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  1. #1
    e
    Guest
    Ten year business customer with many lines, Power Vision
    on this one with Treo 755p. I understand that Power
    Vision give me unlimited access to the web via the
    phone, plus email, etc.

    When I extended this contract and bought the Treo CSR
    told me that my account had a code that permitted
    "casual data" use, by which my new Treo could be used as
    a modem when traveling, etc.

    Last month I went on a trip and used the phone as a
    modem for 2-3 hours. The bill just arrived with a charge
    for $75 - entitled "PCS DATA".

    First, is there really such a thing as "casual data"?

    Second, what does it cost to have unlimited data?

    Third, is that $75 arguable?



    See More: "Casual Data" just cost me $75 for last billing period!!




  2. #2
    Jack Hamilton
    Guest

    Re: "Casual Data" just cost me $75 for last billing period!!

    e <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Ten year business customer with many lines, Power Vision
    >on this one with Treo 755p. I understand that Power
    >Vision give me unlimited access to the web via the
    >phone, plus email, etc.
    >
    >When I extended this contract and bought the Treo CSR
    >told me that my account had a code that permitted
    >"casual data" use, by which my new Treo could be used as
    >a modem when traveling, etc.
    >
    >Last month I went on a trip and used the phone as a
    >modem for 2-3 hours. The bill just arrived with a charge
    >for $75 - entitled "PCS DATA".
    >
    >First, is there really such a thing as "casual data"?


    Apparently so.

    Sprint considers phone-as-modem use to be something different from
    data-to-phone use. I'm not sure how you would know that - it used to
    be clear on the Sprint web site, but I just looked on their web site
    and it isn't clear now.

    >Second, what does it cost to have unlimited data?


    Depends on your base plan, but probably 39.95-59.95 per month.

    >Third, is that $75 arguable?


    It's always arguable. I don't know whether it's winnable, but being a
    long term customer with many lines might help. Just don't threaten
    them.



  3. #3
    DTC
    Guest

    Re: "Casual Data" just cost me $75 for last billing period!!

    e wrote:
    > Third, is that $75 arguable?


    No. The TOS prohibits tethering.



  4. #4
    larry
    Guest

    Re: "Casual Data" just cost me $75 for last billing period!!

    e <[email protected]> wrote in news:fn93nk$p6l$1
    @registered.motzarella.org:

    > Second, what does it cost to have unlimited data?
    >


    I don't know on Sprint PCS, but just for reference when talking this up
    with them, Alltel charges $10/month for unlimited data at 1X speed (about
    110Kbps) and $25/month for unlimited data at EVDO speed (around 700-800Kbps
    usually). Verizon wants $60/month for 5GB of only email and webpage spam.

    I'm using a MotoROKR Z6M as EVDO broadband via Bluetooth to a Nokia N800
    Linux internet tablet on Alltel. The phone can use the data, too, but
    phone apps just suck, compared to a real computer.

    I think you got screwed, personally, especially if you can nicely allude to
    moving your whole company comms to another carrier. Sprint, of ALL the
    carriers, now understands CHURNING, having lost hundreds of thousands and
    their stock crashing because of it. You're in a great position with a
    really long lever to pry at them with....(c;

    You didn't get screwed as bad as some iPhone owners. One kid took his
    iPhone to Europe and never used it. But, without his knowledge, the iPhone
    kept checking his email on all those systems it could and ATT billed him
    over $US4,200 when he got home! There's a great YouTube video showing off
    his bill...




  5. #5
    e
    Guest

    Re: "Casual Data" just cost me $75 for last billing period!!

    Thanks for the information.

    What IS "casual data"? I can't find a definition.

    When I talked with Sprint about using the 755p as a
    modem while traveling, the CSR said that would be fine
    and did not try to sell me a data plan. And, there's no
    doubt about the promise that "a code is on your account
    permitting casual data..."



  6. #6
    none
    Guest

    Re: "Casual Data" just cost me $75 for last billing period!!

    "e" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Last month I went on a trip and used the phone as a modem for 2-3 hours.
    > The bill just arrived with a charge for $75 - entitled "PCS DATA".


    This is quite odd. Are you sure that they're charging you for the modem use
    specifically and it's not just some screw-up involving Power Vision being
    incorrectly applied to your account? I use my phone as a modem whenever my
    DSL goes down and I've never been charged for it.

    ~None





  7. #7
    Seth Goodman
    Guest

    Re: "Casual Data" just cost me $75 for last billing period!!

    In article <[email protected]> on Thu, 24 Jan 2008
    08:07:12 -0800, e wrote:

    > Thanks for the information.
    >
    > What IS "casual data"? I can't find a definition.
    >
    > When I talked with Sprint about using the 755p as a
    > modem while traveling, the CSR said that would be fine
    > and did not try to sell me a data plan. And, there's no
    > doubt about the promise that "a code is on your account
    > permitting casual data..."
    >


    You might have more success posting this question to the Sprint forum at
    www.howardforums.com. There's a much larger user base, including Sprint
    employees, on that forum.

