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  1. #316
    Jerome Zelinske
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Is that L-M call 17-29 cents per minute on top of the 12 cents per call
    on top of the 18 euros? My land line bill is $16 which is less than 16
    euros and I do not pay any cents per call or cents per minute to call
    either a land line or a wireless phone. The 17-29 is from over 5 to
    over 7 times the cost of the 3-4.



    See More: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?




  2. #317
    Andy Pandy
    Guest

    Re: mobile network design, was Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?


    "Steven M. Scharf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Maybe a UK person, can post what the total costs would be for a typical plan
    > as outlined below, including the termination charges, as I did for the most
    > expensive U.S. carrier:
    >
    > Verizon
    > Americas Choice UK Plan
    > 100 Peak Outgoing, In-Network Mobile to Mobile: 0
    > 100 Peak Incoming, In-Network Mobile to Mobile: 0
    > 100 Peak Outoging, Mobile to Landline: $10
    > 100 Peak Incoming, Landline to Mobile: $10
    > 100 Peak Outoging, Mobile to Out-of-Network Mobile $20
    > 100 Peak Incoming, Out-of-Network Mobile to Mobile $20
    > 100 Off-Peak Outgoing, Mobile to Landline 0
    > 100 Off-Peak Incoming, Landline to Mobile 0
    > 100 Off-Peak Outgoing, In-Network Mobile to Mobile 0
    > 100 Off-Peak Incoming, In-Network Mobile to Mobile 0
    > 1000 minutes
    > $60
    > Average Price Per Minute $0.06
    >
    > The monthly plan is $40, and I added $20 for the cost to the calling party
    > to/from an out-of-network mobile phone, at $0.10 per minute, since we are
    > trying to find the total cost.
    >
    > I tried doing this for a UK plan, and came up with 105.00, using the OFCOM
    > termination fee limit, but I'm sure that this is too high.


    It'll depend so much on what plan the incoming caller uses. Also it is possible
    to be a "phone tart" and get a very cheap contract and phone, by switching
    contracts every year. The networks are so desperate to sign people up that they
    offer retailers big bonuses for every new customer, which some retailers use to
    offer cashback to the customer.

    I'll have a go using Orange ED50 plus 1899, the best value indirect access
    telco. I need to guess the average call length, say 5 minutes (so 100 mins is 20
    calls). Also off-peak is different between weekdays and weekends - so I will
    assume half and half.

    100 Peak Outgoing, In-Network Mobile to Mobile: 10.60 [1]
    100 Peak Incoming, In-Network Mobile to Mobile: 10.60 (charged to
    caller)
    100 Peak Outoging, Mobile to Landline: 0.60
    100 Peak Incoming, Landline to Mobile: 10.60 (charged
    to caller)
    100 Peak Outoging, Mobile to Out-of-Network Mobile 10.60
    100 Peak Incoming, Out-of-Network Mobile to Mobile 10.60 (charged to caller)
    100 Off-Peak Outgoing, Mobile to Landline 0
    100 Off-Peak Incoming, Landline to Mobile 6.60 (charged to
    caller)
    100 Off-Peak Outgoing, In-Network Mobile to Mobile 0
    100 Off-Peak Incoming, In-Network Mobile to Mobile 0
    1000 minutes
    Plus 15 per month for the ED50 contract.

    75.2
    Average Price Per Minute 7.52ppm

    [1] 1899 price. Not sure if Orange to Orange peak calls are cheaper than 10ppm
    on ED50.

    --
    Andy





  3. #318
    Andy Pandy
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?


    "Osmo R" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > >>> My point is that you wonder why people have landlines when you
    > >>> can make calls for 6.9c per minute on your mobile.
    > >>>
    > >>> I make the vast majority of my phone calls for much cheaper rates
    > >>> than 6.9c per minute (even when you factor in the monthly line
    > >>> rental), by virtue of having a landline and my contacts having
    > >>> landlines.
    > >>
    > >> You then make plenty of calls.

    > >
    > >
    > > Not really. Usually about 600 mins a month.

    >
    > Here 600 minutes from a landline costs 18 euros + 12 cents/call.


