Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1
    Ted
    Guest
    " First, cell phones made the streetcorner pay phone obsolete. Now
    they're doing away with the need to ask for directions. A surge in
    phones with built-in satellite navigation capability has sparked a wave
    of creative mapping and locating services. And it has set off a
    multibillion-dollar scramble by companies to buy up digital navigation
    technologies..."

    Business Week: http://easyurl.net/351




    See More: The paperless map is the killer app




  2. #2
    Happy Trails
    Guest

    Re: The paperless map is the killer app

    On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 08:49:54 +0100, Ted
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >" First, cell phones made the streetcorner pay phone obsolete. Now
    >they're doing away with the need to ask for directions. A surge in
    >phones with built-in satellite navigation capability has sparked a wave
    >of creative mapping and locating services. And it has set off a
    >multibillion-dollar scramble by companies to buy up digital navigation
    >technologies..."
    >
    >Business Week: http://easyurl.net/351



    It will fizzle!

    There's not 1% of the cellfone using public who can or wants to read a
    map of any description. They just keep phoning their friends to ask
    where they are, hahaha.




  3. #3
    Steven
    Guest

    Re: The paperless map is the killer app

    I agree

    I would go buy -- say an iPhone with GPS and map, but the need to also add
    an SD card for data expansion and they would need to keep the "use fees"
    "reasonable"

    What is "reasonable varies by individual, but as noted given people
    experience with their broadband connections at home... I would expect the
    addtive fees for this would needs to be fairly low in terms of "end state of
    the monthly bll" -- if the features expand much more past the current cell
    rates and each'es charge. people simply will not bother as many will say --
    that features is not worth the $$

    However, I could see more uses gps and maps than watching TV on the phone.
    as such features would include POI information to would help direct folks to
    businesses and services

    MAPS/POI features are a good fit with a mobile Phone/Communication device

    as to media player stuff - Folks do use their phones for that too.. but to
    me I would need the SD card expansion tp make this worth. I travel and do
    listen to music, but more however listen to audible (audiobooks) so type of
    media support matters to several of us..

    I played with a friends iPhone and I liked it overall, but would not buy one
    until it has exchangable media card and would like to have the GPS/MAP/POI
    if the sevice is not overpriced..

    as note -- I have 2 GPS'es and use them frequently. one is for the car, one
    is for backpacking.hiking.geocaching.. both have locally loaded data. Garmin
    tries to get 75-150 dollars a year to update the map data -- sometimes I buy
    the updates sometime I do not..

    "John Tserkezis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Happy Trails wrote:
    >
    >> Go waste your money investing in it if you like - it will fizzle like
    >> just so many dot.com companies. Of course a few will make it - make
    >> sure you pick the right one, hahahahaha.

    >
    > It'll flop, but not for the reason you think.
    >
    > Technically, it's a feature that would sell well for those who simply
    > must have the very latest gadget. And there's lots of those cashed-up
    > buyers around.
    > Not enough to support an entire cartography department within a phone
    > company, but a respectable amount.
    >
    >
    > "GPS maps on your phone" is not quite the whole story. I'll be betting
    > that ALL of them are live data sent to the phone while you're using it.
    > (No local storage of maps) That is, wonderful data charges every time you
    > want to use it.
    >
    > This is a very lucrative deal, and can make lots of money.
    >
    > Till everyone works out that it is much more expensive than they first
    > thought. Whoops. Those $700+ standalone satnav units appear a lot
    > cheaper now, don't they.
    >
    >
    > Same thing will happen as with TV on your phone here in Australia.
    > "Watch TV on your phone" they said. "It's wonderful" they said. The 3G
    > carriers geared up quite heavily to cope for the anticipated demand.
    > Except it never came. Outside of the introductory cheap or free TV
    > deals, people learned that watching TV on a 2" screen really IS a joke.
    > Not even data has taken up the 3G left-over bandwidth, it's just too
    > bloody expensive.
    >
    > As it stands now, the projected TV charges never materialised, all the
    > carriers are in perpetual "introductory" charges mode. They figure a BIT
    > of money is better than no money at all.
    >
    > So what has 3G been delegated to now? Same as all the other networks.
    > SMS. That's big business. Has been, is now, and is likely to be.
    >
    >
    > They're hoping that cartography will use all that equipment bandwidth
    > they bought but no-one wants to use...
    >
    > And I don't think *this* idea will work any better than previous ideas
    > because they're using the EXACT same pay per unit use structure as before.
    > Past the introductory prices, it'll drop like the proverbial fly.
    > --
    > Linux Registered User # 302622
    > <http://counter.li.org>





