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- 10-25-2007, 04:57 PM #16CozmicDebrisGuest
Re: iPhone bricks - more info
"IMHO IIRC" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> In
> news:[email protected],
> Oxford <[email protected]> typed:
>> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>> Ah, you might want to talk to the inventor. Woz... or read the
>>>> book:
>>>>
>>>> iWoz: From Computer Geek to Cult Icon: How I Invented the Personal
>>>> Computer, Co-Founded Apple, and Had Fun Doing It
>>>>
>>>> Woz is widely credited to creating the first personal computer.
>>>>
>>>> I was around at that time too, and he was the first one to do it.
>>>
>>> Just when I think Oxford has said the ultimate in stupid things, he
>>> one-ups himself.
>>
>> then take that up with computer historians, Woz, and everyone else.
>> i'm just repeating the facts.
>>
>> if you can find a full fledged personal computer that had an actual
>> case, screen output, keyboard, cassette input and sold on a massive
>> scale before April 1st, 1976... I'm sure people would love to know
>> your 2nd secret you keep hiding from everyone.
>>
>> -
>
> The Apple I computer designed by Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak, the
> most famous members of the Homebrew Computer Club, over 30 years ago,
> in 1976. It was mostly a kit computer. Users bought the workings and
> built their own case.
> http://www.our-picks.com/archives/20...ple-computer-3
> 0-years-ago-photo/
>
> The Commodore PET, Announced and demonstrated in January of 1977 at
> the Consumer Electronics Show in Chicago, months before the Apple II,
> meets your specs.
>
>
>
>
Gee, Oxford. It looks like you just got caught with your pants down (was
Kurt spanking your monkey?). This would also seem to disprove your claim
of being around at that time, as those of that were clearly remember this.
Your spotty knowledge base seems to indicate that you are simply reading
the history and did not live it.
› See More: iPhone bricks - more info
- 10-25-2007, 06:06 PM #17OxfordGuest
Re: iPhone bricks - more info
"IMHO IIRC" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> The Commodore PET, Announced and demonstrated in January of 1977 at the
> Consumer Electronics Show in Chicago, months before the Apple II, meets your
> specs.
but didn't ship until September of 1977, thus the 2nd personal computer.
nice try IMHO IIRC! but you need to learn the history of computing
before you make further mistakes.
-
- 10-25-2007, 06:19 PM #18Ness_netGuest
Re: iPhone bricks - more info
"IMHO IIRC" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> The Apple I computer designed by Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak, the most famous members of the Homebrew Computer Club,
> over 30 years ago, in 1976. It was mostly a kit computer. Users bought the workings and built their own case.
> http://www.our-picks.com/archives/20...ars-ago-photo/
>
> The Commodore PET, Announced and demonstrated in January of 1977 at the Consumer Electronics Show in Chicago, months
> before the Apple II, meets your specs.
>
>
'Trash 80'????
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Trinity
1977 Trinity is a name given by Byte Magazine to three personal computers released
in 1977 which competed heavily for the emerging assembled microcomputer market.
They were in alphabetical order the Apple II, Commodore PET 2001 and the TRS-80 Model I.
I'd also add that the 8080 itself had a HUGE influence and thus Intel was born.
Leading to the Pentium - an item that cannot be ignored in this discussion.
- 10-25-2007, 06:22 PM #19CozmicDebrisGuest
Re: iPhone bricks - more info
"Ness_net" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> "IMHO IIRC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> The Apple I computer designed by Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak, the
>> most famous members of the Homebrew Computer Club, over 30 years ago,
>> in 1976. It was mostly a kit computer. Users bought the workings and
>> built their own case.
>> http://www.our-picks.com/archives/20...pple-computer-
>> 30-years-ago-photo/
>>
>> The Commodore PET, Announced and demonstrated in January of 1977 at
>> the Consumer Electronics Show in Chicago, months before the Apple II,
>> meets your specs.
>>
>>
>
> 'Trash 80'????
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Trinity
> 1977 Trinity is a name given by Byte Magazine to three personal
> computers released
> in 1977 which competed heavily for the emerging assembled
> microcomputer market.
> They were in alphabetical order the Apple II, Commodore PET 2001 and
> the TRS-80 Model I.
