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  1. #31
    DevilsPGD
    Guest

    Re: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?

    In message <[email protected]> [email protected]
    (Gordon Burditt) wrote:

    >>However, if I know that no help is coming because when I dialed 911 I
    >>got a "Stop! You cannot dial 911 from this phone" message (like Vonage
    >>does for accounts without 911 service enabled), I'll know that I either
    >>need to grab my cell phone and call for help, or escape on my own.

    >
    >Agreed here.
    >
    >Another issue which comes up occasionally, but I've luckily never
    >had to deal with it personally: How do I call 911 for another area?
    >Example: I'm talking on the phone to my mother (in another state),
    >she stops talking, groans, says HELP a couple of times, drops the
    >phone, then silence. Assuming I think she might have just had a
    >heart attack, how do I get help for her?


    My understanding is that if you dial 911 they'll eventually be able to
    get you though to the right place. Maybe.

    However, people aren't likely to be rational when they're going through
    an emergency themselves.


    --
    Microsoft: Putting the PR into proprietary.



    See More: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?




  2. #32
    Ivor Jones
    Guest

    Re: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?

    [email protected] wrote:
    > On Thu, 19 May 2005 13:43:59 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> Mark wrote:
    >>> On 15 May 2005 16:40:01 -0700, "John" <[email protected]>
    >>> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Did you ask permission to reproduce copyrighted material?
    >>>
    >>> My, that is a mighty impressive and shiny netcop badge you have on
    >>> your chest.
    >>>
    >>> Now shut your hole.

    >>
    >> Don't be abusive. Answer the question, it is a reasonable one.
    >>
    >> Ivor
    >>

    >
    > NOt at all reasonable, although one that is frequently asked by anal
    > retentive posters.


    You have obviously never had any of *your* copyright material used without
    your permission.

    Ivor





  3. #33
    Don S
    Guest

    Re: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?

    In article <[email protected]>, HorneTD <[email protected]> wrote:
    > That service was
    >delivered over a pair of copper wires that went from a telephone Central
    >Office (CO) to the subscribers premise. It's voice signals were powered
    >from the CO's batteries which were recharged from motor generators
    >driven by the local electrical utility or by on sight generation when
    >utility power was unavailable.


    Typically, the nominal -48Vdc power for the MTSO/CO is provided by a power
    system that converts AC to DC. The batteries are only used in the event of a
    power outage. They are connected via busbar so there is no transfer time.
    Most critical sites also have one or more backup gen-sets to provide power
    beyond the battery capacity.

    You also need this in the remote/DLC cabinets and cell sites that may be
    serving the end user. If the cell site or DLC dies, the end sub has no
    service, regardless of the condition of the upstream MTSO or CO.



  4. #34
    Rick Merrill
    Guest

    Re: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?

    DevilsPGD wrote:

    > In message <[email protected]> [email protected]
    > (Gordon Burditt) wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>However, if I know that no help is coming because when I dialed 911 I
    >>>got a "Stop! You cannot dial 911 from this phone" message (like Vonage
    >>>does for accounts without 911 service enabled), I'll know that I either
    >>>need to grab my cell phone and call for help, or escape on my own.

    >>
    >>Agreed here.
    >>
    >>Another issue which comes up occasionally, but I've luckily never
    >>had to deal with it personally: How do I call 911 for another area?
    >>Example: I'm talking on the phone to my mother (in another state),
    >>she stops talking, groans, says HELP a couple of times, drops the
    >>phone, then silence. Assuming I think she might have just had a
    >>heart attack, how do I get help for her?

    >
    >
    > My understanding is that if you dial 911 they'll eventually be able to
    > get you though to the right place. Maybe.
    >
    > However, people aren't likely to be rational when they're going through
    > an emergency themselves.
    >
    >


    Remember that case where two guys on a chat line (or were they playing
    chess by computer?) and the one in England had a heart attack and the
    guy in the US called for help?



  5. #35
    Jer
    Guest

    Re: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?

    Gordon Burditt wrote:

    > Another issue which comes up occasionally, but I've luckily never
    > had to deal with it personally: How do I call 911 for another area?
    > Example: I'm talking on the phone to my mother (in another state),
    > she stops talking, groans, says HELP a couple of times, drops the
    > phone, then silence. Assuming I think she might have just had a
    > heart attack, how do I get help for her?
    >
    > Gordon L. Burditt



    Having a sister who's an operator, this is easy for me to answer... in
    this situation, forget 911, dial "0", when the operator answers, explain
    that you have an emergency and need to speak to law enforcement for
    medical assistance in your mother's location. They will make every
    attempt to connect you to the appropriate authority and will stay on the
    line until that happens. Operators have been providing this level of
    service for many years and are glad to help any way they can under these
    circumstances.

    --
    jer
    email reply - I am not a 'ten'



  6. #36
    Jer
    Guest

    Re: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?