  4. #4
    Steven
    Guest

    Re: The paperless map is the killer app

    addendum.. Garmin -- the maker of my 2 GPS recently changed their software
    policies

    They used to allow you to buy software and update for two of their units in
    the same base price. now it one software buy per gps unit.

    This doubled my software cost -- if the map software was of a type used in
    both GPSes.

    So depending on the service fees (needs to be reasonably low) and how well
    they keep MAPS and POI's updates. having these data "live presented on the
    device that has commnication properties like a cell phone would not be a bad
    model.


    "Steven" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:dmX%[email protected]...
    >I agree
    >
    > I would go buy -- say an iPhone with GPS and map, but the need to also add
    > an SD card for data expansion and they would need to keep the "use fees"
    > "reasonable"
    >
    > What is "reasonable varies by individual, but as noted given people
    > experience with their broadband connections at home... I would expect the
    > addtive fees for this would needs to be fairly low in terms of "end state
    > of the monthly bll" -- if the features expand much more past the current
    > cell rates and each'es charge. people simply will not bother as many will
    > say -- that features is not worth the $$
    >
    > However, I could see more uses gps and maps than watching TV on the phone.
    > as such features would include POI information to would help direct folks
    > to businesses and services
    >
    > MAPS/POI features are a good fit with a mobile Phone/Communication device
    >
    > as to media player stuff - Folks do use their phones for that too.. but to
    > me I would need the SD card expansion tp make this worth. I travel and do
    > listen to music, but more however listen to audible (audiobooks) so type
    > of media support matters to several of us..
    >
    > I played with a friends iPhone and I liked it overall, but would not buy
    > one until it has exchangable media card and would like to have the
    > GPS/MAP/POI if the sevice is not overpriced..
    >
    > as note -- I have 2 GPS'es and use them frequently. one is for the car,
    > one is for backpacking.hiking.geocaching.. both have locally loaded data.
    > Garmin tries to get 75-150 dollars a year to update the map data --
    > sometimes I buy the updates sometime I do not..
    >
    > "John Tserkezis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> Happy Trails wrote:
    >>
    >>> Go waste your money investing in it if you like - it will fizzle like
    >>> just so many dot.com companies. Of course a few will make it - make
    >>> sure you pick the right one, hahahahaha.

    >>
    >> It'll flop, but not for the reason you think.
    >>
    >> Technically, it's a feature that would sell well for those who simply
    >> must have the very latest gadget. And there's lots of those cashed-up
    >> buyers around.
    >> Not enough to support an entire cartography department within a phone
    >> company, but a respectable amount.
    >>
    >>
    >> "GPS maps on your phone" is not quite the whole story. I'll be betting
    >> that ALL of them are live data sent to the phone while you're using it.
    >> (No local storage of maps) That is, wonderful data charges every time you
    >> want to use it.
    >>
    >> This is a very lucrative deal, and can make lots of money.
    >>
    >> Till everyone works out that it is much more expensive than they first
    >> thought. Whoops. Those $700+ standalone satnav units appear a lot
    >> cheaper now, don't they.
    >>
    >>
    >> Same thing will happen as with TV on your phone here in Australia.
    >> "Watch TV on your phone" they said. "It's wonderful" they said. The 3G
    >> carriers geared up quite heavily to cope for the anticipated demand.
    >> Except it never came. Outside of the introductory cheap or free TV
    >> deals, people learned that watching TV on a 2" screen really IS a joke.
    >> Not even data has taken up the 3G left-over bandwidth, it's just too
    >> bloody expensive.
    >>
    >> As it stands now, the projected TV charges never materialised, all the
    >> carriers are in perpetual "introductory" charges mode. They figure a BIT
    >> of money is better than no money at all.
    >>
    >> So what has 3G been delegated to now? Same as all the other networks.
    >> SMS. That's big business. Has been, is now, and is likely to be.
    >>
    >>
    >> They're hoping that cartography will use all that equipment bandwidth
    >> they bought but no-one wants to use...
    >>
    >> And I don't think *this* idea will work any better than previous ideas
    >> because they're using the EXACT same pay per unit use structure as
    >> before. Past the introductory prices, it'll drop like the proverbial fly.
    >> --
    >> Linux Registered User # 302622
    >> <http://counter.li.org>

