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  1. #1
    Justin Green
    Guest

    "Bob Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > > "Bob Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > > > Not true Tom ... and as for the deductible, many homeowner & renter

    > > policies
    > > > still have a $100 deductible.

    > >
    > > What's not true? That they don't ding you for making a claim? They

    most
    > > certainly do. Many companies will consider dropping you all together

    > after
    > > two claims in a particular timeframe. They have become very picky about
    > > this now that big storms have ravaged their profits in some areas.
    > >
    > > Yes they do [have $100 deductibles in some cases]. If the financials

    and
    > > insurance risk associated with a $100 deductible for a claim against a

    > $300
    > > phone are not obvious, a little instrospective look at your finances

    might
    > > be in order.
    > >
    > > Tom Veldhouse

    >
    > Tom, are you in the industry? As I explained in another thread, there are
    > number of reasons why rates go up
    >
    > I've been in the industry for over 24 years. All in the commercial

    coverage
    > side of the business, selling P & C coverage to accounts that range in

    $2500
    > annual premiums to $350,000 in annual premiums. In my 24 plus years, our
    > carrier has only cancelled three of my accounts because of losses, and it
    > was because those insureds had a hellava lot more frequency in claims
    > reporting every year and with over 150% in continued loss ratios year

    after
    > year. In other words, they were problem accounts who couldn't or wouldn't
    > fix the problems which caused those claims in the first place, whether it
    > was a liability or a property exposure.
    >
    > As to a $100 deductible, I never said it was cost effective for the

    insured,
    > and I never said that I carried a low deductible like that. I said others

    do
    > ... JFTR, I have a $500 ded. on my homeowner's coverage, auto physical
    > damage, and a $2500 deductible on my E & O coverage. So, don't be pointing
    > fingers at yours truly as you have above.
    >
    > Bob



    My rates must have gone up because they needed the money, were allowed to
    raise rates, and the claim. I haven't had a speeding ticket in seven years.
    Oddly enough, this increase was after I turned 25, which is supposed to be
    (perhaps it's rumor) the age where male premiums decrease.





    See More: Insurance Rates again ... was disturbing Sprint policy facts, learned the hard way




  2. #2
    Bob Smith
    Guest

    Re: Insurance Rates again ... was Re: disturbing Sprint policy facts, learned the hard way


    "Justin Green" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    <snipped>
    >
    > My rates must have gone up because they needed the money, were allowed to
    > raise rates, and the claim. I haven't had a speeding ticket in seven

    years.
    > Oddly enough, this increase was after I turned 25, which is supposed to be
    > (perhaps it's rumor) the age where male premiums decrease.


    It's not etched in stone that one gets a rate reduction when hitting 25 ...
    There could one additional reason why your rates went up as well that I
    didn't mention. The loss frequency in your county. If there are a number of
    claims there, over and above the average of surrounding counties, your rates
    could go up.

    Bob





  3. #3
    Justin Green
    Guest

    Re: Insurance Rates again ... was Re: disturbing Sprint policy facts, learned the hard way


    "Bob Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "Justin Green" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > <snipped>
    > >
    > > My rates must have gone up because they needed the money, were allowed

    to
    > > raise rates, and the claim. I haven't had a speeding ticket in seven

    > years.
    > > Oddly enough, this increase was after I turned 25, which is supposed to

    be
    > > (perhaps it's rumor) the age where male premiums decrease.

    >
    > It's not etched in stone that one gets a rate reduction when hitting 25

    ....
    > There could one additional reason why your rates went up as well that I
    > didn't mention. The loss frequency in your county. If there are a number

    of
    > claims there, over and above the average of surrounding counties, your

    rates
    > could go up.
    >
    > Bob


    Do you recommend a particular insurer?





  4. #4
    Bob Smith
    Guest

    Re: Insurance Rates again ... was Re: disturbing Sprint policy facts, learned the hard way


    "Justin Green" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "Bob Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > > "Justin Green" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > > <snipped>
    > > >
    > > > My rates must have gone up because they needed the money, were allowed

    > to
    > > > raise rates, and the claim. I haven't had a speeding ticket in seven

    > > years.
    > > > Oddly enough, this increase was after I turned 25, which is supposed

    to
    > be
    > > > (perhaps it's rumor) the age where male premiums decrease.

