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- 10-27-2003, 11:46 PM #1SeebsGuest
So, the most stunning thing about this is the sheer bulk quantity of massive,
total, incompetence. I can't imagine how they managed to end up with so many
people with totally different claims.
I have been told, in the past week:
1. Of course you can use Vision phones as modems, but only with Windows.
2. You have to buy the cable at Radio Shack.
3. No Vision phones can support a serial cable. (The Treo can, apparently?)
4. No Vision phones come with USB cables. (The Treo does.)
5. The Treo 300 is a 2G device.
6. If you want to use a phone as a modem, there's no technical support,
but you're allowed.
7. There's technical support, but you aren't supposed to do it.
8. Bandwith is charged at $0.02/kB for all Vision usage.
9. There are no additional charges on Vision usage.
10. Vision usage is charged $0.39/minute.
11. It is physically impossible for the computer to generate per-minute usage
charges on a Vision phone.
12. You get $0.39/minute charges for dialing external systems from a Vision
Phone, and can only connect at 14.4.
13. If you buy a Wireless Web plan, you don't get charged the $0.39/minute.
14. You can't buy a Wireless Web plan for a Vision phone.
15. You can buy a Wireless Web plan for a Vision phone, but only if you don't
buy a Vision plan.
16. Bandwidth is free, but if you use more than X, you will be stopped.
17. Bandwidth is free up to some point, after which you have to pay extra.
18. You can't buy modem service plans for phones, because they're competing
with the PC cards.
19. Only the PC cards work.
20. The Vision phones only work with Windows. The driver is proprietary.
21. The Vision phones work with everything. They use the standard USB modem
driver.
21. There is no such thing as a USB serial port.
22. The Treo 600 isn't released yet.
23. The Treo 600 is sold out.
What appears to be actually true:
* The Treo 600 is available.
* The Treo 600 uses the same protocol as other Visor handhelds did for USB
connectivity, but is not compatible with older HotSync software - you have
to use a "current" palm desktop.
* The Treo 600, using notifymail's "wmodem", works just great as a modem.
* No one can tell me at all what my billing will look like.
* If I connect it to my laptop, I get a PPP connection, but I get asked for
a name and password by the proxy server if I try to load a web page.
My guess is that this will be the name and password I found in System
Preferences, and that I'll need to get the password from the Sprint service
people, somehow, to get through the proxy server. I don't care that much,
as long as I can get ssh working.
It seems to me that the PC card "wireless modem" devices are probably the
root of the problem; in some way, they must be billed differently, and Sprint
can't figure out a way to bill for data usage consistently.
This is an immense, painful, stupidity. I know a lot of people would LOVE
to give them money for data access, and would be happy to agree to reasonable
bandwidth usage caps. Verizon sells that service; $40/month gets you some
number of MB of traffic, $80/month gets you more. Why can't Sprint sell
this same service?
For the curious, the Treo 600 works fine with NetBSD, and works with Linux
too. The Treo 300 does NOT work. I did need a very small patch to NetBSD;
it took all of 10 minutes to do, and I've submitted the patch to the
development team.
And, BTW, I've spent more than two hours today alone on hold with Sprint
trying to get the non-answers and contradictions listed above. These people
DESPERATELY need to get some basic training and accurate information out
to the account reps. And they also need to figure out how, given a product
people want badly, which they are ALREADY PROVIDING, to collect money.
Idiots. They could probably charge $10/month or more extra for "use Vision
with your laptop" and get paid, and that would certainly be enough to cover
way more bandwidth than I actually need. (I used my old phone to dial up for
maybe 15-20 hours in one week about twice a year; I don't want much more than
that out of Vision.)
-s
--
Copyright 2003, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / [email protected]
http://www.seebs.net/log/ - YA blog. http://www.seebs.net/ - homepage.
C/Unix wizard, pro-commerce radical, spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon!
Consulting, computers, web hosting, and shell access: http://www.plethora.net/
› See More: 3G modem features...
- 10-28-2003, 06:29 AM #2Jeff WilhelmGuest
Re: 3G modem features...
> 1. Of course you can use Vision phones as modems, but only with Windows.
Well, they *can* be used with other OSes, but the SprintPCS "package" has
conventionally always included only Windows software and drivers
> 2. You have to buy the cable at Radio Shack.
Possibly... I don't know if even Radio still sells the Vision cables. I was
under the impression they were pulled.
> 3. No Vision phones can support a serial cable. (The Treo can,
apparently?)
I think that's mainly true, except, if I recall correctly, an early LG
Vision phone.
> 4. No Vision phones come with USB cables. (The Treo does.)
I think that's the only one, and that's for HotSyncing.
> 5. The Treo 300 is a 2G device.
Not true.
> 6. If you want to use a phone as a modem, there's no technical support,
> but you're allowed.
There's minimal technical support, and you're allowed if it's a 2G phone.
It's frowned upon for 3G phones. Allowed for connection cards, etc...
> 7. There's technical support, but you aren't supposed to do it.
If you're not supposed to do it, makes sense you shouldn't need tech
support.
> 8. Bandwith is charged at $0.02/kB for all Vision usage.
