched on the back
casing, but they do them well.

Apple has done well to equate themselves with chic though, and to
distrot reality so much that people will blindly believe that Apple
invented the smartphone before Palm, Blackberry and Windows Mobile. I'm
sure if Steve Jobs wanted to sell wads of used chewing gum on wooden
sticks, all he's have to do is etch the Apple logo on the stick, put the
slogan "Gum, Reinvented" underneath, and he could sell that to the
crazed masses for $600 a pop too.

> They are hints and rumors that 3G and GPS are
> on the way, whether that can be done by firmware upgrade or next years

HSDPA requires a whole new chipset. A firmware upgrade won't cut it.

Remember folks, this is Apple. If you want an "upgrade," you're going
to have to ditch your old model and pay full price for the new one.
Every time.


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[email protected] wrote:

> Also interesting that Apple, first shot out of the box has a better
> PDA/Phone etc, than Microsoft has with Windows CE 5.

From the initial specifications, the iPhone is a significantly poorer
PDA than the Palm and PocketPC PDAs Of course the reason for this is
that it isn't a PDA at all, it's a mobile phone, a wide screen iPod, and
an Internet communication device.

On an actual PDA, you can load a gazillion different applications to
suit your needs. I.e. on my PDA, I can plug in a GPS card, and it's a
navigation system. I can plug in a remote control card, and its a
universal remote. It can browse the web over the WiFi connection. It
takes memory cards for expandability. It will play MP3s, but not well,
since the amplifier isn't powerful enough, so you need amplified
headphones to make it usable.

Unfortunately, we're still at the point where you're better off with
separate devices for separate function, if you want no-compromise
performance for each function.

If you want the best wireless coverage in the U.S., you go with a
tri-band phone from Verizon, such as the V325i

If you want the best PDA functionality, get something like an iPAQ.

If you want the best music player, get an iPod or a Sansa.