Premium content charges

I changed to a Telstra NextG phone in March 2008 from a CDMA phone. I
kept the same number of course but I requested a business plan this
time. In my first monthly account I had ten items in a section called
"Separate Purchases" from provider SOLMOB and the service was
MMFWCONT104MT, each instance charged at $6.60 inc GST. The provider is
Sol Mobile which no longer exists since March 1, 2005.

I'll give you an example of an unsolicited SMS that they charge $6.60
for :- "Going with the flow will offer the easier route, but
independent thought is by far the preferable option". Telstra is
complicit in this theft because they include the charge for the items
in your phone bill. If you have a prepaid it just comes off the
pre-paid amount without even a statement to allow you to find out where
your money went.

I'm still resolving the problem with Telstra but the company (Mobile
Messenger Technology of Lvl 1, 225 Miller St North Sydney Tel.
0299003600) who runs this fraudulent scam is making a killing. Their
web site is http://www.mobilemessenger.com/news01mar.html and they are
one of the fastest growing companies in Australia and now taking their
thieving system into the US. If you don't check your account thoroughly
you could be lining the pockets of white collar criminals. Their
turnover is over $50m!! Even if alert mobile users get the charges
reimbursed, the bastards get away with the money of people who do not
realise they have been robbed. Elderly and disabled users are at their
mercy and the amounts they steal can be substantial.


--
Tradein
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

---

› See More: Premium content charges

"Tradein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I changed to a Telstra NextG phone in March 2008 from a CDMA phone. I
> kept the same number of course but I requested a business plan this
> time. In my first monthly account I had ten items in a section called
> "Separate Purchases" from provider SOLMOB and the service was
> MMFWCONT104MT, each instance charged at $6.60 inc GST. The provider is
> Sol Mobile which no longer exists since March 1, 2005.

They still exist - how else could you be charged?

> I'll give you an example of an unsolicited SMS that they charge $6.60
> for :- "Going with the flow will offer the easier route, but
> independent thought is by far the preferable option". Telstra is
> complicit in this theft because they include the charge for the items
> in your phone bill. If you have a prepaid it just comes off the
> pre-paid amount without even a statement to allow you to find out where
> your money went.

Thats the idea, of prepaid, mate.

> I'm still resolving the problem with Telstra but the company (Mobile

Not a Telstra issue. Youve subscribed to content yourself.

You have their details (SOLMOB) and they will work it out with you

On Wed, 14 May 2008 21:43:05 +0000, Michael wrote:

>
> "Tradein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> I changed to a Telstra NextG phone in March 2008 from a CDMA phone. I
>> kept the same number of course but I requested a business plan this
>> time. In my first monthly account I had ten items in a section called
>> "Separate Purchases" from provider SOLMOB and the service was
>> MMFWCONT104MT, each instance charged at $6.60 inc GST. The provider is
>> Sol Mobile which no longer exists since March 1, 2005.
>
> They still exist - how else could you be charged?
>
>> I'll give you an example of an unsolicited SMS that they charge $6.60
>> for :- "Going with the flow will offer the easier route, but
>> independent thought is by far the preferable option". Telstra is
>> complicit in this theft because they include the charge for the items
>> in your phone bill. If you have a prepaid it just comes off the
>> pre-paid amount without even a statement to allow you to find out where
>> your money went.
>
> Thats the idea, of prepaid, mate.
>
>> I'm still resolving the problem with Telstra but the company (Mobile
>
> Not a Telstra issue.

It is a Telstra issue. Telstra's the one billing him. At the very least,
Telstra should be able to provide him with details of when/how he
subscribed to the service.


> Youve subscribed to content yourself.

Even assuming the "premium" SMS wasn't completely unsolicited, it's
difficult to imagine anyone would knowingly sign up to receive fortune
cookie quotations at $6.60 each.


