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  1. #46
    John Richards
    Guest

    Re: Why You Still Can't Hear Me Now

    "Andrew White" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    > "Mij Adyaw" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>An external pull-out antenna also makes all of the difference in a marginal
    >>signal area. In a marginal signal area, the most common problem is that the
    >>phone cannot get it's signal to the cell site.

    >
    > Those things have gone the way of horse-drawn carriages. I don't think
    > there's a single GSM phone on the market today with an extendable
    > antenna...


    Which is more of a tribute to styling concerns than sound RF engineering.

    --
    John Richards



    See More: Why You Still Can't Hear Me Now




  2. #47
    John Richards
    Guest

    Re: Why You Still Can't Hear Me Now

    "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    >
    > Mij Adyaw <[email protected]> wrote in
    > message news:[email protected]
    >
    >> A pull-out antenna will improve the performance for analog, GSM, CDMA, TDMA,
    >> ... etc.

    >
    > Wrong. When you have an adequate
    > signal level, the pull out antenna is useless.


    If you happen to be close to a tower you don't need a good antenna.
    But suppose you are in a fringe area where signal strength with a
    collapsed antenna is too low. Then you pull out the antenna, and
    voila, now you have enough signal to make a call.

    --
    John Richards



  3. #48
    George Grapman
    Guest

    Re: Why You Still Can't Hear Me Now

    All you need to know about our resident welfare dolt.

    Claims that AT&T lost its monopoly long before the break up:


    --
    http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...e=source&hl=en


    Claims that it is a monopoly only if is has 100 percent of the market
    and tells me to "get a dictionary, stupid"


    http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...e=source&hl=en


    I post two law definitions of the word (remember, we are talking
    about a legal case):


    http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...e=source&hl=en


    Comes back with a common use definition even thought we are talking
    about anti-trust laws:

    http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...e=source&hl=en


    Mr.Welfare follows up with his usual erudite,fact filled replies:

    http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...e=source&hl=en

    http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...e=source&hl=en


    http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...e=source&hl=en


    And my favorite in the thread-claims that the federal government is
    "irrelevant" when it comes to determining monopolies:

    http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...e=source&hl=en









    To reply via e-mail please delete 1 c from paccbell



  4. #49
    Mij Adyaw
    Guest

    Re: Why You Still Can't Hear Me Now

    Agreed. It seems that many of us here are victims of the Rod Speed TROLL. I
    will add him to my kill-file.

    Regards,

    -mij
    ]
    "John Richards" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >>
    >> Mij Adyaw <[email protected]> wrote in
    >> message news:[email protected]
    >>
    >>> A pull-out antenna will improve the performance for analog, GSM, CDMA,
    >>> TDMA, ... etc.

    >>
    >> Wrong. When you have an adequate
    >> signal level, the pull out antenna is useless.

    >
    > If you happen to be close to a tower you don't need a good antenna.
    > But suppose you are in a fringe area where signal strength with a
    > collapsed antenna is too low. Then you pull out the antenna, and voila,
    > now you have enough signal to make a call.
    >
    > --
    > John Richards






  5. #50
    John Richards
    Guest

    Re: Why You Still Can't Hear Me Now

    "Joseph" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    > On Thu, 26 May 2005 16:24:50 -0700, "Mij Adyaw" <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Ok, assume that you are correct and that I have a GSM phone with a pull-out
    >>antenna. If I am very far from the nearest GSM cell site I will have a
    >>better chance of getting my signal to that remote cell site from a phone
    >>that has a pull-out antenna. Do you agree?

    >
    > No. If you knew anything about antenna design you'd see that just the
    > length of the antenna doesn't necessarily mean better reception and
    > the technology used has a big bearing on what works best for which
    > technology. You'll not find pull-out antennas for TDMA and GSM models
    > while you will with CDMA models.


    The antenna length should be approximately half a wavelength, which
    for 1900MHz works out to three inches. Exactly where that three inches is
    located makes a difference. If it's shaded by the circuit board, it won't
    work as well as when it is mostly clear of (extended away from) the
    circuit board.

    --
    John Richards



  6. #51
    Mij Adyaw
    Guest

    Re: Why You Still Can't Hear Me Now

    Very true.

    "John Richards" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > "Joseph" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]..
    >> On Thu, 26 May 2005 16:24:50 -0700, "Mij Adyaw" <[email protected]>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Ok, assume that you are correct and that I have a GSM phone with a
    >>>pull-out antenna. If I am very far from the nearest GSM cell site I will
    >>>have a better chance of getting my signal to that remote cell site from a
    >>>phone that has a pull-out antenna. Do you agree?