    I don't know the full answer to your question, but here's my imperfect
    attempt:

    1) Modem use is a special case of data use. The unlimited data in your
    Power Vision plan doesn't cover modem use. All the carriers (AFAIK)
    charge separately for modem use, not just Sprint.

    2)"Casual" data is data charged at an ala carte rate when you don't have
    a specific plan. IIRC, casual modem use is $.05 per KB, though I can't
    tell you why I think that.

    Normally, using your phone as modem is prohibited unless you have a
    $30/month phone-as-modem (PAM) plan,which gives you unlimited modem use.
    This prohibition is not just contractual - apparently when you use your
    phone as a modem, there is some kind of accompanying "signal" that tells
    Sprint that's what you're trying to do. When the system detects the
    "signal", it checks if you are permitted to use your phone as modem. If
    not, you get blocked.

    In your case, apparently you've been set up as allowed to use your phone
    as a modem, so Sprint won't block that use. However, since you don't
    have a PAM plan, you're paying the casual data rate.

    How often do you use the phone as modem? If it truly is very limited,
    it may make sense to pay the occasional charge, even $75, rather than
    $30 every month.

    If you call Sprint and explain that you didn't understand the potential
    for high charges, they may be willing to help you out, especially if you
    decide to add the $30 PAM plan to your phone. They might be willing to
    add the plan retroactively.

    --
    Seth Goodman



  8. #8
    none
    Guest

    Re: "Casual Data" just cost me $75 for last billing period!!

    "Seth Goodman" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > This prohibition is not just contractual - apparently when you use your
    > phone as a modem, there is some kind of accompanying "signal" that tells
    > Sprint that's what you're trying to do. When the system detects the
    > "signal", it checks if you are permitted to use your phone as modem. If
    > not, you get blocked.


    This sounds like BS to me. How can sprint tell that your phone is doing NAT
    masquerading for other devices?

    ~None





  9. #9
    DTC
    Guest

    Re: "Casual Data" just cost me $75 for last billing period!!

    Paul Miner wrote:
    > On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 22:52:55 -0600, DTC <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> e wrote:
    >>> Third, is that $75 arguable?

    >> No. The TOS prohibits tethering.

    >
    > I believe that's incorrect.



    When I had Sprint ummm...five years ago, the TOS prohibited servers and
    and a few other things, but didn't specially mention tethering the
    handset. But when I look at it again a year ago, I thought it now
    mentioned handsets.

    Oh, ok..here it is. You have to have a data plan,

    Services are not available for use in connection with server devices or
    host computer applications, other systems that drive continuous heavy
    traffic or data sessions, or as substitutes for private lines or frame
    relay connections. Except with phone-as-modem plans, you may not use a
    phone (including a Bluetooth phone) on a plan with unlimited
    Vision/Power Vision as a modem in connection with a computer, PDA, or
    similar device. We reserve the right to deny or terminate service
    without notice for any misuse. Availability of downloadable or streaming
    content is subject to change.



  10. #10
    Joel Koltner
    Guest

    Re: "Casual Data" just cost me $75 for last billing period!!

    "none" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    > "Seth Goodman" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > This sounds like BS to me. How can sprint tell that your phone is doing NAT
    > masquerading for other devices?


    Because the phone has to be commanded to connect by that "other device" (over
    either USB or Bluetooth), so the phone simply sets the appropriate flag that
    gets sent to Sprint when that connection is made.

    There are far more technical descriptions and names related to this process
    that you can find on the Sprint hacking sights.

    Products like PDAnet essentially "work around" the detection by taking over
    the connection process and then just asking for a "regular" data session like
    any other application on the phone itself would.





  11. #11
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: "Casual Data" just cost me $75 for last billing period!!

    At 24 Jan 2008 23:46:20 +0000 none wrote:

    > > This prohibition is not just contractual - apparently when you use your
    > > phone as a modem, there is some kind of accompanying "signal" that tells
    > > Sprint that's what you're trying to do. When the system detects the
    > > "signal", it checks if you are permitted to use your phone as modem. If
    > > not, you get blocked.

    >
    > This sounds like BS to me. How can sprint tell that your phone is doing

    NAT
    > masquerading for other devices?



    According to a Sprint corporate buddy of mine, they can't tell (or at least
    don't try to hard.) They look at usage patterns- i.e. a typical
    "dumbphone" doesn't download 10GB/month unless it's tethered, etc.

    Besides, they'd fire off a warning rather than a $75 bill.

