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  1. #121
    Steven M. Scharf
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?


    "Ivor Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > Thus spaketh Steven M. Scharf:

    >
    > [snip]
    >
    > >> I hope the U.S. never takes the backward step of making the caller
    > >> pay to call a mobile phone. It's a crazy idea. I can't believe that
    > >> people in Europe put up with having to pay to call someone on their
    > >> mobile phone.

    > >
    > > And I can't see why anyone would want to favour the USA system.

    >
    > I've explained it to you over and over until I'm blue in the face, you're
    > just not getting it..! Or maybe you don't want to get it.


    Duh, he fully understands the advantages of not forcing callers to pay extra
    depending on what type of phone they call. He is just being obstinate.





    See More: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?




  2. #122
    Steven M. Scharf
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?


    "Ivor Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "Andy Pandy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    > [snip]
    >
    > > The caller *is* charged a premium for calling 0845 and 0870 numbers on
    > > nearly
    > > all landline tariffs.
    > >
    > > As for 0800 numbers terminating on a mobile - how much does that cost?
    > > Massively
    > > more than the typical 10c/min US mobile users pay for incoming calls,
    > > I'd wager.

    >
    > Where do you get 10c/min..? My friends in the US get their calls taken
    > from their (large) bucket of inclusive minutes, they never pay over the
    > agreed line rental irrespective of the number of incoming or outgoing
    > calls they receive/make.


    On prepaid, the best plans charge 10 per minute. See
    http://prepaiduswireless.com . Also, if you divide the monthly cost of a
    postpaid plan, by the number of included peak minutes, it works out to
    around 10 per minute on the plans with the minimum number of included
    minutes..





  3. #123
    Steven M. Scharf
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?


    "Stuart Friedman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On most plans, you don't pay for voicemail deposits.


    Some prepaid plans charge for this, but most do not. Also, you can listen to
    your voicemail from a landline, and save your minutes.





  4. #124
    Steven M. Scharf
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?


    "Miguel Cruz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Stuart Friedman <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > The problem in my mind with caller pays is that it switches around the
    > > economic model. The caller is in a very difficult position to negotiate
    > > for a cheap termination rate with the mobile provider in exchange for
    > > guaranteeing the use of a largish block of minutes, e.g. I cannot call
    > > Voda and say that I plan on spending a thousand minutes a month calling
    > > Voda customers, what is the best rate you'll give me.
    > >
    > > As a result, the cost of terminating calls to mobiles is significantly
    > > higher than it should be. If the price of calling a mobile was only a

    few
    > > cents higher than calling a landline, caller pays would be great.

    >
    > You make an excellent point here. Overall, the total amount charged to all
    > people involved in a call (caller and receiver) is generally much higher

    in
    > Europe, and the fact that the people paying have almost no leverage in
    > Europe is surely a major contributor to this situation.


    This is a key point. If you look at http://stanaphone.com/ and compare costs
    to call the UK, it's 2.5 per minute to call a landline, and 28.10 to call
    a mobile phone. So the international caller is paying about 25 a minute
    extra to call a mobile phone.

    What is the cost to the caller in the UK, to call a mobile phone in the UK?

    Are there free nights and weekends for calls to mobile phones?





  5. #125
    {{{{{Welcome}}}}}
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Thus spaketh Joseph:
    > On Wed, 25 May 2005 04:11:04 +0100, "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> Thus spaketh Joseph:
    >>> On Tue, 24 May 2005 23:44:39 +0100, "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}"
    >>> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> And I can't see why anyone would want to favour the USA system.
    >>>
    >>> Well, that's *you*! You really are a broken record.
    >>>
    >>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    >>
    >> And you're a prick, but you probably can't change that.

    >
    > I'd say the same applies to you but I won't. I am not in
    > kindergarten.
    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


    Maybe I was a little harsh, it just annoys me sometimes when people don't
    realise we can have a difference of opinion and neither one of us is right or
    wrong, and you mention about a broken record, when you are just as much one.





