Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1
    Dan Lanciani
    Guest
    I finally gave in and cancelled my analog cell phone service. This
    leaves me with a fair bit of quipment that is headed for the trash
    unless someone wants it. I have:

    -a number of MicroTac Elites (mostly EE2, one EE3)
    -a number of 3W car kits for the above (mostly EE2, one EE3)
    (One car kit is mounted in a bag phone bag for portable operation.)
    -a number of bag phones of various vintages
    -RJ11 adapters for both the Elite and bag phones (or Elite in car kit)
    -assorted chargers, cigarette lighter adapters, cables, cradles

    Dan Lanciani
    ddl@danlan.*com



    See More: Analog cell phone equipment




  2. #2
    nfrabbit
    Guest

    Re: Analog cell phone equipment

    On 21 Sep 2007 20:43:17 GMT, ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote:

    >I finally gave in and cancelled my analog cell phone service. This
    >leaves me with a fair bit of quipment that is headed for the trash
    >unless someone wants it. I have:
    >
    >-a number of MicroTac Elites (mostly EE2, one EE3)
    >-a number of 3W car kits for the above (mostly EE2, one EE3)
    > (One car kit is mounted in a bag phone bag for portable operation.)
    >-a number of bag phones of various vintages
    >-RJ11 adapters for both the Elite and bag phones (or Elite in car kit)
    >-assorted chargers, cigarette lighter adapters, cables, cradles
    >
    > Dan Lanciani
    > ddl@danlan.*com


    Try posting this on E-Bay. I'm sure there are collectors out there who
    would be interested in this.



  3. #3
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: Analog cell phone equipment

    ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote in news:[email protected]:

    > a number of bag phones of various vintages


    Don't toss the bagphones! Configure them to operate from cigarette
    lighter power, not batteries that require maintenance, then put one in
    the trunk of each of your vehicles, unregistered with a carrier, so you
    can contact 911 from its powerful transmitter in case of emergency when
    the pitiful, new toyphone won't connect if your life depends on it.

    I have one in each of my vehicles and have placed one in each of the
    yachts I sail on. Take the load off a dead car battery (turn off the
    interior lights) and the bagphone will operate for hours unless the
    battery is shorted or exploded.

    My condolences on your loss-of-service...I lost mine a few years ago when
    I caught my competitor, red handed, monitoring my business phone calls on
    his scanner. That's my reason for digital.

    I'm using the Motorola E815 CDMA on Alltel, here, because it has an
    external antenna connector I can plug into my 3 watt/2 watt dual-band bi-
    directional DA4000 power amplifier and 9db colinear antenna on top of my
    service truck. It raises the "full power" limit of the little toyphone
    back up to bagphone limits on our 800 Mhz CDMA system when I'm out in the
    boonies where the towers are STILL quite far apart. The toyphone is
    useless out there without it.

    http://cellantenna.com/Boosters/da4000.htm

    If you are a Verizon customer, please be informed using any amplifier on
    their system is "forbidden" by their agreement, recently. It lowers
    revenue. Alltel says it's ok. DA4000's price sure has dropped since I
    got mine....dammit...(c;

    Larry
    --



  4. #4
    Todd Allcock
    Guest

    Re: Analog cell phone equipment

    At 22 Sep 2007 03:21:32 +0000 Larry wrote:

    > My condolences on your loss-of-service...I lost mine a few years

    ago when
    > I caught my competitor, red handed, monitoring my business phone

    calls on
    > his scanner.


    Wow. I had no idea the Souh Carolina organ repair business was so
    cutthroat!



    --

    "I don't need my cell phone to play video games or take pictures
    or double as a Walkie-Talkie; I just need it to work. Thanks for
    all the bells and whistles, but I could communicate better with
    ACTUAL bells and whistles." -Bill Maher 9/25/2003




  5. #5
    Andreas Wenzel
    Guest

    Re: Analog cell phone equipment

    Larry schrieb:
    > [...]
    > If you are a Verizon customer, please be informed using any amplifier on
    > their system is "forbidden" by their agreement, recently. It lowers
    > revenue. [...]


    How is that?

    Andreas



  6. #6
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: Analog cell phone equipment

    Todd Allcock <[email protected]> wrote in news:MG1Ji.10900$%
    [email protected]:

    > Wow. I had no idea the Souh Carolina organ repair business was so
    > cutthroat!
    >
    >
    >
    >


    Any business would love to listen to their competitors' phone calls....

