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  1. #211
    CT
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Mark wrote:
    > Hi, I live in the UK and my girlfriend is going to america as part of an
    > exchange programme for the summer.
    >
    > Does the cheapest/easiest way for us to keep in contact simply involve
    > her buying any old USA pay as you go mobile phone and then me calling
    > her via a voice over ip service? Can anyone recommend a decent one with
    > not too much lag? Or is there a better method than this, ie: is it
    > cheaper to register with one of those calling card companies in the UK
    > and call using their number? This'd be great if I could use a UK mobile
    > phone to call her and not pay through the roof?
    >
    > Thanks for your help!
    >
    > Mark.


    Mark,

    You've had many good suggestions. Just another idea, if you both have
    internet connections (and there are many hotspots and other options in
    US). CamTrek, www.camtrek.com, has monthly or quarterly subscription
    options if you only desire short-time use. Just a thought...video adds
    something special. Go see for yourself.

    All the best,
    CT




    See More: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?




  2. #212
    chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Miguel Cruz <[email protected]> wrote:

    > chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco

    <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Steven M. Scharf <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >> The UK averages about 2x the U.S. cost for peak calls.

    > >
    > > What is the average cost for a peak call then? My average cost for a
    > > peak call is less than one US cent a minute.

    >
    > To an arbitrary mobile phone? Really? In that case you win.


    I didn't realise this was a competition. I've pointed out before, I
    don't call mobile numbers that often. It's about showing that 'average
    call' is pretty meaningless, and depends on the user's calling pattern.

    --
    David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
    usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk



  3. #213
    Phil Thompson
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    On Sat, 28 May 2005 12:52:23 +0100, "Andy Pandy"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >And to mobiles from other mobile operators. The UK Virgin tariff you quoted
    >won't include calls to Vodafones/Orange etc. These will be much more expensive.


    indeed, 35p/min. My Orange phone doesn't differentiate as its an "any
    network" tariff (though I probably would get more inclusive minutes if
    it wasn't).

    Phil
    --
    spamcop.net address commissioned 18/06/04
    Come on down !



  4. #214
    Ivor Jones
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Phil Thompson wrote:
    > On Sat, 28 May 2005 12:52:23 +0100, "Andy Pandy"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> And to mobiles from other mobile operators. The UK Virgin tariff
    >> you quoted won't include calls to Vodafones/Orange etc. These will
    >> be much more expensive.

    >
    > indeed, 35p/min. My Orange phone doesn't differentiate as its an
    > "any network" tariff (though I probably would get more inclusive
    > minutes if it wasn't).


    If it's a "Your Plan" tariff you get 50% extra minutes for Orange to
    Orange or to landlines if you opt not to have inclusive cross-net.

    Ivor





  5. #215
    Steven M. Scharf
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?


    "chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:1gxaaeq.nopohw1u7wfw6N%[email protected]
    > Steven M. Scharf <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > "chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
    > > <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:1gx9rn0.j7xdr86ktcn1N%[email protected]
    > > > Andy Pandy <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > []
    > > > > I would not mind at all if the premium to call a UK mobile was
    > > > > approximately the same as the typical US mobile incoming call

    charge.
    > > But
    > > > > it isn't.
    > > >
    > > > You would need to find the average price for both- given how wide the
    > > > variation can be in calling plans and patterns, no easy task I

    imagine.
    > >
    > > Quite easy, given that there has been extensive study on the issue.

    >
    > What study is that, and given the rapidity with which calling plans
    > change, how current would it be?


    See the third paragraph on page 30 of
    http://www.econ.cam.ac.uk/dae/repec/...f/cwpe0426.pdf).

    It is a 2003 study. The UK was almost 2x the cost of the U.S.





  6. #216
    chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Steven M. Scharf <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
    > <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:1gxaaeq.nopohw1u7wfw6N%[email protected]

    []
    > > What study is that, and given the rapidity with which calling plans
    > > change, how current would it be?

    >
    > See the third paragraph on page 30 of
    > http://www.econ.cam.ac.uk/dae/repec/...f/cwpe0426.pdf).
    >
    > It is a 2003 study. The UK was almost 2x the cost of the U.S.


    Unfortunately, the statistic given is referencing _another_ publication
    (albeit a 2004 one). I don't have a clue how the figure was arrived at,
    and I think I'd want to now more about how it was determined. There are
    so many different variables, from things like phone subsidy (which I'm
    not a big fan of) to whether or not the provider charges extra for
    itemised billing. Unless I knew how those things were controlled for (if
    at all) I'd treat it suspiciously.

