Got a good idea to stuck it to sprint with there unlimited nonsense on the phone

"Central" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:43:49 +0000, p lane wrote:
>
> > In past postings I have read that below 1 gig per month seems to be
> > left alone? Is that still what seems to be the rule.??
> >
> >
> > [posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]
>
> Well see that there is the problem. There is no rule. It just seems to be
> a limit sprint has come up with. Nothing stops them from changing that
> rule esp since the observed parties who hit that rule never knew of it
> before hand. It would not be wrong for sprint to drop that limit to say
> 500MB,100MB, or even 20MB. Since after all it is their untold rule. Also I
> have not seen any reports if that rule applies to 1GB a month or 1GB per a
> line over all. I know I would hate to hit that unforeseen cap.

You still haven't provided any information on what I had inquired about. How
much are you using a month, and have you seen any additional charges on your
bill?

Bob

---

› See More: Got a good idea to stuck it to sprint with there unlimited nonsense on the phone

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 18:01:53 +0000, Bob Smith wrote:

>
> I'd suggest you keep it an idea ... I'm guessing that if something like what
> you've described ever did take place, SPCS would have extremely good grounds
> to file a civil action against you, and have the appropriate government
> authority to file a criminal action as well.
>
> Bob

Well no it would not make sense as a criminal act, maybe a civil lawsuit
but not criminal act. If they were to come after me for such an
application how would be different then making a mp3 streaming radio j2me
application on my phone? I have put midi files from some of my favorite
game action scenes on a personal webserver and with the sanyo browser I
can goto the page and play them on demand. Sprint is always advertising
multimedia features of their new vision network, if not pictures then
voice/picture combos. Assuming they tried to bring me to court claming
some kind of intent to disrupt their network then they would have to prove
that my single threaded application working alone can take down their
network using unauthorized means. Which I doubt a socket connection counts
since it would use the same library as the web browsers on our phones do.
Also such a legal action, if won, would also apply to any mutlimedia app
and or laptop connections since they can in theory bring down the network
by using vision.

Would be a pain in the ass but in the end the application only would grab
one datastream and only use the amount of data in which sprint has
allocated to each user in the users contracts. It just happens to be that
sprint has allocated unlimited vision in those contracts which is their
fault not their users this makes them obligated to maintain and provide
such services.

"Central" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 12:51:47 -0500, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:

<snip>

I suggest you contact Nate Carlson personally before you attribute beliefs
to him. I had an email conversation with him when he created that page (I
am a member of the TCLUG list that he frequents) and I don't recall at all
him stating a belief that he had an inalienable right to unlimitted
"tethered" data usage via Vision.

Tom Veldhouse

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 18:07:18 +0000, Bob Smith wrote:

>
> "Central" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:43:49 +0000, p lane wrote:
>>
>> > In past postings I have read that below 1 gig per month seems to be
>> > left alone? Is that still what seems to be the rule.??
>> >
>> >
>> > [posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]
>>
>> Well see that there is the problem. There is no rule. It just seems to be
>> a limit sprint has come up with. Nothing stops them from changing that
>> rule esp since the observed parties who hit that rule never knew of it
>> before hand. It would not be wrong for sprint to drop that limit to say
>> 500MB,100MB, or even 20MB. Since after all it is their untold rule. Also I
>> have not seen any reports if that rule applies to 1GB a month or 1GB per a
>> line over all. I know I would hate to hit that unforeseen cap.
>
> You still haven't provided any information on what I had inquired about. How
> much are you using a month, and have you seen any additional charges on your
> bill?
>
> Bob

I mentioned in another posting to you that I use my phone mostly for
email/ssh and also for pictures/family communication(I do not have a
picture phone) while traveling. I do not have exact figures but I would
have to say I don't use more then 20MBs a month of data on avg. I do how
ever use it in bursts. If I'm within my home area there is little use for
the phone between home and work. When I do travel I may use 50-100MBs in
data. When I go down to the Florida keys I enjoyed streaming my local radio
stations through my phone at a low bit-rate Most will know that the
interstates are pretty well covered. So Bob I don't use it everyday but
when I have to use it I want to be able to use it without question or
concern about what sprint thinks (at the moment I start using it) is an
acceptable use policy.