    It costs me typically 13 a month including line rental.

    Typically 600 minutes of calls mobile-mobile would cost around 50 in the UK.

    > > The other point, here in the UK, is that if you don't have a landline
    > > then you are forcing most of your callers to pay much much more to
    > > call you, typically 10 times the cost. You may have reasonable mobile
    > > termination rates in Finland, we don't here.

    >
    > The calls from landlines to mobiles are expensive here also. If one
    > views a five minute call then the charge _per minute_ is
    >
    > Mobile->anything ca. 7-9
    > Land->Mobile ca. 17-29
    > Local call: ca. 3-4
    > LD: ca. 5-9
    >
    > The longer the call the greater the difference between local and mobile
    > calls is. However, as most people use mobiles anyway that's not an issue.


    Cross network mobile-mobile calls are just as expensive as landline-mobile calls
    here.

    > > As I wrote earlier, a friend of mine saw his bill sky rocket when his
    > > wife's best friend decided to ditch her landline - their monthly bill
    > > which was usually a few pounds went up to over 50.

    >
    > Well the problem was with his wife, not with her friend. She should have
    > used her mobile. Ditching the landlibe avoids such problems.


    Yeah right. That would have meant they'd be paying about 60-70 a month for
    their phone usage, rather than about 15. Great idea.

    They know where the problem was. His wife's friend has now put her landline back
    in, and they are a bit wiser about calling mobiles.

    --
    Andy





  4. #319
    Osmo R
    Guest

    Re: mobile network design, was Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Miguel Cruz wrote:
    >
    > Yet you continue to make arguments based on the reasoning that people
    > in Finland don't talk on the phone very much, as if there's any
    > reason for this other than the fact that phone calls there are so
    > expensive.


    Of course the cost as something to do with the time people use to talk
    to phone but most people do not have any need to spend hours every day
    on a phone no matter how cheap it is. They have better things to do. The
    more people give up landlines the more they use mobile phones for just
    idle chatting and plans are developed for that.

    When one talks about cost one should not focus only on those who talk
    much. If one here wants just to receive calls it costs nothing besides
    the actual phone.

    Osmo



  5. #320
    Osmo R
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    DevilsPGD wrote:

    >
    > I carry both. My pager can do things that no phone on the market
    > today can even dream of doing:
    >
    > 1) Standby time measured in weeks or months. 2) Run from a battery
    > that I can pick up at any corner store for $2.


    Well not so important if one can get to places that have electricity
    for at least twice a week.

    > 3) Receive a signal virtually anywhere. That includes elevators,
    > underground (basements, subbasements, etc), parkades, train tunnels,
    > etc.


    Just how does that differ from mobile phones? Here such coverage is
    expected.

    > 4) Hardware cost under $50 without any contract/commitment/etc
    > (Important because if I break it, lose it, whatever else, I don't
    > care anywhere near as much as if I lose me $300 cell phone)


    Well same applies to mobiles here.

    Osmo



  6. #321
    Steven M. Scharf
    Guest

    Re: mobile network design, was Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    "Andy Pandy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "Steven M. Scharf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > Maybe a UK person, can post what the total costs would be for a typical

    plan
    > > as outlined below, including the termination charges, as I did for the

    most
    > > expensive U.S. carrier:


    <snip>

    That's about what the studies showed as well, about 2x the cost in Europe
    per call. CPP termination fees really drives up the price.





  7. #322
    Ivor Jones
    Guest

    Re: mobile network design, was Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?


    "Osmo R" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    [snip]

    > There are people who are too polite to hand up on a telemarketer so they
    > buy what he sells just to get rid of him. Hanging up is a big no no to
    > some people.


    That's their problem..!