    Larry
    --
    Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium"
    The ultimate dirty bomb......



  7. #7
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: Analog cell phone equipment

    Andreas Wenzel <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > Larry schrieb:
    >> [...]
    >> If you are a Verizon customer, please be informed using any amplifier
    >> on their system is "forbidden" by their agreement, recently. It
    >> lowers revenue. [...]

    >
    > How is that?
    >
    > Andreas
    >


    If you are using a phone whos maximum power to its tiny, inefficient
    antenna is, say 150 milliwatts when it has been turned up by the system
    to full power, its transmitter/antenna at max level make a noise that
    covers, say, 1 to 3 km.

    But, plug that same phone into a 3W amplifier and high gain antenna on
    top of a high vehicle, like my truck, and it's 3W x antenna gain at
    altitude signal is MUCH stronger at a MUCH farther distance, and can
    create havoc on that same channel in OTHER cells until you get off the
    air. This is why cellular keeps reducing transmitter power from 600mw to
    300mw to 150mw to 120mw in more recent times after digital came into use.
    We use a propaganda campaign telling Americans how dangerous cellular
    phones are to their bodies to get them to accept ever-more-pitifully-
    inadequate transmitters.

    CDMA used by Verizon/Alltel/Sprint in America, allows 24 simultaneous
    users to use each channel, creating 24 revenue streams where only one
    existed on AMPS.....providing the system doesn't have to lock out this
    channel on this tower because of interference from other users on other
    towers, like one running an amplifier and/or more serious antenna with
    more range....which reduces revenue/per area/hour to the company. Your
    GSM system also allows multiple users on a single shared channel.

    So, solution is to outlaw and punish, same as usual, any users caught
    running such legal equipment.....by dumping them from the service.

    Unlike you much-smarter Europeans, American cellular companies will never
    spend money putting in REPEATER stations to fill in the gaps in coverage,
    which is an admission of poor coverage. They leave the dead hole,
    instead. Every carrier, here in America, has lots of dead holes in less-
    profitable areas, especially in the countryside away from profitable
    cities. Users can only add power and antenna up to our FCC government
    limit of 3W on 800 Mhz and 2W on PCS 1900 Mhz to shrink these holes in
    coverage to more acceptable levels.

    If you come to America, notice our other backwards utilities, especially
    electric power, which is still strung with wires overhead on poles like a
    3rd world poverty-stricken fiefdom, instead of underground like most of
    Western Europe enjoys. It's caused by the same reason...the love of
    MONEY.

    Larry
    --
    Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium"
    The ultimate dirty bomb......



  8. #8
    Andreas Wenzel
    Guest

    Re: Analog cell phone equipment

    Larry schrieb:
    > [...]
    > CDMA used by Verizon/Alltel/Sprint in America, allows 24 simultaneous
    > users to use each channel, creating 24 revenue streams where only one
    > existed on AMPS.....providing the system doesn't have to lock out this
    > channel on this tower because of interference from other users on other
    > towers, [...]


    I do not really get your scenario.

    CDMA networks (I must admit that I have no experience with CDMA, but I
    do have some with WCDMA which shares some basic rules with CDMA) do only
    work properly, if all signals reaching a tower have roughly the same
    signal level. To assure this, the network uses power control, meaning
    that the network tells each phone what transmit power to use. If the
    signal reaching the tower is too strong, the phone is asked to reduce
    power, if it is too weak, the phone is asked to speak up. Of course, the
    aim is to use as little transmit power as possible.

    Also, if in a call, the network has control about what tower the mobile
    talks to. The phone measures the signal level of all towers around and
    tells the network about the results. The network then directs the phone
    to use the tower that provides the strongest signal.

    In the end, the phone will always use as little power as possible to
    create a signal that is just good enough to be decoded at the nearest
    tower. How is that signal supposed to create disturbing interference at
    a tower that is further away (in terms of path loss, not necessarily in
    terms of miles) than the one your are using?

    > like one running an amplifier and/or more serious antenna with
    > more range....which reduces revenue/per area/hour to the company. Your
    > GSM system also allows multiple users on a single shared channel.
    >
    > So, solution is to outlaw and punish, same as usual, any users caught
    > running such legal equipment.....by dumping them from the service.