"Central" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 18:01:53 +0000, Bob Smith wrote:
>
> >
> > I'd suggest you keep it an idea ... I'm guessing that if something like
what
> > you've described ever did take place, SPCS would have extremely good
grounds
> > to file a civil action against you, and have the appropriate government
> > authority to file a criminal action as well.
> >
> > Bob
>
> Well no it would not make sense as a criminal act, maybe a civil lawsuit
> but not criminal act.

I'm not a lawyer, don't work for the Justice Dept, but I believe it could
very well be a criminal act. You were the one who designed the program to
disrupt the system and waste the system resources & bandwidth. Wouldn't be
any different that hackers trying to take over other computers, and I know
that there are laws against that.

You seem to be very serious about this. SPCS never acknowledges reading this
newsgroup, however I hope some one is, and has already flagged you and your
account to watch in the future ...

Bob

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 13:27:46 -0500, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:

>
> "Central" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 12:51:47 -0500, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> I suggest you contact Nate Carlson personally before you attribute beliefs
> to him. I had an email conversation with him when he created that page (I
> am a member of the TCLUG list that he frequents) and I don't recall at all
> him stating a belief that he had an inalienable right to unlimitted
> "tethered" data usage via Vision.
>
> Tom Veldhouse

I do not believe I said such a thing either. Tho if you like maybe you
should reread my post since I was quoting your statement about
" especially since I now know you read the slashdot article. "
The snip I pasted from his article was not that he completely believes
"an inalienable right to unlimited "tethered" data usage via Vision" but
that he too was told by reps of laptop use, which you doubted here,
"Personally, I don't believe that it was sold to you as unlimitted laptop
usage." It was not a question of if I will be billed for data use as you
also suggested here, "I think the rep was one of those 19 year old
enthusiasts who "confirmed" for you that you do not get charged
currently." but a flat out request that I need a connection I can use with
my laptop. As I mentioned in one of my other postings in this thread I
have been using cingular for my data use at the time and was looking for a
better plan. There was no confusion I did not misunderstand the rep or
customer service when I called up to confirm or even when I bought my data
kit. I am also dam sure all the other people who have posted similar
stories were not confused about it either. I also notice you didn't say
anything about the other link I gave you which also showed another user
who was told similar aspects as I was.

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 18:41:32 +0000, Bob Smith wrote:

>
> I'm not a lawyer, don't work for the Justice Dept, but I believe it could
> very well be a criminal act. You were the one who designed the program to
> disrupt the system and waste the system resources & bandwidth. Wouldn't be
> any different that hackers trying to take over other computers, and I know
> that there are laws against that.
>
> You seem to be very serious about this. SPCS never acknowledges reading this
> newsgroup, however I hope some one is, and has already flagged you and your
> account to watch in the future ...
>
> Bob

If you would please phrase and quote where I said the sole purpose of such
an application design is to "disrupt the system". I will say my original
plan was to waste bandwidth/resources that were MINE to waste since I did
pay for an unlimited slice of the vision access. Unlimited does not mean
every 3rd day and sometimes on sunday. It means continuous. Please don't
take me off as a person who wants to cause harm to sprint's network
because I also use their network. The difference between
hackers trying to take over other computers is that they do take over
other computers. I will not nor do I believe I can steal your phone
forcefully install this program against your will and then let it spread
to other phones. The laws against the actions you suggest are of illegal
use of resources. Last I checked I was A) A Current sprint customer, B) A
vision paid user, and C) allowed to use my phone to access the vision
network. If I wrote a worm that went around and did such acts against
people's will or even with the help of their stupidity then it would be
illegal. In fact in my original post I didn't even mention degrading system
resources just downloading data to my phone. Which if you want is an equiv
of going to a web page with a 5sec refresh meta tag and a picture. As for
being serious I suggested an idea and started thinking of structure for
it. I have even suggested maybe rate limiting in other posts so that
sprint's vision network load will not be as drastically effected by anyone
using such an application. Lastly a tool is not illegal nor legal until it
is used. Making a tool like this is no different then making wget j2me
version for your phone. It only becomes illegal when you use it as such.

