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  1. #151
    Steven M. Scharf
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?


    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Wed, 25 May 2005 00:50:47 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > I rarely use all my allocated minutes, which is why I'd like
    > >the US system - using some of them for incoming calls would benefit me by
    > >helping me to use them all up as well as the caller by reducing their
    > >costs.

    >
    > No, it would simply put up the cost of the bundle. They are priced on
    > the expectation that most inclusive minutes are not used, because so
    > many people are too innumerate to realise that having all your calls
    > in bundle is a bad idea.


    I was surprised, and pleased, to get a letter from Verizon, with the
    notification "Your Plan is Too Big For You." I had signed up for 400 peak
    minutes per month ($45), and was using around 250 peak minutes a month..I
    actually use a lot more than 250 minutes per month, but with free mobile to
    mobile, and free nights and weekends, it's hard to use up 300 peak minutes,
    especially since nearly everyone I know has the same mobile carrier. Prepay
    would be more expensive since it doesn't come with free nights and weekends.
    Also, most people now use their mobile phones in lieu of their landline for
    long distance.





    See More: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?




  2. #152
    Jerome Zelinske
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    In that case the call would be to 911, not a regular land line or
    wireless number.



  3. #153
    Miguel Cruz
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Joseph <[email protected]> wrote:
    > "Steven M. Scharf" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> The key to converting Europe to RPP may lie in implementing FIMF (first
    >> incoming minute free), to eliminate the fear that some subscribers have
    >> about being charged for calls that they do not want to receive.

    >
    > Most US carriers had this feature for a while. Unless you've got an
    > old grandfathered plan such does not exist any longer.


    It's become obsolete as US consumers have become comfortable with their
    phones and realized that the fears of going broke at the hands of
    telemarketers and wrong-numberers were groundless.

    Since the European market is evidently still quite superstitious about such
    things, it could well be useful there.

    miguel
    --
    Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
    Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan



  4. #154
    Miguel Cruz
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Miguel Cruz <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> The contorted arguments in defense of this state of affairs remind me of
    >> a thread in rec.travel.europe a few years ago where a bunch of Europeans
    >> yelled themselves hoarse in defense of paying per minute for local calls.
    >> As far as I could tell, the fundamental argument was, "okay, fine, we
    >> give buckets more money to the phone company than they do for the same
    >> service, but we're used to it and they are stupid Americans, so our
    >> system is better."

    >
    > I don't remember that thread.


    Start here (if you're a glutton for punishment and have lots of time on your
    hands):

    http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...1afd34a1ccd1fc

    >> Now someone figure out how Singapore manages to have caller-pays phones but
    >> still keeps termination charges about the same as those for landlines.

    >
    > Given the population density and size of Singapore, it's apples and
    > oranges.


    Um, okay, how about China?

    miguel
    --
    Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
    Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan



  5. #155
    chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Miguel Cruz <[email protected]> wrote:

    > chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco
    > <[email protected]> wrote: > Miguel Cruz <[email protected]>
    > wrote:

    []
    > >> Now someone figure out how Singapore manages to have caller-pays phones but
    > >> still keeps termination charges about the same as those for landlines.

    > >
    > > Given the population density and size of Singapore, it's apples and
    > > oranges.

    >
    > Um, okay, how about China?


    How about it? I'm sure you could get a suit hand tailored there for a
    lot less too...

    --
    David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
    usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk



  6. #156
    Andy Pandy
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?


    "chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:1gx7sfa.ouag9w1p4omrhN%[email protected]
    > > >> Now someone figure out how Singapore manages to have caller-pays phones

    but
    > > >> still keeps termination charges about the same as those for landlines.
    > > >
    > > > Given the population density and size of Singapore, it's apples and
    > > > oranges.

    > >
    > > Um, okay, how about China?

    >
    > How about it? I'm sure you could get a suit hand tailored there for a
    > lot less too...


    The US has a much lower population density than the UK, yet lower mobile charges
    overall. Termination charges charged by UK mobile operators are a rip-off, pure
    and simple.

    I think a simple way to end this rip-off while retaining the caller pays system,
    would be if OFCOM banned T&C's which restrict who can buy mobile tariffs and
    what they can use them for. If a mobile tariff is available to the public, then
    anyone should be able to buy it, including other telcos.