    Well, if those users really cause trouble for the network (which I do
    not really see why that would be the case), I can understand the
    opererator's wish to keep these users off their system.

    > Unlike you much-smarter Europeans, American cellular companies will never
    > spend money putting in REPEATER stations to fill in the gaps in coverage,
    > which is an admission of poor coverage.


    I doubt this has much to do with smartness (or the lack thereof) but
    rather with the fact that is is very expensive to reach full coverage in
    a country as big as yours while there is little revenue to be expected
    from putting up base stations in sparsely populated areas.

    Germany has over 600 people per square mile, the USA have only 80. On
    average, a tower set up in Germany has more than seven times as many
    potential users within coverage than an average base station (of the
    same type) would have in the US. The operators are not the salvation
    army, they need to follow the rules of economics. It just does not make
    any sense to set up a tower that is used only for one call per week.

    > They leave the dead hole,
    > instead. Every carrier, here in America, has lots of dead holes in less-
    > profitable areas, especially in the countryside away from profitable
    > cities. Users can only add power and antenna up to our FCC government
    > limit of 3W on 800 Mhz and 2W on PCS 1900 Mhz to shrink these holes in
    > coverage to more acceptable levels.


    There is one very good reason not to use power amplifiers: they do not
    do anything for your downlink path. There is no sense in shouting to the
    base station with 3W if you cannot hear the answer because the base
    station uses only 0.1W to answer.

    Andreas



  9. #9
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: Analog cell phone equipment

    Andreas Wenzel <[email protected]> wrote in news:fd4ebk$2gt$1
    @online.de:

    > In the end, the phone will always use as little power as possible to
    > create a signal that is just good enough to be decoded at the nearest
    > tower. How is that signal supposed to create disturbing interference at
    > a tower that is further away (in terms of path loss, not necessarily in
    > terms of miles) than the one your are using?
    >
    >


    This all works well when the required power is something less than the
    full power the phone is capable of. But, what happens when the full
    power isn't enough power to level you with the other phones on the
    channel?....

    Let's say you are in the countryside, where the towers are still spaced
    for AMPS phones running 3 watts. That is the reality in America. And,
    you have this new toyphone running 150mw to a useless little antenna to
    make the phone cute for the teenage girls. For the company, this is an
    ideal phone. When the system turns the power up to full, the amount of
    radiation is very low from the phone. This low radiation will not
    disturb other tower sectors on other towers that have other users, who go
    on using the channel unencumbered by your interference.

    Now, some smartass like me comes along with his powerful amplifier and
    antenna with 30 db more ERP than the phone is supposed to radiate. I'm
    in a fringe of the nearest tower it's connected to, so the system tells
    my phone to radiate maximum power to try to level it with the other
    channel users. Having 30 db more available ERP because of the amp and
    high gain antenna, my ERP is 1000 times more than the toyphone and its
    pitiful cute antenna is alone. What's going to happen to any other
    towers within range of my 1000 times more powerful signal? I'm going to
    be heard, not on one tower very weakly and not at all on other towers.
    No, I'm going to be heard by 8 sectors on 4 towers in range of my
    powerful station. The phones are synchronized to ONE sector, or maybe 3
    on the same tower. They are not synchronized across the system to the
    other towers that can hear me. Interference to other stations results,
    interference the system cannot ignore. So, the system switches users off
    the channel I'm on onto another channel with no interference. I've made
    this channel useless to 7 other sectors while I'm on the air with my
    amp/antenna. This is why I don't plug the phone into it if I can help
    it. There's no sense poking a stick at the dragon requiring his reaction
    just because you can. I only connect the amp in the boondocks way away
    from the city. It makes my phone usable in places it wouldn't, the
    reason for the amp/antenna in the first place.

    The LOWER limit of RF output is also an issue when the phone is plugged
    into an amp. The power the phone can be switched to has a lower limit as
    well. I think it's something like 20mw. When I'm looking at the tower
    with only the phone, this is my ERP on the crap antenna. If I'm plugged
    into the amp/antenna with 30 db of gain, the lower limit of the phone's
    output is 20 watts ERP. This causes my signal to be FAR stronger than
    other users on my channel. The amp/antenna system's gain is fixed. It's
    also near linear. So, I'm riding by the tower swamping the tower's
    receiver with my 20 watt ERP monster, blanking out the other users if the
    system receiver cannot recover from my blast before the next guy in line
    transmits his burst of data. His call drops. So, it is not nice to have
    the amp plugged in when you are in a good signal area because the system
    cannot turn my output power DOWN far enough to compensate for the extra
    30 db of ERP. I think this lower limit, even on just straight phones,
    can cause the system troubles from users standing outside right under the
    tower. NO sense in making it worse.....