    HorneTD wrote:
    > When you dial 911 will your call even go through is the instant question
    > and this decision is not a panacea. 911 was entirely developed around
    > traditional Plain Old Telephone Service (POTS). That service was
    > delivered over a pair of copper wires that went from a telephone Central
    > Office (CO) to the subscribers premise. It's voice signals were powered
    > from the CO's batteries which were recharged from motor generators
    > driven by the local electrical utility or by on sight generation when
    > utility power was unavailable. Since telephone service developed before
    > rather than after reliable public electrical power was available in many
    > communities the COs were all built to be self sufficient and the local
    > operating companies never changed that practice. None of the new comers
    > to the industry ever tried to imitate the level of reliability that the
    > LOCs achieved. Many of the disputes between the new comers and the LOCs
    > have been about how much access the new comers would have to the LOCs
    > resources rather than the LOCs subscribers. The LOCs have very good
    > reasons to fight against the new comers getting space in the exchanges,
    > access to exchange power, and use of exchange switching equipment at
    > bargain basement rates. All of the new comers attack the LOCs for
    > demanding full cost pricing including a profitable return on the LOCs
    > physical plant investments.


    This was precisely the issue when AT&T started providing local exchange
    service from inside the local CO. Their equipment was piggy-backed onto
    the emergency power system, thereby deriving the same benefits as the
    local carrier did. Without equitable pricing, AT&T was getting a cheap
    ride on some very expensive investments by the local carrier.

    >
    > Mean while the rate of telephone service having exceeded 95% of all
    > households nation wide all of the nations major cities have abandoned
    > their once substantial investment in emergency communications systems
    > which allowed citizens to call for help without using the Switched
    > Telephone Network. The most familiar example of such systems was the
    > network of street fire alarm boxes that many cities maintained until the
    > seventies. The signals from those alarms traveled on dedicated wires,
    > over redundant pathways, with continuous supervision of the circuits
    > integrity. Such expensive but very reliable emergency reporting systems
    > only exist as a few remnants in a few places.
    >
    > As competition puts more and more pressure on investment reliability of
    > service will go the way of the dodo. We may begin to see architects
    > designing watchtowers into new fire stations so the watchman can look
    > for the loom up of the fire within their service areas if the trend
    > continues.



    --
    jer
    email reply - I am not a 'ten'



  7. #37
    Rick Merrill
    Guest

    Re: When You Dial Operator, Can Help Find You?

    Jer wrote:

    > Gordon Burditt wrote:
    >
    >> Another issue which comes up occasionally, but I've luckily never
    >> had to deal with it personally: How do I call 911 for another area?
    >> Example: I'm talking on the phone to my mother (in another state),
    >> she stops talking, groans, says HELP a couple of times, drops the
    >> phone, then silence. Assuming I think she might have just had a
    >> heart attack, how do I get help for her?
    >>
    >> Gordon L. Burditt

    >
    >
    >
    > Having a sister who's an operator, this is easy for me to answer... in
    > this situation, forget 911, dial "0", when the operator answers, explain
    > that you have an emergency and need to speak to law enforcement for
    > medical assistance in your mother's location. They will make every
    > attempt to connect you to the appropriate authority and will stay on the
    > line until that happens. Operators have been providing this level of
    > service for many years and are glad to help any way they can under these
    > circumstances.
    >


    Good advice, except that the context of this thread was VoIP, and most
    VoIP services do NOT have "operator"! (This is how they lower costs.)



  8. #38
    Blue
    Guest

    Re: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?


    "MrPepper11" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    May 12, 2005
    Cellphone Hangup: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?

    Is there any movement on this issue toward location of the phone by a
    combination of:

    1. Current satellite location, or
    2. Last satellite location, or
    3. Cell tower triangulation location?





  9. #39
    Rick Merrill
    Guest

    Re: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?

    Blue wrote:

    > "MrPepper11" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > May 12, 2005
    > Cellphone Hangup: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?
    >
    > Is there any movement on this issue toward location of the phone by a
    > combination of:
    >
    > 1. Current satellite location, or
    > 2. Last satellite location, or
    > 3. Cell tower triangulation location?
    >
    >


    Only in cell phones. It would be a waste to put GPS in an ATA :-)




  10. #40
    DevilsPGD
    Guest

    Re: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?

    In message <[email protected]> Rick Merrill
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >DevilsPGD wrote:
    >
    >> My understanding is that if you dial 911 they'll eventually be able to
    >> get you though to the right place. Maybe.
    >>
    >> However, people aren't likely to be rational when they're going through
    >> an emergency themselves.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >Remember that case where two guys on a chat line (or were they playing
    >chess by computer?) and the one in England had a heart attack and the
    >guy in the US called for help?


    No actually, I don't...


    --
    Study reveals half the country has below-average intelligence.





  11. #41
    Jer
    Guest

    Re: When You Dial Operator, Can Help Find You?