    Then you'd get discount telcos like 1899 buying banks of mobiles on top-end
    contracts, and using them to route calls to mobiles and being able to offer very
    cheap rates. BT could even do it. Termination revenues would then plummet and
    the mobile operators would be forced into a more honest pricing policy. And
    prices would be cheaper overall.

    --
    Andy





  7. #157
    chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Andy Pandy <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
    > <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:1gx7sfa.ouag9w1p4omrhN%[email protected]
    > > > >> Now someone figure out how Singapore manages to have caller-pays phones

    > but
    > > > >> still keeps termination charges about the same as those for landlines.
    > > > >
    > > > > Given the population density and size of Singapore, it's apples and
    > > > > oranges.
    > > >
    > > > Um, okay, how about China?

    > >
    > > How about it? I'm sure you could get a suit hand tailored there for a
    > > lot less too...

    >
    > The US has a much lower population density than the UK, yet lower mobile
    > charges overall.


    Define overall. I'm very happy with what I get for my 15 quid a month,
    and I can't offhand think of any plan I'd rather have- other than it
    being free. I'm happy to pay 10p a minute to call a UK mobile- even
    happier with the 6p I currently pay (for a limited time.)

    --
    David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
    usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk



  8. #158
    Andy Pandy
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?


    "chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:1gx7ymi.xqhsw4gj845yN%[email protected]
    > > The US has a much lower population density than the UK, yet lower mobile
    > > charges overall.

    >
    > Define overall.


    The average cost of a call is lower (including charges paid by both parties).

    > I'm very happy with what I get for my 15 quid a month,
    > and I can't offhand think of any plan I'd rather have-


    But you only have a choice of UK plans. Your combination of Orange ED50 plus
    1899 is a good deal *for the UK* but I'd wager it could be beaten in the US
    (factoring in of course the premiums paid by your callers).

    You're plan is - let's see if this is right - 15 a month, inclusive 50 minutes
    offpeak a day to landlines and Orange mobiles (perhaps 25% of UK mobiles). To
    call other mobiles you pay 3p + 10ppm during the week, 2ppm at weekends. To call
    landlines peak you pay 3p per call. People calling you generally pay a 10ppm
    premium.

    > other than it
    > being free. I'm happy to pay 10p a minute to call a UK mobile- even
    > happier with the 6p I currently pay (for a limited time.)


    10ppm is a rip-off. I can call someone in Sydney for a tenth of that price (1ppm
    with Telediscount to Australia).

    You might be happy paying 3 for a half hour chat, but I'm not.

    Still, if most people are like you, I might just get a 10ppm premium rate 09xx
    number - after all if people don't mind paying that sort of price I might as
    well make some money out of it!

    --
    Andy





  9. #159
    chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Andy Pandy <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
    > <this_ad[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:1gx7ymi.xqhsw4gj845yN%[email protected]
    > > > The US has a much lower population density than the UK, yet lower mobile
    > > > charges overall.

    > >
    > > Define overall.

    >
    > The average cost of a call is lower (including charges paid by both parties).
    >
    > > I'm very happy with what I get for my 15 quid a month,
    > > and I can't offhand think of any plan I'd rather have-

    >
    > But you only have a choice of UK plans. Your combination of Orange ED50 plus
    > 1899 is a good deal *for the UK* but I'd wager it could be beaten in the US
    > (factoring in of course the premiums paid by your callers).


    Which plan beats it then, for my uses.

    >
    > You're plan is - let's see if this is right - 15 a month, inclusive 50
    > minutes offpeak a day to landlines and Orange mobiles (perhaps 25% of UK
    > mobiles).


    And calls to practically all the landlines I'm likely to call abroad.

    > To call other mobiles you pay 3p + 10ppm during the week, 2ppm at
    > weekends. To call landlines peak you pay 3p per call. People calling you
    > generally pay a 10ppm premium.


    I generally call landlines, both here and abroad, from my mobile. I pay
    extremely low rates abroad as well, and I can call most of those numbers
    as part of my inclusive calls. Seems like a pretty good deal to me-
    there's a good reason it's not available to new susbcribers, without
    transferring the plan from one person to another.

    >
    > > other than it
    > > being free. I'm happy to pay 10p a minute to call a UK mobile- even
    > > happier with the 6p I currently pay (for a limited time.)