> You have their details (SOLMOB) and they will work it out with you

Were I in a similar situation, I'd ignore "SOLMOB" and dispute the amount
on my Telstra bill. The mobile phone companies (not just Telstra) seem
too eager to fob their customers off.

When you dispute a charge on your credit card account, the bank
investigates. The same should apply (and does apply, if you push the
issue) to telcos and their "premium SMS".

"Horry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 14 May 2008 21:43:05 +0000, Michael wrote:
>
>>
>> "Tradein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> I changed to a Telstra NextG phone in March 2008 from a CDMA phone. I
>>> kept the same number of course but I requested a business plan this
>>> time. In my first monthly account I had ten items in a section called
>>> "Separate Purchases" from provider SOLMOB and the service was
>>> MMFWCONT104MT, each instance charged at $6.60 inc GST. The provider is
>>> Sol Mobile which no longer exists since March 1, 2005.
>>
>> They still exist - how else could you be charged?
>>
>>> I'll give you an example of an unsolicited SMS that they charge $6.60
>>> for :- "Going with the flow will offer the easier route, but
>>> independent thought is by far the preferable option". Telstra is
>>> complicit in this theft because they include the charge for the items
>>> in your phone bill. If you have a prepaid it just comes off the
>>> pre-paid amount without even a statement to allow you to find out where
>>> your money went.
>>
>> Thats the idea, of prepaid, mate.
>>
>>> I'm still resolving the problem with Telstra but the company (Mobile
>>
>> Not a Telstra issue.
>
> It is a Telstra issue.

Yep.

> Telstra's the one billing him.

Yep. And Mikey has been told this a number of times but still can't get it
through his thick head.

> At the very least,
> Telstra should be able to provide him with details of when/how he
> subscribed to the service.

And their legal obligation goes much further than that.

--
Kwyj.

>>> I'm still resolving the problem with Telstra but the company (Mobile
>>
>> Not a Telstra issue.
>
> It is a Telstra issue. Telstra's the one billing him. At the very least,
> Telstra should be able to provide him with details of when/how he
> subscribed to the service.

Telstra dont keep those details, only the content provider does. Thats why
your carrier gives you the contact number, name and ABN of the content
provider, so you can call them

>> Youve subscribed to content yourself.
>
> Even assuming the "premium" SMS wasn't completely unsolicited, it's
> difficult to imagine anyone would knowingly sign up to receive fortune
> cookie quotations at $6.60 each.

Were you born yesterday?

There is a ****wit born every minute

> When you dispute a charge on your credit card account, the bank
> investigates. The same should apply (and does apply, if you push the
> issue) to telcos and their "premium SMS".

Whether you think it should apply or not, is irrelevant. It doesnt work like
that in telco land
>
>

"Michael" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>>> I'm still resolving the problem with Telstra but the company (Mobile
>>>
>>> Not a Telstra issue.
>>
>> It is a Telstra issue. Telstra's the one billing him. At the very
>> least,
>> Telstra should be able to provide him with details of when/how he
>> subscribed to the service.
>
> Telstra dont keep those details, only the content provider does.

Irrelevant to who's billing him and who has to be able to justify those
charges.

> Thats why your carrier gives you the contact number, name and ABN of the
> content provider, so you can call them

Wrong. It's up to TELSTRA to do the running around, as they are the ones
issuing the bill.

>>> Youve subscribed to content yourself.
>>
>> Even assuming the "premium" SMS wasn't completely unsolicited, it's
>> difficult to imagine anyone would knowingly sign up to receive fortune
>> cookie quotations at $6.60 each.
>
> Were you born yesterday?
>
> There is a ****wit born every minute

You're living proof of that.

>
>> When you dispute a charge on your credit card account, the bank
>> investigates. The same should apply (and does apply, if you push the
>> issue) to telcos and their "premium SMS".
>
> Whether you think it should apply or not, is irrelevant. It doesnt work
> like that in telco land

Yep - There really is a ****wit born every minute. The TPA applies to telcos
the same as it applies to every other corporation.