Also I would hate to have free ideas and speech being a reason to flag me
for anything. I have tried to keep an open mind towards everyone comments
even the ones who flat out insulted me.

"Central" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
<snipped>
>
> If you would please phrase and quote where I said the sole purpose of such
> an application design is to "disrupt the system". I will say my original
> plan was to waste bandwidth/resources that were MINE to waste since I did
> pay for an unlimited slice of the vision access.

That's not just your bandwidth Centra... It's everyone's bandwidth for those
users in the same area as you. There is only so much bandwidth available
from those towers.

> Unlimited does not mean
> every 3rd day and sometimes on sunday. It means continuous. Please don't
> take me off as a person who wants to cause harm to sprint's network
> because I also use their network. The difference between
> hackers trying to take over other computers is that they do take over
> other computers.

It also means that the hackers are using the bandwidth of those computers as
well.

Sorry, but no amount of argument will change the fact about bandwidth use on
these towers, whether it's games or what ever. You can have the last word in
this if you want, I'm through with discussing this particular point.

Bob

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 19:26:04 +0000, Bob Smith wrote:
> That's not just your bandwidth Centra... It's everyone's bandwidth for those
> users in the same area as you. There is only so much bandwidth available
> from those towers.
>
> It also means that the hackers are using the bandwidth of those computers as
> well.
>
> Sorry, but no amount of argument will change the fact about bandwidth use on
> these towers, whether it's games or what ever. You can have the last word in
> this if you want, I'm through with discussing this particular point.
>
> Bob

What I do no get is why you people believe that because sprint did not
plan their network according to their promotions that it is your fault if
you use too much data. As for hackers using bandwidth, those same hackers
don't pay for that bandwidth nor do they pay for the bandwidth they are
attacking. In my example of a application on the phone downloading data
from a cable modem(your home computer) you are not only paying your isp to
allow that cable modem to send data but also paying sprint to recv the
data. It is a shame the towers can only carry so much but it has been a
what? a year since sprint has started the unlimited vision if they
couldn't cope with users using their service then they have management/pr
issues. If I was say to packet yahoo.com yes that would be illegal because
even tho I pay for my internet account to send data I do not pay for
yahoo's connection and would be an attack on them. In this case I pay for
both end points and the right to use the network which is outlined in my
contract. If I choose to send text msgs saying how neat yellow grapes
are that is my choice and my right as long as I abide to my contract that
governs my use of the sprint network. Yes if alot of people use such an
application YOU MAY notice a drop but that is not something I have control
over. I can only control myself. I paid to use a network and unlike some
people I know what unlimited means. If sprint wishes to sue me over it
they can after all anyone can sue anyone else only costs about 40dollars
and a trip to your local courthouse. That does not make them in the right.

Now lets use some figures because you seem to think my way is sooo very
illegal. Lets say you visit a news page that downloads 40KB of data each
viewing and that it refreshes every 5mins. Well how many 5min chunks are
in a month of 31 days? Lets find out. Well 31 days x 24hours in a day =
744hrs a month well that is also 44,640 mins(since 744hrs x 60mins per an
hour) so now how many times does 5 go into 44,640mins? why 8,928 blocks of
5min intervals. Now so if you grabbed 40KB every 5mins (which is a good
sized news page) that would be 40KB x 8,928 = 357,120KB which when devided
by 1024 eqs 348.75MBs. You know what 40KB / 1KB/s = 40secs.

You know someone mentioned slashdot not to long ago and a wget of their
index file as of this posting is 52K. So that would be 464,256KBs a month.