    Larry
    --
    Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium"
    The ultimate dirty bomb......



  10. #10
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: Analog cell phone equipment

    Andreas Wenzel <[email protected]> wrote in news:fd4ebk$2gt$1
    @online.de:

    > There is one very good reason not to use power amplifiers: they do not
    > do anything for your downlink path. There is no sense in shouting to

    the
    > base station with 3W if you cannot hear the answer because the base
    > station uses only 0.1W to answer.
    >
    > Andreas
    >
    >


    With a powerful, directional panel antenna at 50 meters altitude, hearing
    the tower is never a problem. Getting a usable signal above the
    receiver's noise floor back TO the tower is always the problem. This
    makes the amp valuable. Come ride with me and I'll show it to you. The
    amp/antenna's gain and position higher up OUTSIDE of the metal body far
    intensifies the signal from the tower, too. On the phone's test page
    display, it's about 30 db when the signal is below -95 dbm. Plugging the
    phone into it when the phone is in a no service condition, almost always
    results in the phone locking to a tower with more signal than -90 dbm,
    with the resulting solid phone calls. Even if the path to the tower is
    mostly multipath reflections off terrain and tall objects, the
    amp/antenna makes the trip. It rises you up over the noise floor of the
    receiver and over the din of other users on your channel.....just like
    plugging the bagphone into the external antenna of the car used to clear
    up your AMPS signal.



    Larry
    --
    Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium"
    The ultimate dirty bomb......



  11. #11
    Andreas Wenzel
    Guest

    Re: Analog cell phone equipment

    Larry schrieb:
    > [...]
    > Now, some smartass like me comes along with his powerful amplifier and
    > antenna with 30 db more ERP than the phone is supposed to radiate. I'm
    > in a fringe of the nearest tower it's connected to, so the system tells
    > my phone to radiate maximum power to try to level it with the other
    > channel users. Having 30 db more available ERP because of the amp and
    > high gain antenna, my ERP is 1000 times more than the toyphone and its
    > pitiful cute antenna is alone. What's going to happen to any other
    > towers within range of my 1000 times more powerful signal?


    Not much as there shouldn't be any. You said you're in a fringe of the
    nearest tower, which is why you're radiating at full power. If that is
    just enough to reach the nearest tower, your signal must be too weak to
    be decoded by the second nearest tower. So how is a signal too weak for
    decoding going to cause interference at the second tower?

    > I'm going to
    > be heard, not on one tower very weakly and not at all on other towers.
    > No, I'm going to be heard by 8 sectors on 4 towers in range of my
    > powerful station. The phones are synchronized to ONE sector, or maybe 3
    > on the same tower. They are not synchronized across the system to the
    > other towers that can hear me.


    That should be prevented by power control. Why would the phone need to
    be syncronized to a sector to not cause interference at it? I would
    think it is enough if the power level is kept low enough to be heard at
    only one tower.

    > [...]
    > The LOWER limit of RF output is also an issue when the phone is plugged
    > into an amp. The power the phone can be switched to has a lower limit as
    > well. I think it's something like 20mw. When I'm looking at the tower
    > with only the phone, this is my ERP on the crap antenna. If I'm plugged
    > into the amp/antenna with 30 db of gain, the lower limit of the phone's
    > output is 20 watts ERP. This causes my signal to be FAR stronger than
    > other users on my channel. The amp/antenna system's gain is fixed. It's
    > also near linear. So, I'm riding by the tower swamping the tower's
    > receiver with my 20 watt ERP monster, blanking out the other users if the
    > system receiver cannot recover from my blast before the next guy in line
    > transmits his burst of data. His call drops. So, it is not nice to have
    > the amp plugged in when you are in a good signal area because the system
    > cannot turn my output power DOWN far enough to compensate for the extra
    > 30 db of ERP. I think this lower limit, even on just straight phones,
    > can cause the system troubles from users standing outside right under the
    > tower. NO sense in making it worse.....