    >
    > 10ppm is a rip-off. I can call someone in Sydney for a tenth of that price
    > (1ppm with Telediscount to Australia).


    I can call someone in Australia using inclusive minutes, but I won't be
    able to call a mobile in Sydney for that- nor will you- so make sure
    you've got your comparisons straight.

    > You might be happy paying 3 for a half hour chat, but I'm not.


    I don't chat for half an hour when I'm calling someone's mobile. Most of
    the calls I do make to mobiles are relatively short- and it's not
    something that bothers me. The caller pays system has distinct
    advantages for me as the consumer. If I wanted to cover their costs, I
    could always divert my landline to my mobile, but of course I wouldn't.
    The current system suits me very well- I certainly prefer it to the US
    system, and I used to live there.

    --
    David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
    usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk



  10. #160
    John R. Levine
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    >> The US has a much lower population density than the UK, yet lower mobile
    >> charges overall.

    >
    >Define overall. I'm very happy with what I get for my 15 quid a month,
    >and I can't offhand think of any plan I'd rather have- other than it
    >being free. I'm happy to pay 10p a minute to call a UK mobile- even
    >happier with the 6p I currently pay (for a limited time.)


    Well, let's see. That's about USD 27. For $29/mo (plus tax) I get
    250 daytime minutes and several thousand weekend minutes. For low use
    I could pay $19/mo for 50 minutes. These all include nationwide
    roaming and long distance, i.e., I can call anywhere in the US from
    Alaska and Hawaii to Maine and Puerto Rico, and I can use my phone
    anywhere in the US, even on other carrier's networks in areas where
    mine (Cingular) doesn't have coverage.





  11. #161
    Steven M. Scharf
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?


    "Miguel Cruz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco

    <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Miguel Cruz <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >> The contorted arguments in defense of this state of affairs remind me

    of
    > >> a thread in rec.travel.europe a few years ago where a bunch of

    Europeans
    > >> yelled themselves hoarse in defense of paying per minute for local

    calls.
    > >> As far as I could tell, the fundamental argument was, "okay, fine, we
    > >> give buckets more money to the phone company than they do for the same
    > >> service, but we're used to it and they are stupid Americans, so our
    > >> system is better."

    > >
    > > I don't remember that thread.


    Actually you can still purchase metered local phone service in the U.S..
    Pacific Bell still offers it. It's about $5 cheaper per month than umetered.
    You pay for every call, including toll free calls. However it would still
    probably be the best deal for many people, because so many calls are
    intra-LATA, and are paid for seperately anyway.





  12. #162
    Steven M. Scharf
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    "Andy Pandy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    > The US has a much lower population density than the UK, yet lower mobile

    charges
    > overall. Termination charges charged by UK mobile operators are a rip-off,

    pure
    > and simple.


    Yes, this is what the studies have concluded. And the termination charges
    now, have come down from several years ago, but are still very high.

    The key to the operators being able to get away with this, is making sure
    that enough of the populace never looks at the big picture. They convince
    them that 'incoming calls are free,' even though that this is untrue.
    Externalizing the cost so it doesn't appear on the mobile phone owners bill,
    but is instead distributed among all the people that call the mobile, makes
    it appear insignificant.

    > I think a simple way to end this rip-off while retaining the caller pays

    system,
    > would be if OFCOM banned T&C's which restrict who can buy mobile tariffs

    and
    > what they can use them for. If a mobile tariff is available to the public,

    then
    > anyone should be able to buy it, including other telcos.
    >
    > Then you'd get discount telcos like 1899 buying banks of mobiles on

    top-end
    > contracts, and using them to route calls to mobiles and being able to

    offer very
    > cheap rates. BT could even do it. Termination revenues would then plummet

    and
    > the mobile operators would be forced into a more honest pricing policy.

    And
    > prices would be cheaper overall.


    What makes you think that OFCOM is looking out for the interests of
    consumers?





  13. #163
    Andy Pandy
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?


    "chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:1gx86nx.4ni1j210gtk4xN%[email protected]
    > > But you only have a choice of UK plans. Your combination of Orange ED50 plus
    > > 1899 is a good deal *for the UK* but I'd wager it could be beaten in the US
    > > (factoring in of course the premiums paid by your callers).