    I guess the question I had (as a non-Sprint user) reading the thread is,
    what is "casual data"- is it some sort of no-monthly-fee pay-by-the-kb plan
    instead of an unlimited plan? If so, that could easily explain why the OP
    ran up a $75 bill.






  12. #12
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: "Casual Data" just cost me $75 for last billing period!!

    At 24 Jan 2008 21:13:38 -0600 Paul Miner wrote:

    > >According to a Sprint corporate buddy of mine, they can't tell (or at

    least
    > >don't try to hard.) They look at usage patterns- i.e. a typical
    > >"dumbphone" doesn't download 10GB/month unless it's tethered, etc.

    >
    > That was correct up till a couple of years ago when they started the
    > dual NAI approach. With most handsets, now they can tell.



    Ahh, thanks for the update. That explains all of the interest in certain
    models of older phones on HowardForums.


    > >I guess the question I had (as a non-Sprint user) reading the thread is,
    > >what is "casual data"- is it some sort of no-monthly-fee pay-by-the-kb

    plan
    > >instead of an unlimited plan? If so, that could easily explain why the

    OP
    > >ran up a $75 bill.

    >
    > Yes, that's what casual data usage means, as someone else pointed out
    > earlier in the thread.



    I must have missed that- sorry. Then the $75 bill isn't really a mystery
    then, is it? ;-)





  13. #13
    none
    Guest

    Re: "Casual Data" just cost me $75 for last billing period!!

    "Paul Miner" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > When a handset initiates a data connection to the network, it has to
    > present its NAI (among other things) to the AAA for authentication.
    > Current handsets have two NAI's assigned for data use, one for
    > 'normal' mode and one for 'tethered' mode. The handset knows which
    > mode it's in and presents the proper NAI to the AAA.


    Hrm...ok -- gotcha. I removed all the Sprint modifications from my device,
    so maybe it's not using this method and is just acting as a plain old NAT. I
    have also been able to use it as a WAP for my notebook without being
    charged.

    ~None





  14. #14
    none
    Guest

    Re: "Casual Data" just cost me $75 for last billing period!!

    "Joel Koltner" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > What model phone do you have?


    I use a Mogul (PPC-6800) with dcd's custom ROM:
    http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=345087

    > The hard-core phone hacker guys routinely change the OS to work around the
    > dual NAI "issue," but they're at the level where if you screw up something
    > in the process you can brick the phone.


    Hrm...seems like getting rid of all the custom Sprint stuff may have saved
    me from a big surprise bill. Thanks for the information.

    ~None





  15. #15
    dafydd
    Guest

    Re: "Casual Data" just cost me $75 for last billing period!!

    If you have a powervision plan on your account, then you should not
    have been charged for 'casual data usage'.
    That term is used to describe usage of data services without a vision
    or powervision plan. [ie. the $15 or more feature allowing for
    unlimited data use]
    As long as the usage did not happen before the plan was added then you
    should definitely dispute the charge. In so far as using the phone as
    a modem,
    this would not be possible through normal means normally without a
    specific PAM or Phone As Modem code on your accout. At least that is
    the way it is
    suppoed to work. Typically you would get an error message and code
    when attempting this without the account code. If you were able to
    use it as a
    modem, and do not have that feature on your accout, then either you
    have figured out a way to skirt the system, or you are just an
    extremely lucky
    person and should play the lotto more :-).

    Anyway if you write into eCare they can analyze the bill, and your
    account setup, and determing if there was usage of the data that was
    not picked up
    as it should have been by your powervision plan, or if the usage
    occured before the plan was put into place. [email protected] is
    their direct
    email address. If you send directly to them instead of going through
    your sprint.com account, please include the following in the email,
    proferably at
    the top, so that they will have access to your account, and not have
    to send you another email back asking for the info.

    a. Account Holders PCS number
    b. Account Holders email address of record
    c. Account Holders Billing address
    d. If you have an accout PIN include it, if not, the last 4 of
    Account Holder's SSN or the account password.
    e. A detailed description of the issue <- should go without saying,
    but some people will actually write something like "WTH is with the
    $75?" and leave it at that... ARRGH :-)


    On Jan 23, 10:19*pm, e <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Ten year business customer with many lines, Power Vision
    > on this one with Treo 755p. I understand that Power
    > Vision give me unlimited access to the web via the
    > phone, plus email, etc.
    >
    > When I extended this contract and bought the Treo CSR
    > told me that my account had a code that permitted
    > "casual data" use, by which my new Treo could be used as
    > a modem when traveling, etc.
    >
    > Last month I went on a trip and used the phone as a
    > modem for 2-3 hours. The bill just arrived with a charge
    > for $75 - entitled "PCS DATA".
    >
    > First, is there really such a thing as "casual data"?
    >
    > Second, what does it cost to have unlimited data?
    >
    > Third, is that $75 arguable?





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