    >>
    >> No. If you knew anything about antenna design you'd see that just the
    >> length of the antenna doesn't necessarily mean better reception and
    >> the technology used has a big bearing on what works best for which
    >> technology. You'll not find pull-out antennas for TDMA and GSM models
    >> while you will with CDMA models.

    >
    > The antenna length should be approximately half a wavelength, which for
    > 1900MHz works out to three inches. Exactly where that three inches is
    > located makes a difference. If it's shaded by the circuit board, it won't
    > work as well as when it is mostly clear of (extended away from) the
    > circuit board.
    >
    > --
    > John Richards






  7. #52
    Rod Speed
    Guest

    Re: Why You Still Can't Hear Me Now


    John Richards <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Joseph <[email protected]> wrote
    >> Mij Adyaw <[email protected]> wrote


    >>> Ok, assume that you are correct and that I have a GSM phone with a pull-out
    >>> antenna. If I am very far from the nearest GSM cell site I will have a
    >>> better chance of getting my signal to that remote cell site from a phone
    >>> that has a pull-out antenna. Do you agree?


    >> No. If you knew anything about antenna design you'd see that just the length
    >> of the antenna doesn't necessarily mean better reception and the technology
    >> used has a big bearing on what works best for which technology. You'll not
    >> find pull-out antennas for TDMA and GSM models while you will with CDMA
    >> models.


    > The antenna length should be approximately half a wavelength,


    Not necessarily.

    > which for 1900MHz works out to three inches. Exactly where that three inches
    > is located makes a difference. If it's shaded by the circuit board, it won't
    > work as well as when it is mostly clear of (extended away from) the circuit
    > board.


    Irrelevant to the important difference between GSM and CDMA on that.





  8. #53
    Rod Speed
    Guest

    Re: Why You Still Can't Hear Me Now


    Mij Adyaw <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:[email protected]

    > Very true.


    Fraid not.


    > "John Richards" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> "Joseph" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]
    >>> On Thu, 26 May 2005 16:24:50 -0700, "Mij Adyaw" <[email protected]>
    >>> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Ok, assume that you are correct and that I have a GSM phone with a pull-out
    >>>>antenna. If I am very far from the nearest GSM cell site I will have a
    >>>>better chance of getting my signal to that remote cell site from a phone
    >>>>that has a pull-out antenna. Do you agree?
    >>>
    >>> No. If you knew anything about antenna design you'd see that just the
    >>> length of the antenna doesn't necessarily mean better reception and
    >>> the technology used has a big bearing on what works best for which
    >>> technology. You'll not find pull-out antennas for TDMA and GSM models
    >>> while you will with CDMA models.

    >>
    >> The antenna length should be approximately half a wavelength, which for
    >> 1900MHz works out to three inches. Exactly where that three inches is
    >> located makes a difference. If it's shaded by the circuit board, it won't
    >> work as well as when it is mostly clear of (extended away from) the circuit
    >> board.
    >>
    >> --
    >> John Richards

    >
    >






  9. #54
    Rod Speed
    Guest

    Re: Why You Still Can't Hear Me Now


    Some terminal sales ****wit claiming to be
    George Grapman <[email protected]>
    desperately attempted to bull**** its
    way out of its predicament in message
    news:[email protected]
    and fooled absolutely no one at all. As always.

    No surprise that the best its ever been able to manage is sales ****wit.





  10. #55
    Rod Speed
    Guest

    Re: Why You Still Can't Hear Me Now

    Some terminal sales ****wit claiming to be
    George Grapman <[email protected]>
    desperately attempted to bull**** its
    way out of its predicament in message
    news:[email protected]
    and fooled absolutely no one at all. As always.

    No surprise that the best its ever been able to manage is sales ****wit.





  11. #56
    Rod Speed
    Guest

    Re: Why You Still Can't Hear Me Now


    John Richards <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Andrew White <[email protected]> wrote
    >> Mij Adyaw <[email protected]> wrote


    >>> An external pull-out antenna also makes all of the difference in a marginal
    >>> signal area. In a marginal signal area, the most common problem is that the
    >>> phone cannot get it's signal to the cell site.


    >> Those things have gone the way of horse-drawn carriages. I don't think
    >> there's a single GSM phone on the market today with an extendable antenna...


    > Which is more of a tribute to styling concerns than sound RF engineering.


    Nope. The engineering reality is that internal antennas are fine
    with GSM which has a digital hard limit on how far the handset
    can be from the base and still get to communicate with the base.

    You just dont need an extendable antenna anymore with a decently
    designed modern GSM handset and it achieves absolutely nothing.





