Advice on a cellular device I can use for "real work" during my commute

Jonathan Kamens wrote:

> I was under the impression that there are devices that are "in between"
> the little thumbpad devices and a full laptop. I'm talking about
> something that has a screen and a keyboard big enough to use with both
> hands on, but with limited power so that it's somewhat cost-effective
> (e.g., under $1,000). I know about the OQO and the new Viao's, but
> they're both rather expensive, and I'm wondering if there's something
> cheaper available that'll do what I need.

Get a Tablet PC with a 10.4" screen. It's almost an inverse bell curve
as far as screen size, with the tiny OQO device and the large screen
devices being the most expensive.

See "https://www.eritech.com/detail.php?item=DQ871A"

This is very usable on public transit. You can remove the keyboard and
use the stylus, or fold the keyboard under, or try using the keyboard.

The TC1100 is plenty fast for what you will be doing. Stick in a Verizon
EV-DO card for communications.

IMVAIO, this is still the best tablet design for actual use as a tablet

Unfortunately it is discontinued, but still available on the refurb market.

Also check out "http://www.dynamism.com/sa1/pricing.shtml"

There are a lot of choices, but you may want to fly over to Japan where
you don't pay such a big premium for the smaller sub-notebooks.

---

› See More: Advice on a cellular device I can use for "real work" during my commute

I'm about to start a new job, for which I'll be commuting by bus /
subway rather than driving (I've never liked driving to work). I want
to buy myself a device that will let me do email and work with
documents (Outlook, Office, PDF) during the commute, using cellular
connectivity. I've never owned one of these devices before, so I'm not
sure what's available. I've spoken to a number of people about this
and gotten conflicting opinions, so I'm looking for more data. Any
input that anyone can give me about any of this would be much
appreciated.

Here's some of what I'm mulling over...

I was under the impression that there are devices that are "in between"
the little thumbpad devices and a full laptop. I'm talking about
something that has a screen and a keyboard big enough to use with both
hands on, but with limited power so that it's somewhat cost-effective
(e.g., under $1,000). I know about the OQO and the new Viao's, but
they're both rather expensive, and I'm wondering if there's something
cheaper available that'll do what I need.

I'm interested in something bigger than a thumbpad device for a few
reasons:

(1) I'm a very quick touch typist, and even if I get good with
the thumbpad, I doubt I'll be able to type 80 WPM on it. How fast can
one get with a thumbpad?

(2) I'm worried about developing a repetitive stress injury. I've
managed to work with computers for almost three decades without
developing one, because I learned how to type correctly very early on
and have continued to do so. It seems to me that using a thumbpad
would probably be a good way to acquire a RSI, and I'd rather not find
that out the hard way. Are my fears in this area misplaced?

(3) I imagine that something with a bigger keyboard would probably
have a bigger screen as well.

On the other hand, if I get a regular thumbpad device, I'll probably
only need to carry around one device rather than two, which would be
nice.

Also, I suspect that a hand-held device, as opposed to one I use with
the keyboard in my lap, would be more useful during a commute in a bus
driving over bumpy roads.

If I do end up deciding to go with a thumbpad device, I apparently need
to choose between PalmOS and Windows Mobile. One friend I trust says
that PalmOS has screwed up their last two releases, their WiFi doesn't
work well, and their IDE costs an arm and a leg (as opposed to the
Windows Mobile IDE, which he says is free). He also says that if my
desktop machine is Windows (which it will be at my new job), I'm
better off having a Windows Mobile PDA to interface with it.

Another friend I trust says that just about everything you can do on
PalmOS, you can do faster than on Windows Mobile, and that the current
version of PalmOS is compatible with many Windows file formats. He
says that although the email client that comes with PalmOS isn't very
good, there are third-party clients that are very good, and that
there's tons more free PalmOS software available on the net than there
is for Windows Mobile.

In short, I don't know if my "dream device" actually exists, and I
don't know whether I should pick Windows Mobile or PalmOS.

So, any suggestions?

Thanks.

--
Help stop the genocide in Darfur!
http://www.genocideintervention.net/

SMS <[email protected]> writes:
>IMVAIO, this is still the best tablet design for actual use as a tablet

"IMVAIO"?

>Unfortunately it is discontinued, but still available on the refurb market.

So you're saying that you don't think any tablet currently on
the market in the US is as good as this one? Any thoughts on
why things have gone backward?

>Also check out "http://www.dynamism.com/sa1/pricing.shtml"

Hmm, no built-in PCMCIA slot. Not so good to have to hang a
USB adapter cable off the thing just to use cellular internet.