    >





  5. #5
    Happy Trails
    Guest

    Re: The paperless map is the killer app

    On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 04:16:06 -0800 (PST), Larry G
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >sure they do... how many times have you heard someone on a cell phone
    >say "where are you"? .. well NOW.. they can shoot a map with their
    >location.
    >


    And how many times have you heard someone say "oh don't show me that -
    you know I can't/won't/don't like to read maps, hahahaha.

    If a large chunk of the popultion were map readers, I agree with you.

    But they are not - and will not be - even more so - with a tiny piece
    of map displayed on a tiny cellfone screen.

    Talking on a cellphone's easy - most people understand a language.

    Reading a map is not so natural and intuitive and practised since
    babyhood - most people do not.

    Go waste your money investing in it if you like - it will fizzle like
    just so many dot.com companies. Of course a few will make it - make
    sure you pick the right one, hahahahaha.




  6. #6
    NightStalker
    Guest

    Re: The paperless map is the killer app

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected]lid says...
    >
    > "GPS maps on your phone" is not quite the whole story. I'll be betting that
    > ALL of them are live data sent to the phone while you're using it. (No local
    > storage of maps) That is, wonderful data charges every time you want to use it.
    >
    > This is a very lucrative deal, and can make lots of money.
    >
    > Till everyone works out that it is much more expensive than they first
    > thought. Whoops. Those $700+ standalone satnav units appear a lot cheaper
    > now, don't they.
    >
    >


    Not so. My Nokia N95 has maps stored in the phone (on the mini SD card)
    and they are free to download via the Nokia MapLoader software on my PC.
    For anywhere in the world. None of this TomTom/Garmin/Navman rubbish
    about paying $329 per map set for maps other than the ones that came
    with the unit.

    And with my N95, I can buy spoken navigation instructions as and when I
    need them - which is VERY rarely. In fact, I've only done it once to
    see how it works - and it works fine. I bought 1 weeks worth of voice
    navigation in New York that cost $Aus 9.95 onto my phone bill, and the
    nav worked fine. But I never really need voice navigation - I can read
    the maps on the phone along with the navigation directions that pop up
    on the screen. And if I'm driving, my wife reads them out to me - she's
    cheaper than 9.95 a week.... well not really - she buys a lot of shoes!

    I sold my Navman and now use the N95 exclusively. Been on around the
    world trips twice this year with it, to multiple countries, and it
    worked just fine everywhere.

    --

    NightStalker



  7. #7
    John Tserkezis
    Guest

    Re: The paperless map is the killer app

    NightStalker wrote:

    > Not so. My Nokia N95 has maps stored in the phone (on the mini SD card)
    > and they are free to download via the Nokia MapLoader software on my PC.


    Remember I'm in Australia, where this bleeding edge technology doesn't
    exist, and won't for some time, and there's no such thing as 'free'.

    While I'm sure the US has the market to bring the prices down to a
    reasonable level, here, price comes up to the 'not worth it' range rather quickly.