    Ivor





  8. #323
    Jerome Zelinske
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Yes the call is not complete and the billing should not start until the
    recipient phone answers.
    But if that land line call is not converted by the wireless company to a
    radio-phone call and sent to the recipient phone, which is forwarding,
    then the call can not be completed.
    Yes you should not pay the cost of others to call you, but the cost of
    the others is only to reach your wireless company.
    You should pay the cost of your wireless company to send the call to
    you, because you are the one who chose to mobile.
    Yes land line customers do search out the optimal solution for them for
    regular local phone service and especially for long distance.
    People with credit bad enough that they can not get a post-pay home
    phone, can get a wireless phone here too, but just not with a post-pay
    plan. It has to be pre-pay. Which is not cheap, and a hassle to
    maintain. You can even get pre-pay home phones.
    Your description of Helsinki rates was a little confusing, but it is
    plain that you have little idea what your phone bill will be from month
    to month.
    I still do not see why you are so willing to pay for someone else's
    mobility.
    Several carriers here have a mobile to mobile option also, but the
    called party does not have to have that option for the caller to
    benefit. I don't see why he would have to. Also if someone on your
    carrier calls you, you get that benefit, even if the caller does not
    have that option themselves.
    How can you divide it when you do not know the number to divide it by.
    I don't think they are "special" either. It was you who introduced
    that term. They do have the specialness of enabling the user to be
    mobile, and the specialness of, at least over there, it costing a lot
    more to call them.
    Yup, it is the same principle. If satellite phones had cpp, then I
    would not pay extra to call a satellite phone, if there were land line
    phones they could be reached on.
    Everyone has one, are you sure?!
    They use their wireless phone to call land lines, even when using their
    own land line would be less expensive? Here it does not matter as the
    cost is the same.



  9. #324
    Miguel Cruz
    Guest

    Re: mobile network design, was Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Osmo R <[email protected]> wrote:
    > When one talks about cost one should not focus only on those who talk
    > much. If one here wants just to receive calls it costs nothing besides
    > the actual phone.


    And if you only count Christmas gifts, socks and aftershave are free.

    It is not productive in a discussion of the overall cost paid for phones in
    a given system, to fixate on exceptional cases such as people who only
    receive and never place calls. If everyone were like that, there would be no
    phone calls. Someone has to place them, and that someone is paying far more
    than they need to, due to an anti-competetive system.

    miguel
    --
    Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
    Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan



  10. #325
    Jerome Zelinske
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    I think it is wrong to charge someone for something that they are
    getting no benefit from and have no control over how much it is. And I
    refuse to call any number that will charge me like that. Not that I
    make any international calls anyway. But it upsets me that others are
    getting ripped off like that.



  11. #326
    Jerome Zelinske
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    And in most schools here, the only way a kid can have a phone at school
    is off and locked in his locker. Likewise at my work, I can not have my
    phone on me when punched in.



  12. #327
    Jerome Zelinske
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    And the way kids abuse and lose things, 55 euros or whatever that is in
    dollars, is more than many families have to waste. The school can call
    me just fine with their land line to either my land line or to my
    wireless at no extra charge. And if they send me a text message without
    trying to call me and leave voice mail, I will have a few words with them.



  13. #328
    Osmo R
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Joseph wrote:

    > But you keep arguing about it. You expect that North America is
    > going to change for you.


    That is simply not true. I expect no such thing. You can keep your
    system. Just do not try to push it here.

    Osmo



  14. #329
    Osmo R
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Jerome Zelinske wrote:
    > And the way kids abuse and lose things, 55 euros or whatever that is
    > in dollars, is more than many families have to waste.


    A mobile phone is not waste. Kids need mobile phones nowadays just as
    adults need them. Without one the child will be a lonely one as their
    friends cannot reach him.

    Osmo



  15. #330
    Steve Sobol
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Osmo R wrote:

    >> And the way kids abuse and lose things, 55 euros or whatever that is
    >> in dollars, is more than many families have to waste.

    >
    > A mobile phone is not waste. Kids need mobile phones nowadays just as
    > adults need them. Without one the child will be a lonely one as their
    > friends cannot reach him.


    There are valid reasons to give a child a phone (e.g. for emergencies).
    Being able to chat all the time is not a valid reason. My teenage daughter
    talks a lot on our landline already, although granted, she is pretty good
    about only using the time we allow her to use... If we got her a cell phone
    it would end up costing us a ton of money...

    And it *is* a waste if the kid ends up losing the phone.

    --
    JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638)
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / [email protected] / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED

    "The wisdom of a fool won't set you free"
    --New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle"



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