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  1. #16
    Paul Kim
    Guest

    Re: Question about contract renewal and early cancellation fee


    "Steven J Sobol" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Phillipe <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > File with the BBB, your State's Attorney General, the FCC, and the FTC,
    > > with a certfied copy to Sprint. The LAST thing you should do is pay and
    > > hope for a refund later.

    >
    > Don't file with the BBB, the BBB is toothless.


    I wouldn't say the BBB is toothless. This past May, I had troubles with
    Vision charges, and having spent 3 weeks with cust. support on the phone, I
    decided to file a BBB complaint. THE NEXT DAY an executive service rep
    called me and offered to remedy the situation. I had been waiting for
    executive service to call me for 1 week, and finally they did, specifically
    because of the BBB complaint (she told me so).

    I was surprised how quickly a BBB report caught their attention!





    See More: Question about contract renewal and early cancellation fee




  2. #17
    Steven J Sobol
    Guest

    Re: Question about contract renewal and early cancellation fee

    Paul Kim <[email protected]> wrote:


    > I wouldn't say the BBB is toothless. This past May, I had troubles with
    > Vision charges, and having spent 3 weeks with cust. support on the phone,
    > I decided to file a BBB complaint. THE NEXT DAY an executive service rep
    > called me and offered to remedy the situation. I had been waiting for
    > executive service to call me for 1 week, and finally they did, specifically
    > because of the BBB complaint (she told me so).


    > I was surprised how quickly a BBB report caught their attention!


    It's admirable that Sprint replied to you so quickly, however if they'd
    decided to blow you off, the most the BBB would do is put a black mark
    on their complaint record.

    The BBB is a nice idea but has no enforcement powers and therefore is
    useless in cases in which the merchant decides to ignore you, or fight
    with you.


    --
    JustThe.net Internet & Multimedia Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * [email protected]



  3. #18
    Phillipe
    Guest

    Re: Question about contract renewal and early cancellation fee

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Justin" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Lawrence G. Mayka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > "Justin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > I had pretty much the same experience. Did you buy a new phone in

    > March? I
    > > > was told that if you activate a new phone and aren't charged an

    > activation
    > > > fee, it's because you are automatically signed up for another one or
    > > > two-year contract. I had no idea, no one pointed this out to me. All I

    > >
    > > Justin, do you simply mean an ESN swap--replacing an old phone with a new

    > phone
    > > on the same plan and phone number? This cannot possibly sign you to a new
    > > contract "automatically" (though lying Sprint reps and

    > "supervisors"--probably
    > > bluffers in the next cubicle--might claim it can). Once again I must

    > point out
    > > that regardless of the lies that Sprint reps and "sups" may tell us,

    > Sprint's
    > > policy is clearly on their Web site:

    >
    > Here's what happened. Due to the dropped calls/reception issues, I was
    > becoming really frusterated with having no phones at home. *2 advised me
    > that they would give me a discount on purchasing a new phone due to the
    > trouble I had experienced. I went into the store, described my problems,
    > and the store rep actually told me that a better phone would get a better
    > signal. So I asked him which phones were better than the LG 1100s. He
    > suggested, and I bought two Sanyo 8100s. He activated them there in the
    > store, I paid for them, and wham, I was signed up for a 2 year contract. I
    > didn't even find this out until a few days later when I called to cancel my
    > service. The *2 rep asked if I wanted to cancel my current contract, or the
    > two year contract I had just signed up for. Then I knew.


    The fine print SprintPCS supplies you says:
    For a limited time, get a PCS VisionSM Picture Phone with built-in
    camera (Sanyo® 8100) for just $99.99 after $130 instant savings. With
    Picture MailSM you can take digital, full-color pictures and share them
    instantly with family and friends anywhere across the enhanced Sprint
    Nationwide PCS Network.
    This special offer ends September 28, 2003. Instant savings available to
    customers adding a new line of service on a PCS Free & Clear Plan with
    Vision. Requires a two-year PCS Advantage Agreement. Customers
    purchasing a phone without a PCS Free & Clear Plan will receive a
    mail-in rebate.


    ======
    So if you paid $99.99 each for the phones then they give you a 2 year
    contract. If you paid $229.99 per phone, then there should have been no
    contract given you at the store.