    --
    David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
    usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk



  7. #217
    Osmo R
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Miguel Cruz wrote:
    > chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> The caller-pays advantage is quite simple IMO. Beautifully simple
    >> in fact. If someone wants to call me on my mobile, they have to pay
    >> to do so, the same way they have to pay when they call my landline.
    >>

    >
    >
    > The caller-pays disadvantage is quite simple IMO. Beautifully simple
    > in fact. Consumers pay more for phone calls.


    Not necessarily. In Finland one can get calls at 6.9 cents a minute and
    66 cent monthly base fee. Alternatively one can get 500 minutes at 17,80
    euros (9.9 cents/minute for extra calls). These include calls land lines
    and all mobiles regardless of operator. One should note that the
    termination fees operators charge from others are way higher than these
    so they actually lose money on calls to other networks. They get it on
    intra-netword, landline calls and received calls from other networks.

    >> I don't want to pay to receive a call.

    >
    >
    > And I don't want to make my friends pay 5 times as much to call me.


    As I said it is 6.9 cents a minute to any phone. Ah I see, yuo assume
    the friends have land lines. Here people do not in general have land
    lines anymore. Why would they have them?

    Osmo



  8. #218
    Osmo R
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Ivor Jones wrote:
    The reasons
    > for them using callee pays is largely due to the argument that the
    > caller should not pay a premium due to the callee deciding they want
    > to be reachable while mobile. You want to go mobile, *you* pay the
    > cost of doing so..! Sounds reasonable to me.
    >


    That assumes that land lines are the norm and being mobile is special.
    Maybe that is and will remain the case with RPP. In Finland mobile calls
    are the norm. One typically pays the same regardless of the type of the
    phone the receiver has.

    There are some problems here regarding the pricing in Finland. Land line
    to mobile calls have been very costly. A four minule mobile-landline
    call could be 28 cents when reversed was 1,13 euros. But why would you
    use the landline and not your mobile anyway? This has been partially
    fixed so that one can choose the operator used to carry the call (with a
    prefix or deal) so that now one can get it at about half the above.
    Another problem is so called corporate numbers. These are cheap when
    called from a land line (about the cost of a local call) but about 30
    cents a minute when called from a mobile regardless of your operator.
    The phone companies advertise these numbers as cheap to callers so the
    companies and government agencies using them do not necessarily even
    know the high price the mobile callers pay to call them. (The companies
    do not get any of the money. It is divided by the operators). Lately the
    high prices have become better known and this could lead to lowered
    prices as it is bad publicity for the companies using them.

    Osmo



  9. #219
    Osmo R
    Guest

    Re: mobile network design, was Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    John R. Levine wrote:

    >
    > As the paper cited earlier in this argument noted, since the mobile
    > customer pays all of the mobile charges here, the customer cares what
    > the cost is. As a result, the actual average cost per minute of
    > mobile service, counting subscription fees and all per call
    > charges,is much lower in the US than it is in Europe, about 10
    > cents/min here vs about twice that in Europe.


    What? In Finland if you call 100 minutes you pay as low as 7,56 cents a
    minute. With 1000 minutes it is as low as 3,58 cents a minute. That's to
    land lines or to any mobiles and at any time. We typically do not have
    cheaper calls on nights and weekends. Those are typical in countries
    where mobiles are still associated into business use and in off hours
    there is more free capacity. The network operators charge same
    regardless of the time so if cheaper calls on evenings are provided it
    is for the service operator to pay the difference and hope one gets it
    back on the more expensive daytime calls.

    So could you give what someone making 100 minutes of calls would pay in
    the U.S.? More than 7,56 a month?

    >
    > There are two other reasons that the US went with mobile customer
    > pays. One is that US phone users expect local calls to be free or
    > close to it.


    You mean free with no monthly fee? That's a good deal. In Finland we are
    talking about 10 cents a call + 1 cent a minute. The monthly fee is
    around 10 euros.

    > In many areas of the country, even if a number is in the same area
    > code, you dial 1+area code+number if it's a six cent toll call, just
    > so you shouldn't make a toll call by mistake. We've had a bunch of
    > attempts at caller-pays, all of which vanished without a trace as the
    > people who thought that they were so important that their friends and
    > business contacts would pay extra to call them turned out to be
    > mistaken.


    In general it is hard to mix the systems. One had to choose either one
    for a country.

    > A positive result of the combined numbering is that the US mobile and
    > landline networks are much more integrated than the European ones
    > are. We can port phone numbers not just from one mobile carrier to
    > another, but from mobile to landline and back, with landline also
    > including VoIP. If I decide that I like my mobile and I want to dump
    > my landline, I can port my landline number so that callers don't even
    > know that I've switched and I don't have to give out a new number.
    > Is that ever going to happen in Europe? Unlikely.


