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  1. #1
    John Navas
    Guest
    On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 01:24:21 +0000, Larry <[email protected]> wrote in
    <[email protected]>:

    >John Navas <[email protected]> wrote in
    >news:[email protected]:
    >
    >> bidders were required to fork over an
    >> "upfront payment" prior to the actual auction, and you have to wonder
    >> if Frontline was able to pay up.


    >This was setup by the big boys to keep the little guys from bidding....same
    >as Broadcasting. Big corporations with BIG, DEEP pockets full of money for
    >political hacks to be paid from is all Washington is about.


    Not so:
    * Auctioning spectrum ensures the most efficient use of that spectrum.
    * Up front cash is just prudent auction practice, to avoid disruption of
    the auction process by those that can't really afford to bid.

    --
    Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>



    See More: NEWS: Frontline Wireless bombs out




  2. #2
    danny burstein
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Frontline Wireless bombs out

    In <[email protected]> John Navas <[email protected]> writes:
    [ snip ]

    >>This was setup by the big boys to keep the little guys from bidding....same
    >>as Broadcasting. Big corporations with BIG, DEEP pockets full of money for
    >>political hacks to be paid from is all Washington is about.


    >Not so:
    >* Auctioning spectrum ensures the most efficient use of that spectrum.
    >* Up front cash is just prudent auction practice, to avoid disruption of
    >the auction process by those that can't really afford to bid.


    or... to prevent a repeat of the debacle with NextWave,
    which bid oodles of money last time around, didn't pay up,
    and somehow got the US Supreme Court to rule that they
    still "owned" the unpaid for frequencies.


    --
    _____________________________________________________
    Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
    [email protected]
    [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]



  3. #3
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Frontline Wireless bombs out

    John Navas <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > Not so:
    > * Auctioning spectrum ensures the most efficient use of that spectrum.
    > * Up front cash is just prudent auction practice, to avoid disruption of
    > the auction process by those that can't really afford to bid.
    >
    >


    So:
    Auctioning spectrum should be forbidden. It's NOT the government's
    airwaves, it's the PUBLIC's. They don't auction off Yellowstone National
    Park to Holiday Inn, because Yellowstone belongs to the PUBLIC, dammit.
    This bull**** of selling the PUBLIC's airwaves to shore up the bloating
    government bureaucracy of the Illuminati ISN'T why the FCC was created. It
    all happened when the greedy lawyers ran the engineers, who made America's
    wireless systems so great, out of the FCC and took over. Now, everything's
    for sale before the government finally bankrupts the country giving
    everything we have to the international bankers.

    Once FCC loses control of frequencies that "belong" to someone else,
    consumer protection stops....exactly what corporate America has been after
    since the first radio station came on the air.

    Larry
    --
    As the price of Monopoly money rises, at some point it will equal
    Federal Reserve Private Bank fake banknotes in value!



  4. #4
    News
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Frontline Wireless bombs out



    Larry wrote:
    > So:
    > Auctioning spectrum should be forbidden. It's NOT the government's
    > airwaves, it's the PUBLIC's. They don't auction off Yellowstone National
    > Park to Holiday Inn, because Yellowstone belongs to the PUBLIC, dammit.
    > This bull**** of selling the PUBLIC's airwaves to shore up the bloating
    > government bureaucracy of the Illuminati ISN'T why the FCC was created. It
    > all happened when the greedy lawyers ran the engineers, who made America's
    > wireless systems so great, out of the FCC and took over. Now, everything's
    > for sale before the government finally bankrupts the country giving
    > everything we have to the international bankers.
    >
    > Once FCC loses control of frequencies that "belong" to someone else,
    > consumer protection stops....exactly what corporate America has been after
    > since the first radio station came on the air.
    >
    > Larry



    Y'all don't understand. It's the Dumbyican "free market" way...



  5. #5
    Aaron Leonard
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Frontline Wireless bombs out

    You lost me at "Illuminati".

    ----


    ~ John Navas <[email protected]> wrote in
    ~ news:[email protected]:
    ~
    ~ > Not so:
    ~ > * Auctioning spectrum ensures the most efficient use of that spectrum.
    ~ > * Up front cash is just prudent auction practice, to avoid disruption of
    ~ > the auction process by those that can't really afford to bid.
    ~ >
    ~ >
    ~
    ~ So:
    ~ Auctioning spectrum should be forbidden. It's NOT the government's
    ~ airwaves, it's the PUBLIC's. They don't auction off Yellowstone National
    ~ Park to Holiday Inn, because Yellowstone belongs to the PUBLIC, dammit.
    ~ This bull**** of selling the PUBLIC's airwaves to shore up the bloating
    ~ government bureaucracy of the Illuminati ISN'T why the FCC was created. It
    ~ all happened when the greedy lawyers ran the engineers, who made America's
    ~ wireless systems so great, out of the FCC and took over. Now, everything's
    ~ for sale before the government finally bankrupts the country giving
    ~ everything we have to the international bankers.
    ~
    ~ Once FCC loses control of frequencies that "belong" to someone else,
    ~ consumer protection stops....exactly what corporate America has been after
    ~ since the first radio station came on the air.
    ~
    ~ Larry




  6. #6
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Frontline Wireless bombs out

    Aaron Leonard <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > You lost me at "Illuminati".
    >
    > -


    You need to come out from under that rock more often.



