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  1. #256
    Steven M. Scharf
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?


    "Andy Pandy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    > So you keep saying. You also say you don't make many calls to mobiles - so

    you
    > don't get ripped off too much by high termination charges - which is the
    > problem. Outgoing calls from mobiles aren't the problem. It's a bit like

    arguing
    > petrol isn't expensive here and when the price is pointed out, saying "oh

    well I
    > don't drive much".


    Don't you understand that the world revolves around him?

    > Exactly. You dismiss a Cambridge University study by making assumptions

    about
    > what it may have not accounted for (itemised billing charges...please). If

    you
    > think it's flawed, find a study from a respected institution that supports

    your
    > view. There are plently of studies into mobile charges on the internet if

    you
    > google.


    Every study reaches the same conclusion. His dismissal is lame, and he will
    find irrelevant excuses for any study.





    See More: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?




  2. #257
    Ivor Jones
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Osmo R wrote:
    > Andy Pandy wrote:
    >
    >> The broadband connection goes down the physical landline wire. If I
    >> didn't have the landline I couldn't have broadband (cable is an
    >> option for some people here but not all streets have cable - mine
    >> doesn't).

    >
    > Sure the connection goes throuhg the physical wire but that's not
    > same as having a land line. I have ADSL for which I pay its fee. I
    > do not pay anything for any land line as I do no have one.


    Yes you do, you have the physical wires, that is a landline. You may not
    have a phone connected to it, but you have the wiring. Here in the UK you
    cannot have the wiring without a phone account and the accompanying
    monthly rental. BT (the major provider) just don't allow it. Cable TV
    companies do, but the areas covered by them are a lot less. Many people
    have no choice but to use BT, so they *have* to pay for a phone line.

    Ivor





  3. #258
    Ivor Jones
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Steven M. Scharf wrote:
    > "Andy Pandy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    >> The broadband connection goes down the physical landline wire. If
    >> I didn't have the landline I couldn't have broadband (cable is an
    >> option for some people here but not all streets have cable - mine
    >> doesn't).

    >
    > Some phone companies are now allowing you to have DSL without
    > landline phone service. The motivation is that people that don't
    > want a landline will find another source for high-speed internet if
    > forced to have a landline to get DSL.


    The problem here is that the only source of broadband other than a BT
    phone line is cable TV. You can have the cable with just broadband on it,
    no phone or TV, but there are large areas of the country that are not
    covered by cable, only BT. The users there have no choice - if you want
    broadband, you *have* to have a phone line, there is *no* "other source"
    to get broadband from. They have a captive market.

    Ivor





  4. #259
    Georg Schwarz
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Mark <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Does the cheapest/easiest way for us to keep in contact simply involve
    > her buying any old USA pay as you go mobile phone and then me calling
    > her via a voice over ip service?


    the US does not have special numbers for mobiles, so any service that
    can call US numbers should do.
    I am not sure whether the callee still has to pay per minute for
    incoming calls to a US mobile. Probably depends on the particular plan.


    --
    Georg Schwarz http://home.pages.de/~schwarz/
    [email protected] +49 178 8545053



  5. #260
    Georg Schwarz
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Joseph <[email protected]> wrote:


    > If she doesn't have US credit it's unlikely she can get a postpaid
    > monthly plan unless she ponies up several hundered dollars deposit (if
    > then even.)


    and they do not accept any non-US credit cards, do they?

    --
    Georg Schwarz http://home.pages.de/~schwarz/
    [email protected] +49 178 8545053



  6. #261
    Osmo R
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Ivor Jones wrote:
    > Osmo R wrote:
    >
    >> Andy Pandy wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> The broadband connection goes down the physical landline wire. If
    >>> I didn't have the landline I couldn't have broadband (cable is an
    >>> option for some people here but not all streets have cable -
    >>> mine doesn't).

    >>
    >> Sure the connection goes throuhg the physical wire but that's not
    >> same as having a land line. I have ADSL for which I pay its fee. I
    >> do not pay anything for any land line as I do no have one.

    >
    >
    > Yes you do, you have the physical wires, that is a landline. You may
    > not have a phone connected to it, but you have the wiring. Here in
    > the UK you cannot have the wiring without a phone account and the
    > accompanying monthly rental. BT (the major provider) just don't allow
    > it.


    Here the phone connection is separate from the line. I used to have a
    phone connection in it but I dropped it years ago. I then got ADSL on
    it. There is no need to have phone connection to have it. In fact any
    such requirement would be illegal as abuse of predominant market
    position. (couping ASDL or mobile connections with landline ones is a no
    no because of the local monopolies phone companies had for over a
    hundred years).

    If I hooked a phone in the socket, I'd get nothing. Not even a dial
    tone. Therefore I do not have landline in any meaningful sense related
    to phones. If I wanted it to work it would cost me 99 euros to open it
    and then at least 6 euros a month as fees.