    > >
    > > It's not etched in stone that one gets a rate reduction when hitting 25

    > ...
    > > There could one additional reason why your rates went up as well that I
    > > didn't mention. The loss frequency in your county. If there are a number

    > of
    > > claims there, over and above the average of surrounding counties, your

    > rates
    > > could go up.
    > >
    > > Bob

    >
    > Do you recommend a particular insurer?
    >

    Not a specific carrier, but what I would recommend is going to an agency or
    brokerage that sell coverage through multiple carriers, at least 5 or 6
    carriers. They can do an application, send it to all of them, and you can
    find out who offers the most competitive rates.

    Bob





  5. #5
    Justin Green
    Guest

    Re: Insurance Rates again ... was Re: disturbing Sprint policy facts, learned the hard way


    "Bob Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "Justin Green" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > > "Bob Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > > >
    > > > "Justin Green" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]
    > > > <snipped>
    > > > >
    > > > > My rates must have gone up because they needed the money, were

    allowed
    > > to
    > > > > raise rates, and the claim. I haven't had a speeding ticket in

    seven
    > > > years.
    > > > > Oddly enough, this increase was after I turned 25, which is supposed

    > to
    > > be
    > > > > (perhaps it's rumor) the age where male premiums decrease.
    > > >
    > > > It's not etched in stone that one gets a rate reduction when hitting

    25
    > > ...
    > > > There could one additional reason why your rates went up as well that

    I
    > > > didn't mention. The loss frequency in your county. If there are a

    number
    > > of
    > > > claims there, over and above the average of surrounding counties, your

    > > rates
    > > > could go up.
    > > >
    > > > Bob

    > >
    > > Do you recommend a particular insurer?
    > >

    > Not a specific carrier, but what I would recommend is going to an agency

    or
    > brokerage that sell coverage through multiple carriers, at least 5 or 6
    > carriers. They can do an application, send it to all of them, and you can
    > find out who offers the most competitive rates.
    >
    > Bob



    Thanks!





  6. #6
    Thomas T. Veldhouse
    Guest

    Re: Insurance Rates again ... was Re: disturbing Sprint policy facts, learned the hard way


    "Bob Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    >
    > Tom, are you in the industry? As I explained in another thread, there are
    > number of reasons why rates go up
    >


    No, I am not in the industry, other than as a customer of said industry. My
    brother however is, but I have not consulted him on this ... yet. In any
    event, you are assuming that DING==RATE INCREASE. That is not what I meant.
    What I meant is that it is a negative reflection upon you if you have made a
    claim, bar no incident. Trying to get new insurance when I bought a new
    home with a single 18 month old SMALL claim (amount to a net of $350) caused
    me a little trouble (not to mention I was getting it on 9/11/2001) as my
    closing was three days later.


    > I've been in the industry for over 24 years. All in the commercial

    coverage
    > side of the business, selling P & C coverage to accounts that range in

    $2500
    > annual premiums to $350,000 in annual premiums. In my 24 plus years, our
    > carrier has only cancelled three of my accounts because of losses, and it
    > was because those insureds had a hellava lot more frequency in claims
    > reporting every year and with over 150% in continued loss ratios year

    after
    > year. In other words, they were problem accounts who couldn't or wouldn't
    > fix the problems which caused those claims in the first place, whether it
    > was a liability or a property exposure.


    <SNIP> I had a nice response here, but it became irrelavent after what you
    said below.

    >
    > As to a $100 deductible, I never said it was cost effective for the

    insured,
    > and I never said that I carried a low deductible like that. I said others

    do
    > ... JFTR, I have a $500 ded. on my homeowner's coverage, auto physical
    > damage, and a $2500 deductible on my E & O coverage. So, don't be pointing
    > fingers at yours truly as you have above.


    I pointed fingers at *yours truly* because it is simply NOT good advice to
    be telling somebody that they can make a claim against their home owner's
    insurance for a lost or stolen cell phone (because of the relatively small
    value of a cell phone). Somebody without proper wisdom to know that even
    with a $100 deductible, this is foolish might just do what you said ... and
    it is irreponsible of you to give such advice if you know better (which you
    just said you do).

    Tom Veldhouse





  7. #7
    Thomas T. Veldhouse
    Guest

    Re: Insurance Rates again ... was Re: disturbing Sprint policy facts, learned the hard way


    "Bob Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > >

    > Not a specific carrier, but what I would recommend is going to an agency

    or
    > brokerage that sell coverage through multiple carriers, at least 5 or 6
    > carriers. They can do an application, send it to all of them, and you can
    > find out who offers the most competitive rates.
    >
    > Bob
    >
    >


    A good insurance agent does more than give you good rates, he/she give you
    advice on proper coverage limits. A 55 year old single man needs no life
    insurance for instance (well, generally anyway). Proper coverage is more
    important even than the best rate. So ... how about the Sprint PCS
    Equipment Protection Program ...