    Larry
    --
    As the price of Monopoly money rises, at some point it will equal
    Federal Reserve Private Bank fake banknotes in value!



  7. #7
    Mark McIntyre
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Frontline Wireless bombs out

    John Navas wrote:
    > On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 01:24:21 +0000, Larry <[email protected]> wrote in
    > <[email protected]>:
    >
    >> John Navas <[email protected]> wrote in
    >> news:[email protected]:
    >>
    >>> bidders were required to fork over an
    >>> "upfront payment" prior to the actual auction, and you have to wonder
    >>> if Frontline was able to pay up.

    >
    >> This was setup by the big boys to keep the little guys from bidding....same
    >> as Broadcasting. Big corporations with BIG, DEEP pockets full of money for
    >> political hacks to be paid from is all Washington is about.

    >
    > Not so:
    > * Auctioning spectrum ensures the most efficient use of that spectrum.


    Not really - the 3G auction in the UK is a case in point. The spectrum
    is sitting empty, and likely to remain so, because nobody was interested
    in buying the overpriced services the auction "winners" wanted to sell....

    > * Up front cash is just prudent auction practice, to avoid disruption of
    > the auction process by those that can't really afford to bid.


    Thats the spin, certainly. The reality is that the upfront cash rule
    sets a barrier to participation and allows those who /are/ in to pay
    less as there's less competition.


    --
    Mark McIntyre

    CLC FAQ <http://c-faq.com/>
    CLC readme: <http://www.ungerhu.com/jxh/clc.welcome.txt>



  8. #8
    News
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Frontline Wireless bombs out



    Mark McIntyre wrote:

    > The reality is that the upfront cash rule
    > sets a barrier to participation and allows those who /are/ in to pay
    > less as there's less competition.
    >


    While making it appear to conform to institutional "free market" policy.



  9. #9
    Cubit
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Frontline Wireless bombs out

    Spectrum is infrastructure. It should not be taxed.

    That having been said, I don't have a scheme for fair allocation.


    "John Navas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 01:24:21 +0000, Larry <[email protected]> wrote in
    > <[email protected]>:
    >
    >>John Navas <[email protected]> wrote in
    >>news:[email protected]:
    >>
    >>> bidders were required to fork over an
    >>> "upfront payment" prior to the actual auction, and you have to wonder
    >>> if Frontline was able to pay up.

    >
    >>This was setup by the big boys to keep the little guys from
    >>bidding....same
    >>as Broadcasting. Big corporations with BIG, DEEP pockets full of money
    >>for
    >>political hacks to be paid from is all Washington is about.

    >
    > Not so:
    > * Auctioning spectrum ensures the most efficient use of that spectrum.
    > * Up front cash is just prudent auction practice, to avoid disruption of
    > the auction process by those that can't really afford to bid.
    >
    > --
    > Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
    > John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>






  10. #10
    George
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Frontline Wireless bombs out

    Cubit wrote:
    > Spectrum is infrastructure. It should not be taxed.
    >
    > That having been said, I don't have a scheme for fair allocation.
    >
    >

    Why not a lottery?

    Lets say we put a system in place where only responsible bidders can
    apply. This would be very similar to what is used for large construction
    projects where the concept of responsible bidders is used. In order to
    bid on a large project a contractor must show they have experience and
    resources.

    The same could be done here. Prospective operators would need to meet
    qualifications to enter a lottery run by a disinterested third party.

    The winner would not be required to "buy" the spectrum which is really
    just a disguised pre-paid tax on its future users but only a nominal
    application fee to cover the cost of the lottery.



  11. #11
    Mark McIntyre
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Frontline Wireless bombs out

    George wrote:
    > Cubit wrote:
    >> Spectrum is infrastructure. It should not be taxed.
    >>
    >> That having been said, I don't have a scheme for fair allocation.
    >>
    >>

    > Why not a lottery?
    >
    > Lets say we put a system in place where only responsible bidders can
    > apply. This would be very similar to what is used for large construction
    > projects where the concept of responsible bidders is used. In order to
    > bid on a large project a contractor must show they have experience and
    > resources.