On the other hand, it's not obvious whether the TC1100 has
that either.

>There are a lot of choices, but you may want to fly over to Japan where
>you don't pay such a big premium for the smaller sub-notebooks.

Somehow I suspect that the cost of flying over to Japan would
exceed said premium. :-)

Thanks for the info.

--
Help stop the genocide in Darfur!
http://www.genocideintervention.net/

Jonathan Kamens wrote:
> SMS <[email protected]> writes:
>> IMVAIO, this is still the best tablet design for actual use as a tablet
>
> "IMVAIO"?
>
>> Unfortunately it is discontinued, but still available on the refurb market.
>
> So you're saying that you don't think any tablet currently on
> the market in the US is as good as this one? Any thoughts on
> why things have gone backward?

The T1000 and T1100 were rather unique with their smaller screen, and
because everything was in the slate, and you could detach the keyboard
(it was a USB keyboard). Most of the newer tablets are notebook
computers with a tablet type screen.

The T1000/T1100 is very usable with the keyboard in a small space. The
industrial design is something that you'd expect from a company like Apple.

The Motion Computing LS800 would also be good,
"http://motioncomputing.com/products/tablet_pc_ls.asp" but it's
expensive and you said that you didn't want to spend a lot. I don't
think that it comes with a keyboard.

The LE1600 is more like the TC1100 in design, with a detachable keyboard.

> On the other hand, it's not obvious whether the TC1100 has
> that either.

It has a CardBus slot.

> Somehow I suspect that the cost of flying over to Japan would
> exceed said premium. :-)

It's be a nice trip. Maybe use FF miles.

>>Unfortunately it is discontinued, but still available on the refurb
>>market.
>
> So you're saying that you don't think any tablet currently on
> the market in the US is as good as this one? Any thoughts on
> why things have gone backward?
>

Sales, most likely. If something doesn't sell very well it does not
stay on the market. it is that simple. If there is no profit, or only
a very small profit the manufacturers will not sell it. No matter how
good it is.
And one very good reason it doesn't sell is that most people want a full
size laptop and a PDA. Not something in between.


--
Dick #1349
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin

Home Page: dickcr.iwarp.com
email: [email protected]

It seems like everybody's got a different opinion about what
kind of SmartPhone I should get. It's quite amusing,
actually. Here's some of the answers I've gotten:

* Get PalmOS rather than Windows Mobile, because there are
way more free applications available from PalmOS and the
interface is better.

* Get Windows Mobile rather than PalmOS, because "Palm has
screwed up the last two releases of their OS", Palm's
networking support is inferior to Windows Mobile's, and
Palm's email client is inferior to Outlook Mobile (although
there are good 3rd-party Palm clients).

* Get the Windows Mobile if you want to be able to write your
own apps, because its IDE is free whereas the PalmOS IDE
costs big bucks (in which case, why are there so many more
free apps for PalmOS than for Windows Mobile?).

* Don't get the Treo because it's flaky (a good friend had to
replace three in six months).

* Get the Razr instead of the Treo (an interesting suggestion,
considering that the Razr doesn't have an actual keyboard or
much of the functionality that the Treo has).

In the end, what I've decided is to get a Moto Q from Sprint
and some sort of laptop (not sure whether it'll be
conventional or Tablet PC) to go with it. Here are the
factors which went into this decision:

* I chose Windows Mobile over PalmOS because: all of my
femployer's desktop machines and mail server (Exchange) are
Windows and I believe Windows Mobile will integrate with them
more easily than PalmOS; My employer is going to be porting
our applications to phones, and we're're more likely to do
Windows Mobile than PalmOS, and I want to be able to run our
applications on my phone; I care about being able to write my
own apps; and I want both WiFi and EV-DO to be rock solid.

* The Q screen is bigger than the Treo's (320x240 rather than
240x240).

* I took into account the feedback I've received about the
Treo hardware being flaky.

* I need a full-fledged PDA, not something trivial like the
Razr.

* The Q allows you to use it as a network card for a nearby PC
by transmitting traffic between the PC and the Q over
bluetooth. So I can be sitting on the bus with my Q strapped
to my waist and my laptop on my lap, working on the laptop
and connected to the Internet through the Q. This is pretty
darn nifty :-).

--
Help stop the genocide in Darfur!
http://www.genocideintervention.net/

Jonathan Kamens wrote:

> * The Q allows you to use it as a network card for a nearby PC
> by transmitting traffic between the PC and the Q over
> bluetooth.