True, if you aren't on a Vision plan.
> 9. There are no additional charges on Vision usage.
If you're on a Vision plan.
> 10. Vision usage is charged $0.39/minute.
Not true. Wireless Web (if not on a WW plan) is 39c per minute.
> 11. It is physically impossible for the computer to generate per-minute
usage
> charges on a Vision phone.
True, unless, if I understand correctly, you manually dial an ISP and don't
use the included internet connection inherent to Vision.
> 12. You get $0.39/minute charges for dialing external systems from a
Vision
> Phone, and can only connect at 14.4.
Exactly.
> 13. If you buy a Wireless Web plan, you don't get charged the
$0.39/minute.
True.
> 14. You can't buy a Wireless Web plan for a Vision phone.
Not true. If you have a WW and a Vision phone on a shared plan I think you
need both.
> 15. You can buy a Wireless Web plan for a Vision phone, but only if you
don't
> buy a Vision plan.
Errr...
> 16. Bandwidth is free, but if you use more than X, you will be stopped.
True to some degree, but mainly for the top 5% of users (i.e. gigabytes per
month over there phone).
> 17. Bandwidth is free up to some point, after which you have to pay
extra.
I think they just terminate you.
> 18. You can't buy modem service plans for phones, because they're
competing
> with the PC cards.
True.
> 19. Only the PC cards work.
Huh? My phone works...
> 20. The Vision phones only work with Windows. The driver is proprietary.
Kind of, but people have had limited success with other OSes.
> 21. The Vision phones work with everything. They use the standard USB
modem
> driver.
Is there a standard USB Modem driver? I don't think so.
> 21. There is no such thing as a USB serial port.
Right.
> 22. The Treo 600 isn't released yet.
It's out.
> 23. The Treo 600 is sold out.
Maybe at some locations...
Jeff Wilhelm
jeffwilhelm.com
- 10-28-2003, 10:21 AM #3SeebsGuest
Re: 3G modem features...
In article <[email protected]>,
Jeff Wilhelm <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 1. Of course you can use Vision phones as modems, but only with Windows.
>Well, they *can* be used with other OSes, but the SprintPCS "package" has
>conventionally always included only Windows software and drivers
Right. But this is wrong on both counts; they work fine with other OS's,
and they aren't supposed to be used aas modems.
>> 2. You have to buy the cable at Radio Shack.
>Possibly... I don't know if even Radio still sells the Vision cables. I was
>under the impression they were pulled.
The Treo 600 comes with a cable.
>> 4. No Vision phones come with USB cables. (The Treo does.)
>I think that's the only one, and that's for HotSyncing.
Yes, but it works fine as a data cable.
>> 5. The Treo 300 is a 2G device.
>Not true.
Exactly my point.
>> 6. If you want to use a phone as a modem, there's no technical support,
>> but you're allowed.
>There's minimal technical support, and you're allowed if it's a 2G phone.
>It's frowned upon for 3G phones. Allowed for connection cards, etc...
Uh-huh.
>> 7. There's technical support, but you aren't supposed to do it.
>If you're not supposed to do it, makes sense you shouldn't need tech
>support.
But the claim was that they *do* provide tech support.
>> 8. Bandwith is charged at $0.02/kB for all Vision usage.
>True, if you aren't on a Vision plan.
The other number I heard was $10/MB. Which is different.
>True, unless, if I understand correctly, you manually dial an ISP and don't
>use the included internet connection inherent to Vision.
Right, but I told the rep I was talking to that I was specifically talking
about calling *off* the network. She was, simply, totally wrong..
>> 14. You can't buy a Wireless Web plan for a Vision phone.
>Not true. If you have a WW and a Vision phone on a shared plan I think you
>need both.
Well, what I'd *love* to be able to do is spend the $5/month and be allowed
14.4 dialup using regular minutes on my Vision phone.
>> 20. The Vision phones only work with Windows. The driver is proprietary.
>Kind of, but people have had limited success with other OSes.
Well, the Treo at least is a standard USB visor; several of the others
are 100% standard USB modems.
>> 21. The Vision phones work with everything. They use the standard USB
>modem
>> driver.
>Is there a standard USB Modem driver? I don't think so.
Yes, there is. "ACM".
From the Linux kernel:
The drivers/usb/acm.c drivers works with USB modems and
USB ISDN terminal adapters that conform to the Universal
Serial Bus Communication Device Class Abstract Control
Model (USB CDC ACM) specification.
There is a standard. Many devices follow it.
>> 21. There is no such thing as a USB serial port.
>Right.
No, it isn't.
USB to serial adapters are made by about 15 vendors. In fact, the Handspring
Visor's USB driver simply provides a standard serial port protocol once it's
hooked up.
There are TONS of USB devices which act like serial ports, and many of them
go so far as to offer standard 9-pin connections. However, the standard
USB modem provides a device which does exactly the same things as a PC com
port; it supports I/O, it lets you set baud rates, and so on.
-s
--
Copyright 2003, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / [email protected]
http://www.seebs.net/log/ - YA blog. http://www.seebs.net/ - homepage.
C/Unix wizard, pro-commerce radical, spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon!