    In Finland one operator tried such a scheme but the land line operators
    refused to give the numbers to the mobile operator as the law did not
    force them to do so. Well it was not a true porting but one got two
    numbers, the old land line and a mobile number. One could receive calls
    through either (at predictable costs to the caller) but the receiver saw
    only the mobile number. (so basically it was an call forward done by the
    operator at no cost to you)

    Also we used to have so called city phones with land line numbers. They
    could only be used locally in the particular city. They have since been
    discontinued. (At least in Helsinki). Those had a problem of very
    expensive calls to mobile phones.

    Osmo



  10. #220
    John R. Levine
    Guest

    Re: mobile network design, was Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    >> mobile service, counting subscription fees and all per call
    >> charges,is much lower in the US than it is in Europe, about 10
    >> cents/min here vs about twice that in Europe.

    >
    >What? In Finland if you call 100 minutes you pay as low as 7,56 cents a
    >minute. ...


    We're talking about the real price, counting inbound as well as outbound
    calls and line rental. Looking at the price difference for me to call
    a Finnish landline and a Finnish mobile, it looks like callers are
    charged about 15 cpm for calls to mobiles.

    > With 1000 minutes it is as low as 3,58 cents a minute.


    Whoopee. I pay $30/mo for a bundle of 3750 minutes. That's 0.8 cpm
    if I used them all.

    >> There are two other reasons that the US went with mobile customer
    >> pays. One is that US phone users expect local calls to be free or
    >> close to it.

    >
    >You mean free with no monthly fee?


    Landline phones all have a monthly fee, but the local calls are free.
    People talk for hours.

    >Also we used to have so called city phones with land line numbers. They
    >could only be used locally in the particular city. They have since been
    >discontinued. (At least in Helsinki). Those had a problem of very
    >expensive calls to mobile phones.


    See what I mean?

    R's,
    John



  11. #221
    Miguel Cruz
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Osmo R <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Miguel Cruz wrote:
    >> The caller-pays disadvantage is quite simple IMO. Beautifully simple
    >> in fact. Consumers pay more for phone calls.

    >
    > Not necessarily. In Finland one can get calls at 6.9 cents a minute and
    > 66 cent monthly base fee.


    66 cent or 66 euro?

    > Alternatively one can get 500 minutes at 17,80 euros (9.9 cents/minute for
    > extra calls). These include calls land lines and all mobiles regardless of
    > operator. One should note that the termination fees operators charge from
    > others are way higher than these so they actually lose money on calls to
    > other networks. They get it on intra-netword, landline calls and received
    > calls from other networks.


    The question of "consumers pay more for phone calls" is not answered by
    quoting the cheapest special deal available. It requires looking at the
    plans that people actually use, and taking into account all calls including
    those from landlines and those from outside the country, and blending in all
    those charges.

    >> And I don't want to make my friends pay 5 times as much to call me.

    >
    > As I said it is 6.9 cents a minute to any phone. Ah I see, yuo assume
    > the friends have land lines. Here people do not in general have land
    > lines anymore. Why would they have them?


    So they can make unlimited free calls to mobiles and landlines?

    miguel
    --
    Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
    Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan



  12. #222
    Osmo R
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Miguel Cruz wrote:
    > Osmo R <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> Miguel Cruz wrote:
    >>
    >>> The caller-pays disadvantage is quite simple IMO. Beautifully
    >>> simple in fact. Consumers pay more for phone calls.

    >>
    >> Not necessarily. In Finland one can get calls at 6.9 cents a minute
    >> and 66 cent monthly base fee.

    >
    >
    > 66 cent or 66 euro?


    66 cents of course! Why 66? It was originally 69 but price competition
    reduced it fitsdt to 68 and then to 66? Three cents a month makes a
    difference :-)


    >
    >
    >> Alternatively one can get 500 minutes at 17,80 euros (9.9
    >> cents/minute for extra calls). These include calls land lines and
    >> all mobiles regardless of operator. One should note that the
    >> termination fees operators charge from others are way higher than
    >> these so they actually lose money on calls to other networks. They
    >> get it on intra-netword, landline calls and received calls from
    >> other networks.

    >
    >
    > The question of "consumers pay more for phone calls" is not answered
    > by quoting the cheapest special deal available. It requires looking
    > at the plans that people actually use, and taking into account all
    > calls including those from landlines and those from outside the
    > country, and blending in all those charges.


    Well even the more expensive ones are under ten cents a minute with just
    a few euros base fee. For example Sonera One: 8.9 cents a minute and
    3.99 euros a month and Elisa Reilu: 8.5 cents a minute and 3.95 euros a
    month. These are the two largest operators here. The prices have dropped
    significantly since the number portability. Before it the cost to call
    was about 16-17 cents a minute.