    If the range of power control is really only 8.75dB on CDMA, then I
    agree that this is a valid point. But I strongly doubt that. IIRC, the
    power of an RF signal at the receiver side rises by 6dB every time the
    distance is halved. Therefore, the system would be unable to keep the
    signals from phones closer to the tower than approx. 1/3rd of the cell
    range level with those at the edge of the cell. That seems pretty
    unacceptable. I don't really know about CDMA, but in WCDMA (UMTS), the
    power control range is 80dB. With an 80dB range, your power could still
    be tuned down to a level of 50dB below that of an unamplified phone
    (that would be 1.5µW), meaning that you can come be pretty close to the
    tower and still cause no damage.

    In the end, I don't see a commercial benefit for the operator to ban the
    use of amplifiers. In the end, if you can make a call (and pay for it)
    that you couldn't without the amplifier, that should be just fine for
    the operator.

    Maybe the ban is to prevent liabilities issues ("I used your network
    with an amplifier and now my brain is fried I want 1 trillion Dollars in
    damages!") or they are afraid of interference caused to other
    frequencies caused by non linear amps or whatever...

    Andreas



  12. #12
    Andreas Wenzel
    Guest

    Re: Analog cell phone equipment

    Larry schrieb:

    > With a powerful, directional panel antenna at 50 meters altitude, hearing
    > the tower is never a problem. Getting a usable signal above the
    > receiver's noise floor back TO the tower is always the problem. This
    > makes the amp valuable. Come ride with me and I'll show it to you. The
    > amp/antenna's gain and position higher up OUTSIDE of the metal body far
    > intensifies the signal from the tower, too. On the phone's test page
    > display, it's about 30 db when the signal is below -95 dbm. Plugging the
    > phone into it when the phone is in a no service condition, almost always
    > results in the phone locking to a tower with more signal than -90 dbm,
    > with the resulting solid phone calls. Even if the path to the tower is
    > mostly multipath reflections off terrain and tall objects, the
    > amp/antenna makes the trip. It rises you up over the noise floor of the
    > receiver and over the din of other users on your channel.....just like
    > plugging the bagphone into the external antenna of the car used to clear
    > up your AMPS signal.


    The antenna does improve up- and downlink path as well, that's for sure.
    But the power amplifier only improves the uplink path.

    However, there is one thing I did not think about when I wrote the
    previous posting: The interference situation for you (on the
    countryside) will most likely be much more relaxed compared to the that
    of the base station (in the city). Therefore, it may be worthwile for
    you to put more power in the uplink as the base station puts into the
    downlink...

    Andreas




  13. #13
    Donald Newcomb
    Guest

    Re: Analog cell phone equipment

    "Larry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote in news:[email protected]:
    >
    > > a number of bag phones of various vintages

    >
    > Don't toss the bagphones! Configure them to operate from cigarette
    > lighter power, not batteries that require maintenance, then put one in
    > the trunk of each of your vehicles, unregistered with a carrier, so you
    > can contact 911 from its powerful transmitter in case of emergency when
    > the pitiful, new toyphone won't connect if your life depends on it.


    This will probably continue to work in rural areas after the FCC no longer
    requires the maintenance of analog cellular service. If it doesn't then the
    toy phone should work. What have you got to lose? 1/2 cubic foot of trunk
    space? I don't know how you went so long on your old analog plan. You
    weren't getting any bargains with an analog phone.


    --
    Donald R. Newcomb
    DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net





  14. #14
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: Analog cell phone equipment

    Andreas Wenzel <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

    > But the power amplifier only improves the uplink path.
    >


    The amps also have built-in preamps for the receivers on the other side of
    their duplexers. I'm not much of a preamp fan because it's a hoax. The
    noise floor of the new receivers is below the sun and heat noise of the
    parking lot, in the daytime, so the preamp just amplifies both the signal
    and the noise, not really improving the signal-to-noise ratio. The
    transmit power amp, on the other hand DOES improve the signal-to-noise
    ratio the tower hears from me.

    Larry
    --
    "POWER is our FRIEND!".....an old friend who was a paging system owner as
    we were lugging his monstrous Quintron paging transmitters from the truck
    to the base of the tower for installation....(c; Paging didn't have "dead
    spots" because all 17 500 watt paging transmitters were synchronized to the
    same exact frequency and data and flooded the little pager's receiver with
    RF...even 50 miles away!



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