Results 61 to 75 of 208
- 07-31-2005, 05:20 PM #61LarryGuest
Re: Move to keep Analog Cell Phones
John Navas <[email protected]> wrote in
news:OlaHe.6662$p%[email protected]:
> So far this has only been laboratory simulation. However the idea was
> recently tested in America over a 100 kilometre link, but using a
> different radio frequency (the PCS band of 1.9GHz).
> ...
>
>
What difference does all this mean? A 150mw, 800 Mhz transmitter has a
range of 4-5 miles, less if there's anything in the way like PINE TREES,
nature's natural dummy load/attenuator. 1900 Mhz has a range of 2 miles or
the first tree it comes to.
50 miles on CDMA? What the hell are they running, a 50 watt linear and
100' tower-mounted beam? It's sure not a 150mw Chinese toyphone with a
little plastic antenna, no matter what modulation scheme is on it.
Cellular propagation isn't magic.
--
Larry
› See More: Move to keep Analog Cell Phones
- 07-31-2005, 05:23 PM #62LarryGuest
Re: Move to keep Analog Cell Phones
George <[email protected]> wrote in news:fb-dnSUhh-wJtXDfRVn-
[email protected]:
> But that arguement is an old one and not valid today. At one time it
> made sense to subsidize farmers and others so they could could use
> electricity to refrigerate the milk or have lights in the barn but the
> farms have been replaced by Mcmansions and gated community housing
> developments.
>
You need to get out of that block of apartments and find out where your
food chain comes from. Hint - It's NOT Wall Street.
Dave is right on with his post.
(Oh, Large Shrimp is $2/pound, heads-on, coming off the boats...(c
--
Larry
- 07-31-2005, 05:49 PM #63LarryGuest
Re: range, was: Move to keep Analog Cell Phones
John Navas <[email protected]> wrote in
news:b37He.6627$p%[email protected]:
> The critical issue there is height above the water. Otherwise the
> signal would be blocked by the curvature of the earth. It's why
> lighthouses need to be tall.
>
Mast is 55' up. Sailboat.
NO boat should go offshore without a registered 406 Mhz GPS-enabled
EPIRB....we don't. Accuracy of the fix is 1 meter...
If you're interested in marine technology, go to Google and search on AIS,
the new digital VHF Automatic Identification System that's already
implemented on 300+ gross tons ships. Unlike Radar, it shows you who he
is, where he is (exactly from GPS), his
course/speed/destination/ETA/radio call/ship
name/length/width/draft/MMSI for your GMDSS/everything but the first mate's
underwear size. Check it out...
http://emmel.alfahosting.org/english/receiver_en.htm
http://www.acrelectronics.com/global...obalwatch.html
http://www.panbo.com/
http://www.sinequanonth.co.za/tbs.htm
Shore-based transponders and repeaters will soon be transmitting data
streams to put navigation markers/bouys/obstructions on AIS displays across
their service areas. Truly amazing technology. In a waterway, unlike
line-of-sight radar, you can "see" around the bend what ships/boats are
around there. I'm monitoring it here and you can see it on the net at:
http://aisfree.aislive.com/Influx.aspx
http://emit.demon.co.uk/webcam/map.php
http://www.navcom.no/aislive/
Ah, I see "Highland Navigator" has just left Bergen Harbour, Norway...(c;
--
Larry
- 07-31-2005, 05:53 PM #64The Ghost of General LeeGuest
Re: Move to keep Analog Cell Phones
On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 19:16:57 -0400, Larry <[email protected]> wrote:
>Notice
>his rural road gets paved every few years when your city street looks like
>Beirut's? Wonder why that is? HIS congressman only represents 24000
>people in that huge district.
Well, I'll be damned. You are just as ignorant about Congressional
apportionment as you are about so many other issues. Districts are
drawn according to census counts, not land size.
There is *NO* congressional district in this country that only has
24,000 people. Not even 240,000. The average is somewhere around
645,000. The smallest is probably Wyoming at around 500,000.
Here's a clue:
http://www.census.gov/population/cen2000/tab01.txt
Enjoy.
- 07-31-2005, 06:04 PM #65HighGuest
Re: Move to keep Analog Cell Phones
Larry wrote:
> George <[email protected]> wrote in news:fb-dnSUhh-wJtXDfRVn-
> [email protected]:
>
>
>>But that arguement is an old one and not valid today. At one time it
>>made sense to subsidize farmers and others so they could could use
>>electricity to refrigerate the milk or have lights in the barn but the
>>farms have been replaced by Mcmansions and gated community housing
>>developments.
>>
>
>
> You need to get out of that block of apartments and find out where your
> food chain comes from. Hint - It's NOT Wall Street.
>
I agree, city people don't have a clue. THEY SUCK!