>
>
> I'd also add that the 8080 itself had a HUGE influence and thus Intel
> was born. Leading to the Pentium - an item that cannot be ignored in
> this discussion.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Agreed. Personal computing (including Apples) didn't truly perform until
the Pentium was released. That was the final blow to Apple's dominance.
- 10-25-2007, 06:53 PM #20Mark CrispinGuest
Re: iPhone bricks - more info
On Thu, 25 Oct 2007, Oxford wrote:
> "IMHO IIRC" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> The Commodore PET, Announced and demonstrated in January of 1977 at the
>> Consumer Electronics Show in Chicago, months before the Apple II, meets your
>> specs.
> but didn't ship until September of 1977, thus the 2nd personal computer.
Not by a long shot.
The Altair was out in January 1975, followed in August 1975 by the IMSAI
8080.
The PDP-8 (introduced in 1965) was a personal computer, especially the
PDP-8/e/f/m and PDP-8/a.
Xerox had the Alto in 1973. The Alto was so great that Apple copied it a
decade later to create Lisa (later Macintosh). It had a GUI text editor
complete with fonts, and even its own version of Space Invaders and Maze
Wars. Alto was also the client platform for which Ethernet was invented.
I forget when the IMLAC PDS-1 came out, but that too was a personal
computer and it preceeded the Alto.
The Datapoint 2200 (anyone remember those?) was arguably a personal
computer, and came out in 1970.
Although somewhat large, the IBM 1130 was also arguably a personal
computer and that was late 1960s/early 1970s. I vividly remember
APL\1130, a largely compatible single-user version of APL\360. The 1130
was a bit large and power hungry for home use though...
The earliest that I can find of a reference to the term "personal
computer" is a New York Times article in 1962. In the mid 1970s, lots of
people were talking about personal computers and how to internetwork (note
the small "i") them. IIRC, REM's PCNET mailing list appeared in 1974 or
1975.
The main thing introduced by the Apple ][, Commodore Pet, Atari 800, IBM
PC, etc. was the transformation of personal computers from being the
province of hobbyists and research labs to being home appliances. There
is no doubt that the Apple ][ played a significant part. Similarly, the
IBM PC some years later established the multi-vendor standardization
necessary for PCs to be successful business tools.
These were important contributions; but in the environment of the 1970s
these developments were inevitable. Lots of people were working on, and
talking about, personal computers.
This is perhaps fortunate, because if Apple had "invented" the personal
computer, it would have been patented and prevented the vigorous
competition that created the industry we know today. Yet another example
of the benefit of open design over closed design.
-- Mark --
http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.
- 10-25-2007, 09:21 PM #21IMHO IIRCGuest
Re: iPhone bricks - more info
In news:[email protected],
Oxford <[email protected]> typed:
> "IMHO IIRC" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> The Commodore PET, Announced and demonstrated in January of 1977 at the
>> Consumer Electronics Show in Chicago, months before the Apple II, meets
>> your specs.
>
> but didn't ship until September of 1977, thus the 2nd personal computer.
>
> nice try IMHO IIRC! but you need to learn the history of computing
> before you make further mistakes.
>
So the answer to your original question is: there was NO full fledged
personal computer that had an actual case, screen output, keyboard &
cassette input sold before June 1977. lol
- 10-25-2007, 09:35 PM #22Mark CrispinGuest
Re: iPhone bricks - more info
On Thu, 25 Oct 2007, IMHO IIRC wrote:
> So the answer to your original question is: there was NO full fledged
> personal computer that had an actual case, screen output, keyboard &
> cassette input sold before June 1977. lol
That's only because you restricted the mass storage to cassette. If you
allow hard disk, floppy, or random-access tape then there are multiple
personal computers earlier than June 1977.
-- Mark --
http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.
- 10-25-2007, 10:24 PM #23IMHO IIRCGuest
Re: iPhone bricks - more info
In news:[email protected],
Mark Crispin <[email protected]> typed:
> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007, IMHO IIRC wrote:
>> So the answer to your original question is: there was NO full fledged
>> personal computer that had an actual case, screen output, keyboard &
>> cassette input sold before June 1977. lol
>
> That's only because you restricted the mass storage to cassette. If you
> allow hard disk, floppy, or random-access tape then there are multiple
> personal computers earlier than June 1977.