  6. #126
    chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Steven M. Scharf <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Miguel Cruz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > Stuart Friedman <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > > The problem in my mind with caller pays is that it switches around the
    > > > economic model. The caller is in a very difficult position to negotiate
    > > > for a cheap termination rate with the mobile provider in exchange for
    > > > guaranteeing the use of a largish block of minutes, e.g. I cannot call
    > > > Voda and say that I plan on spending a thousand minutes a month calling
    > > > Voda customers, what is the best rate you'll give me.
    > > >
    > > > As a result, the cost of terminating calls to mobiles is significantly
    > > > higher than it should be. If the price of calling a mobile was only a

    > few
    > > > cents higher than calling a landline, caller pays would be great.

    > >
    > > You make an excellent point here. Overall, the total amount charged to all
    > > people involved in a call (caller and receiver) is generally much higher

    > in
    > > Europe, and the fact that the people paying have almost no leverage in
    > > Europe is surely a major contributor to this situation.

    >
    > This is a key point. If you look at http://stanaphone.com/ and compare costs
    > to call the UK, it's 2.5 per minute to call a landline, and 28.10 to call
    > a mobile phone. So the international caller is paying about 25 a minute
    > extra to call a mobile phone.
    >
    > What is the cost to the caller in the UK, to call a mobile phone in the UK?


    It will vary depending on the company you call, but many third party
    providers have set rates. The company I use charges 10p a minute anytime
    during the week- and 3p a minute at weekends, plus a 3p set up charge.
    It costs the same whether I make the call from a landline or from my
    mobile. I can call landlines from my mobile for a 3p set up charge-
    thereafter unlimited. Anytime. I call the US from my mobile for 1p a
    minute anytime- I have 1500 free minutes (offpeak and weekend) a month
    to call the US and many other countries. Simply put, there are
    advantages and disadvantages in both systems- I prefer the plan I have!

    > Are there free nights and weekends for calls to mobile phones?


    I don't know- I would doubt it. Plenty of mobile phone plans have free
    (or lots of) minutes for calling landlines (and mobiles on the same
    company) though.

    --
    David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
    usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk



  7. #127
    chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Miguel Cruz <[email protected]> wrote:

    []
    > The contorted arguments in defense of this state of affairs remind me of a
    > thread in rec.travel.europe a few years ago where a bunch of Europeans
    > yelled themselves hoarse in defense of paying per minute for local calls. As
    > far as I could tell, the fundamental argument was, "okay, fine, we give
    > buckets more money to the phone company than they do for the same service,
    > but we're used to it and they are stupid Americans, so our system is
    > better."


    I don't remember that thread.

    > Now someone figure out how Singapore manages to have caller-pays phones but
    > still keeps termination charges about the same as those for landlines.


    Given the population density and size of Singapore, it's apples and
    oranges.

    --
    David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
    usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk



  8. #128
    Andy Pandy
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?


    "Steven M. Scharf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > This is a key point. If you look at http://stanaphone.com/ and compare costs
    > to call the UK, it's 2.5 per minute to call a landline, and 28.10 to call
    > a mobile phone. So the international caller is paying about 25 a minute
    > extra to call a mobile phone.
    >
    > What is the cost to the caller in the UK, to call a mobile phone in the UK?


    It varies greatly depending on which mobile network, which landline provider,
    and the time of day.

    Peak rates are generally between 10-22p per min. Off peak and weekends are
    cheaper.

    I use TalkTalk for my landline, rates are here (they also show BT rates):

    http://www.talktalk.co.uk/talktalk/s...s?tariff=TALK1

    > Are there free nights and weekends for calls to mobile phones?


    Nope.

    --
    Andy





  9. #129
    Steven M. Scharf
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?


    "Steven M. Scharf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:wc1le.10251

    > This is a key point. If you look at http://stanaphone.com/ and compare

    costs
    > to call the UK, it's 2.5 per minute to call a landline, and 28.10 to

    call
    > a mobile phone. So the international caller is paying about 25 a minute
    > extra to call a mobile phone.
    >
    > What is the cost to the caller in the UK, to call a mobile phone in the

    UK?
    >
    > Are there free nights and weekends for calls to mobile phones?