    >
    > >
    > > http://activate.sprintpcs.com/explore/OLAHome.jsp
    > >
    > > "A non-refundable $36.00 activation fee* will be applied unless you are a
    > > current PCS customer and are replacing your existing phone with a new

    > one."
    > >
    > > It is unfortunate that Sprint apparently believes that it can use lies and
    > > frauds on most customers, because only a few will actually contact the

    > state's
    > > attorney general.
    > >
    > >

    >
    >




  4. #19
    Phillipe
    Guest

    Re: Question about contract renewal and early cancellation fee

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Lawrence G. Mayka" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Justin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > P.S. - I didn't fully answer your question. I retained the same numbers
    > > and
    > > plan. They just extended the contract 2 years.

    >
    > If you did not give your affirmative consent to a new agreement--by words,
    > signature, clicking a box, etc.--Sprint's claim is just another fraudulent
    > lie.


    As rare as it is for me, I may be taking Sprint's side in this. The
    $99.99 discount price on the Sanyo 8100 comes with a 2 year Agreement;
    however if he before 2 weeks were up returned the phones, then the 2
    year agreement should go away also.


    > Most likely, Sprint's official *policy* is not to offer a discount on a new
    > phone unless the customer renews his agreement. The policy probably also
    > states
    > that the salesperson is supposed to explain the requirement and get consent.
    > But salespeople probably often just avoid talking about any agreement (after
    > all, it might kill the sale) and rely on after-the-fact blustering
    > (fraudulent
    > lying) from *2 to smooth out the dis-agreement.
    >
    >




  5. #20
    Phillipe
    Guest

    Re: Question about contract renewal and early cancellation fee

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Lawrence G. Mayka" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Justin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > I had pretty much the same experience. Did you buy a new phone in March?
    > > I
    > > was told that if you activate a new phone and aren't charged an activation
    > > fee, it's because you are automatically signed up for another one or
    > > two-year contract. I had no idea, no one pointed this out to me. All I

    >
    > Justin, do you simply mean an ESN swap--replacing an old phone with a new
    > phone
    > on the same plan and phone number? This cannot possibly sign you to a new
    > contract "automatically" (though lying Sprint reps and
    > "supervisors"--probably
    > bluffers in the next cubicle--might claim it can). Once again I must point
    > out
    > that regardless of the lies that Sprint reps and "sups" may tell us, Sprint's
    > policy is clearly on their Web site:
    >
    > http://activate.sprintpcs.com/explore/OLAHome.jsp
    >
    > "A non-refundable $36.00 activation fee* will be applied unless you are a
    > current PCS customer and are replacing your existing phone with a new one."


    As I have previous posted to your Sprint quote:
    on the website its a ==> may <== and not a => will be <= :

    http://www1.sprintpcs.com/explore/in...rmsPrivacy.jsp

    Phone Activation Fee. You may be required to pay a non-refundable phone
    activation fee when you activate a new Number, have us switch a Number
    to a different phone, have your current Number changed, we activate a
    different phone on your existing account or your Service Plan says so.

    And as far as I have experienced Business Plans are not charged
    Activation fees.



    >
    > It is unfortunate that Sprint apparently believes that it can use lies and
    > frauds on most customers, because only a few will actually contact the
    > state's
    > attorney general.
    >
    >


    I suspect its more than some CSRs are under pressure to sign folks up
    for Advantage Agreements, and to keep supervisors happy, they assign
    them willy nilly, without asking at times. This is only an hypothesis,
    but it sure explains (as hypotheses are supposed to) observations.



  6. #21
    Phillipe
    Guest

    Re: Question about contract renewal and early cancellation fee

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Paul Kim" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    > "Steven J Sobol" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > Phillipe <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > File with the BBB, your State's Attorney General, the FCC, and the FTC,
    > > > with a certfied copy to Sprint. The LAST thing you should do is pay and
    > > > hope for a refund later.

    > >
    > > Don't file with the BBB, the BBB is toothless.

    >
    > I wouldn't say the BBB is toothless. This past May, I had troubles with
    > Vision charges, and having spent 3 weeks with cust. support on the phone, I
    > decided to file a BBB complaint. THE NEXT DAY an executive service rep
    > called me and offered to remedy the situation. I had been waiting for
    > executive service to call me for 1 week, and finally they did, specifically
    > because of the BBB complaint (she told me so).
    >
    > I was surprised how quickly a BBB report caught their attention!