Is the Q Bluetooth V2.0? The older version really isn't fast enough for
EV-DO.

So I can be sitting on the bus with my Q strapped
> to my waist and my laptop on my lap, working on the laptop
> and connected to the Internet through the Q. This is pretty
> darn nifty :-).

The big negative for the Q is that there is no WiFi solution, as the
Mini-SD slot does not supply enough current to power a Mini-SD WiFi
card. It's very possible that this was intentional.

The Treo does support WiFi with an SD or Mini-SD (with mechanical
adapter) WiFi card.

SMS <[email protected]> writes:
>Jonathan Kamens wrote:
>
>> * The Q allows you to use it as a network card for a nearby PC
>> by transmitting traffic between the PC and the Q over
>> bluetooth.
>
>Is the Q Bluetooth V2.0? The older version really isn't fast enough for
>EV-DO.

If I find there's a speed issue, I can use a USB cable
instead of BlueTooth. It's slightly less convenient, but
certainly not impossible. I don't expect to need to do
high-bandwidth stuff very often.

>So I can be sitting on the bus with my Q strapped
>> to my waist and my laptop on my lap, working on the laptop
>> and connected to the Internet through the Q. This is pretty
>> darn nifty :-).
>
>The big negative for the Q is that there is no WiFi solution, as the
>Mini-SD slot does not supply enough current to power a Mini-SD WiFi
>card. It's very possible that this was intentional.

I don't really need WiFi on the phone if I'm paying for EV-DO,
and I'm certainly going to make sure that whatever laptop I
get has WiFi.

The 320x240 is a really big deal for me, certainly big enough
to offset the issues above. Admittedly, they're real issues,
but they don't seem like showstoppers.

--
Help stop the genocide in Darfur!
http://www.genocideintervention.net/

Jonathan Kamens wrote:

> I don't really need WiFi on the phone if I'm paying for EV-DO,
> and I'm certainly going to make sure that whatever laptop I
> get has WiFi.

Yes, with unlimited EV-DO, the only reason you might still want Wi-Fi on
the PDA is to use Skype or some other IP phone for international calls,
or to keep from using up your peak minutes on domestic calls.

I bet that one of the reasons that Verizon turned down Apple for the
iPhone is that Verizon doesn't like the idea of WiFi on a phone.

Jonathan Kamens wrote in alt.cellular

> It seems like everybody's got a different opinion about what
> kind of SmartPhone I should get. It's quite amusing,
> actually. Here's some of the answers I've gotten:

snip most of the comments

> * The Q allows you to use it as a network card for a nearby PC
> by transmitting traffic between the PC and the Q over
> bluetooth. So I can be sitting on the bus with my Q strapped
> to my waist and my laptop on my lap, working on the laptop
> and connected to the Internet through the Q. This is pretty
> darn nifty :-).

having just reread your original post, you wanted a device that you
could use instead of your laptop during your bus ride. And then you
talk about connecting your laptop to your phone for internet service
while on the bus? If that is all you want to do, consider getting a
pc card for your laptop.
However, I do not remember any mention of carrier, so take not that
Verizon, Sprint and Cingular provide high speed internet, and devices
to take advantage of it. So Ev-do is not the only way to go.
However, a laptop on a bumpy road would not be a good idea. And a handheld
device is not all that great either because the phone is bouncing
differently than you are.
But, a phone like cingualar's 8528 would probably fit your needs.
And if you want to tether it to your laptop as a modem that will work.
As a matter of fact, almost any data capable phone can be tethered to
your laptop to use as a modem.
So, unless you have a contract with one carrier, do not ignore the others.


>



--
Dick #1349
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
~Benjamin Franklin

Home Page: dickcr.iwarp.com
email: [email protected]

Dick C <[email protected]> writes:
>having just reread your original post, you wanted a device that you
>could use instead of your laptop during your bus ride. And then you
>talk about connecting your laptop to your phone for internet service
>while on the bus?

I couldn't find a single handheld device that I felt would be adequate
for working on while commuting, so I fell back on my second choice,
which is a PDA phone plus a Tablet PC.

>If that is all you want to do, consider getting a
>pc card for your laptop.

I'm going to need a PDA phone no matter what, because I'm going to
need to be "wired" even when I'm not near my laptop or desktop PC.

>However, I do not remember any mention of carrier, so take not that
>Verizon, Sprint and Cingular provide high speed internet, and devices
>to take advantage of it. So Ev-do is not the only way to go.