Of course with compression sprint does that will probly get knocked down
to 10-30K. Tho what about all those applets that are avabile free for
download why those are only 20-50K as well and can not be compressed since
they are already compressed packages. Heaven forbid users leave their
phone grabbing a package every 5mins. Those criminals! Should be arrested
because they tried to use the sprint network.

It is not hard to tally up data even without the use of my "application
idea" it all depends on your use. If you are telling me sprint can't
handle at least 1KB/s of data for their proposed nation wide all digitally
new idea network they claim in their ads selling me unlimited vision in
which if I even attempt to get a 1KB/s unlimited stream to my phone makes
me a um equiv hacker who is stealing services that he does not own. Then I
would really like to know what happened to your rights as a consumer. If
sprint can't at least handle a 1KB/s stream of data that I at least paided
for. Then the fault is theirs not mine.

First off, you will be severely wasting alot of network resources. Not just
for Sprint PCS but for completely legitimate customers trying to use their
phones when they need to.

And Sprint is cancelling accounts that severely abuse Unl. Vision. And hell
yes they have the right to disconnect your ass. Your CUSTOMER AGREEMENT says
that Unl. Vision in your VOICE plan is NOT to used for PC/Laptop or PDA
data. It is for PHONE USE ONLY! You break the contract, they can terminate
your service.. bottom line.

"Central" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> I was thinking that sprint only seems to be capable of telling the
> difference between a laptop and normal cell phone activity based on
> bandwidth usage so why not create a j2me application that does nothing but
> suck down bandwidth. It would be dead simple to write up a j2me app that
> does nothing but grab data nonsense and repeats. I am working on a simple
> version that lets you pick a port number and a dest. host(say your cable
> modem) and just grab data nonstop. I would like to see sprint cancel
> service for people using the data part unlimited via their phone. Only
> down side is that when using vision your phone won't recv. calls but I
> know some people signed up to sprint for the data usage as much as
> using the phone for voice calls. I know when I signed up to vision using
> it with my laptop was one of the many lies I was told but oh well. Just
> an idea I was working on that would completely nullify sprint's bandwidth
> records since the phone can just keep pulling and never storing the data.
> Given the phone's bandwidth it should not be too hard to really rack up
> a lot of the unlimited bandwidth everyone was promised when they signed
> up and using it in accordance to our contracts on the phone. Any
> comments are welcomed.
>




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On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 16:00:54 -0700, Sterling wrote:

> First off, you will be severely wasting alot of network resources. Not just
> for Sprint PCS but for completely legitimate customers trying to use their
> phones when they need to.
>
> And Sprint is cancelling accounts that severely abuse Unl. Vision. And hell
> yes they have the right to disconnect your ass. Your CUSTOMER AGREEMENT says
> that Unl. Vision in your VOICE plan is NOT to used for PC/Laptop or PDA
> data. It is for PHONE USE ONLY! You break the contract, they can terminate
> your service.. bottom line.
>
> "Central" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news[email protected]...
>> I was thinking that sprint only seems to be capable of telling the
>> difference between a laptop and normal cell phone activity based on
>> bandwidth usage so why not create a j2me application that does nothing but
>> suck down bandwidth. It would be dead simple to write up a j2me app that
>> does nothing but grab data nonsense and repeats. I am working on a simple
>> version that lets you pick a port number and a dest. host(say your cable
>> modem) and just grab data nonstop. I would like to see sprint cancel
>> service for people using the data part unlimited via their phone. Only
>> down side is that when using vision your phone won't recv. calls but I
>> know some people signed up to sprint for the data usage as much as
>> using the phone for voice calls. I know when I signed up to vision using
>> it with my laptop was one of the many lies I was told but oh well. Just
>> an idea I was working on that would completely nullify sprint's bandwidth
>> records since the phone can just keep pulling and never storing the data.
>> Given the phone's bandwidth it should not be too hard to really rack up
>> a lot of the unlimited bandwidth everyone was promised when they signed
>> up and using it in accordance to our contracts on the phone. Any
>> comments are welcomed.
>>
>
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Which is the same clause that makes such an application in accordance with
unlimited vision use on a phone.