    Tom Veldhouse





  8. #8
    Bob Smith
    Guest

    Re: Insurance Rates again ... was Re: disturbing Sprint policy facts, learned the hard way


    "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "Bob Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > >
    > > Tom, are you in the industry? As I explained in another thread, there

    are
    > > number of reasons why rates go up
    > >

    >
    > No, I am not in the industry, other than as a customer of said industry.

    My
    > brother however is, but I have not consulted him on this ... yet. In any
    > event, you are assuming that DING==RATE INCREASE. That is not what I

    meant.
    > What I meant is that it is a negative reflection upon you if you have made

    a
    > claim, bar no incident. Trying to get new insurance when I bought a new
    > home with a single 18 month old SMALL claim (amount to a net of $350)

    caused
    > me a little trouble (not to mention I was getting it on 9/11/2001) as my
    > closing was three days later.


    You are basing the whole industry on your specific experience and the timing
    of your experience, and with only one carrier ... Sorry, but not all
    insurance carriers have the same underwriting guidelines. Some have tighter
    restrictions and some are a bit looser ...
    >
    >
    > > I've been in the industry for over 24 years. All in the commercial

    > coverage
    > > side of the business, selling P & C coverage to accounts that range in

    > $2500
    > > annual premiums to $350,000 in annual premiums. In my 24 plus years, our
    > > carrier has only cancelled three of my accounts because of losses, and

    it
    > > was because those insureds had a hellava lot more frequency in claims
    > > reporting every year and with over 150% in continued loss ratios year

    > after
    > > year. In other words, they were problem accounts who couldn't or

    wouldn't
    > > fix the problems which caused those claims in the first place, whether

    it
    > > was a liability or a property exposure.

    >
    > <SNIP> I had a nice response here, but it became irrelavent after what

    you
    > said below.
    >
    > >
    > > As to a $100 deductible, I never said it was cost effective for the

    > insured,
    > > and I never said that I carried a low deductible like that. I said

    others
    > do
    > > ... JFTR, I have a $500 ded. on my homeowner's coverage, auto physical
    > > damage, and a $2500 deductible on my E & O coverage. So, don't be

    pointing
    > > fingers at yours truly as you have above.

    >
    > I pointed fingers at *yours truly* because it is simply NOT good advice to
    > be telling somebody that they can make a claim against their home owner's
    > insurance for a lost or stolen cell phone (because of the relatively small
    > value of a cell phone). Somebody without proper wisdom to know that even
    > with a $100 deductible, this is foolish might just do what you said ...

    and
    > it is irreponsible of you to give such advice if you know better (which

    you
    > just said you do).
    >
    > Tom Veldhouse


    No, you pointed your finger, (your comments were snipped out of your reply),
    by saying "If the financials and insurance risk associated with a $100
    deductible for a claim against a $300 phone are not obvious, **a little
    instrospective look at your finances might be in order**."

    You directly pointed your finger with the comments bracketed by ** **. Just
    what do my finances have to do with anything here?

    As to being foolish, just what the hell are you buying coverage for, if not
    to protect you against a loss, whether it's a liability or property claim?
    Just for catastrophic claims? One itty bitty $250 claim (after the
    deductible) is not going to add any *Marks* on your record.

    Bob





  9. #9
    Steven J Sobol
    Guest

    Re: Insurance Rates again ... was Re: disturbing Sprint policy facts, learned the hard way

    Thomas T. Veldhouse <[email protected]> wrote:

    > A good insurance agent does more than give you good rates, he/she give you
    > advice on proper coverage limits. A 55 year old single man needs no life
    > insurance for instance (well, generally anyway).


    I don't know that I'd say "none", "little" may be more appropriate,
    otherwise what happens when he dies - who pays for his funeral?

    (But I'm picking nits here... I agree with the rest of the statement.

    --
    JustThe.net Internet & Multimedia Services
    22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * [email protected]



  10. #10
    Thomas T. Veldhouse
    Guest

    Re: Insurance Rates again ... was Re: disturbing Sprint policy facts, learned the hard way


    "Bob Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > No, you pointed your finger, (your comments were snipped out of your

    reply),
    > by saying "If the financials and insurance risk associated with a $100
    > deductible for a claim against a $300 phone are not obvious, **a little
    > instrospective look at your finances might be in order**."
    >


    That was to highlight that fact that your advice about claiming against
    homeowners insurance simply stunk!

    > You directly pointed your finger with the comments bracketed by ** **.