- 07-31-2005, 06:57 PM #66Bob ScheurleGuest
Re: Move to keep Analog Cell Phones
On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 20:17:50 GMT, John Navas <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>In <[email protected]> on Sun, 31 Jul 2005 18:49:22
>GMT, Bob Scheurle <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 17:19:28 GMT, John Navas <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>>The only real inherent distance limitation in CDMA is signal power (given
>>>suitable terrain). Given the right base station, 3 watt device power, and a
>>>suitable device antenna, range of 50-80 miles is possible.
>>
>>I believe you are incorrect; propagation delays limit CDMA to about
>>35 miles.
>
><http://www.abc.net.au/http/sfist/cdma.htm>:
>[snip]
> In the US, where analog remains to fill in the long-range coverage
> requirements of Nevada, Arizona, Colorado, Texas, etc. a CDMA window
> corresponding to 57 kilometres is deemed to be adequate.
Like I said, about 35 miles. (57 km * .62 = 35 mi)
Now what was your comment about 50-80 miles? No matter how much
power and what kind of antenna you have, CMDA in the US won't work
past 35 miles because the phones won't look for the signal.
--
Bob Scheurle | "There's nobody getting
[email protected] | rich writing software."
Remove X's and dashes | -- Bill Gates, March 1980
- 07-31-2005, 07:00 PM #67MutlleyGuest
Re: Move to keep Analog Cell Phones
John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
><http://www.abc.net.au/http/sfist/cdma.htm>:
>
> ...
> The theoretical limit of CDMA is set by a key signal-processing chip
> in the base-station which has the job of searching incoming signals
> for codes from the surrounding handsets. Radio signals take a finite
> time to travel distance, and so there's always a round-trip delay in
> signals reaching handsets and returning to the base-station.
>
> The expected maximum delay is known as the 'search-window', and the
> chip is programmed to search only during this time for the individual
> handset codes. The less time the signal processor spends searching,
> the better, because it has other things to do in processing the
> codes.
>
> In the US, where analog remains to fill in the long-range coverage
> requirements of Nevada, Arizona, Colorado, Texas, etc. a CDMA window
> corresponding to 57 kilometres is deemed to be adequate. But not for
> Australia where AMPS must disappear.
>
> What Nortel (the Telstra contractor) proposes to do here is to add
> extra chips (up to three) in their base-stations, each designed to
> hunt for incoming codes in a series of delayed search-windows. They
> hope, therefore, to have base-stations which can handle signals from
> transmitters up to 200 kilometres away.
>
> So far this has only been laboratory simulation. However the idea was
> recently tested in America over a 100 kilometre link, but using a
> different radio frequency (the PCS band of 1.9GHz).
> ...
That's rather an old link John. 1999. Though I believe that CDMA in
Oz has a range of about 75Km
- 07-31-2005, 07:01 PM #68Bob ScheurleGuest
Re: Move to keep Analog Cell Phones
On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 19:20:43 -0400, Larry <[email protected]> wrote:
>What difference does all this mean? A 150mw, 800 Mhz transmitter has a
>range of 4-5 miles, less if there's anything in the way like PINE TREES,
>nature's natural dummy load/attenuator. 1900 Mhz has a range of 2 miles or
>the first tree it comes to.
>
>50 miles on CDMA? What the hell are they running, a 50 watt linear and
>100' tower-mounted beam? It's sure not a 150mw Chinese toyphone with a
>little plastic antenna, no matter what modulation scheme is on it.
>Cellular propagation isn't magic.
I made a call at approx 50 miles with a 600 mW analog phone with a little
antenna in April. I was on top of a 10,000 foot mountain on Maui, and
the cell site was 50 miles away on the big island of Hawaii.
--
Bob Scheurle | "There's nobody getting
[email protected] | rich writing software."
Remove X's and dashes | -- Bill Gates, March 1980
- 07-31-2005, 07:09 PM #69Bob ScheurleGuest
Re: range, was: Move to keep Analog Cell Phones
On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 20:34:53 GMT, John Navas <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>>>
>>>> I believe the maximum range for CDMA is about 35 miles.
>>>
>>>CDMA's range is limited only by the signal strength between the phone and
>>>the closest tower. Some users have reported ranges over 50 miles.
>>
>>No, it's not that simple. There are issues relating to the chip timing.
>>I can't even begin to explain it, but see
>>http://www.howcdmaworks.com/intro/132v3.pdf pages 95-97. I believe the
>>table on page 96 goes up to the maximum distance for the CDMA system
>>currently used, 34.3 miles (55.2 km).
>
>Telstra Will Deploy First to Help Meet Australia's Unique Rural Coverage Needs
But we're talking about the United States.