I've found Sprint's coverage to be a bit better than Verizon's,
although admittedly that's rather subjective and I suspect that some
other people have had exactly the opposite experience. Furthermore,
I'm under the impression, perhaps incorrect, that Sprint's nationwide
network is better than Verizon's, which is important because I expect
to be doing some traveling for the company.

Didn't really give much thought to Cingular, since I've had more
experience with Verizon and Sprint. Perhaps I should have, but I think
the Cingular 8525 (I don't see the 8528 you mentioned on their site)
doesn't really provide all that much more of what I need than the Moto
Q, and it's way more expensive.

If I could have found a PDA phone with a real qwerty keyboard and a
640x480 screen, I might have been willing to settle for just that for
working while commuting. But all the devices I found with 640x480
screens don't have qwerty keyboards. Did I miss one? The biggest
screen I've found on a device with a qwerty keyboard is 320x240, which
is what the Moto Q has.

Any idea how Cingular's Boston and nationwide networks compare to
Sprint's?

>However, a laptop on a bumpy road would not be a good idea.

Given that I'll be spending most of my time reading rather than
typing, a Tablet PC, will probably do me just fine, although I'm not
going to commit to that until I've actually had the chance to hold one
in my hand and actually try out the interface. I've called around to
a few placed around here and haven't actually been able to find one,
although Micro Center claims they'll be getting some in the next week
or so.

Thanks for the comments, I appreciate them.

--
Help stop the genocide in Darfur!
http://www.genocideintervention.net/

With a little more digging, I found references to a phone called the
"HTC Universal", which is apparently rebranded by different vendors as
the Qtek 9000, T-Mobile MDA Pro, Orange SPV M5000, O2 Xda Exec, i-mate
JASJAR, and others. The review I found at
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/5424.html says that this is the only
Pocket PC phone with a 640x480 screen. That review is pretty
positive, and I've found other positive reviews as well, and they seem
to agree that this phone is honestly useable as a small alptop.

The thing is, as far as I can tell, it isn't sold by Verizon, Sprint,
Cingular, or T-Mobile (T-Mobile lists the MDA on its Web site as being
available for my ZIP code, but not the MDA Pro). It looks like it may
not be compatible with the Verizon or Sprint networks, but it *does*
appear that it's compatible with Cingular and T-Mobile, so why don't
they sell it?

I'm new to the world of smart phones, so it's not obvious to me whether
I can simply buy an unlocked HTC Universal from a third party and then
easily use it with Cingular or T-Mobile. If I call them on the phone
and ask, are the droids who answer the phones likely to be able to
answer a question like that? And what do I do if I don't want to
waste money buying a phone I'm not going to use from them -- tell them
I'm going to buy the phone myself and ask them to simply sell me a SIM
card?

--
Help stop the genocide in Darfur!
http://www.genocideintervention.net/

At 04 Feb 2007 03:05:59 +0000 Jonathan Kamens wrote:
> With a little more digging, I found references to a phone called the
> "HTC Universal", which is apparently rebranded by different vendors as
> the Qtek 9000, T-Mobile MDA Pro, Orange SPV M5000, O2 Xda Exec, i-mate
> JASJAR, and others. The review I found at
> http://msmobiles.com/news.php/5424.html says that this is the only
> Pocket PC phone with a 640x480 screen. That review is pretty
> positive, and I've found other positive reviews as well, and they seem
> to agree that this phone is honestly useable as a small alptop.


Not quite a laptop- at least no more so than any other Windows Mobile
Pocket PC, but certainly a nice phone...

....If you lived in Europe, that is...

It's a GSM phone, so it won't work with CDMA carriers like Verizon or
Sprint, and it's a tri-band, supporting only one US frequency: 1900MHz,
and not 850, making it partially usable on T-Mobile (all of their native
coverage is 1900, but they have some 850MHz roaming partners) and
virtually unusable on Cingular, who uses both 850 and 1900.

> The thing is, as far as I can tell, it isn't sold by Verizon, Sprint,
> Cingular, or T-Mobile (T-Mobile lists the MDA on its Web site as being
> available for my ZIP code, but not the MDA Pro).

T-Mobile has some naming convention problems in the US- the phone they
call the MDA here (an HTC Wizard), is called the "MDA IV" or "MDA Vario"
in other countries because in Europe they've already called other HTC-
brand phones the MDA (and MDA Compact, MDA II, MDA Pro, etc.) The
Universal is not designed for the US market, so it's never been offered
by a carrier here.