    >>> And I don't want to make my friends pay 5 times as much to call
    >>> me.

    >>
    >> As I said it is 6.9 cents a minute to any phone. Ah I see, yuo
    >> assume the friends have land lines. Here people do not in general
    >> have land lines anymore. Why would they have them?

    >
    >
    > So they can make unlimited free calls to mobiles and landlines?


    Here one could not make then with a land line and I doubt they can do it
    in the U.S. either if one considers the base fee also. Average land line
    user makes 100 five minute local calls a month. This costs about 30
    euros a month. When one can get a 500 minute package at 17.80 it makes
    little sense to use the land line. A significant reason for not getting
    the land line is the opening cost of about 100 euros and the additional
    costs and trouble when moving.

    If one wants to call a specific person and speak long one can get good
    mobile deals for it like 1500 minutes at 8.90 or 2.95 month and 2 cents
    a minute. There used to be unlimited mobile deals with cheapest being
    8.33 a month to a single number but they are not offered anymore (those
    who got them can use them still).

    Osmo



  13. #223
    Andy Pandy
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?


    "Osmo R" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:Nl8me.515$Z%[email protected]
    > > And I don't want to make my friends pay 5 times as much to call me.

    >
    > As I said it is 6.9 cents a minute to any phone. Ah I see, yuo assume
    > the friends have land lines. Here people do not in general have land
    > lines anymore. Why would they have them?


    I have a landline because:

    a) I can't get broadband on a mobile.

    b) I can make unlimited off-peak calls for free to UK landlines.

    c) I can make calls to anywhere in the "first world" (ie Western Europe, North
    America, Australasia and other places) for far less than 6.9 cents per minute -
    except to mobiles in countries where it is free to receive.

    d) Family and friends can call me much more cheaply on my landline than my
    mobile.

    e) I'm not spending large amounts of time with an RF transmitter a few cm from
    my brian.

    --
    Andy





  14. #224
    Osmo R
    Guest

    Re: mobile network design, was Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    John R. Levine wrote:
    >>> mobile service, counting subscription fees and all per call
    >>> charges,is much lower in the US than it is in Europe, about 10
    >>> cents/min here vs about twice that in Europe.

    >>
    >> What? In Finland if you call 100 minutes you pay as low as 7,56
    >> cents a minute. ...

    >
    >
    > We're talking about the real price, counting inbound as well as
    > outbound calls and line rental. Looking at the price difference for
    > me to call a Finnish landline and a Finnish mobile, it looks like
    > callers are charged about 15 cpm for calls to mobiles.


    No they are charged 6.9-8.9 cents a minute. Finnish callers use mobiles
    to call mobiles. If one wantrs to call from a land line then typical
    cost is about 17 cents a minute on evenings and wekends and about 27
    cents on day time. In addition there is about 10 cents a call.

    >
    >> With 1000 minutes it is as low as 3,58 cents a minute.

    >
    >
    > Whoopee. I pay $30/mo for a bundle of 3750 minutes. That's 0.8 cpm
    > if I used them all.


    If you use when all. Do you?


    >>> There are two other reasons that the US went with mobile customer
    >>> pays. One is that US phone users expect local calls to be free
    >>> or close to it.

    >>
    >> You mean free with no monthly fee?

    >
    >
    > Landline phones all have a monthly fee, but the local calls are free.
    >

    Well to me that is oxymoron if there is a fee it is not free. At leasst
    it would be illegal here to advertise so. It is clerer to say that they
    are included in the base fee.

    > People talk for hours.


    Here they seldom do and it they do there are deals for it.

    >
    >
    >> Also we used to have so called city phones with land line numbers.
    >> They could only be used locally in the particular city. They have
    >> since been discontinued. (At least in Helsinki). Those had a
    >> problem of very expensive calls to mobile phones.

    >
    >
    > See what I mean?


    For that very reason those were not very popular and they have been
    discontinued. Mobile to mobile calls are cheap.

    Osmo



  15. #225
    Osmo R
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Steven M. Scharf wrote:

    >
    > With the U.S. system, the person who wants the convenience of a
    > mobile phone is responsible for the charges.


    This whole idea is based on the assumption that mobile phones are
    special. They are not so in Finland. They are the norm.

    > The owner of the mobile phone can choose whether or not to answer
    > calls, and is hence in complete control.over their charges. Callers
    > are not reluctant to call a cell phone because of extra charges that
    > they might incur.


    It costs same here to call any phone: land line or mobile. (remember
    what is the norm here). In anyway if the caller is reluctant then
    maybe his message is not that important anyway.

    Osmo



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