    Does the BT actually rip the cables out if you close the connection?

    > Cable TV companies do, but the areas covered by them are a lot less.
    > Many people have no choice but to use BT, so they *have* to pay for a
    > phone line.


    Here cable is also an option. I first tried it then took ASDL from Elisa
    and got modem as bonus. I then closed it and got a cheaper connection.
    That is here known as milking.

    Osmo



  7. #262
    chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Osmo R <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Steven M. Scharf wrote:
    > > It's the carriers in Europe that don't want RPP, since their revenue
    > > would plunge as the price of mobile calls drops dramatically. They
    > > have succeeded in convincing people that "incoming calls are free,"
    > > isn't that just terrific?! In fact, the actual cost per call is far
    > > higher than under RPP.

    >
    > There is no need to convince that incoming calls are free. That is
    > assumed here. People have never paid for incoming calls. In fact people
    > complain when they have to pay for incoming calls when they roam.


    So far, the riiing SIM has worked fine for me. Especially, as a lot of
    my trips involve a short time in different countries, it's ideal for me-
    and frankly, it isn't going to cost much more (if at all) for most
    people to call me on a Lichtenstein mobile number than a UK one!

    --
    David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
    usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk



  8. #263
    chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Andy Pandy <[email protected]> wrote:

    > You dismiss a Cambridge University study by making assumptions about
    > what it may have not accounted for (itemised billing charges...please).


    The study you're referring to didn't make the comparison- it
    _referenced_ another that did. Unless I knew more about that one, why on
    earth should I believe it?

    > If you
    > think it's flawed,


    I don't know how it was measured.

    > find a study from a respected institution that supports your
    > view.


    I'm not interested in 'finding a study' to support anyone's view. I'm
    interested to know what the criterion used were.

    > There are plently of studies into mobile charges on the internet if you
    > google. If you're not prepared to find evidence to back up your argument,
    > and just nit pick others, then what's the point? I could point you at
    > three others that support the Cambridge study view, but why should I,
    > you'll just do the same with them as the Cambridge one.


    I'm prepared to look at any study, and I'll even believe it, providing I
    know what the parameters are. The study cited doesn't do that- and I
    can't find the article that it references.

    --
    David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
    usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk



  9. #264
    Osmo R
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Steven M. Scharf wrote:
    > "Osmo R" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    >
    >> ??? I do have ADSL but no land line phone. Are they somehow
    >> connected where yo live? (With land line I mean the phone
    >> connection, not the physical wire)

    >
    >
    > In the U.S., so-called "naked DSL" is just beginning to be offered,
    > and only a couple of phone companies are offering it. Similarly, the
    > largest cable television operator will not sell you just cable modem
    > service, you must take at least basic analog cable TV service. They
    > do this to try to force you to take more services than you want.


    Here the government made a clear decision that ADSL and GSM should be
    open to competition and separate from the old monopolies. So one can
    choose the ADSL operator. The local company then gets a rent for the
    line from the ADSL provider. As for cable I think you need to be hooked
    to the cable TV which means that you get all your TV from it. It costs
    nothing extra to the individual apartment owner (though one of course
    pays it as part of the monthly payment of pays that covers all the
    general expenses). One does not have to have pay-TV to get cable modem.
    As I have understood in the U.S. it is for the individual residents to
    decide to join or not join the cable. Here it is done at building basis.
    Individual residents can then choose whether to get pay-TV as extra.

    > We're just beginning to see cities allowing naked, whole-city, WiFi
    > service. The cable TV and telephone companies are fighting this like
    > crazy by trying to pass laws against any government funded wireless
    > service. The workaround is to use a company such as MetroFi to supply
    > the service; not free, but cheaper than the alternatives.


    Osmo



  10. #265
    chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Steven M. Scharf <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Andy Pandy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    > > So you keep saying. You also say you don't make many calls to mobiles - so

    > you
    > > don't get ripped off too much by high termination charges - which is the
    > > problem. Outgoing calls from mobiles aren't the problem. It's a bit like

    > arguing
    > > petrol isn't expensive here and when the price is pointed out, saying "oh

    > well I
    > > don't drive much".

    >
    > Don't you understand that the world revolves around him?


    Make all the cheap shots you want, but the fact is that most of the
    comparisons here are based on personal usage and needs (e.g. "I don''t
    want my friends to have to pay so much to call me"), so yes, as far as
    mobile phone pricing goes, it very much does revolve around the user.

    []
    > Every study reaches the same conclusion. His dismissal is lame, and he will
    > find irrelevant excuses for any study.