    Rick Merrill wrote:
    > Jer wrote:
    >
    >> Gordon Burditt wrote:
    >>
    >>> Another issue which comes up occasionally, but I've luckily never
    >>> had to deal with it personally: How do I call 911 for another area?
    >>> Example: I'm talking on the phone to my mother (in another state),
    >>> she stops talking, groans, says HELP a couple of times, drops the
    >>> phone, then silence. Assuming I think she might have just had a
    >>> heart attack, how do I get help for her?
    >>>
    >>> Gordon L. Burditt

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Having a sister who's an operator, this is easy for me to answer...
    >> in this situation, forget 911, dial "0", when the operator answers,
    >> explain that you have an emergency and need to speak to law
    >> enforcement for medical assistance in your mother's location. They
    >> will make every attempt to connect you to the appropriate authority
    >> and will stay on the line until that happens. Operators have been
    >> providing this level of service for many years and are glad to help
    >> any way they can under these circumstances.
    >>

    >
    > Good advice, except that the context of this thread was VoIP, and most
    > VoIP services do NOT have "operator"! (This is how they lower costs.)



    Another revelation! Is it available as an pay-extra feature?

    --
    jer
    email reply - I am not a 'ten'



  12. #42
    Jer
    Guest

    Re: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?

    Joseph wrote:
    > On Wed, 18 May 2005 18:28:13 -0500, Jer <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>rick++ wrote:
    >>
    >>>InterNet telephones are next on the list to be forced to
    >>>implement 911. Simiolar issue to cellphones, because
    >>>there may not be location info.
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >>Why wouldn't there be any location info? All anyone needs to do is the
    >>same thing a landline provider does - key the service address into the
    >>database.

    >
    >
    > What if the 911 caller is unable or unsure of the address from which
    > they are reporting? That's what E911 is all about.
    >


    Well, yeah, there's that, and not all callers speak the same language as
    the PSAP operator, not all callers are sober, and some callers are just
    dumber than a bag of hammers and have no clue where the hell they are
    until excrement occurs. OTOH, if one can simply edit their location
    info via a secure webpage, then that makes things a lot simpler. But
    there are other deal killers in the loop.


    --
    jer
    email reply - I am not a 'ten'



  13. #43
    Jer
    Guest

    Re: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?

    Rick Merrill wrote:
    > DevilsPGD wrote:
    >
    >> In message <[email protected]> [email protected]
    >> (Gordon Burditt) wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>> However, if I know that no help is coming because when I dialed 911 I
    >>>> got a "Stop! You cannot dial 911 from this phone" message (like Vonage
    >>>> does for accounts without 911 service enabled), I'll know that I either
    >>>> need to grab my cell phone and call for help, or escape on my own.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Agreed here.
    >>>
    >>> Another issue which comes up occasionally, but I've luckily never
    >>> had to deal with it personally: How do I call 911 for another area?
    >>> Example: I'm talking on the phone to my mother (in another state),
    >>> she stops talking, groans, says HELP a couple of times, drops the
    >>> phone, then silence. Assuming I think she might have just had a
    >>> heart attack, how do I get help for her?

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> My understanding is that if you dial 911 they'll eventually be able to
    >> get you though to the right place. Maybe.
    >>
    >> However, people aren't likely to be rational when they're going through
    >> an emergency themselves.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Remember that case where two guys on a chat line (or were they playing
    > chess by computer?) and the one in England had a heart attack and the
    > guy in the US called for help?



    Yeah, I do, they both knew where the other was because they both
    belonged to the same club. A no-brainer.

    --
    jer
    email reply - I am not a 'ten'



  14. #44
    Jer
    Guest

    Re: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?

    Joseph wrote:
    > On Fri, 20 May 2005 08:04:29 -0500, Jer <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>This was precisely the issue when AT&T started providing local exchange
    >>service from inside the local CO. Their equipment was piggy-backed onto
    >>the emergency power system, thereby deriving the same benefits as the
    >>local carrier did. Without equitable pricing, AT&T was getting a cheap
    >>ride on some very expensive investments by the local carrier.

    >
    >
    > For 98% of the US AT&T *was* the local carrier. AT&T had a major
    > investment in pretty much all the Bell companies with the exception of
    > SNET (Southern New England Telephone) and Cincinnati & Suburban Bell
    > Telephone. Except for the independents and except for GTE and Contel
    > Bell owned most of the infrastructure in the US and a partial interest
    > in Bell Canada in Ontario and Québec.
    >
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >



    Well, yeah, back when the RBOCs were owned by Ma Bell - pre-MFJ. But
    that was then and this is now. AT&T was not a local carrier anywhere in
    Texas, but they sure wanted to squirrel their way under SBC's sheets.
    They eventually did in major urban service areas, and SBC wound up
    taking several financial hits for the additional load on the power
    infrastructure, in-building HVAC operating costs, etc. primarily because
    AT&T usage fees were tied directly to their revenue stream. In most
    places that wasn't much.

    --
    jer
    email reply - I am not a 'ten'




  15. #45
    Jer
    Guest

    Re: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?

    Blue wrote:
    > "MrPepper11" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > May 12, 2005
    > Cellphone Hangup: When You Dial 911, Can Help Find You?
    >
    > Is there any movement on this issue toward location of the phone by a
    > combination of:
    >
    > 1. Current satellite location, or
    > 2. Last satellite location, or
    > 3. Cell tower triangulation location?
    >
    >



    Everything you ever wanted to know about TDOA...

    http://www.trueposition.com

    --
    jer
    email reply - I am not a 'ten'



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