--
Kwyj.

On Fri, 16 May 2008 08:36:26 +0000, Michael wrote:

>>>> I'm still resolving the problem with Telstra but the company (Mobile
>>>
>>> Not a Telstra issue.
>>
>> It is a Telstra issue. Telstra's the one billing him. At the very
>> least, Telstra should be able to provide him with details of when/how
>> he subscribed to the service.
>
> Telstra dont keep those details, only the content provider does. Thats
> why your carrier gives you the contact number, name and ABN of the
> content provider, so you can call them

It's fairly stupid for Telstra not to keep those details. If the OP
didn't in fact sign up for the service, he's under no obligation to
contact SOLMOB at all.

Telstra's the one who has to have to prove the legitimacy of these debts
when/if these matters ever reach the TIO or the courts.


>>> Youve subscribed to content yourself.
>>
>> Even assuming the "premium" SMS wasn't completely unsolicited, it's
>> difficult to imagine anyone would knowingly sign up to receive fortune
>> cookie quotations at $6.60 each.
>
> Were you born yesterday?
>
> There is a ****wit born every minute

Are you suggesting that people DO knowingly sign up for to receive fortune
cookie quotations at $6.60 each, and are for that reason ****wits?

Or that they're ****wits for being so easily conned?


>> When you dispute a charge on your credit card account, the bank
>> investigates. The same should apply (and does apply, if you push the
>> issue) to telcos and their "premium SMS".
>
> Whether you think it should apply or not, is irrelevant. It doesnt work
> like that in telco land

The law works that way in telco land, whether the inhabitants like it or
not.

"Tradein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I changed to a Telstra NextG phone in March 2008 from a CDMA phone. I
> kept the same number of course but I requested a business plan this
> time. In my first monthly account I had ten items in a section called
> "Separate Purchases" from provider SOLMOB and the service was
> MMFWCONT104MT, each instance charged at $6.60 inc GST. The provider is
> Sol Mobile which no longer exists since March 1, 2005.
>
> I'll give you an example of an unsolicited SMS that they charge $6.60
> for :- "Going with the flow will offer the easier route, but
> independent thought is by far the preferable option". Telstra is
> complicit in this theft because they include the charge for the items
> in your phone bill. If you have a prepaid it just comes off the
> pre-paid amount without even a statement to allow you to find out where
> your money went.
>
> I'm still resolving the problem with Telstra but the company (Mobile
> Messenger Technology of Lvl 1, 225 Miller St North Sydney Tel.
> 0299003600) who runs this fraudulent scam is making a killing. Their
> web site is http://www.mobilemessenger.com/news01mar.html and they are
> one of the fastest growing companies in Australia and now taking their
> thieving system into the US. If you don't check your account thoroughly
> you could be lining the pockets of white collar criminals. Their
> turnover is over $50m!! Even if alert mobile users get the charges
> reimbursed, the bastards get away with the money of people who do not
> realise they have been robbed. Elderly and disabled users are at their
> mercy and the amounts they steal can be substantial.
>
>
> --
> Tradein
> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


I had the same happened to me. Rang Telstra and accused them of basically
been a "pimp". Told them that without their complicity scam artists like
this couldnt survive. Didnt even bother asking for my money back just told
them to close my mobile account straight away. Of course they couldnt close
my account and transferred me to someone else and I again vented my spleen
and closed my account.

>>> It is a Telstra issue. Telstra's the one billing him. At the very
>>> least, Telstra should be able to provide him with details of when/how
>>> he subscribed to the service.
>>
>> Telstra dont keep those details, only the content provider does. Thats
>> why your carrier gives you the contact number, name and ABN of the
>> content provider, so you can call them
>
> It's fairly stupid for Telstra not to keep those details. If the OP

How on earth is any carrier actually able to keep those details?