>
> -- Mark --
>
> http://panda.com/mrc
> Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
> Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.
The Datapoint 2200 did have cassette data storage in addition to optional
disk drives.
So it does indeed meet the specs that Oxford quoted.
It was introduced in 1971.
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=596
- 10-26-2007, 09:21 AM #24OxfordGuest
Re: iPhone bricks - more info
In article <[email protected]>,
Mark Crispin <[email protected]> wrote:
> Not by a long shot.
>
> The Altair was out in January 1975, followed in August 1975 by the IMSAI
> 8080.
didn't have a keyboard or a screen or a floppy drive, or any drive.
until much, much later. the apple ][ was the first PC, you need to
accept history, not try and be a revisionist.
> The PDP-8 (introduced in 1965) was a personal computer, especially the
> PDP-8/e/f/m and PDP-8/a.
riiiiiight, it was about as personal as an aircraft carrier. can't
believe you even tried to include mini-computers as PCs. funny!
> Xerox had the Alto in 1973. The Alto was so great that Apple copied it a
> decade later to create Lisa (later Macintosh). It had a GUI text editor
> complete with fonts, and even its own version of Space Invaders and Maze
> Wars. Alto was also the client platform for which Ethernet was invented.
the Alto was never sold, nor was it "personal".
> I forget when the IMLAC PDS-1 came out, but that too was a personal
> computer and it preceeded the Alto.
not a personal computer however.
> The Datapoint 2200 (anyone remember those?) was arguably a personal
> computer, and came out in 1970.
it was just a terminal.
> Although somewhat large, the IBM 1130 was also arguably a personal
> computer and that was late 1960s/early 1970s. I vividly remember
> APL\1130, a largely compatible single-user version of APL\360. The 1130
> was a bit large and power hungry for home use though...
yes, and the IBM System 36 was a personal computer correct?
> The earliest that I can find of a reference to the term "personal
> computer" is a New York Times article in 1962. In the mid 1970s, lots of
> people were talking about personal computers and how to internetwork (note
> the small "i") them. IIRC, REM's PCNET mailing list appeared in 1974 or
> 1975.
but none are regarded as personal computers. that happened with the
Apple ][. learn your history mark.
> The main thing introduced by the Apple ][, Commodore Pet, Atari 800, IBM
> PC, etc. was the transformation of personal computers from being the
> province of hobbyists and research labs to being home appliances. There
> is no doubt that the Apple ][ played a significant part. Similarly, the
> IBM PC some years later established the multi-vendor standardization
> necessary for PCs to be successful business tools.
good, now you are starting to catch on.
> These were important contributions; but in the environment of the 1970s
> these developments were inevitable. Lots of people were working on, and
> talking about, personal computers.
sure, but the Apple ][ was the definitive machine that sold millions all
the way up to 1993, it is considered the "first true" personal computer
by all historians. Its original design is what many PCs sold today still
use.
> This is perhaps fortunate, because if Apple had "invented" the personal
> computer, it would have been patented and prevented the vigorous
> competition that created the industry we know today. Yet another example
> of the benefit of open design over closed design.
well, they invented the first personal computer that sold in large
volumes, had tons of "personal" software and went on to form the
foundation that IBM later copied with their IBM PC in 1981.
-
- 10-26-2007, 09:53 AM #25IMHO IIRCGuest
Re: iPhone bricks - more info
In news:[email protected],
Oxford <[email protected]> typed:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Mark Crispin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> SNIP <<<
>
>> The Datapoint 2200 (anyone remember those?) was arguably a personal
>> computer, and came out in 1970.
>
> it was just a terminal.
>
Yes it had that function just like PCs and Macs do today.
But it would run also stand alone applications.
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=596
- 10-26-2007, 10:23 AM #26§Guest
Re: iPhone bricks - more info
Oxford wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Mark Crispin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Not by a long shot.
>>
>> The Altair was out in January 1975, followed in August 1975 by the IMSAI
>> 8080.
>
> didn't have a keyboard or a screen or a floppy drive, or any drive.
> until much, much later. the apple ][ was the first PC, you need to
> accept history, not try and be a revisionist.
>
>> The PDP-8 (introduced in 1965) was a personal computer, especially the
>> PDP-8/e/f/m and PDP-8/a.