- 07-31-2005, 07:32 PM #70John NavasGuest
Re: Move to keep Analog Cell Phones
[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
In <[email protected]> on Sun, 31 Jul 2005 19:16:57 -0400,
Larry <[email protected]> wrote:
>Jer <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
>> They're convinced they don't need it and they're never gonna buy
>> anything they can't use, and there's a bunch of folks out there just
>> like them.
>
>Millions like them....even in the cities.
>
>One thing overlooked here is the POWER the man you describe has. Notice
>his rural road gets paved every few years when your city street looks like
>Beirut's? ...
Hardly.
>AMPS will be on the air for a long time, ...
I seriously doubt it.
--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>
- 07-31-2005, 07:36 PM #71John NavasGuest
Re: Move to keep Analog Cell Phones
[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
In <[email protected]> on Sun, 31 Jul 2005 19:20:43 -0400,
Larry <[email protected]> wrote:
>John Navas <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:OlaHe.6662$p%[email protected]:
>
>> So far this has only been laboratory simulation. However the idea was
>> recently tested in America over a 100 kilometre link, but using a
>> different radio frequency (the PCS band of 1.9GHz).
>> ...
>
>What difference does all this mean? A 150mw, 800 Mhz transmitter has a
>range of 4-5 miles, less if there's anything in the way like PINE TREES,
>nature's natural dummy load/attenuator. 1900 Mhz has a range of 2 miles or
>the first tree it comes to.
Nonsense. My GSM 1900 phone routinely works at distances of 12-15 miles.
>50 miles on CDMA? What the hell are they running, a 50 watt linear and
>100' tower-mounted beam? It's sure not a 150mw Chinese toyphone with a
>little plastic antenna, no matter what modulation scheme is on it.
>Cellular propagation isn't magic.
You're misinformed on this too -- Nortel's CDMA "Boomer" Cell works with
standard CDMA handsets, and is field-proven. This release is *six* years old:
<http://www.nortelnetworks.com/corporate/news/newsreleases/1999c/8_5_9999287_Boomer.html>
August 5, 1999
Nortel Networks Extended Range CDMA "Boomer" Cell Ready for Prime Time
Telstra Will Deploy First to Help Meet Australia's Unique Rural Coverage Needs
DALLAS - Nortel Networks* [NYSE/TSE: NT] announced commercial availability of
the industry's longest-range 800 MHz cdmaOne* base station - the Nortel
Networks CDMA Rural Cell.
Designed to improve the economics of rural digital cellular service, the
Nortel Networks CDMA Rural Cell can provide a coverage radius up to 180
kilometers under suitable conditions, more than 10 times the range of a
typical CDMA base station.
Nicknamed "Boomer" Cell, this pioneering technology was first demonstrated in
March at Nortel Networks' Wireless Solutions lab in Ottawa, Ontario. Recent
field trials with Telstra in Australia have achieved coverage in excess of 120
kilometers on land and 130 kilometers for marine service under typical
conditions, using standard CDMA handsets and car kits.
[MORE]
--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>
- 07-31-2005, 07:40 PM #72John NavasGuest
Re: Move to keep Analog Cell Phones
[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
In <[email protected]> on Mon, 01 Aug 2005 00:57:52
GMT, Bob Scheurle <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 20:17:50 GMT, John Navas <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>>
>>In <[email protected]> on Sun, 31 Jul 2005 18:49:22
>>GMT, Bob Scheurle <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>I believe you are incorrect; propagation delays limit CDMA to about
>>>35 miles.
>>
>><http://www.abc.net.au/http/sfist/cdma.htm>:
>>[snip]
>> In the US, where analog remains to fill in the long-range coverage
>> requirements of Nevada, Arizona, Colorado, Texas, etc. a CDMA window
>> corresponding to 57 kilometres is deemed to be adequate.
>
>Like I said, about 35 miles. (57 km * .62 = 35 mi)
>
>Now what was your comment about 50-80 miles?
That was in the part you snipped.
>No matter how much
>power and what kind of antenna you have, CMDA in the US won't work
>past 35 miles because the phones won't look for the signal.
The phones aren't the issue. Nortel's CDMA "Boomer" Cell works with standard
CDMA handsets, and is field-proven.
<http://www.nortelnetworks.com/corporate/news/newsreleases/1999c/8_5_9999287_Boomer.html>
August 5, 1999
Nortel Networks Extended Range CDMA "Boomer" Cell Ready for Prime Time
Telstra Will Deploy First to Help Meet Australia's Unique Rural Coverage Needs
DALLAS - Nortel Networks* [NYSE/TSE: NT] announced commercial availability of
the industry's longest-range 800 MHz cdmaOne* base station - the Nortel
Networks CDMA Rural Cell.
Designed to improve the economics of rural digital cellular service, the
Nortel Networks CDMA Rural Cell can provide a coverage radius up to 180
kilometers under suitable conditions, more than 10 times the range of a
typical CDMA base station.