They can and do keep details of who you SMS, but they dont keep details of
the content of the SMS

> didn't in fact sign up for the service, he's under no obligation to
> contact SOLMOB at all.

And then there is the real world.

You think 3rd party charging on all networks is illegal or legally
untenable?

>>>> Youve subscribed to content yourself.
>>>
>>> Even assuming the "premium" SMS wasn't completely unsolicited, it's
>>> difficult to imagine anyone would knowingly sign up to receive fortune
>>> cookie quotations at $6.60 each.
>>
>> Were you born yesterday?
>>
>> There is a ****wit born every minute
>
> Are you suggesting that people DO knowingly sign up for to receive fortune
> cookie quotations at $6.60 each, and are for that reason ****wits?

Yes

Horry wrote...

> When you dispute a charge on your credit card account, the bank
> investigates. The same should apply (and does apply, if you push the
> issue) to telcos and their "premium SMS".

Isn't this the purpose of the TIO?

There is also a mob that supposedly deals with issues arising from the likes of
premium number services. I forget what it's called but when I was on dialup, I
got attacked by a virus or trojan or whatever it was that installed a dialer on
the PC that forced the modem to dial a 1900 number. I managed to pull the pin on
the modem but not quick enough to cop a $5 charge. I managed to trace it to one
particular mob and I wrote to the TIO and Telstra to lodge a complaint when the
charge arrived on my next phone bill.

TIO told me to talk to this mob that covers these types of services. I filled
out all the info and sent it off. That was the last I ever heard of it. No
refunds were forthcoming and in the end I couldn't be ****ed chasing down a
pissy $5 charge.

But then, perhaps that's how these mobs make their dough.

Snapper <[email protected]> wrote
> Horry wrote

>> When you dispute a charge on your credit card account,
>> the bank investigates. The same should apply (and does
>> apply, if you push the issue) to telcos and their "premium SMS".

> Isn't this the purpose of the TIO?

Nope, the TIO only has a role when the telco ****s up.

> There is also a mob that supposedly deals with issues arising from
> the likes of premium number services. I forget what it's called but
> when I was on dialup, I got attacked by a virus or trojan or whatever
> it was that installed a dialer on the PC that forced the modem to
> dial a 1900 number. I managed to pull the pin on the modem but
> not quick enough to cop a $5 charge. I managed to trace it to
> one particular mob and I wrote to the TIO and Telstra to lodge
> a complaint when the charge arrived on my next phone bill.

> TIO told me to talk to this mob that covers these types of
> services. I filled out all the info and sent it off. That was the
> last I ever heard of it. No refunds were forthcoming and in
> the end I couldn't be ****ed chasing down a pissy $5 charge.

> But then, perhaps that's how these mobs make their dough.

"Michael" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>>> It is a Telstra issue. Telstra's the one billing him. At the very
>>>> least, Telstra should be able to provide him with details of when/how
>>>> he subscribed to the service.
>>>
>>> Telstra dont keep those details, only the content provider does. Thats
>>> why your carrier gives you the contact number, name and ABN of the
>>> content provider, so you can call them
>>
>> It's fairly stupid for Telstra not to keep those details. If the OP
>
> How on earth is any carrier actually able to keep those details?
>

They should consider that before entering into commercial arrangements that
require them to pass third party charges to their customers.

> They can and do keep details of who you SMS, but they dont keep details of
> the content of the SMS

Which is irrelevant to the fact that Telstra have to justify those charges.

>> didn't in fact sign up for the service, he's under no obligation to
>> contact SOLMOB at all.
>
> And then there is the real world.

And real world legal requirements. You seem to conveniently forget
those........

> You think 3rd party charging on all networks is illegal or legally
> untenable?

Nope. Not as long as Telstra can fully explain everything that they print on
their bills.

--
Kwyj.