    Just for the record, that was Mr. Sobol who spoke disparagingly about
    the BBB.



  7. #22
    Justin
    Guest

    Re: Question about contract renewal and early cancellation fee


    "Phillipe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "Lawrence G. Mayka" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > "Justin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > P.S. - I didn't fully answer your question. I retained the same

    numbers
    > > > and
    > > > plan. They just extended the contract 2 years.

    > >
    > > If you did not give your affirmative consent to a new agreement--by

    words,
    > > signature, clicking a box, etc.--Sprint's claim is just another

    fraudulent
    > > lie.

    >
    > As rare as it is for me, I may be taking Sprint's side in this. The
    > $99.99 discount price on the Sanyo 8100 comes with a 2 year Agreement;
    > however if he before 2 weeks were up returned the phones, then the 2
    > year agreement should go away also.


    I know the discount usually involves a contract, however, I was led to
    believe that the discount offered to me was for my troubles, not
    compensation for signing a 2 year contract, which I never did.

    > > Most likely, Sprint's official *policy* is not to offer a discount on a

    new
    > > phone unless the customer renews his agreement. The policy probably

    also
    > > states
    > > that the salesperson is supposed to explain the requirement and get

    consent.
    > > But salespeople probably often just avoid talking about any agreement

    (after
    > > all, it might kill the sale) and rely on after-the-fact blustering
    > > (fraudulent
    > > lying) from *2 to smooth out the dis-agreement.
    > >
    > >






  8. #23
    Justin
    Guest

    Re: Question about contract renewal and early cancellation fee


    "Phillipe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "Justin" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > "Lawrence G. Mayka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > "Justin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > I had pretty much the same experience. Did you buy a new phone in

    > > March? I
    > > > > was told that if you activate a new phone and aren't charged an

    > > activation
    > > > > fee, it's because you are automatically signed up for another one or
    > > > > two-year contract. I had no idea, no one pointed this out to me.

    All I
    > > >
    > > > Justin, do you simply mean an ESN swap--replacing an old phone with a

    new
    > > phone
    > > > on the same plan and phone number? This cannot possibly sign you to a

    new
    > > > contract "automatically" (though lying Sprint reps and

    > > "supervisors"--probably
    > > > bluffers in the next cubicle--might claim it can). Once again I must

    > > point out
    > > > that regardless of the lies that Sprint reps and "sups" may tell us,

    > > Sprint's
    > > > policy is clearly on their Web site:

    > >
    > > Here's what happened. Due to the dropped calls/reception issues, I was
    > > becoming really frusterated with having no phones at home. *2 advised

    me
    > > that they would give me a discount on purchasing a new phone due to the
    > > trouble I had experienced. I went into the store, described my

    problems,
    > > and the store rep actually told me that a better phone would get a

    better
    > > signal. So I asked him which phones were better than the LG 1100s. He
    > > suggested, and I bought two Sanyo 8100s. He activated them there in the
    > > store, I paid for them, and wham, I was signed up for a 2 year contract.

    I
    > > didn't even find this out until a few days later when I called to cancel

    my
    > > service. The *2 rep asked if I wanted to cancel my current contract, or

    the
    > > two year contract I had just signed up for. Then I knew.

    >
    > The fine print SprintPCS supplies you says:
    > For a limited time, get a PCS VisionSM Picture Phone with built-in
    > camera (Sanyo® 8100) for just $99.99 after $130 instant savings. With
    > Picture MailSM you can take digital, full-color pictures and share them
    > instantly with family and friends anywhere across the enhanced Sprint
    > Nationwide PCS Network.
    > This special offer ends September 28, 2003. Instant savings available to
    > customers adding a new line of service on a PCS Free & Clear Plan with
    > Vision. Requires a two-year PCS Advantage Agreement. Customers
    > purchasing a phone without a PCS Free & Clear Plan will receive a
    > mail-in rebate.
    >
    >
    > ======
    > So if you paid $99.99 each for the phones then they give you a 2 year
    > contract. If you paid $229.99 per phone, then there should have been no
    > contract given you at the store.


    In addition, I wasn't given the full, "as-advertised" discount. I was only
    given $100 off of each phone.