> It looks like it may
> not be compatible with the Verizon or Sprint networks

Not compatible at all.

> but it *does*
> appear that it's compatible with Cingular and T-Mobile, so why don't
> they sell it?

Again, no 850-MHz coverage, rendering it unusable on Cingular in many
areas, and, more importantly, no support for high-speed 3G data in the US-
it's a phone designed for Europe, so it uses Europe's 3G data frequency,
not Cingular's. It doesn't even support EDGE (2.5G) so the fastest data
speed it would get here would be GPRS (30-50kbps- roughly dialup speed.)


> I'm new to the world of smart phones, so it's not obvious to me whether
> I can simply buy an unlocked HTC Universal from a third party and then
> easily use it with Cingular or T-Mobile.

Sure- just stick your SIM card in and go.

> If I call them on the phone
> and ask, are the droids who answer the phones likely to be able to
> answer a question like that? And what do I do if I don't want to
> waste money buying a phone I'm not going to use from them -- tell them
> I'm going to buy the phone myself and ask them to simply sell me a SIM
> card?

Normally you'd take the best "free" phone they offer and keep it as a
backup or sell it on eBay. Unlike with CDMA where your phone is activated,
on GSM, your "SIM" card (Subscriber Identity Module)- a little chip with
your account credentials is activated and you can then stick that SIM in
any compatible phone you want, without having to notify your carrier to
activate another phone.

I move my SIM between different phones for different needs. Most of the
time it's in my MDA, but if I intend to be in a place I deem too
"dangerous" for a $300 PDA phone, like the beach, I'll stick my SIM in an
old Nokia I've had for 6 six years.


Th closest things to the Universal sold here in the states are Verizon
and Sprint's PPC-6700s, and Cingular's 8525, but they're all 320x240
rather than 640x480. (The similar T-Mo MDA lacks 3G data , but then again,
so does T-Mobile itself until later this year!)

Personally, I find 320x240 acceptable in this form factor. My MDA has a
2.8" screen, a size which, IMHO, is a more limiting factor than it's QVGA
resolution.

Look at the 6700s or 8525 before you dismiss them for the QVGA display-
the slideout keyboards make them more usable for data entry than
something like the Motorola Q, and the PPC platform has a more complete
WinMobile software suite than it's non-touchscreen "smartphone" cousins.

Todd Allcock <[email protected]> writes:
>Look at the 6700s or 8525 before you dismiss them for the QVGA display-
>the slideout keyboards make them more usable for data entry than
>something like the Motorola Q, and the PPC platform has a more complete
>WinMobile software suite than it's non-touchscreen "smartphone" cousins.

Sprint has stopped selling the 6700 in their stores, and I heard from
a Sprint employee that it's sometimes difficult to get it through
their Web site as well. The rumor is that they're going to be coming
out with a replacement for it soon. So I don't think that's the way
to go.

The 8525 does look promising, and it has three significant things that
the Moto Q doesn't have -- a touch screen, Bluetooth 2.0, and WiFi.
Not to mention, as you point out, the bigger keyboard. So it seems
that you and others are right that the 8525 is much closer to a
functional PDA and Pocket PC than the Moto Q. I've therefore just
ordered an 8525 to try along with the Moto Q I've already ordered. If
I decide it's good enough to warrant the extra $250, I'll send back
the Moto Q; if I decide it isn't worth the extra money, I'll send back
the 8525.

I'm also doing this to test Cingular's customer service compared to
Sprint's. Getting the Moto Q from Sprint was unbelievably annoying
(spoke to lots of people on the phone who didn't have a clue, got
bounced around from person to person so many times I lost count, order
status app doesn't actually show useful order status information, they
have different computer systems that don't actually talk to each other,
etc.) and they didn't even ship the phone until three days after I
ordered it. To my mind, that's ridiculous. If I walked into a retail
store, I could walk out with a phone an hour later; why they can't do
the same thing from a Web order, I have no idea. We'll see if Cingular
does any better.

--
Help stop the genocide in Darfur!
http://www.genocideintervention.net/

Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote:

>Normally you'd take the best "free" phone they offer and keep it as a
>backup or sell it on eBay. Unlike with CDMA where your phone is activated,
>on GSM, your "SIM" card (Subscriber Identity Module)- a little chip with
>your account credentials is activated and you can then stick that SIM in
>any compatible phone you want, without having to notify your carrier to
>activate another phone.

Does the above strategy work with ONLY gsm base phones?