On Sun, 18 May 2008 13:08:00 +0000, Michael wrote:

>>>> It is a Telstra issue. Telstra's the one billing him. At the very
>>>> least, Telstra should be able to provide him with details of when/how
>>>> he subscribed to the service.
>>>
>>> Telstra dont keep those details, only the content provider does. Thats
>>> why your carrier gives you the contact number, name and ABN of the
>>> content provider, so you can call them
>>
>> It's fairly stupid for Telstra not to keep those details. If the OP
>
> How on earth is any carrier actually able to keep those details?
>
> They can and do keep details of who you SMS, but they dont keep details of
> the content of the SMS

Then the Telstra gets to (1) wear the cost of challenged premium
SMSs; (2) recover from SOLMOB the cost of challenged premium SMSs; or (3)
contact SOLMOB itself and obtain the information required to
justify the premium SMS charges.


>> didn't in fact sign up for the service, he's under no obligation to
>> contact SOLMOB at all.
>
> And then there is the real world.
>
> You think 3rd party charging on all networks is illegal or legally
> untenable?

No. But if the customer challenges the charges, Telstra needs to be able
to prove that the service was requested. It can do that by obtaining the
necessary evidence from SOLMOB.


>>>>> Youve subscribed to content yourself.
>>>>
>>>> Even assuming the "premium" SMS wasn't completely unsolicited, it's
>>>> difficult to imagine anyone would knowingly sign up to receive fortune
>>>> cookie quotations at $6.60 each.
>>>
>>> Were you born yesterday?
>>>
>>> There is a ****wit born every minute
>>
>> Are you suggesting that people DO knowingly sign up for to receive fortune
>> cookie quotations at $6.60 each, and are for that reason ****wits?
>
> Yes

Plainly, the OP doesn't fall into that category.

At worst, he accidentally signed up for the 'service' without
realizing that he was doing so.

>> You think 3rd party charging on all networks is illegal or legally
>> untenable?
>
> Nope. Not as long as Telstra can fully explain everything that they print
> on their bills.

Telstra can explain it, by supplying you with the ABN, name, and contact
number of the company that supplied the charge. They might even be nice
enough to put you through, if you ask nicely.
>
> --
> Kwyj.
>

>>> It's fairly stupid for Telstra not to keep those details. If the OP
>>
>> How on earth is any carrier actually able to keep those details?
>>
>> They can and do keep details of who you SMS, but they dont keep details
>> of
>> the content of the SMS
>
> Then the Telstra gets to (1) wear the cost of challenged premium
> SMSs; (2) recover from SOLMOB the cost of challenged premium SMSs; or (3)
> contact SOLMOB itself and obtain the information required to
> justify the premium SMS charges.

Or you can just avoid beating round the bush by the customer calling them
direct.

>>> didn't in fact sign up for the service, he's under no obligation to
>>> contact SOLMOB at all.
>>
>> And then there is the real world.
>>
>> You think 3rd party charging on all networks is illegal or legally
>> untenable?
>
> No. But if the customer challenges the charges, Telstra needs to be able
> to prove that the service was requested. It can do that by obtaining the

Which they can do by getting the customer to request the info from SOLMOB

>>>> There is a ****wit born every minute
>>>
>>> Are you suggesting that people DO knowingly sign up for to receive
>>> fortune
>>> cookie quotations at $6.60 each, and are for that reason ****wits?
>>
>> Yes
>
> Plainly, the OP doesn't fall into that category.

The OP *claims* not to fall into that category. How do you know it isnt a
son or daughter or someone else?

Used to remind me of when I knew colleagues who worked in a call centre.
Father swore black and blue that no one in the house made those calls to
1900 sex lines. Oh hang on, he will just check with his 14-year old son . .
.. then he'd get off the phone saying "ill sort it out in the family"

Just because the op physically didnt make the charge himself, doesnt mean
someone didnt with access to the service

> At worst, he accidentally signed up for the 'service' without
> realizing that he was doing so.

Which is fine. And if he wants further details he just needs to make a call
to SOLMOB. 25c call.