    --
    Linux Registered User # 302622
    <http://counter.li.org>



  8. #8
    Ed
    Guest

    Re: The paperless map is the killer app

    I hate to admit it, but I think you're right

    Larry G wrote:
    >
    > SEE...! told ya so... it's true a lot of folks can't read a map any
    > better than they can change a flat tire.. but they still buy paper
    > road atlases at Walmart and argue over what road they are on...
    >
    > but here's the deal.. you key in the address of your destination to
    > your phone and it barks back at you.. "take a right a Oak Street"...
    > you're in a strange place... and voila.. it's "magic"....
    >
    > so... see.. you're a young guy/gal and you gotta get a cell phone and
    > you're looking at two models and one of them has GPS Maps and the
    > other does not and the cost is close... it's no contest guys...
    >
    > and it's not even that hard.. if you send GOOGLE your destination
    > address and it can "see" your lat/long... it can send you turn by turn
    > directions...
    >
    > It's like getting two dogs and a coke for the price of the coke.. who
    > turns down the free dogs?
    >
    > stand alone GPS units are going to become the 21st century 8-track
    > players..
    >
    > :-)




  9. #9
    Larry
    Guest

    Re: The paperless map is the killer app

    Larry G <[email protected]> wrote in news:9b588dbd-1270-42f9-
    [email protected]:

    >:-)
    >


    You guys look at youtube.com and search on Maemo Mapper, the
    portable Google Earth for the Nokia N800 Linux tablet. The new
    N810 tablet has a built-in GPS, but I prefer the Nokia N800's
    bluetooth GPS because I can watch the tablet within 30' of the
    receiver, but DON'T have to leave the tablet with a clear view of
    the sky to get accurate tracking. It will place the car in the
    exact lane its in or parking space the car occupies with the
    WAAS-corrected, 12-channel tiny GPS puck. Drop it in your pocket
    and carry the tablet while walking around works great, too! You
    can preload the data to the SD card, or if you have a wifi or BT-
    to-sellphone data link, Maemo Mapper will automatically get the
    right picture for your resolution on-the-fly.

    Oh, and it's all FREE, once you own the hardware (about $425 for
    both the N800 and GPS kit, which includes Navicore commercial
    street software and a really NICE windshield N800 mount.

    You don't need to pay these SELLphone thieves by the month....

    Larry
    --
    Xterm IS the ultimate video game...(c;



  10. #10
    NightStalker
    Guest

    Re: The paperless map is the killer app

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected]lid says...
    >
    > Remember I'm in Australia, where this bleeding edge technology doesn't
    > exist, and won't for some time, and there's no such thing as 'free'.
    >
    > While I'm sure the US has the market to bring the prices down to a
    > reasonable level, here, price comes up to the 'not worth it' range rather quickly.
    >
    >


    I'm in Australia too. Nokia N95 phones are widely available - I bought
    mine in April when they first came to Australia, and just upgraded to
    the newer NextG version of the same phone at the local Telstra shop here
    in Brisbane.

    So yes - the "bleeding edge technology" is well and truly here in
    Australia, and yes, there is such a thing as free - all the maps for my
    two round-the-world trips were free downloads from the Nokia site via
    MapLoader software. Once you've paid for the phone, they are all free.
    And the phone itself is "free" on some plans too (yes, I know you pay
    for the phone via the plan over time).


    --

    NightStalker



  11. #11
    John Tserkezis
    Guest

    Re: The paperless map is the killer app

    NightStalker wrote:

    > So yes - the "bleeding edge technology" is well and truly here in
    > Australia, and yes, there is such a thing as free - all the maps for my
    > two round-the-world trips were free downloads from the Nokia site via
    > MapLoader software. Once you've paid for the phone, they are all free.


    Not an introductory offer is it?
    --
    Linux Registered User # 302622
    <http://counter.li.org>




  12. #12
    NightStalker
    Guest

    Re: The paperless map is the killer app

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected]lid says...
    > NightStalker wrote:
    >
    > > So yes - the "bleeding edge technology" is well and truly here in
    > > Australia, and yes, there is such a thing as free - all the maps for my
    > > two round-the-world trips were free downloads from the Nokia site via
    > > MapLoader software. Once you've paid for the phone, they are all free.