  9. #24
    Justin
    Guest

    Re: Question about contract renewal and early cancellation fee


    "Lawrence G. Mayka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Justin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > P.S. - I didn't fully answer your question. I retained the same numbers

    and
    > > plan. They just extended the contract 2 years.

    >
    > If you did not give your affirmative consent to a new agreement--by words,
    > signature, clicking a box, etc.--Sprint's claim is just another fraudulent

    lie.
    > Most likely, Sprint's official *policy* is not to offer a discount on a

    new
    > phone unless the customer renews his agreement. The policy probably also

    states
    > that the salesperson is supposed to explain the requirement and get

    consent.
    > But salespeople probably often just avoid talking about any agreement

    (after
    > all, it might kill the sale) and rely on after-the-fact blustering

    (fraudulent
    > lying) from *2 to smooth out the dis-agreement.



    Yeah, I was under the impression that 1) the discounts were for my troubles,
    not for the two year contract they signed me up for, and 2) that the
    activation fees they told me they would waive were also for my troubles, not
    for agreeing to another contract, which I never did. I'm sure that
    somewhere in their contracts it says that buying a phone on an existing
    account requires an agreement. It may or may not. All I saw was that
    buying a new phone MAY result in activation fees. It said nothing of new
    contracts. The ad was for a $130 discount on the 8100s and I only received
    a $100 discount on each phone, further leading me to believe that this was
    not a typical discount-for-contract scenario.





  10. #25
    Steven J Sobol
    Guest

    Re: Question about contract renewal and early cancellation fee

    Phillipe <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> "Steven J Sobol" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> > Phillipe <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> > > File with the BBB, your State's Attorney General, the FCC, and the FTC,
    >> > > with a certfied copy to Sprint. The LAST thing you should do is pay and
    >> > > hope for a refund later.
    >> >
    >> > Don't file with the BBB, the BBB is toothless.

    >
    > Just for the record, that was Mr. Sobol who spoke disparagingly about
    > the BBB.


    Yes, it was. People who look at the attributions (which, btw, are
    correct) will see it was me.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & Multimedia Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * [email protected]



  11. #26
    paulisme
    Guest

    Re: Question about contract renewal and early cancellation fee


    "letsgoflyers81" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > First thing first, if you didn't enter into a new agreement, don't pay.
    > If they're going to charge you for breaking a contract, they need to
    > prove that there's a contract. That's why you click a box online or
    > they record you agreeing during a phone call when you agree to a new
    > contract. If they can't show proof, then they can't make you pay.
    > They're either lying about the whole thing, or some rep you talked to
    > back in March signed you up without your consent or knowledge. Bottom
    > line is that if you didn't agree to it, don't pay. You can try the
    > FTC, but send a letter to corporate, the Better Business Bureau, FCC,
    > and the Attorney General in your state and Sprint's headquarters'
    > state. Threaten to sue for the $150 plus court costs and let them know
    > you're sending the letter of your experience to the other outlets.
    > They'll back off.
    >
    > --
    > Posted at SprintUsers.com - Your place for everything Sprint PCS
    > Free wireless access @ www.SprintUsers.com/wap
    >


    Well, I called them again today and spoke to another representative. I told
    her that I wanted to file a formal dispute against the $150 fee. She told
    me that their records said I renewed my contract in March (just like the
    other rep had the day before). I told her that I didn't authorize it and
    that I wanted to dispute the charges. She seemed kind of speechless, then
    asked me to hold. About 5 minutes later, another person picked up the phone
    and told me that she couldn't find anything indicating that I renewed my
    contract and that she would waive the fee. I guess it turned out all right
    for me, but it makes me wonder how many other people have experienced this
    and have paid the fee anyway.

    Paul





  12. #27
    Phillipe
    Guest

    Re: Question about contract renewal and early cancellation fee

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "paulisme" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Well, I called them again today and spoke to another representative. I told
    > her that I wanted to file a formal dispute against the $150 fee. She told
    > me that their records said I renewed my contract in March (just like the
    > other rep had the day before). I told her that I didn't authorize it and
    > that I wanted to dispute the charges. She seemed kind of speechless, then
    > asked me to hold. About 5 minutes later, another person picked up the phone
    > and told me that she couldn't find anything indicating that I renewed my
    > contract and that she would waive the fee. I guess it turned out all right
    > for me, but it makes me wonder how many other people have experienced this
    > and have paid the fee anyway.
    >
    > Paul


    If the fee is not on your last bill it turned out OK. But if one said
    you renewed in march and one said you didn't, how do we reconcile that?