    >
    > Which plan beats it then, for my uses.


    If I knew I'd have posted it. Haven't got a clue about specific US tariffs. I
    posted the details hoping someone from the US would tell us.

    Some UK corporate deals are very good - I've got a company mobile which costs my
    company 4 a month, and call rates are 3-5ppm, cross network 15-20ppm. I have
    never got anywhere near to spending 11 a month on calls. Last month I made 30
    calls and it came to less than 1.

    > > You're plan is - let's see if this is right - 15 a month, inclusive 50
    > > minutes offpeak a day to landlines and Orange mobiles (perhaps 25% of UK
    > > mobiles).

    >
    > And calls to practically all the landlines I'm likely to call abroad.


    Yes, because you're not paying mobile termination premiums.

    > > To call other mobiles you pay 3p + 10ppm during the week, 2ppm at
    > > > > 10ppm is a rip-off. I can call someone in Sydney for a tenth of that

    price
    > > (1ppm with Telediscount to Australia).

    >
    > I can call someone in Australia using inclusive minutes, but I won't be
    > able to call a mobile in Sydney for that- nor will you- so make sure
    > you've got your comparisons straight.


    I have! I'm comparing the cost of calling *landlines* with calling mobiles (in
    the UK and other countries where it is free to receive). My point was that the
    premium to call a mobile (both here and to other countries where it is free to
    receive) is massive and 10 times the cost of sending the call to a landline on
    the other side of the world.

    > > You might be happy paying 3 for a half hour chat, but I'm not.

    >
    > I don't chat for half an hour when I'm calling someone's mobile. Most of
    > the calls I do make to mobiles are relatively short- and it's not
    > something that bothers me. The caller pays system has distinct
    > advantages for me as the consumer.


    I'm in favour of it too but without rip-off termination charges. It should cost
    about the same to call a mobile from a landline as it does to call a landline
    from a mobile - exactly the same resources are being used in both cases.

    > If I wanted to cover their costs, I
    > could always divert my landline to my mobile, but of course I wouldn't.
    > The current system suits me very well- I certainly prefer it to the US
    > system, and I used to live there.


    I think it is possible to get lower charges while retaining caller pays - as I
    described.

    --
    Andy





  14. #164
    chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    John R. Levine <[email protected]> wrote:

    > >> The US has a much lower population density than the UK, yet lower mobile
    > >> charges overall.

    > >
    > >Define overall. I'm very happy with what I get for my 15 quid a month,
    > >and I can't offhand think of any plan I'd rather have- other than it
    > >being free. I'm happy to pay 10p a minute to call a UK mobile- even
    > >happier with the 6p I currently pay (for a limited time.)

    >
    > Well, let's see. That's about USD 27. For $29/mo (plus tax) I get
    > 250 daytime minutes and several thousand weekend minutes.


    That doesn't strike me as a very good deal, based on my usage pattern-
    remember, during the day, I'm charged 3p per landline call- it's then
    untimed after that. How much does an an out of bundle daytime minute
    cost?

    --
    David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
    usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk



  15. #165
    Andy Pandy
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?


    "chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:1gx8935.1cxyejr1x64cjyN%[email protected]
    > > >> The US has a much lower population density than the UK, yet lower mobile
    > > >> charges overall.
    > > >
    > > >Define overall. I'm very happy with what I get for my 15 quid a month,
    > > >and I can't offhand think of any plan I'd rather have- other than it
    > > >being free. I'm happy to pay 10p a minute to call a UK mobile- even
    > > >happier with the 6p I currently pay (for a limited time.)

    > >
    > > Well, let's see. That's about USD 27. For $29/mo (plus tax) I get
    > > 250 daytime minutes and several thousand weekend minutes.

    >
    > That doesn't strike me as a very good deal, based on my usage pattern-
    > remember, during the day, I'm charged 3p per landline call-


    Yes, and 10p per minute for calls to most mobiles. And you forget to mention
    that's not part of your mobile deal, that is using a separate discount telco,
    and probably the best value one in the UK. I'm sure similar things are available
    in the US, eg calling cards etc.

    > it's then
    > untimed after that. How much does an an out of bundle daytime minute
    > cost?


    Based on the cheapest calling card/indirect access telco rates?

    --
    Andy





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