N80 discontinued. Being recalled?? Contract options

I, like many others have the N80 on Orange.

Nokia have released the v4 fix, yet Orange won't approve their version
- leaving all N80 users with buggy phones.

Nokia won't allow NSC's to flash with generic v4, as it voids my Orange
warranty - even though Orange say the warranty is with Nokia *rolls
eyes*

Now to add insult to injury, the N80 has been pulled by nearly every UK
network.

So, this screams of a major fault and there are loads of forums with
guru's posting that the N80 is, or will be recalled.

Just a few:
http://www.expansys.com/forumthread....499&thread=350
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/forum...ad.php?t=51560
http://forum.simalert.com/showthread...ghlight=orange


So question is what are the options for N80 owners? Can we demand the
network gives us another phone under our contract with them, or simply
put up with a handset which doesn't work, and the selling network admit
doesn't work (hence discontinuing it). Nokia have the fix, so as far
as they are concerned they've done everything they have to, it's now
the networks prob for not allowing Nokia to distribute branded versions
to end users via NSC's or the Nokia Software updater.

Surely *something* in the Orange contract means I/we can terminate our
contracts, and end our association with a network that doesn't give two
hoots about supporting or looking after their customers (went down hill
since Vodaphone and France Telecom got their hands on Orange, and
ruined a perfectly good company in my view).

I've emailed Orange cust services, simply an auto response. Called,
they simply want to send another faulty handset (haven't they grasped
the fact its FIRMWARE yet??????). Nokia say it's Oranges problem to
sort as it's their variant, Orange say Nokia as they built the thing.

Surely we have some comeback? Must be a legal obligation for a network
operator (three, O2, Vodaphone, T-Mobile, Orange etc) or Nokia to do
SOMETHING!!!!!

---

› See More: N80 discontinued. Being recalled?? Contract options

I'm not by any means a leagl-guru, but surely there is the Sales of
Goods Act whereby it must be fit for its purpose?
I returned a SE M600i after 14 days (and quoted SoG Act) because I could
not see the screen in daylight and there was no way I could accept/end a
call without touching the screen (no hard buttons)...because I couldn't
see it....
Somehow they allowed the return! (Phew!)
Would the SoG Act apply here? Surely the N80 should do what it is meant
to without crashing etc. and work decently within limits...? What do
others think?

[email protected] wrote:
> I, like many others have the N80 on Orange.
>
> Nokia have released the v4 fix, yet Orange won't approve their version
> - leaving all N80 users with buggy phones.
>

So what bugs are you actually seeing? Or are people just seeing a list of
bug fixes by Nokia and wanting to upgrade, even though it may not directly
affect them?

I can't say I've had any problems with my N80 on Orange, I'm happy with it.

"©®" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm not by any means a leagl-guru, but surely there is the Sales of Goods
> Act whereby it must be fit for its purpose?
> I returned a SE M600i after 14 days (and quoted SoG Act) because I could
> not see the screen in daylight and there was no way I could accept/end a
> call without touching the screen (no hard buttons)...because I couldn't
> see it....
> Somehow they allowed the return! (Phew!)
> Would the SoG Act apply here? Surely the N80 should do what it is meant
> to without crashing etc. and work decently within limits...? What do
> others think?

Yep, goods must be fit for purpose at the point they were sold to you - and
thanks to new EU regulations, the onus is on the retailer to prove this for
the first six months, which means you don't need to supply evidence other
than a list of faults.

Benedict.

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 23:30:55 GMT, "Benedict Addis" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>"©®" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> I'm not by any means a leagl-guru, but surely there is the Sales of Goods
>> Act whereby it must be fit for its purpose?
>> I returned a SE M600i after 14 days (and quoted SoG Act) because I could
>> not see the screen in daylight and there was no way I could accept/end a
>> call without touching the screen (no hard buttons)...because I couldn't
>> see it....
>> Somehow they allowed the return! (Phew!)
>> Would the SoG Act apply here? Surely the N80 should do what it is meant
>> to without crashing etc. and work decently within limits...? What do
>> others think?
>
>Yep, goods must be fit for purpose at the point they were sold to you - and
>thanks to new EU regulations, the onus is on the retailer to prove this for
>the first six months, which means you don't need to supply evidence other
>than a list of faults.
>

But all you are *entitled* to is repair or replacement, and he said
Orange are offering a replacement.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Can you repeat the part after "Listen very carefully"?
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

MA formulated on Thursday :
> [email protected] wrote:
>> I, like many others have the N80 on Orange.
>>
>> Nokia have released the v4 fix, yet Orange won't approve their version
>> - leaving all N80 users with buggy phones.
>>
>
> So what bugs are you actually seeing? Or are people just seeing a list of bug
> fixes by Nokia and wanting to upgrade, even though it may not directly affect
> them?
>
> I can't say I've had any problems with my N80 on Orange, I'm happy with it.

I have had no problems with my N80 either, not on Orange, but O2.

"Alex Heney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> But all you are *entitled* to is repair or replacement, and he said
> Orange are offering a replacement.

I think you have the right to a refund if you want.

Fred.

"Fred Finisterre" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Alex Heney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> But all you are *entitled* to is repair or replacement, and he said
>> Orange are offering a replacement.
>
> I think you have the right to a refund if you want.
>

Why? The right of rejection has long passed.

Orange has offered a replacement, that is all they are obliged to do.