Consulting, computers, web hosting, and shell access: http://www.plethora.net/
- 10-28-2003, 11:46 AM #4Dr WakkGuest
Re: 3G modem features...
buy cables at best buy, from http://www.discountcell.com from
http://www.futuredial.com (the manufacturer's website). If there are any
variations of cabling for USB/serial singles or combos for any make/model
PCS (or other carrier) handsets including smartphones, futuredial will have
it.. they are the suppliers for all the diagnostic cables in sprint stores
and service centers..
just get the cable, then download the drivers from the PCS website. get the
dialup manager for vision enabled phones. do not use the old 2G programs as
they cause you to be charged at a per minute rate and only deliver 14400 bps
max (a double negative) the phone dials #777 to access 1XRTT rates, this is
in the dialup mgr for vision.
LG5350 and TREO both have serial and USB connectors, but consider buying a
$5 buck USB card. put it in and voila! $5 is not much........
DrWakk
lovin' the limbo-life
"Seebs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> So, the most stunning thing about this is the sheer bulk quantity of
massive,
> total, incompetence. I can't imagine how they managed to end up with so
many
> people with totally different claims.
>
> I have been told, in the past week:
> 1. Of course you can use Vision phones as modems, but only with Windows.
> 2. You have to buy the cable at Radio Shack.
> 3. No Vision phones can support a serial cable. (The Treo can,
apparently?)
> 4. No Vision phones come with USB cables. (The Treo does.)
> 5. The Treo 300 is a 2G device.
> 6. If you want to use a phone as a modem, there's no technical support,
> but you're allowed.
> 7. There's technical support, but you aren't supposed to do it.
> 8. Bandwith is charged at $0.02/kB for all Vision usage.
> 9. There are no additional charges on Vision usage.
> 10. Vision usage is charged $0.39/minute.
> 11. It is physically impossible for the computer to generate per-minute
usage
> charges on a Vision phone.
> 12. You get $0.39/minute charges for dialing external systems from a
Vision
> Phone, and can only connect at 14.4.
> 13. If you buy a Wireless Web plan, you don't get charged the
$0.39/minute.
> 14. You can't buy a Wireless Web plan for a Vision phone.
> 15. You can buy a Wireless Web plan for a Vision phone, but only if you
don't
> buy a Vision plan.
> 16. Bandwidth is free, but if you use more than X, you will be stopped.
> 17. Bandwidth is free up to some point, after which you have to pay
extra.
> 18. You can't buy modem service plans for phones, because they're
competing
> with the PC cards.
> 19. Only the PC cards work.
> 20. The Vision phones only work with Windows. The driver is proprietary.
> 21. The Vision phones work with everything. They use the standard USB
modem
> driver.
> 21. There is no such thing as a USB serial port.
> 22. The Treo 600 isn't released yet.
> 23. The Treo 600 is sold out.
>
> What appears to be actually true:
>
> * The Treo 600 is available.
> * The Treo 600 uses the same protocol as other Visor handhelds did for USB
> connectivity, but is not compatible with older HotSync software - you
have
> to use a "current" palm desktop.
> * The Treo 600, using notifymail's "wmodem", works just great as a modem.
> * No one can tell me at all what my billing will look like.
> * If I connect it to my laptop, I get a PPP connection, but I get asked
for
> a name and password by the proxy server if I try to load a web page.
>
> My guess is that this will be the name and password I found in System
> Preferences, and that I'll need to get the password from the Sprint
service
> people, somehow, to get through the proxy server. I don't care that much,
> as long as I can get ssh working.
>
> It seems to me that the PC card "wireless modem" devices are probably the
> root of the problem; in some way, they must be billed differently, and
Sprint
> can't figure out a way to bill for data usage consistently.
>
> This is an immense, painful, stupidity. I know a lot of people would LOVE
> to give them money for data access, and would be happy to agree to
reasonable
> bandwidth usage caps. Verizon sells that service; $40/month gets you some
> number of MB of traffic, $80/month gets you more. Why can't Sprint sell
> this same service?
>
> For the curious, the Treo 600 works fine with NetBSD, and works with Linux
> too. The Treo 300 does NOT work. I did need a very small patch to
NetBSD;
> it took all of 10 minutes to do, and I've submitted the patch to the
> development team.
>
> And, BTW, I've spent more than two hours today alone on hold with Sprint
> trying to get the non-answers and contradictions listed above. These
people
> DESPERATELY need to get some basic training and accurate information out
> to the account reps. And they also need to figure out how, given a
product
> people want badly, which they are ALREADY PROVIDING, to collect money.
> Idiots. They could probably charge $10/month or more extra for "use
Vision
> with your laptop" and get paid, and that would certainly be enough to
cover
> way more bandwidth than I actually need. (I used my old phone to dial up
for
> maybe 15-20 hours in one week about twice a year; I don't want much more
than
> that out of Vision.)
>
> -s
> --
> Copyright 2003, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach /
[email protected]
> http://www.seebs.net/log/ - YA blog. http://www.seebs.net/ -
homepage.
> C/Unix wizard, pro-commerce radical, spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon!
> Consulting, computers, web hosting, and shell access:
http://www.plethora.net/
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