    Just
    > what do my finances have to do with anything here?


    If you make a bad decision about what money is better of spent or claimed on
    insurance, that same lack of judgement applies directly to the way you
    handle your money (because it is a money decision .. insurance is used to
    mitagate financial risk). Don't you think?

    >
    > As to being foolish, just what the hell are you buying coverage for, if

    not
    > to protect you against a loss, whether it's a liability or property claim?
    > Just for catastrophic claims? One itty bitty $250 claim (after the
    > deductible) is not going to add any *Marks* on your record.
    >


    Let's put it another way. If you have a $101 item and it is destroyed by a
    falling tree branch. Do you go to your insurance company and say, please
    send me $1 and I will send you the $100 deductible? So why, you saved
    yourself $1 in replacement cost. That is now a claim. Albiet for only $1.
    A claim in and of itself is a negative mark. The size of it is surely
    another. However, making such a claim in the first place is clearly
    outrageous. The $300 phone is simply a matter of scale. However, the cost
    of insurance and the cost of what you are insuring simply dwarf the $300 ...
    especially when the deductible, at its best, is 1/3 the cost of the item you
    are asking compensation for (assuming the phone is $300 to replace). You
    really primarily and foremost insuring your home. Making a claim such as
    above for something so small is quite irresponsible with your money and
    insurance (especially considering how insurance companies view claims ....
    ALL view a claim as a negative to one degree or another). And that is why I
    *pointed* a finger at you to look at your finances, because you appear to
    not see this, which says alot about the way you view money and that is why I
    say to take an instropective look at your finances.

    Well, enough of this barely Sprint PCS talk.

    Tom Veldhouse






  11. #11
    Thomas T. Veldhouse
    Guest

    Re: Insurance Rates again ... was Re: disturbing Sprint policy facts, learned the hard way


    "Steven J Sobol" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Thomas T. Veldhouse <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > A good insurance agent does more than give you good rates, he/she give

    you
    > > advice on proper coverage limits. A 55 year old single man needs no

    life
    > > insurance for instance (well, generally anyway).

    >
    > I don't know that I'd say "none", "little" may be more appropriate,
    > otherwise what happens when he dies - who pays for his funeral?


    Well, that is why I said in general. But honestly, life insurance for a
    person of age 55 is expensive. Much better to simply save for the funeral
    (prior to age 55) ... or accept the pine/box or aluminum urn.

    Tom Veldhouse

    >
    > (But I'm picking nits here... I agree with the rest of the statement.
    >
    > --
    > JustThe.net Internet & Multimedia Services
    > 22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
    > Steve Sobol, Proprietor
    > 888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET * [email protected]






  12. #12
    C Roth
    Guest

    Re: Insurance Rates again ... was Re: disturbing Sprint policy facts, learned the hard way

    On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 16:57:32 +0000, Bob Smith wrote:

    > Tom, are you in the industry? As I explained in another thread, there are
    > number of reasons why rates go up


    You need to step down a little bit.





  13. #13
    Phillipe
    Guest

    Re: Insurance Rates again ... was Re: disturbing Sprint policy facts, learned the hard way

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Justin Green" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > > Not a specific carrier, but what I would recommend is going to an agency

    > or
    > > brokerage that sell coverage through multiple carriers, at least 5 or 6
    > > carriers. They can do an application, send it to all of them, and you can
    > > find out who offers the most competitive rates.
    > >
    > > Bob

    >
    >
    > Thanks!


    And if the Agent needs to make a swimming pool payment; good liuck.
    These days it can be done on the web, cutting out the middleman;
    where rates may be lower becauise commissions dont need to be paid to
    agent middlemen.



  14. #14
    Bob Smith
    Guest

    Re: Insurance Rates again ... was Re: disturbing Sprint policy facts, learned the hard way


    "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "Bob Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > > No, you pointed your finger, (your comments were snipped out of your

    > reply),
    > > by saying "If the financials and insurance risk associated with a $100
    > > deductible for a claim against a $300 phone are not obvious, **a little
    > > instrospective look at your finances might be in order**."
    > >

    >
    > That was to highlight that fact that your advice about claiming against
    > homeowners insurance simply stunk!


    No it didn't.
    >
    > > You directly pointed your finger with the comments bracketed by ** **.

    > Just
    > > what do my finances have to do with anything here?

    >
    > If you make a bad decision about what money is better of spent or claimed

    on
    > insurance, that same lack of judgement applies directly to the way you
    > handle your money (because it is a money decision .. insurance is used to
    > mitagate financial risk). Don't you think?