    You keep on referring to this study as somehow defining mobile phone
    costs, yet the comparison was in a footnote, and there are so many
    factors involved in determining that, I think it's pointless without
    knowing how the figure was arrived at. I'm perfectly prepared to accept
    the statistics if I had some how idea what they were based on- and based
    on over a decade living in the US, I'm also quite used to a lot of
    things being cheaper there, than in Europe. But, I haven't seen anything
    like that yet as far as this is concerned.

    --
    David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
    usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk



  11. #266
    Osmo R
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Steven M. Scharf wrote:
    > "chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
    > <[email protected]> wrote in
    >
    >
    >> If you want to frame that as a 'US vs. Europe' argument, then
    >> that's entirely your problem. It's certainly not my motivation.

    >
    >
    > I think that the core of the issue is that we in the U.S. cannot
    > figure out why people would be willing to pay 2x the cost for mobile
    > calls.


    That may apply to some people but not in general. The CPP model can also
    provide low rates as it evident from Finland. I consider it cheap that
    one can talk over 500 minutes for 20 euros a month or 135 minutes for 10
    euros.

    > If you look at the big picture, you understand that incoming calls
    > are NOT free, it's a lie that the European carriers have convinced
    > consumers is true. They depend on consumers not looking at the actual
    > total cost per call.


    I do not pay anything on incoming calls. Note also that the amount one
    pays is not the only issue. There is the issue of control. I have better
    control on the calls I make than the calls others make to me so I am
    willing to pay extra for those. Which I am not making IMO I pay nothing
    on calls up to 47 minutes a month.

    If the U.S. system is so much better why do so few people have mobiles
    in the U.S. and why do you still use pagers (here pagers have been
    discontinued years ago)

    Osmo



  12. #267
    Miguel Cruz
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Osmo R <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Miguel Cruz wrote:
    >> So they can make unlimited free calls to mobiles and landlines?

    >
    > Here one could not make then with a land line and I doubt they can do it
    > in the U.S. either if one considers the base fee also.


    You mean the line rental? Well, of course. No other fees though.

    > Average land line user makes 100 five minute local calls a month. This
    > costs about 30 euros a month.


    In the US I was paying about US$25/month (19 euro) for unlimited calls to
    local landlines and mobiles. As you can imagine, calling patterns in that
    environment are quite different - people stay on the phone for hours.

    I think we can assume from this that people would prefer to spend more time
    on the phone and find more value in doing so, but in the high-cost European
    telecoms market they cannot afford to.

    > When one can get a 500 minute package at 17.80 it makes little sense to
    > use the land line. A significant reason for not getting the land line is
    > the opening cost of about 100 euros and the additional costs and trouble
    > when moving.


    That startup cost is insanely high as well. 100 euros??

    So basically we have a situation where the mobile in Finland is somewhat the
    lesser of two evils.

    miguel
    --
    Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
    Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan



  13. #268
    Miguel Cruz
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Steven M. Scharf <[email protected]> wrote:
    > "Osmo R" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> ??? I do have ADSL but no land line phone. Are they somehow connected
    >> where yo live? (With land line I mean the phone connection, not the
    >> physical wire)

    >
    > In the U.S., so-called "naked DSL" is just beginning to be offered, and
    > only a couple of phone companies are offering it.


    I signed up for DSL on a line with no phone service in DC in 2000 and as far
    as I know it's still being used (through Covad on Verizon's wires).

    It makes good sense, since with people cancelling landlines, at least this
    way the ILEC can make some money (by renting the pair to the DSL provider).
    Otherwise the house might go to cable modem and mobile and leave the ILEC
    with no revenue at all.

    miguel
    --
    Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
    Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan




  14. #269
    Osmo R
    Guest

    Re: mobile network design, was Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Ototin wrote:

    >
    > When I dial a telephone number I don't know whether it is a mobile or
    > land line number. When people give me a telephone number I don't ask
    > if it is a mobile or not. I understand that the receiver pays and I
    > will have a conversation as long as me and the called party are
    > willing.


    So you could end up babbling nonsense at the expense of the receiver. He
    might be too polite to remind you of it. I think it is better that the
    one who makes the call pays. Here one always knows if a number is mobile
    or not. Such a system may suit better the U.S. and Canada with its
    numerous local companies. In Europe the CPP is IMO better though there
    are problems with international calls. It may not be easy to tell from a
    foreign number if it is mobile or not.

    Osmo



  15. #270
    Miguel Cruz
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Osmo R <[email protected]> wrote:
    > There is no need to convince that incoming calls are free. That is
    > assumed here. People have never paid for incoming calls. In fact people
    > complain when they have to pay for incoming calls when they roam. Please
    > do not project your views to us. Nobody would want to pay for receiving
    > calls here.


    They might if they knew it would result in the cost of their outgoing calls
    dropping to half or less.

    miguel
    --
    Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
    Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan



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