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 08:39:08 +0100, "Fred Finisterre"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"Alex Heney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> But all you are *entitled* to is repair or replacement, and he said
>> Orange are offering a replacement.
>
>I think you have the right to a refund if you want.
>

You think wrong.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Trust me, I'm a lawyer..
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

Alex Heney wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 23:30:55 GMT, "Benedict Addis" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> "©®" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> I'm not by any means a leagl-guru, but surely there is the Sales of Goods
>>> Act whereby it must be fit for its purpose?
>>> I returned a SE M600i after 14 days (and quoted SoG Act) because I could
>>> not see the screen in daylight and there was no way I could accept/end a
>>> call without touching the screen (no hard buttons)...because I couldn't
>>> see it....
>>> Somehow they allowed the return! (Phew!)
>>> Would the SoG Act apply here? Surely the N80 should do what it is meant
>>> to without crashing etc. and work decently within limits...? What do
>>> others think?
>> Yep, goods must be fit for purpose at the point they were sold to you - and
>> thanks to new EU regulations, the onus is on the retailer to prove this for
>> the first six months, which means you don't need to supply evidence other
>> than a list of faults.
>>
>
> But all you are *entitled* to is repair or replacement, and he said
> Orange are offering a replacement.

But if they replace it for another N80 they would be supplying goods
that are known to be defective, or not fit for the purpose and that's
illegal.

--
regards, James Luff Gamertag: Lufferov
remove 'nospam' to e-mail
"There are 10 types of people in the world:
Those that understand binary, and those that don't."

[email protected] declared for all the world to hear...
> So question is what are the options for N80 owners? Can we demand the
> network gives us another phone under our contract with them

Your contract is for the supply of airtime. The phone is explicitly
separate.

Find yourself another service centre who will flash it with generic.
There are plenty about. Or sell the phone on eBay while you still can.

> Surely *something* in the Orange contract means I/we can terminate our
> contracts

Have you USIM cards stopped working? You don't have grounds to cancel
unfortunately. The terms can be found at www.orange.co.uk/terms

> Surely we have some comeback? Must be a legal obligation for a network
> operator (three, O2, Vodaphone, T-Mobile, Orange etc) or Nokia to do
> SOMETHING!!!!!

You could ask Orange for a DMR (different model replacement), you can
ask for this once you've had 3 or faulty ones of the same model.
--
Regards
Jon

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:56:22 +0100, James Luff
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Alex Heney wrote:
>> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 23:30:55 GMT, "Benedict Addis" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "©®" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> I'm not by any means a leagl-guru, but surely there is the Sales of Goods
>>>> Act whereby it must be fit for its purpose?
>>>> I returned a SE M600i after 14 days (and quoted SoG Act) because I could
>>>> not see the screen in daylight and there was no way I could accept/end a
>>>> call without touching the screen (no hard buttons)...because I couldn't
>>>> see it....
>>>> Somehow they allowed the return! (Phew!)
>>>> Would the SoG Act apply here? Surely the N80 should do what it is meant
>>>> to without crashing etc. and work decently within limits...? What do
>>>> others think?
>>> Yep, goods must be fit for purpose at the point they were sold to you - and
>>> thanks to new EU regulations, the onus is on the retailer to prove this for
>>> the first six months, which means you don't need to supply evidence other
>>> than a list of faults.
>>>
>>
>> But all you are *entitled* to is repair or replacement, and he said
>> Orange are offering a replacement.
>
>But if they replace it for another N80 they would be supplying goods
>that are known to be defective, or not fit for the purpose and that's
>illegal.

In what way is that illegal?

Anyhow, you can insist on a repair, rather than a replacement. And it
is the responsibility of the *supplier*. They can say "it is Nokia's
fault" as much as they like, but it is up to *them* to deal with it,
including (if necessary) getting Nokia to give them the fix.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

Alex Heney wrote:
>>>
>>> But all you are *entitled* to is repair or replacement, and he said
>>> Orange are offering a replacement.
>> But if they replace it for another N80 they would be supplying goods
>> that are known to be defective, or not fit for the purpose and that's
>> illegal.
>
> In what way is that illegal?

The sale of goods act states that items must "conform to contract" which
means they must be as described, fit for *all* the purposes for which
the goods are supplied and of satisfactory quality. If they supply goods
they know to have a problem they are in breach of the sale of goods act
and therefore breaking the law.

--
regards, James Luff Gamertag: Lufferov
remove 'nospam' to e-mail
"There are 10 types of people in the world:
Those that understand binary, and those that don't."

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:25:07 +0100, James Luff
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Alex Heney wrote:
>>>>
>>>> But all you are *entitled* to is repair or replacement, and he said
>>>> Orange are offering a replacement.
>>> But if they replace it for another N80 they would be supplying goods
>>> that are known to be defective, or not fit for the purpose and that's
>>> illegal.
>>
>> In what way is that illegal?
>
>The sale of goods act states that items must "conform to contract" which
>means they must be as described, fit for *all* the purposes for which
>the goods are supplied and of satisfactory quality. If they supply goods
>they know to have a problem they are in breach of the sale of goods act
>and therefore breaking the law.

First, technically it is unlawful, rather than illegal. But that is a
technicality.

Second, SOGA does not actually say that. It gives the customer
remedies if the items do not conform to contract, but it doesn't
actually say it is unlawful to supply items which do not, even if
known that they do not.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Never test for an error you don't know how to handle.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

MA wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > I, like many others have the N80 on Orange.
> >
> > Nokia have released the v4 fix, yet Orange won't approve their version
> > - leaving all N80 users with buggy phones.
> >
>
> So what bugs are you actually seeing? Or are people just seeing a list of
> bug fixes by Nokia and wanting to upgrade, even though it may not directly
> affect them?
>
> I can't say I've had any problems with my N80 on Orange, I'm happy with it.

Yep, I can add my name to the list of happy Nokia N80 owners on Orange.
Apart from the occasional freeze up and reboot I have had no real
problems with the phone.