    To follow-up on my own post, I found a 2004 research paper on the subject of
    CPP versus RPP:

    "There has been widespread concern at the level of mobile termination
    charges, leading to increasingly severe price controls. Oftel and the
    Competition Commission identified the Caller Pays Principle (CPP) as the
    source of the market power that enabled termination charges to be set above
    cost. Both accepted that the alternative Receiver Pays Principle (RPP) would
    solve the monopoly problem, but rejected it primarily because RPP might lead
    to significant numbers of users switching off their mobile phones. Evidence
    from RPP countries is consistent with RPP solving market power problems. CPP
    is almost certainly less efficient than RPP. US and other evidence suggests
    that the argument about customers switching off phones is not tenable. If
    the aim is efficient resource allocation, undistorted by excessive
    termination charges and subsidised handsets, to be achieved by competition
    rather than price controls, then RPP is preferable to CPP."

    See: http://www.econ.cam.ac.uk/dae/repec/...f/cwpe0426.pdf

    Look at page 30, where he cites the difference in the cost of average calls
    between the U.S. and Europe (I would quote it, but the author states "Not to
    be quoted without permission."

    It's the mobile network operators in Europe that don't want RPP! Their
    revenue would plunge, because mobile calls would cost a lot less. They've
    brainwashed people into believing that "incoming calls are free" when of
    course this is completely false. Someone is paying, and it's usually someone
    the receiving party knows, and overall, the cost is much higher.

    The RPP system is cheaper and more efficient. The receiving party does not
    have to pay for unwanted calls, they simply do not answer calls from numbers
    that they do not recognize.

    The key to converting Europe to RPP may lie in implementing FIMF (first
    incoming minute free), to eliminate the fear that some subscribers have
    about being charged for calls that they do not want to receive.





  10. #130
    Andy Pandy
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?


    "chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:1gx4nsk.hcdrpuz9pl7N%[email protected]
    > I have 1500 free minutes (offpeak and weekend) a month
    > to call the US and many other countries. Simply put, there are
    > advantages and disadvantages in both systems- I prefer the plan I have!


    Either you have a plan I'd be very interested in, or you have an interesting
    definition of the word "free". Are you sure you don't mean "inclusive"?

    --
    Andy





  11. #131
    chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Andy Pandy <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
    > <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:1gx4nsk.hcdrpuz9pl7N%[email protected]
    > > I have 1500 free minutes (offpeak and weekend) a month
    > > to call the US and many other countries. Simply put, there are
    > > advantages and disadvantages in both systems- I prefer the plan I have!

    >
    > Either you have a plan I'd be very interested in, or you have an interesting
    > definition of the word "free". Are you sure you don't mean "inclusive"?


    Oh, meant inclusive.

    I get confused sometimes, as most of the calls I make from my mobile, I
    don't pay the mobile company for. I see my contract as a 15 monthly
    commitment, which allows me similar (if not exactly the same) access to
    cheap calls as a landline would. The offpeak inclusive calls are an
    added bonus.

    --
    David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
    usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk



  12. #132
    chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Steven M. Scharf <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Ivor Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > > "Andy Pandy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > > [snip]
    > >
    > > > The caller *is* charged a premium for calling 0845 and 0870 numbers on
    > > > nearly
    > > > all landline tariffs.
    > > >
    > > > As for 0800 numbers terminating on a mobile - how much does that cost?
    > > > Massively
    > > > more than the typical 10c/min US mobile users pay for incoming calls,
    > > > I'd wager.

    > >
    > > Where do you get 10c/min..? My friends in the US get their calls taken
    > > from their (large) bucket of inclusive minutes, they never pay over the
    > > agreed line rental irrespective of the number of incoming or outgoing
    > > calls they receive/make.

    >
    > On prepaid, the best plans charge 10 per minute. See
    > http://prepaiduswireless.com .


    Which GSM prepaid plans charge 10 cents a minute? If it didn't need
    recharging withing 6 months, I'd get on in an instant!