Nicknamed "Boomer" Cell, this pioneering technology was first demonstrated in
March at Nortel Networks' Wireless Solutions lab in Ottawa, Ontario. RECENT
FIELD TRIALS WITH TELSTRA IN AUSTRALIA HAVE ACHIEVED COVERAGE IN EXCESS OF 120
KILOMETERS ON LAND AND 130 KILOMETERS FOR MARINE SERVICE UNDER TYPICAL
CONDITIONS, USING STANDARD CDMA HANDSETS AND CAR KITS. [emphasis added]
[MORE]
That was *six* years ago. Nortel's CDMA "Boomer" Cell is also deployed in
China. I understand that similar base station modifications are now available
from other equipment suppliers.
--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>
- 07-31-2005, 07:42 PM #73John NavasGuest
Re: Move to keep Analog Cell Phones
[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
In <[email protected]> on Mon, 01 Aug 2005 13:00:19
+1200, Mutlley <[email protected]> wrote:
>John Navas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>><http://www.abc.net.au/http/sfist/cdma.htm>:
>That's rather an old link John. 1999. Though I believe that CDMA in
>Oz has a range of about 75Km
Much more than that. From that same time period:
<http://www.nortelnetworks.com/corporate/news/newsreleases/1999c/8_5_9999287_Boomer.html>
August 5, 1999
Nortel Networks Extended Range CDMA "Boomer" Cell Ready for Prime Time
Telstra Will Deploy First to Help Meet Australia's Unique Rural Coverage Needs
DALLAS - Nortel Networks* [NYSE/TSE: NT] announced commercial availability of
the industry's longest-range 800 MHz cdmaOne* base station - the Nortel
Networks CDMA Rural Cell.
Designed to improve the economics of rural digital cellular service, the
Nortel Networks CDMA Rural Cell can provide a coverage radius up to 180
kilometers under suitable conditions, more than 10 times the range of a
typical CDMA base station.
Nicknamed "Boomer" Cell, this pioneering technology was first demonstrated in
March at Nortel Networks' Wireless Solutions lab in Ottawa, Ontario. RECENT
FIELD TRIALS WITH TELSTRA IN AUSTRALIA HAVE ACHIEVED COVERAGE IN EXCESS OF 120
KILOMETERS ON LAND AND 130 KILOMETERS FOR MARINE SERVICE UNDER TYPICAL
CONDITIONS, USING STANDARD CDMA HANDSETS AND CAR KITS. [emphasis added]
[MORE]
--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>
- 07-31-2005, 07:46 PM #74John NavasGuest
Re: range, was: Move to keep Analog Cell Phones
[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
In <[email protected]> on Sun, 31 Jul 2005 19:49:00 -0400,
Larry <[email protected]> wrote:
>John Navas <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:b37He.6627$p%[email protected]:
>
>> The critical issue there is height above the water. Otherwise the
>> signal would be blocked by the curvature of the earth. It's why
>> lighthouses need to be tall.
>
>Mast is 55' up. Sailboat.
>
>NO boat should go offshore without a registered 406 Mhz GPS-enabled
>EPIRB....we don't. Accuracy of the fix is 1 meter...
Depends on how far you go offshore. For most boaters, 406 Mhz GPS-enabled
EPIRB is expensive overkill. We only have one because we do major races that
take us so far offshore that we're out of the range of VHF and cellular. Even
so, we turn first to satphone and/or SSB. EPIRB is only a last resort in a
serious emergency.
>If you're interested in marine technology, ...
Thanks, but I'm quite familiar with marine technology.
--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>
- 07-31-2005, 07:47 PM #75John NavasGuest
Re: range, was: Move to keep Analog Cell Phones
[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
In <[email protected]> on Mon, 01 Aug 2005 01:09:48
GMT, Bob Scheurle <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 20:34:53 GMT, John Navas <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>>
>>>>> I believe the maximum range for CDMA is about 35 miles.
>>>>
>>>>CDMA's range is limited only by the signal strength between the phone and
>>>>the closest tower. Some users have reported ranges over 50 miles.
>>>
>>>No, it's not that simple. There are issues relating to the chip timing.
>>>I can't even begin to explain it, but see
>>>http://www.howcdmaworks.com/intro/132v3.pdf pages 95-97. I believe the
>>>table on page 96 goes up to the maximum distance for the CDMA system
>>>currently used, 34.3 miles (55.2 km).
>>
>>Telstra Will Deploy First to Help Meet Australia's Unique Rural Coverage Needs
>
>But we're talking about the United States.
I see nothing about the USA is these sweeping statements about CDMA.
Regardless, I understand that these "super" cells are also being deployed in
the USA.
--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>
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