    Problem there is - someone has to decide who is "responsible". In the
    absence of an open process, it would degenerate to politics. Some
    political appointee with no public presence would pick the shortlist.
    This is how it works in construction...




  12. #12
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Frontline Wireless bombs out

    At 09 Jan 2008 07:43:34 +0000 John Navas wrote:

    > >This was setup by the big boys to keep the little guys from
    > > bidding....same
    > >as Broadcasting. Big corporations with BIG, DEEP pockets full of money
    > > for political hacks to be paid from is all Washington is about.

    >
    > Not so:
    > * Auctioning spectrum ensures the most efficient use of that spectrum.



    How so? One could easily argue that money taints the process. Suppose, for
    example, a future cash-strapped administration decides the x# of billions
    another cellular band would bring in trumps it's current "profitless" use by,

    say, the military?

    Secondly, the auction payment is a barrier to actually deploying a service,
    since a company's resources are squandered by buying the spectrum before
    the first dollar is spent on actual infrastructure. This also drives up
    the cost of providing service, which utimately costs the very consumers
    who, as Larry points out, actually own the spectrum in the first place.)

    This can also stifle competition- it's in the best interests of, for example,

    AT&T and Verizon, to buy the spectrum to lock out additional future
    competitors like Google, Comcast or Echostar from upsetting their current
    practical duopoly. A more consumer-friendly FCC might enforce tighter
    spectrum limits to foster competition (I still can't believe they allow one
    company to control both 800-band cellular licenses in some areas!)


    > * Up front cash is just prudent auction practice, to avoid disruption of
    > the auction process by those that can't really afford to bid.



    True- as long as you're having an auction, there's nothing wrong with
    requiring a "deposit" to sit at the table. ;-)





  13. #13
    John Navas
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Frontline Wireless bombs out

    On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 07:57:29 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein
    <[email protected]> wrote in <[email protected]>:

    >In <[email protected]> John Navas <[email protected]> writes:
    >[ snip ]
    >
    >>>This was setup by the big boys to keep the little guys from bidding....same
    >>>as Broadcasting. Big corporations with BIG, DEEP pockets full of money for
    >>>political hacks to be paid from is all Washington is about.

    >
    >>Not so:
    >>* Auctioning spectrum ensures the most efficient use of that spectrum.
    >>* Up front cash is just prudent auction practice, to avoid disruption of
    >>the auction process by those that can't really afford to bid.

    >
    >or... to prevent a repeat of the debacle with NextWave,
    >which bid oodles of money last time around, didn't pay up,
    >and somehow got the US Supreme Court to rule that they
    >still "owned" the unpaid for frequencies.


    That's my 2nd point.

    --
    Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
    John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>



  14. #14
    News
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Frontline Wireless bombs out



    John Navas wrote:
    > On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 07:57:29 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein
    > <[email protected]> wrote in <[email protected]>:
    >
    >
    >>In <[email protected]> John Navas <[email protected]> writes:
    >>[ snip ]
    >>
    >>
    >>>>This was setup by the big boys to keep the little guys from bidding....same
    >>>>as Broadcasting. Big corporations with BIG, DEEP pockets full of money for
    >>>>political hacks to be paid from is all Washington is about.

    >>
    >>>Not so:
    >>>* Auctioning spectrum ensures the most efficient use of that spectrum.
    >>>* Up front cash is just prudent auction practice, to avoid disruption of
    >>>the auction process by those that can't really afford to bid.

    >>
    >>or... to prevent a repeat of the debacle with NextWave,
    >>which bid oodles of money last time around, didn't pay up,
    >>and somehow got the US Supreme Court to rule that they
    >>still "owned" the unpaid for frequencies.

    >
    >
    > That's my 2nd point.
    >


    A token down payment doesn't guarantee satisfaction of a higher bid.



  15. #15
    danny burstein
    Guest

    Re: NEWS: Frontline Wireless bombs out

    In <[email protected]> News <[email protected]> writes:
    >>>>the auction process by those that can't really afford to bid.
    >>>
    >>>or... to prevent a repeat of the debacle with NextWave,
    >>>which bid oodles of money last time around, didn't pay up,
    >>>and somehow got the US Supreme Court to rule that they
    >>>still "owned" the unpaid for frequencies.

    >>
    >> That's my 2nd point.


    >A token down payment doesn't guarantee satisfaction of a higher bid.


    It's the difference between a "no down payment mortgage"
    versus a 20 percenter. It's far from a perfect determinant,
    and has plenty of its own issues, but it's a realistic
    first step screen.

    --
    _____________________________________________________
    Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
    [email protected]
    [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]



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