    >
    > Not an introductory offer is it?
    >


    Nope - standard deal. The phone to buy outright is about a grand, but
    the cost on various plans will depend on the plan, obviously. Check at
    the Telstra shop, or if you don't need the NextG version of the phone,
    check it out at:

    www.mobileselect.com.au

    And the maps really are free, and will remain so. That's Nokia's
    marketing edge over the dedicated GPS units.

    The only downside is that the phone/GPS doesn't have the SIRFStar III
    chipset built in like a dedicated GPS unit does. The original N95 was
    VERY slow to lock onto the satellites to get a fix. But a firmware
    update has fixed that, and I now get a lock in about 10-15 seconds.

    The NextG version of the phone also uses an assisted GPS mode whereby it
    triangulates your position from the cell towers (with minimal data
    transmission - it's mainly in receive mode) then works out from its
    built-in almanac what satellites it SHOULD be seeing and locks on very
    fast.

    It all works surprisingly well really

    --

    NightStalker



  13. #13
    John Tserkezis
    Guest

    Re: The paperless map is the killer app

    NightStalker wrote:

    > It all works surprisingly well really


    You've shown me that we are indeed getting closer to what I think Joe Blow
    wants, but it won't convince me. (but I'm a special case).

    Keep in mind, I started when the only 'commercial' option regarding GPS was
    either Garmin or Magellan (and perhaps a couple more brands less popular in
    the domestic market) and your only options for maps were monochrome vector for
    limited parts of the planet. Roll your own maps for areas not already
    covered? Forget it.

    I had a specific set of features in mind that were mandatory, which in my
    case, brought the choice down to either Fugawi or Oziexplorer. In both cases,
    I would have had to sort out mapping data myself. Manually. At that stage,
    as far as GPS navigation went, there was NOTHING available for Australia
    (officially anyway).

    Today, with the plethora of choices, my choice would still be either Fugawi
    or Oziexplorer. I've clearly been spoiled.

    I'm well aware that my choice certainly doesn't appeal to the masses, I've
    (nearly) convinced several friends to go to Oziexplorer (they seemed very
    interested in my box), however, all of them eventually went down the NavMan,
    TomTom etc path. Simplicity was the name of the game for them. Distinct lack
    of features was a minor side point, because they didn't perceive a lot of
    those features as useful for them. Each to their own.
    --
    Linux Registered User # 302622
    <http://counter.li.org>



  14. #14
    NightStalker
    Guest

    Re: The paperless map is the killer app

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected]lid says...
    >
    > Today, with the plethora of choices, my choice would still be either Fugawi
    > or Oziexplorer. I've clearly been spoiled.
    >
    > I'm well aware that my choice certainly doesn't appeal to the masses, I've
    > (nearly) convinced several friends to go to Oziexplorer (they seemed very
    > interested in my box), however, all of them eventually went down the NavMan,
    > TomTom etc path. Simplicity was the name of the game for them. Distinct lack
    > of features was a minor side point, because they didn't perceive a lot of
    > those features as useful for them. Each to their own.
    >
    >


    Depends on what you want the unit for though. I actually do have
    another dedicated GPS unit - it's a Magellan Meridian Colour unit with
    topo mapping of the whole of Australia. It's a handheld unit that has
    every creek, water channel, and sizeable drain on it, as well as every
    dirt road or walking track you could wish for, plus every little lake
    and tarn, and full contour mapping. That's the one I use for out in the
    bush, either off-road driving, or bushwalking and camping.

    The Nokia/TomTom/Navman etc are more for city driving or walking, and
    city/town street navigation. Definitely NOT for bushwalking - just has
    blank screens for anything off the beaten track.

    The Magellan is waterproof, rubber-coated and tough as nails, and built
    to milspec. Have had it for a few years, and it has been great. Still
    is.

    But it doesn't do street navigation, voice nav, etc etc. Different
    beast altogether.

    Horses for courses, as they say...

    --

    NightStalker



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