I can truly say that Sprint is the AOL of cell phone service providers.
And yes i am going to another provider as soon as customer service
takes me off of hold just spent 2.50 Hrs on the phone weighting for a
cs person and had to hawk up I will try again tomorrow and yes sprint
did cancel my unlimited vision

--
Posted at SprintUsers.com - Your place for everything Sprint PCS
Free wireless access @ www.SprintUsers.com/wap

Central wrote:
> I was thinking that sprint only seems to be capable of telling the
> difference between a laptop and normal cell phone activity based on
> bandwidth usage so why not create a j2me application that does
> nothing but suck down bandwidth. It would be dead simple to write up
> a j2me app that does nothing but grab data nonsense and repeats. I am
> working on a simple version that lets you pick a port number and a
> dest. host(say your cable modem) and just grab data nonstop. I would
> like to see sprint cancel service for people using the data part
> unlimited via their phone. Only down side is that when using vision
> your phone won't recv. calls but I know some people signed up to
> sprint for the data usage as much as
> using the phone for voice calls. I know when I signed up to vision
> using it with my laptop was one of the many lies I was told but oh
> well. Just an idea I was working on that would completely nullify
> sprint's bandwidth records since the phone can just keep pulling and
> never storing the data. Given the phone's bandwidth it should not be
> too hard to really rack up
> a lot of the unlimited bandwidth everyone was promised when they
> signed up and using it in accordance to our contracts on the phone.
> Any comments are welcomed.

I don't know who told you the *amount* of traffic was all we used, but
they're wrong.
--
-+-
RØß
O/Siris
I work for Sprint
I *don't* speak for them

Central wrote:
> I was thinking that sprint only seems to be capable of telling the
> difference between a laptop and normal cell phone activity based on
> bandwidth usage so why not create a j2me application that does
> nothing but suck down bandwidth. It would be dead simple to write up
> a j2me app that does nothing but grab data nonsense and repeats. I am
> working on a simple version that lets you pick a port number and a
> dest. host(say your cable modem) and just grab data nonstop. I would
> like to see sprint cancel service for people using the data part
> unlimited via their phone. Only down side is that when using vision
> your phone won't recv. calls but I know some people signed up to
> sprint for the data usage as much as
> using the phone for voice calls. I know when I signed up to vision
> using it with my laptop was one of the many lies I was told but oh
> well. Just an idea I was working on that would completely nullify
> sprint's bandwidth records since the phone can just keep pulling and
> never storing the data. Given the phone's bandwidth it should not be
> too hard to really rack up
> a lot of the unlimited bandwidth everyone was promised when they
> signed up and using it in accordance to our contracts on the phone.
> Any comments are welcomed.

I don't know who told you the *amount* of traffic was all we used, but
they're wrong.
--
-+-
RØß
O/Siris
I work for Sprint
I *don't* speak for them

Central, that's a great idea, man... and in no way related to hacking.
If you write some J2ME code that runs on your phone and does nothing
more than regularly request data on the network, that's perfectly
within the bounds of the Vision TOS. Not that I think that would stop
Sprint from terminating your Vision service -- it's fairly apparent
that the TOS is only there to give SPCS an excuse to do what they want.
Sprint certainly doesn't seem to feel that the TOS is binding upon
THEM in any way -- otherwise we'd actually be getting credit for the
copious Vision outages and network retries and page-not-availables.

What I would really like to see is an application that lives on your
phone, and tracks every time you try to access Vision and the network
fails. Said application could then upload the failure log to Sprint
every month and the user could request micropayment compensation (say,
a penny every time the connect fails?). Of course, if I got a penny
every time I was unable to contact the Vision network, I'd be getting a
pretty steep discount on my monthly plan...

--
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Free wireless access @ www.SprintUsers.com/wap