>
> riiiiiight, it was about as personal as an aircraft carrier. can't
> believe you even tried to include mini-computers as PCs. funny!
What's funny is I know someone that is running one in his basement.
>
>> Xerox had the Alto in 1973. The Alto was so great that Apple copied it a
>> decade later to create Lisa (later Macintosh). It had a GUI text editor
>> complete with fonts, and even its own version of Space Invaders and Maze
>> Wars. Alto was also the client platform for which Ethernet was invented.
>
> the Alto was never sold, nor was it "personal".
>
>> I forget when the IMLAC PDS-1 came out, but that too was a personal
>> computer and it preceeded the Alto.
>
> not a personal computer however.
>
>> The Datapoint 2200 (anyone remember those?) was arguably a personal
>> computer, and came out in 1970.
>
> it was just a terminal.
>
fyi
http://www.americanheritage.com/arti...994_2_64.shtml
I have one in storage....somewheres.
- 10-26-2007, 12:27 PM #27OxfordGuest
Re: iPhone bricks - more info
§ <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> The PDP-8 (introduced in 1965) was a personal computer, especially the
> >> PDP-8/e/f/m and PDP-8/a.
> >
> > riiiiiight, it was about as personal as an aircraft carrier. can't
> > believe you even tried to include mini-computers as PCs. funny!
>
> What's funny is I know someone that is running one in his basement.
yeah, they show up on ebay once in awhile. such a fun relic.
> >
>
> fyi
>
> http://www.americanheritage.com/arti...994_2_64.shtml
>
> I have one in storage....somewheres.
yes, too bad it never sold, thus isn't considered the first personal
computer. that title is well reserved for Woz and his breakthrough Apple
| and ][.
he's the guy that was able to reduce the chip count to such extreme
levels to make all PCs finally possible.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_what_...ed_and_by_whom
engineers still study and marvel at Woz's designs, he one of the true
geniuses of our age. he did what nobody else could do before... make the
first PC for the masses.
-
- 10-26-2007, 12:49 PM #28OxfordGuest
Re: iPhone bricks - more info
"IMHO IIRC" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > but didn't ship until September of 1977, thus the 2nd personal computer.
> >
> > nice try IMHO IIRC! but you need to learn the history of computing
> > before you make further mistakes.
> >
>
> So the answer to your original question is: there was NO full fledged
> personal computer that had an actual case, screen output, keyboard &
> cassette input sold before June 1977. lol
none that can be traced back to something resembling the Apple ][, which
became the de-facto standard still in use today.
yes, 1977 with the Apple ][ is the primary root upon all other PCs were
built.
now you know!
-
- 10-26-2007, 04:06 PM #29Steve SobolGuest
Re: iPhone bricks - more info
["Followup-To:" header set to alt.cellular.sprintpcs.]
On 2007-10-26, Oxford <[email protected]> wrote:
> yes, 1977 with the Apple ][ is the primary root upon all other PCs were
> built.
Uhhh,
Again, I'm not an Apple basher - during my teenage years, my family owned
a Franklin 1000 (IIe clone) and a II GS and I loved both - but I need to
point out that the original IBM PC had very little in common with the ][.
--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com
SoCal Fire news @the L.A. Times: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/breakingnews/
Local wildfire coverage, KFMB-TV San Diego: http://cbs8.com/
- 10-26-2007, 05:57 PM #30MaverickGuest
Re: iPhone bricks - more info
Oxford wrote:
> § <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>>>The PDP-8 (introduced in 1965) was a personal computer, especially the
>>>>PDP-8/e/f/m and PDP-8/a.
>>>
>>>riiiiiight, it was about as personal as an aircraft carrier. can't
>>>believe you even tried to include mini-computers as PCs. funny!
>>
>>What's funny is I know someone that is running one in his basement.
>
>
> yeah, they show up on ebay once in awhile. such a fun relic.
>
>
>>fyi
>>
>>http://www.americanheritage.com/arti...994_2_64.shtml
>>
>>I have one in storage....somewheres.
>
>
> yes, too bad it never sold, thus isn't considered the first personal
> computer. that title is well reserved for Woz and his breakthrough Apple
> | and ][.
Doing the sock-puppet shuffle eh Oxretard?
It did sell, otherwise it would never have been mentioned.
<snip>
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