    --
    David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
    usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk



  13. #133
    Steven M. Scharf
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    "chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
    <[email protected]> wrote in

    > > What is the cost to the caller in the UK, to call a mobile phone in the

    UK?
    >
    > It will vary depending on the company you call, but many third party
    > providers have set rates. The company I use charges 10p a minute anytime
    > during the week- and 3p a minute at weekends, plus a 3p set up charge.


    Thanks. This confirms what the researcher stated
    (http://www.econ.cam.ac.uk/dae/repec/...f/cwpe0426.pdf). The cost of
    mobile phone calls in Europe is much, much higher than in the U.S..

    It's the carriers in Europe that don't want RPP, since their revenue would
    plunge as the price of mobile calls drops dramatically. They have succeeded
    in convincing people that "incoming calls are free," isn't that just
    terrific?! In fact, the actual cost per call is far higher than under RPP.

    > I don't know- I would doubt it. Plenty of mobile phone plans have free
    > (or lots of) minutes for calling landlines (and mobiles on the same
    > company) though.


    So the best plan for use in Europe, is to try to always be sure that the
    mobile phone calls a landline, and to avoid calling a mobile phone whenever
    possible, due to the high termination charges, unless it's a mobile on the
    same network.

    Do they charge the sender to send a text message from a computer to a phone?





  14. #134
    chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

    Steven M. Scharf <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
    > <[email protected]> wrote in
    >
    > > > What is the cost to the caller in the UK, to call a mobile phone in the

    > UK?
    > >
    > > It will vary depending on the company you call, but many third party
    > > providers have set rates. The company I use charges 10p a minute anytime
    > > during the week- and 3p a minute at weekends, plus a 3p set up charge.

    >
    > Thanks. This confirms what the researcher stated
    > (http://www.econ.cam.ac.uk/dae/repec/...f/cwpe0426.pdf). The cost of
    > mobile phone calls in Europe is much, much higher than in the U.S..


    Of course it is. I'm surprised you needed confirmation of this. It
    doesn't bother me though.

    > It's the carriers in Europe that don't want RPP, since their revenue would
    > plunge as the price of mobile calls drops dramatically. They have succeeded
    > in convincing people that "incoming calls are free," isn't that just
    > terrific?! In fact, the actual cost per call is far higher than under RPP.


    No, the charges are quite transparent. I don't pay to receive a call. I
    pay 10p to call another mobile, 3p at weekends. I'm quite happy with
    that situation.

    > > I don't know- I would doubt it. Plenty of mobile phone plans have free
    > > (or lots of) minutes for calling landlines (and mobiles on the same
    > > company) though.

    >
    > So the best plan for use in Europe, is to try to always be sure that the
    > mobile phone calls a landline, and to avoid calling a mobile phone whenever
    > possible, due to the high termination charges, unless it's a mobile on the
    > same network.


    Depends on your plan. Again, not everyone has a problem with that.

    > Do they charge the sender to send a text message from a computer to a phone?


    Sometimes. Depends on the provider sending the text messages.

    --
    David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
    usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk



  15. #135
    Andy Pandy
    Guest

    Re: Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?


    "chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:1gx4ox4.1rikwrha8y6goN%[email protected]
    > > > I have 1500 free minutes (offpeak and weekend) a month
    > > > to call the US and many other countries. Simply put, there are
    > > > advantages and disadvantages in both systems- I prefer the plan I have!

    > >
    > > Either you have a plan I'd be very interested in, or you have an interesting
    > > definition of the word "free". Are you sure you don't mean "inclusive"?

    >
    > Oh, meant inclusive.
    >
    > I get confused sometimes, as most of the calls I make from my mobile, I
    > don't pay the mobile company for. I see my contract as a 15 monthly
    > commitment, which allows me similar (if not exactly the same) access to
    > cheap calls as a landline would. The offpeak inclusive calls are an
    > added bonus.


    Orange ED50?

    Shows your typical 30 per month contract up to be the rip-off it is.

    --
    Andy






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