    What you may decided as being better spent is your own opinion ...

    >
    > >
    > > As to being foolish, just what the hell are you buying coverage for, if

    > not
    > > to protect you against a loss, whether it's a liability or property

    claim?
    > > Just for catastrophic claims? One itty bitty $250 claim (after the
    > > deductible) is not going to add any *Marks* on your record.
    > >

    >
    > Let's put it another way. If you have a $101 item and it is destroyed by

    a
    > falling tree branch. Do you go to your insurance company and say, please
    > send me $1 and I will send you the $100 deductible? So why, you saved
    > yourself $1 in replacement cost. That is now a claim. Albiet for only

    $1.
    > A claim in and of itself is a negative mark. The size of it is surely
    > another. However, making such a claim in the first place is clearly
    > outrageous.


    On your example, yes it is outrageous. But it's a very poor example.

    > The $300 phone is simply a matter of scale. However, the cost
    > of insurance and the cost of what you are insuring simply dwarf the $300

    ....
    > especially when the deductible, at its best, is 1/3 the cost of the item

    you
    > are asking compensation for (assuming the phone is $300 to replace). You
    > really primarily and foremost insuring your home.


    Yes and no. You are insuring your home, but also your contents, and loss of
    use.

    > Making a claim such as
    > above for something so small is quite irresponsible with your money and
    > insurance (especially considering how insurance companies view claims ....


    They view it as part of their business. I should know, I was a claims
    adjuster as well ...

    > ALL view a claim as a negative to one degree or another).


    Only if the loss could have been avoided in the first place, like keeping
    the front porch and walk way dry and free & clear of obstacles. Insurance
    carriers realize that their insureds can lose things while on a trip, a
    burglary, a fire ... etc.

    > And that is why I
    > *pointed* a finger at you to look at your finances, because you appear to
    > not see this, which says alot about the way you view money and that is why

    I
    > say to take an instropective look at your finances.


    I see a lot more than you do Tom ...
    >
    > Well, enough of this barely Sprint PCS talk.


    I agree. If you want the last word in this discussion ... it's all yours.

    Bob





  15. #15
    Orac
    Guest

    Re: Insurance Rates again ... was Re: disturbing Sprint policy facts, learned the hard way

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Justin Green" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Bob Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > > "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > > >
    > > > "Bob Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > > Not true Tom ... and as for the deductible, many homeowner & renter
    > > > policies
    > > > > still have a $100 deductible.
    > > >
    > > > What's not true? That they don't ding you for making a claim? They

    > most
    > > > certainly do. Many companies will consider dropping you all together

    > > after
    > > > two claims in a particular timeframe. They have become very picky about
    > > > this now that big storms have ravaged their profits in some areas.
    > > >
    > > > Yes they do [have $100 deductibles in some cases]. If the financials

    > and
    > > > insurance risk associated with a $100 deductible for a claim against a

    > > $300
    > > > phone are not obvious, a little instrospective look at your finances

    > might
    > > > be in order.
    > > >
    > > > Tom Veldhouse

    > >
    > > Tom, are you in the industry? As I explained in another thread, there are
    > > number of reasons why rates go up
    > >
    > > I've been in the industry for over 24 years. All in the commercial

    > coverage
    > > side of the business, selling P & C coverage to accounts that range in

    > $2500
    > > annual premiums to $350,000 in annual premiums. In my 24 plus years, our
    > > carrier has only cancelled three of my accounts because of losses, and it
    > > was because those insureds had a hellava lot more frequency in claims
    > > reporting every year and with over 150% in continued loss ratios year

    > after
    > > year. In other words, they were problem accounts who couldn't or wouldn't
    > > fix the problems which caused those claims in the first place, whether it
    > > was a liability or a property exposure.
    > >
    > > As to a $100 deductible, I never said it was cost effective for the

    > insured,
    > > and I never said that I carried a low deductible like that. I said others

    > do
    > > ... JFTR, I have a $500 ded. on my homeowner's coverage, auto physical
    > > damage, and a $2500 deductible on my E & O coverage. So, don't be pointing
    > > fingers at yours truly as you have above.
    > >
    > > Bob

    >
    >
    > My rates must have gone up because they needed the money, were allowed to
    > raise rates, and the claim. I haven't had a speeding ticket in seven years.
    > Oddly enough, this increase was after I turned 25, which is supposed to be
    > (perhaps it's rumor) the age where male premiums decrease.


    Well, my rates did go down for me when I hit 25, but that was several
    years ago and in a different state, whose insurance was less messed up.

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    | inconvenience me with questions?"



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