  13. #28
    O/Siris
    Guest

    Re: Question about contract renewal and early cancellation fee

    Justin wrote:

    >>
    >> Sprint only renews your plan for a plan change, not an adding or
    >> subtracting plan services (i.e. $5 PCS-PCS, Roadside Assistance,
    >> etc).

    >
    > They also renew plans if you buy a phone and have it activated. I
    > did, and they didn't even bother to tell me about the choice to pay
    > the activation fees or sign a two year contract.


    "We" don't. Someone, obviously, did in your case, but that is *not* what
    Sprint uses as a policy.

    >
    >> You can change
    >> plan services to your hearts content. To commit you to a new plan,
    >> they must either get a signature, a web based consent or a recorded
    >> voice consent for it to be valid.

    >
    > Again, not if you buy a phone.


    Not according to SPCS policy. Activating a phone does NOT require a
    contract.

    >
    >> Otherwise, if they hit your credit and damage it, you
    >> have grounds to sue for damages and they better come up with the
    >> acceptance (signature, recording or web acceptance). A subpoena can
    >> do wonderful things for you (can get you out of lots of speeding
    >> tickets ... subpoena the radar calibration records .. chances are
    >> good that the radar was not calibrated in a timely manner according
    >> to the law).
    >>
    >> Tom Veldhouse


    --
    -+-
    RØß
    O/Siris
    I work for Sprint
    I *don't* speak for them





  14. #29
    O/Siris
    Guest

    Re: Question about contract renewal and early cancellation fee

    Phillipe wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "Lawrence G. Mayka" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> "Justin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]...
    >>> P.S. - I didn't fully answer your question. I retained the same
    >>> numbers and
    >>> plan. They just extended the contract 2 years.

    >>
    >> If you did not give your affirmative consent to a new agreement--by
    >> words, signature, clicking a box, etc.--Sprint's claim is just
    >> another fraudulent lie.

    >
    > As rare as it is for me, I may be taking Sprint's side in this. The
    > $99.99 discount price on the Sanyo 8100 comes with a 2 year Agreement;
    > however if he before 2 weeks were up returned the phones, then the 2
    > year agreement should go away also.
    >


    Actually, it doesn't *appear* to work this way. If assent is properly
    obtained for the Advantage Agreement, then cancellation fee applies if you
    should cancel service *or* if we terminate it for your breach. That's the
    language we use in our recordings, at least. Plus:

    ---
    Sprint PCS products may be returned within 14 days of purchase for a refund
    of the purchase price (but not charges for wireless service).
    ---
    http://www1.sprintpcs.com/explore/in...rmsPrivacy.jsp

    There's no guarantee of refunding the Early Termination Fee. But I want to
    research this next time I'm in the call center to be sure about that. I
    haven't ever handled a cancellation within 14 days of activation.

    >
    >> Most likely, Sprint's official *policy* is not to offer a discount
    >> on a new phone unless the customer renews his agreement. The policy
    >> probably also states
    >> that the salesperson is supposed to explain the requirement and get
    >> consent. But salespeople probably often just avoid talking about any
    >> agreement (after all, it might kill the sale) and rely on
    >> after-the-fact blustering (fraudulent
    >> lying) from *2 to smooth out the dis-agreement.


    I'm too much of an optimist to think it's dishonesty. Just laziness and
    carelessness. Not that it makes any real difference to the customer.
    --
    -+-
    RØß
    O/Siris
    I work for Sprint
    I *don't* speak for them





  15. #30
    Justin
    Guest

    Re: Question about contract renewal and early cancellation fee


    > I'm too much of an optimist to think it's dishonesty. Just laziness and
    > carelessness. Not that it makes any real difference to the customer.


    In the two stores I went to, no contracts were mentioned. Neither were the
    contracts mentioned by *2 people. It's either a huge lack of training, or
    simply an unstated policy used to get people on the hook for another
    year/two years.

    When something happens with this kind of regularity, it is likely policy.





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