  12. #57
    Rod Speed
    Guest

    Re: Why You Still Can't Hear Me Now


    John Richards <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
    >> Mij Adyaw <[email protected]> wrote


    >>> A pull-out antenna will improve the performance for analog, GSM, CDMA, TDMA,
    >>> ... etc.


    >> Wrong. When you have an adequate
    >> signal level, the pull out antenna is useless.


    > If you happen to be close to a tower you don't need a good antenna.


    If you are anywhere in a decently design GSM network, you dont either.

    > But suppose you are in a fringe area where signal strength with a collapsed
    > antenna is too low. Then you pull out the antenna, and voila, now you have
    > enough signal to make a call.


    Doesnt work like that with GSM when you are
    outside the hard digital limit on the distance
    from the base, the base just ignores you.





  13. #58
    wse
    Guest

    Re: Why You Still Can't Hear Me Now


    Mij Adyaw <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:[email protected]

    > Agreed.


    More fool you.

    > It seems that many of us here are victims of the Rod Speed TROLL.


    How odd that some have agree with me that you dont
    have a clue about the basics of antennas with GSM.

    Or anything else at all either.

    > I will add him to my kill-file.


    Fat lot of good that will ever do you, ****wit.


    > "John Richards" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> "Rod Speed" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]
    >>>
    >>> Mij Adyaw <[email protected]> wrote in
    >>> message news:[email protected]
    >>>
    >>>> A pull-out antenna will improve the performance for analog, GSM, CDMA,
    >>>> TDMA, ... etc.
    >>>
    >>> Wrong. When you have an adequate
    >>> signal level, the pull out antenna is useless.

    >>
    >> If you happen to be close to a tower you don't need a good antenna.
    >> But suppose you are in a fringe area where signal strength with a collapsed
    >> antenna is too low. Then you pull out the antenna, and voila, now you have
    >> enough signal to make a call.
    >>
    >> --
    >> John Richards

    >
    >






  14. #59
    DevilsPGD
    Guest

    Re: Why You Still Can't Hear Me Now

    In message <[email protected]> "Rod Speed"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >Mij Adyaw <[email protected]> wrote in
    >message news:[email protected]
    >
    >> That is one the the reasons wny GSM systems are inferior to CDMA systems.

    >
    >Nope, its an inevitable consequence of the completely different
    >design approach. GSM uses a high density of bases with a digital
    >cliff that sees the base ignore handsets that are further away than
    >a specified distance from the base, even when it can hear them.
    >In THAT situation internal antennas work fine.
    >
    >CDMA is completely different with the technology allowing
    >communication with more than one base at a time, and that
    >means that the antenna requirements are quite different.
    >
    >> They simply do not want to deal with replacing broken antennas.

    >
    >That has absolutely nothing to do with it at all.


    I disagree -- That is part of the issue, otherwise they'd offer phones
    with antennas for users that want it.

    There are more factors then raw distance, if you're in a building that
    partially blocks the signal, raising the antenna can be enough to get a
    signal through.

    I use an iDEN phone, which is TDMA based, and I'm often within the
    distance limit of at least one cell site, but more likely two or three,
    but yet going into a tunnel can cause the signal to drop out. If I
    extend the antenna, I can keep the call connected for two out of three
    tunnels on the train line I used to take into work.

    Conversely, I've stood on the distance-edge of a cell site (Driving on
    the highway, at a rest stop), I had good signal at one edge of the rest
    stop, but zero signal on the other end. Diagnostic mode indicated I had
    a usable signal, but yet I was not able to make a call.

    I phoned 611 and talked to a rep to complain about the coverage hole
    (Since I was still within the coverage area on the map), and the rep
    indicated that it was simply too far from the site due to TDMA's
    distance limit, but if I kept driving for another 5 minutes or so I'd be
    in range of another cell site. The rep was correct.

    --
    "If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent
    that year in college"
    -- Lewis Black



  15. #60
    Rod Speed
    Guest

    Re: Why You Still Can't Hear Me Now


    Joseph <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > John Richards <[email protected]> wrote


    >> If you happen to be close to a tower you don't need a good antenna.
    >> But suppose you are in a fringe area where signal strength with a
    >> collapsed antenna is too low. Then you pull out the antenna, and
    >> voila, now you have enough signal to make a call.


    > You are under the impression that simply pulling out an antenna gives
    > you superior performance under all conditions with the assumption that
    > it "sees" the signal better. Such is not the case. Best performance
    > will happen when the *correct* size antenna is used.


    Its more complicated than that too with GSM.

    All you need is a good enough antenna, better than that gets you nowhere.





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